Zlatan Ibrahimovic

[FranklyVulgar]

Or maybe, just maybe. He's not as good as them? Ever considered that. Just a little bit of a possibility?

Sure he may not be as good as them, but you say that he is nowhere near them which isn't true. He has won the league at every club he has gone too, and has scored in big-games, the only thing that people like you rate him is on goals in the CL KO stage.[/QUOTE]

A time in which Italian teams have struggled in europe. Only Milan, (doing a fecking liverpool no less yet you lot wank over Milan doing well in europe and scald liverpool for it) with shevchenko, crespo, kaka, seedorf a prime gattuso and pirlo, nesta, maldini.... a team brimming with experienced european players has done well in europe.

Yet it's all on Zlatans shoulders, they are broad but not that broad. Against United he was the only threat, donkeys like Muntari and Adriano were doing their best impression of football on iceskates. The only players coming out with any credibility in those two games were Cesar, Santon, Cambiasso, Zanetti and Ibrahimovic.

No doubt you lot will tell me Ibra was abysmal in the games and offered nothing, but then i would expect no less.

 

[Sam]

Like I said in the post above, there was a time when Ronaldo was considered a big game bottler too. It didn't take him that many CL KO goals to prove that wrong. Zlatan has scored CL goals just not in the KO stages.
Sure he may not be as good as them, but you say that he is nowhere near them which isn't true. He has won the league at every club he has gone too, and has scored in big-games, the only thing that people like you rate him is on goals in the CL KO stage.

Ronaldo is 24 and doesnt bottle it. Zlatan is 27 and is still bottleing it.

And its not just about CL goals, its just that proves the point very well.

 

[vuc]

I fecked the quoting up there, that quote was not me but Sam.

 

[vuc]

Ronaldo is 24 and doesnt bottle it. Zlatan is 27 and is still bottleing it.

And its not just about CL goals, its just that proves the point very well.

Explain what else its about then..

 

[FranklyVulgar]

I don't know whether this is a WUM? Surely it has to be?

You do realise that Messi isn't 27 years old, hasnt been playing in the CL for 6 years, and also isnt a bloody striker.

He is infact just 22 years old, has probably played at most 2 CL's as a regular starter, and yet he's already scored more then Zlatan, has already won it twice, and is hailded as arguably the best player in the world. Thats why the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are on a different level, no a different planet from the likes of Zlatan.

You do realize that Zlatans teams have been put out at every last 16, maybe a quarter final once. Quite hard to score when you get knocked out in the first game. It's not like he's been going to finals and having nothing, no goals or impact...


Also i'm sure he scored for Ajax back in the day in the knockout stages, aged about 21 or something. but ignore that...

No i know nothing about Messi... WHat i do know is the very same accusations, the very same comments were used to discredit him. The "never scored against English" was a personal favourite. That lasted long...

The "never scored in the CL last 16" is an abysmal way to judge a player, abysmal! and it is the only justification you lot have for not holding Zlatan in high regard, it's pathetic. Utterly pathetic.

 

[kouroux]

Come FV, you can't say he's won the league with Juve cause that's a lie

 

[Sam]

Explain what else its about then..

Ability.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

Come FV, you can't say he's won the league with Juve cause that's a lie

Yes, a team managed by Capello who were beaten by Liverpool. Capello has a terrible terrible record against English sides in europe. He could never get to grips with it.

 

[vuc]

Ability.

What you don't think he has the ability to match Ronaldo & Messi...

 

[FranklyVulgar]

Ronaldo is 24 and doesnt bottle it. Zlatan is 27 and is still bottleing it.

And its not just about CL goals, its just that proves the point very well.

Sorry but if not for the superior side and a certain wierd eyed cry baby your boy would be laballed a massive bottler.

A CL final penalty miss that should have cost you the tie, i cant imagine....

The semi final penalty miss which could have cost you the tie...

Luckily Manchester United are a great team who dont rely on one player to do it all for them, otherwise the non bottling ROnaldo would probably have a reputation as a big game bottler.

You cant miss a penalty in the semi, then the final.... i mean surely

 

[vuc]

FV, can you find out if he scored a goal for Ajax in the KO.

 

[AttackingFlair]

Was reading some posts on a Barca forum, they said the Inter fans think they've got the raw end of the deal.

 

[Sam]

You do realize that Zlatans teams have been put out at every last 16, maybe a quarter final once. Quite hard to score when you get knocked out in the first game. It's not like he's been going to finals and having nothing, no goals or impact...

6 years of going out in the last 16 is still 12 games. Thats 1080 minutes of football for Zlatan to try and bag himself a goal, and as of yet, he still hasnt managed to. No doubt you'll blame everyone else around him, the players, the staff, the kitman, the tea lady, rather then Zlatan himself for this complete and utter failure.

The "never scored in the CL last 16" is an abysmal way to judge a player, abysmal! and it is the only justification you lot have for not holding Zlatan in high regard, it's pathetic. Utterly pathetic.

What is pathetic, is his performances. He is clearly not on the same level as the Ronaldo's and Messi's of this world. And only a Zlatan fan boy would argue that he is. And unfortunatly that is what you are. Which is a little bit embarrasing.

 

[Sam]

What you don't think he has the ability to match Ronaldo & Messi...

If he does, he's doing an incredible job of hiding it.

 

[Brwned]

Same level? absolutely, they are both world class players.

Ronaldo and Messi are on another level to any other player in Europe and have been for the past few years.

Ibrahimovic is on the level below, along with Eto'o.

You value flair over effectiveness just a tad too much.

 

[kietotheworld]

I'm noticing a pattern with regards to Ibrahimovic, the people who watch him regularly think he's world class, and the people who watch him once or twice a season think he's shit and a bottler.

 

[gaffs]

I'm noticing a pattern with regards to Ibrahimovic, the people who watch him regularly think he's world class, and the people who watch him once or twice a season think he's shit and a bottler.

The people who have watched anyone just once or twice should be ignored.

 

[Brwned]

I'm noticing a pattern with regards to Ibrahimovic, the people who watch him regularly think he's world class, and the people who watch him once or twice a season think he's shit and a bottler.

Or rather the people that place too much emphasis on technique think he's world class.

 

[Sam]

I'm noticing a pattern with regards to Ibrahimovic, the people who watch him regularly think he's world class, and the people who watch him once or twice a season think he's shit and a bottler.

I don't think anyone thinks he's shit.

He's clearly not shit. He's got wonderful technical ability. He just isnt in the same bracket as the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, he isnt even close. And its very annoying when the fan boys would like to have us believe that he is.

 

[kouroux]

I'm noticing a pattern with regards to Ibrahimovic, the people who watch him regularly think he's world class, and the people who watch him once or twice a season think he's shit and a bottler.

Nope, I've practically watched all his matches in the past 2 seasons.I admit it he's one of the most impressive players to watch but I cannot put him in the same category of the likes of Messi, Ronaldo for instance.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

I said he was in the same bracket as he is a world class talent of massive value to any team he has been in. A key player in any team in the world. I didnt say he was better i didnt say he was the best.

I do value flair very highly, but Zlatan is effective, he is creative and a goal threat.

He is in a lose lose situation with caftards. He can score now in the later stages and it'll be "yeah who couldnt score for barca"... He could have a great season, he could potentially win the ballon d'Or and it'd be barca...

He was excellent in the CL the season before, bagging 5 goals in 7 and only being put out due to the most incompetant ref i've ever witnessed in europe.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

Or rather the people that place too much emphasis on technique think he's world class.

So you dont think he's world class?

A player who would walk into any starting line up in the world? A player who is walking into the best club team in the world right now and you wouldnt say he is "world class"?

He is world class, that's my point. not THAT many players are and as a bracket of world class players he is in it with Messi and Ronaldo and a few others.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

I don't think anyone thinks he's shit.

He's clearly not shit. He's got wonderful technical ability. He just isnt in the same bracket as the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, he isnt even close. And its very annoying when the fan boys would like to have us believe that he is.

he is close, this season he was one of the best, he was better than Ronaldo by quite a bit, infact Ronaldo wasnt even close to zlatan last season.

 

[gaffs]

Ronaldo and Messi are on another level to any other player in Europe and have been for the past few years.

Ibrahimovic is on the level below, along with Eto'o.

You value flair over effectiveness just a tad too much.

For me, Zlatan is better than Eto'o.

Zlatan is on that second level along with Torres, Xavi, Iniesta and Kaka.

Eto'o probably ranks along side Drogba and Rooney.

 

[Sam]

A player who would walk into any starting line up in the world? A player who is walking into the best club team in the world right now and you wouldnt say he is "world class"?

he is close, this season he was one of the best, he was better than Ronaldo by quite a bit, infact Ronaldo wasnt even close to zlatan last season.

I give up. I actually give up. This is ridiculous.

 

[kouroux]

So you dont think he's world class?

A player who would walk into any starting line up in the world? A player who is walking into the best club team in the world right now and you wouldnt say he is "world class"?

He is world class, that's my point. not THAT many players are and as a bracket of world class players he is in it with Messi and Ronaldo and a few others.

The FIFA polls that you love so much prove otherwise.

 

[Brwned]

I said he was in the same bracket as he is a world class talent of massive value to any team he has been in. A key player in any team in the world. I didnt say he was better i didnt say he was the best.

I do value flair very highly, but Zlatan is effective, he is creative and a goal threat.

He is in a lose lose situation with caftards. He can score now in the later stages and it'll be "yeah who couldnt score for barca"... He could have a great season, he could potentially win the ballon d'Or and it'd be barca...

He was excellent in the CL the season before, bagging 5 goals in 7 and only being put out due to the most incompetant ref i've ever witnessed in europe.

If he has a great season with Barca I'm sure plenty of people will admit to being proven wrong, they have to. Not everyone's Cal? here. Sam, kouroux, Brad etc. have all admitted to being wrong in the past and are much more logical than Cal?

It's absolute madness to have Ibrahimovic on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo though.

The people who have watched anyone just once or twice should be ignored.

Seems a bit hypocritical seeing as you started a thread about that guy Cissokho despite only watching him twice.

 

[Boss]

Sorry but if not for the superior side and a certain wierd eyed cry baby your boy would be laballed a massive bottler.

A CL final penalty miss that should have cost you the tie, i cant imagine....

The semi final penalty miss which could have cost you the tie...

Luckily Manchester United are a great team who dont rely on one player to do it all for them, otherwise the non bottling ROnaldo would probably have a reputation as a big game bottler.

You cant miss a penalty in the semi, then the final.... i mean surely

Didn't Ronaldo also get the only goal for us in the Champions League Final against Chelsea even though he missed the penalty? By the way he was also voted man of the match in that Final. Also didn't Maradona himself miss a penalty in the World Cup 1990, it is a lottery, it means feck all.

In the knock out stages he has scored against Ac Milan, Inter Milan,Lyon, Roma three times, Arsenal twice, Porto (only English team to win there) despite being 24. This is why he does not have the dangerous tag. Ok now tell me the big teams Zlatan has scored against in the knock out, GO....

 

[vuc]

If he does, he's doing an incredible job of hiding it.

But he doesn't, your doing an incredible job of not seeing his ability. When we talk of ability lets not talk about goals in the CL for the moment. Look at Zlatans technique, touch, power, football brain, dribbling etc.. Its unbelievable, did you not see in the match against United what kind of touch he has from a 70 yard goal kick on to the chest. Just one example of many.

 

[Brwned]

So you dont think he's world class?

A player who would walk into any starting line up in the world? A player who is walking into the best club team in the world right now and you wouldnt say he is "world class"?

He is world class, that's my point. not THAT many players are and as a bracket of world class players he is in it with Messi and Ronaldo and a few others.

Shouldn't have said world class, I do think he's world class.

Should've rephrased it to 'think he's on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo'.

I think Kaka's world class, but I don't think he's on the same level as them two. There are different levels of world class.

For me, Zlatan is better than Eto'o.

Zlatan is on that second level along with Torres, Xavi, Iniesta and Kaka.

Eto'o probably ranks along side Drogba and Rooney.

I think Zlatan's a better player than Eto'o too, not by a lot.

I'd have Eto'o on that second level though, definitely a level above both Drogba and Rooney.

 

[gaffs]

Seems a bit hypocritical seeing as you started a thread about that guy Cissokho despite only watching him twice.

Touche.

But if you look back, i did say i had only seen him a couple of times and was rating him only on that basis.

I certanly wouldnt slag a player off after seeing him only twice.

BTW - hes off to Lyon.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

The FIFA polls that you love so much prove otherwise.

i dont give a flying feck about fifa polls.... i use them when argueing other cases against other retards (cal?) who wont accept anything if it isnt wrapped in a fifa red ribbon.

The same idiots who ripped into them when Kaka won it because Ronaldo should have then worship them when Ronaldo did win it... yeah i care much for Fifa polls and awards and all that piss.

 

[kouroux]

i dont give a flying feck about fifa polls.... i use them when argueing other cases against other retards (cal?) who wont accept anything if it isnt wrapped in a fifa red ribbon.

The same idiots who ripped into them when Kaka won it because Ronaldo should have then worship them when Ronaldo did win it... yeah i care much for Fifa polls and awards and all that piss.

I see.
However how could you put Zlatan at the same level of Messi, I mean isn't the latter the player who will mark his generation as one of the best ever

 

[Sam]

But he doesn't, your doing an incredible job of not seeing his ability. When we talk of ability lets not talk about goals in the CL for the moment. Look at Zlatans technique, touch, power, football brain, dribbling etc.. Its unbelievable, did you not see in the match against United what kind of touch he has from a 70 yard goal kick on to the chest. Just one example of many.

Brwned's got this one spot on...

Or rather the people that place too much emphasis on technique

You value flair over effectiveness just a tad too much.

 

[Brwned]

Touche.

But if you look back, i did say i had only seen him a couple of times and was rating him only on that basis.

I certanly wouldnt slag a player off after seeing him only twice.

BTW - hes off to Lyon.

Oh no I know, was just making the point. He did look quite a good player then and Lyon obviously thought so too, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of him now he's in a more accessible(and better) league.

And I've never really understood the necessity to slag off Zlatan despite seeing him about twice a season, which I'd say is true of the vast majority on here.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

If he has a great season with Barca I'm sure plenty of people will admit to being proven wrong, they have to. Not everyone's Cal? here. Sam, kouroux, Brad etc. have all admitted to being wrong in the past and are much more logical than Cal?

It's absolute madness to have Ibrahimovic on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo though.



Seems a bit hypocritical seeing as you started a thread about that guy Cissokho despite only watching him twice.

I'm an idiot, i've never claimed otherwise. I can't help myself.

You're a good poster, you dont let your emotions cloud your posts like i do. I have a few players on the same bracket, id say Messi is out on his own but that is just my opinion. I'd say Ronaldo is in the same bracket as Kaka and Ibrahimovic.

Shouldn't have said world class, I do think he's world class.

Should've rephrased it to 'think he's on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo'.

I think Kaka's world class, but I don't think he's on the same level as them two. There are different levels of world class.



I think Zlatan's a better player than Eto'o too, not by a lot.

I'd have Eto'o on that second level though, definitely a level above both Drogba and Rooney.

Well at least you can see that he is better than Eto'o which is more than quite a few here. I get the impression from posters that it is fashionable to dislike Ibra. I also cant stand stupid stats about latter stages etc... I judge a player on what i see him do week in week out not in the one game a season when a UK audience tunes in and decides to write newspaper articles and listen to Harry Redknapp or martin O'Niell spew shite.

 

[lesclaypool]

Messi and Ronaldo are the two best players in the world ... After that I think you'd have to look at Kaka, Iniesta and a host of other players and Zlatan could be in that bracket (infact he could be in the top bracket but he has to prove it at Barca to be considered that good, he hasn't proved it in the massive European games even though he's got the ability to do so). I don't know what evidence Frankly has seen to suggest that Zlatan can be considered in the same bracket as Ronaldo and Messi... He seems to always be the best player in the league (or be close to it) but doesn't seem to do much in European competition... Now I'll take on board the notion that sometimes he doesn't have the best players around him, such as the calibre of player Messi and Ronaldo have/had when they've excelled in Europe but he has still provided disappointing performances. I'd say he was quite threatening against United at OT last season (without quite making me shit scared everytime he got the ball) but was a complete no show in the San Siro... Compare that to Messi two seasons back in the CL semis... Most people would tell you that not only was Messi Barca's most threatening player but he really forced the issue and was pretty close to making things happen despite the other underperforming players in the line up (especially compared to what they did last season). That is the kind of thing people will look for Zlatan to do to be more highly rated... Now at Barca he'll be going to a club with players who are on his level/better than him and he wont have as many excuses as he has been afforded in the past.

I think he's a genius and really should do more in Europe for the ability he has. Some of the stuff he comes up with in Serie A, the early stages of the CL and some of the stuff he's done for Sweden really are outstanding. Now he's got the right club to perform all his ability and I hope he does well but no shows in the CL final hopefully against us.

Also Kaka has already shown previously that he's got the ability to be in the top bracket with Messi and Ronaldo... He was the key player in Milan's last CL win... Had Zlatan done something like that I don't think there would be any doubt but he hasn't.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

GOod post lescaypool.

For the record i didnt say it was a bracket of Messi, Ronaldo, Zlatan. I was putting down a world class players bracket.

The argument stemmed from Real paying 80million for Ronaldo and 60million for Kaka. I said Zlatan is worth it if they are. That is all.

 

[KingEric7]

I give up. I actually give up. This is ridiculous.

Don't see an awful lot wrong with that comment - Ibrahimovic was significantly better than Ronaldo last year.

In fact, I'm not sure that's even up for debate.

 

[MadDogg]

Ronaldo and Messi are out on their own as the best players in the world. Then behind them you've got a small bunch of players fighting it out to be the best of the rest, including Zlatan, Xavi, Iniesta, Kaka, Torres, Eto'o and Rio. Out of that lot, Kaka is probably the most questionable after having two fairly average seasons. So if Kaka is 'worth' 56m, then Zlatan is 'worth' about the same. Eto'o might be as well, except he only had one season left on his contract and Barca were desperate to get rid of him.