Nah he's 29.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
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Nah he's 29.
Really? His consistent big match performances while in Italy don't count?
Granted. The man has a deserved reputation. But looking at this season he hasn't done too bad at all. If you look at the three most important matches he's played in this year - Madrid, Arsenal (a) and Inter tonight - he's got three goals. How he fares in the home leg and in the final league fixtures could make or break his reputation as to performing when it counts.
Of course they do. But Chief, you must appreciate that you are going to get cained as a big game player if you have only done it in domestic competition. There are a lot of fans in England and Spain who will be sitting there wondering what all the fuss is about, because they haven't regularly watched Serie A. I'm also inclined to argue that he was at his peak in Italy during a period when the league was massively weakened by Calciopoli.
Really, you have to gauge what he has achieved against the fee that he went to Barca for. Then factor in what he has done since arriving in Spain. I don't think it was worth the astronomical amount that he cost.
Am I the only one who finds Feed Me's attitude in here ironic, considering his attitude to Berba?
He should have plundered an absolute feck load of goals playing in La Liga. His overall total and performance level is one of a player who hasn't scaled the heights considering his transfer amount.
He has consistently failed to deliver in Europe and it's not as though he's only 22/23/24 years old.
No not really. I think it aswell, it's like he's indirectly slaughtering Berba with every post.
I'm always massively irritated when people don't quote me fairly on the Berbatov issue.
Go and find some of my posts on Berbatov mate, and then tell me it's ironic. I try to defend him because he takes dogs abuse, but I have never ducked the fact that the man has underwhelmed me since arriving. I hold out in hope that he can turn it around.
Not sure, but you can probably find a thread about it somewhere around here if you have a look
Seriously though, I don't think the situations are all that dissimilar. People seem to love to write players off as 'shite' for one reason or another, same goes for performances, and it doesn't really tell the whole story. We didn't just coincidentally have a lot of players who "didn't turn up" in the CL final last season, the real truth is that we were playing against a very good side, half of whose job was to keep us from being effective in our game, and they did that very well.
Not all strikers are the same, they all have their own different strengths and weaknesses. You can't just drop Ibrahimovich into the Barca team and expect him to be as effective as Eto'o just because they're both quality strikers, there are pretty big differences in their strengths and weaknesses.
Again. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon, go and have a look at my posts on Berbatov. If you actually give me a fair trial then you'll see that I'm actually very balanced.
I know I don't fit in because I decline to brand him ********* or get on his back at every given opportunity, but there we go...
I think their situations are near identical.
Two fabulously gifted players who arguably don't dovetail brilliantly with the teams they are in.
There is no doubting that both, considering their respective price tags, have underwhelmed.
Feed me's niceness to Berba can be justified in that he's just supporting a player who at this moment in time is our very own and could still prove vital in the title race.
Don't blame him.
Don't blame him.
I'm no nicer to Berbatov than I am to any United player. The vitriol and invective towards the fella has been absurd in all honesty. A lot of fans have made him a figure of hate and blame.
All I have done is refuse to engage in all that silliness and refused to illogically blame him when he has actually done nothing wrong.
However, never have I ever shirked from constructively criticising him when he has been poor - which has been quite frequent. When speaking of Berbatov, I think I have used the word "underwhelming" every single time.
How this all translates to me being a fanboi of sorts, God knows...
Berbatov has Cantona’s knack of being the man amid a stampede towards the door who stops to notice a side exit that nobody else has seen.
What's wrong with that?
I put that as my location about 2 years ago because I enjoy trawling through the press and picking out nice quotes, images, analogies and the like...
I just haven't bothered to change my location.
In any case, the statement isn't that far off the mark is it?
Let me get this straight, I am being criticised for very reasonably backing a Manchester United player?
What's wrong with that?
I put that as my location about 2 years ago because I enjoy trawling through the press and picking out nice quotes, images, analogies and the like...
I just haven't bothered to change my location.
In any case, the statement isn't that far off the mark is it?
Let me get this straight, I am being criticised for very reasonably backing a Manchester United player?
I'm just playing man, you are bit bias to Berba, just a bit FM!! but we all have our favesCan't disagree there, but at the same time it doesn't make either player shite. You play players to their strengths, or you don't get the best out of them, and I think that's what's happening in both cases.
For us with Berbatov, I think there are just one or two reasons why we're not able to truly play him to his strengths, but I don't think it would take a whole lot to sort that out. With Ibra and Barca their whole system doesn't suit him, they'd need to totally change their approach to the game to get the most out of him, and they're never going to do that.
Taking it to its extreme, it's like asking Messi to lead the line for you, and then play long high balls up to him to try and win headers. He's going to have a pretty rubbish game every time if that's how you use him, but it doesn't make him a shite player.
I'm no more biased towards Berbatov than any United player. I like to think that I support them all equally. I hate seeing United players getting that sort of treatment though and that is why I probably wade in more in these debates. I'll likely back someone like O'Shea just as vociferously when he gets it in the neck.
Sorry, but I just stand out because I'm one of the few that doesn't go OTT. Don't really do "faves".
I'm being tongue in cheek when I call Ibra "shit", but the sentiment still stands.
The only thing they have in common is that they've both got dark hair.
What's going on with Ibrahimovich? Literally every time I've seen him, he's been either shit, or at best anonymous. That's not a lot of times, but it's probably about 12.
But then there are some youtube videos of him scoring good goals.
Is he good, or is he shit?
But then there are some youtube videos of him scoring good goals.
Is he good, or is he shit?
Absolutely agree.
So... he's a bit shit in the role Barca play him in? I can probably go along with that for the most part.
He's just decent. He's just fecking decent. But for some reason, Barca got involved in a deal which makes him the second most expensive player ever. He's never done in on the biggest stages. He's just fecking decent. But for some reason, people who have this opinion are made to feel silly. I don't see the fuss. Never have, never will.
The man is a £70m footballer who is decent.
Just don't think he stretches teams as well as Eto'o did. I think he makes them a lot more predictable to play against. Of course, this is fine when Iniesta and Messi are slaloming and Xavi is taking the piss with his passing. But when they are unavailable/having an off day, you'd hope a player who cost so much would step up to the mark. He was awful tonight - can't remember a redeeming feature of his performance.
I'm personally one of those who just doesn't get it. Wouldn't particularly get excited if United were after him.
Can't disagree with a whole lot in your first paragraph, what you said about Eto'o is pretty much what I was angling at a few posts back.
I wouldn't be very excited if Ibra came to United either, I don't think he's a kind of player we need. But his record in Italy does tell you he can be a very dangerous player in the right circumstances. You can say it's because the league was weakened by the scandal, but teams up and down La Liga have been managing to keep him pretty quiet for the last few months. It's hard to seriously argue that the majority of teams in a weakened Serie A of a lower standard than even the lowest La Liga sides.
The difference, I feel, is far more to do with how he was used by his teams in either league. Now I can't say I watched him for Inter much, but I do know for sure that they didn't play like Barca do while he was there. I think if he was properly played to his strengths it's not unlikely that he could do very well in any of the top leagues in the world.
I wasn't surprised he came off today, I was more surprised that Abidal replaced him and Maxwell pushed up the wing, not sure that was such a good move.
I've always got the impression that Guardiola didn't really want Ibra and he was more of a Laporta choice.
I've always got the impression that Guardiola didn't really want Ibra and he was more of a Laporta choice.
Which are just classic weak arguements. When he first arrived in Italy Milan was still winng the Champions league. All this talk of the Serie A was weak when he was there is just ignorant rubbish. I just think its plain stupid to claim he hasn't shown up on the big occasion often enough. When he did it time and again in Italy. Especially now because for the first time in years he is in side strong enough to give him a platform to perform outside domestic competition. & its only yesterday when he was truly disappointing in a big game for Barca thus far.
But when he scored in a big game there is always an excuse as to why it some how doesn't count as doing it in a big game. It's the same way people constantly claim Totti is overated because he refused to ever leave his beloved Roma. Yet hold fellows like Shearer in high regard.
15 goals in the league, 4 in Europe and 1 in Copa del Rey plus 6 assists in the league to that. All while getting used to a new club and battling injury problems.
Indeed. Good points.
Anyone who doubts Totti just needs to have a look at his international exploits.. Euro 2000, world cup 2006.
Don't think Ibrahimovic bears comparison to Totti in terms of big match performances yet.
For people who say Berbatov is lazy, have a look at Ibrahimovic. I watched him quite a bit at Inter his last 2 seasons. And if he wasn't on top of his game, he wasn't interested. Kind of like last night.
Yeah but then he decides not to go through it.
So Ibra is taken off by Pep as a precausion and he's back to being shit again
I'm sorry but didn't he score two goals in his last CL game before this one?
He just isn't top striker IMO. Eto'o was playing out wide last night and still did 10 times what Ibra did. The latter just faffed around for 90 minutes waving his foot aimlessly at crosses. Eto'o fought for his team, played a couple of beautiful passes that set up and goals and generally was one of the many reasons his team won.
I've always felt he was the better player and consistently the best striker in the world for awhile. Ibra has never been that, and he's playing for a fine attacking team as the focal point whereas Eto'o plays as a wide attacker, which isn't his preferrence for a much more defensive side.
Really, if Ibra can't be one of the best strikers in the world for Barca, then he can never. Because there, he has an advantage over the others.
I've always felt he was the better player and consistently the best striker in the world for awhile. Ibra has never been that, and he's playing for a fine attacking team as the focal point whereas Eto'o plays as a wide attacker, which isn't his preferrence for a much more defensive side.
Really, if Ibra can't be one of the best strikers in the world for Barca, then he can never. Because there, he has an advantage over the others.
I've never rated Ibra as one of the top strikers in world football, and i doubt i ever will. A very talented player when he can be arsed, but that's the problem.
And how he was worth 40 odd million and Eto'o is beyond me. Sure he makes a great youtube video but will he fight when the going gets tough?
And how he was worth 40 odd million and Eto'o is beyond me. Sure he makes a great youtube video but will he fight when the going gets tough?
It's amazing that he isn't doing brilliantly at Barca. Any good striker with that service should do really really welll. I reckon Henry in his prime would have ripped teams to shreds every other week. There's a gulf between the two. Some see it, some don't and go on potential.
Proof that you probably didn't even watch the game to be fair.
Zlatan hasn't consistently been the best striker in the world. But he is a top striker none the less. He has been for Barca this year, and for Inter in the years before.
Wasn't it last season that Eto'o/Henry/Messi scored something ridiculous like 90 goals between them?
EDIT: Just checked Eto'o got 34, Henry 25 and Messi 37 in all competitions for Barca. That's 96 goals between them
A very weird exchange it was between Zlatan and Eto'o cause both were exceptionnal in their previous teams and right now they haven't achieved half of their previous season for different reasons.Eto'o is more willing to work and is more "flexible" as a player than Zlatan and the perfect example was last night's match.It was a typical hardworking and creative match from him, reminding everyone who he really is
It's true but Zlatan gives Barca a true target man, it's something different I guess which is what Pep wanted. I'm guessing he watched their match at the bridge last season and saw a million crosses not find a target he wanted a different option in the box.
I also think Zlatan generally helps control possesion, he's been no mug for Barca and he hadn't trained during the week before playing Espanyol so I think some people are being harsh on him, but he's on of those players, he has to do it in every big game or people will question him. I guess it comes with the territory or being touted as one of the best in the world.
I dont think its a question of doing it every match, just more than 1 or 2 matches would suffice. First game back though, you can overlook it as long as he comes good in the second leg. Another performance in the same manner or like some of his la liga matches where he missed chance after chance and then questions would need to be raised.
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