Zlatan Ibrahimovic

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Brwned said:
No-one thinks he's the best striker in the world.
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Creating your own arguments for me again?

I think Rooney is the best striker in the world. Yesterday I think he did poorly. It doesnt change that I think he's the best in the world, but it doesnt mean he did well either.

Criticising him for not being the best striker in the world is like criticising Rooney for not being the best player in the world.

Do you think he's a top class striker?
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I do think he's a top class striker and he's removed my doubts about him in that respect as I already said previously in this thread (I think it was this one anyway). But then I think there are more than a few top class strikers. And several who are better than he is. As I said, if he wants to be one of the few best in the world then he has to do a bit better than tonight with his chance to goal economy.
 
Gio said:
Look at the wider context, no striker will ever convert the majority of their 'chances'. Ibrahimovic has got the same shots-to-goal ratio as Wayne Rooney this season. Not saying he's been as good as Rooney this season, but he hasn't been particularly wasteful either.
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He has? whats your source on that, cant say I've seen that stat before. Of course it doesnt tell the whole story but would be something different to look at.
 
If one striker is a better/more consistent finisher than the other, it doesn't necessarily mean they are better. Strikers have a lot more to their game, look at Rooney for example. He doesn't finish every chance, he misses a fair bit but he also makes up for it. Ibrahimovic did that tonight.
 
Ekeke said:
Creating your own arguments for me again?

I think Rooney is the best striker in the world. Yesterday I think he did poorly. It doesnt change that I think he's the best in the world, but it doesnt mean he did well either.

I do think he's a top class striker and he's removed my doubts about him in that respect as I already said previously in this thread (I think it was this one anyway). But then I think there are more than a few top class strikers. And several who are better than he is. As I said, if he wants to be one of the few best in the world then he has to do a bit better than tonight with his chance to goal economy.
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You can see how I misunderstood.

I don't really see why you feel the need to criticise him if your view is the same as the majority of others - i.e he's not one of the very best but he's excellent all the same.

Why can't you just praise him for two nice goals today? Why can't you just praise him for having a good season?
 
Ruben said:
You are a great poster Brad, but your hate for Zlatan seems deep and not rational IMO. Something you must have picked up in Sweden for some reason.
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:lol: Eh?! My hate for Zlatan?! Good grief this place is a mess sometimes

I think he's a very good player. I wouldn't particularly want him at United, but that's personal preference. I think he has some problems with his attitude at times, and he undeniably has let himself down in Europe until this season

Most of my contributions in this post deal with 1) people saying he's better than Eto'o, which I disagree with, and 2) that he's the best striker in the world, which many have claimed
 
Team Brian GB said:
Fitting there wasn't an English player on the pitch for his two goals.
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:lol: Doesn't count then. Maybe next time, Zlatan.





Seriously, twice he exploited Arsenal's offside trap fallacies and finished brilliantly on both times. It seemed he had all the time in the world for his second.
 
AttackingFlair said:
If one striker is a better/more consistent finisher than the other, it doesn't necessarily mean they are better. Strikers have a lot more to their game, look at Rooney for example. He doesn't finish every chance, he misses a fair bit but he also makes up for it. Ibrahimovic did that tonight.
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When in his best form, when he was "undoubtably" the best striker in the world, he wasnt missing many at all. After matches when he does miss good chances, more than he scored, there can be doubts. Personally I'll stick with thinking Rooney is the best in the world, but some of you are fickle and one match makes all the difference.

Finishing is a hugely important part of a striker's game. But general play is fairly important too. In the first half his general play was also extremely poor. You'd think that being Barcelona's striker is an easier job than being the striker at much lesser sides. But he made it seem like an incredibly tough job to do anything right in that 45 minutes of football. He started the second half with a bang with 2 goals, but in the context of the night Barcelona will rue those missed chances in the first half. Those 2 goals werent enough to make up for them and the poor display in the first half in my opinion.

Even though I do think he's a top class striker. That doesnt mean I automatically think he did well in every game he plays :wenger: (Houllier for Brwned, not yourself)
 
B Cantona said:
:lol: Eh?! My hate for Zlatan?! Good grief this place is a mess sometimes

I think he's a very good player. I wouldn't particularly want him at United, but that's personal preference. I think he has some problems with his attitude at times, and he undeniably has let himself down in Europe until this season

Most of my contributions in this post deal with 1) people saying he's better than Eto'o, which I disagree with, and 2) that he's the best striker in the world, which many have claimed
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I'd be surprised if anyone suggested him being better than Eto'o prior to this season, although he's certainly been better than him this season.

The best in the world? More like one of the best.
 
Brwned said:
You can see how I misunderstood.

I don't really see why you feel the need to criticise him if your view is the same as the majority of others - i.e he's not one of the very best but he's excellent all the same.

Why can't you just praise him for two nice goals today? Why can't you just praise him for having a good season?
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I was being objective like I always try to be. I liked the goals he scored today, but thought he was dire in the first half and missed lots of good chances. 1 of them being a sitter.

It doesnt mean I have doubts about him being a top striker again, I dont. I just dont think his 2 goals made up for the horror show in the first half. As I say, just because I do think he's a top class striker doesnt mean I have to be impressed by every game he plays. Today I felt he should have done better. And yes there are days hen I feel Rooney should have done better (like the night before) or David Villa should have done better (several times this season). But er... This is the Ibrahimovic thread, after a Barcelona match. I dont mention the other players and their performances so much because this thread is supposed to be about a certain single player who played tonight, and not them.
 
Ekeke said:
That doesnt mean I automatically think he did well in every game he plays :wenger: (Houllier for Brwned, not yourself)
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If a striker scores two goals a game he'd be called the best striker in the world.

If a striker scores two goals in a game it's job well done.

It's not as if it's a controversial statement...
 
Ekeke said:
I was being objective like I always try to be. I liked the goals he scored today, but thought he was dire in the first half and missed lots of good chances. 1 of them being a sitter.

It doesnt mean I have doubts about him being a top striker again, I dont. I just dont think his 2 goals made up for the horror show in the first half. As I say, just because I do think he's a top class striker doesnt mean I have to be impressed by every game he plays. Today I felt he should have done better.
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You don't have to be critical to be objective.

I'd understand criticising him if there was a debate about whether he was in the very top bracket of strikers, but that's not what was going on here.
 
I think he was pretty good tonight. Sometimes he messed up the flow of their attacks, but most of the time his movement was never picked up and he was always involved in something. Him coming off didn't help Barca either. Very well taken goals.
 
Brwned said:
If a striker scores two goals a game he'd be called the best striker in the world.

If a striker scores two goals in a game it's job well done.

It's not as if it's a controversial statement...
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Depends how many great chances he had in that match. Sometimes you can get away with it, tonight Barcelona didnt have that luxury.

If Rooney has 15 good chances in his next match, but scores 2 and we end up drawing the game, I'm very unlikely to think he did all he could in that match.
 
Ekeke said:
When in his best form, when he was "undoubtably" the best striker in the world, he wasnt missing many at all. After matches when he does miss good chances, more than he scored, there can be doubts. Personally I'll stick with thinking Rooney is the best in the world, but some of you are fickle and one match makes all the difference.

Finishing is a hugely important part of a striker's game. But general play is fairly important too. In the first half his general play was also extremely poor. You'd think that being Barcelona's striker is an easier job than being the striker at much lesser sides. But he made it seem like an incredibly tough job to do anything right in that 45 minutes of football. He started the second half with a bang with 2 goals, but in the context of the night Barcelona will rue those missed chances in the first half. Those 2 goals werent enough to make up for them and the poor display in the first half in my opinion.

Even though I do think he's a top class striker. That doesnt mean I automatically think he did well in every game he plays
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Off the top of my head I remember him missing that sitter against City. The left footed chance against Munich last night. Had a couple of misses against Chelsea at the Bridge. Missed in open play against Liverpool when he turned the defender inside out. Had a couple of misses against Arsenal after he started to take on their back line with his dribbling, notably when he ran at Ebeoue and he fell over.

I'm not using that as a criticism for him, I'm just saying that it's usual for even the elite strikers to miss chances but then go on to score in the same game. The only player who's maybe an exception is David Villa who literally makes the most of everything, but even then he can miss.

I'm not saying this was Ibrahimovic's best of games either performance wise but he hit back at the criticism with his two crucial away goals. You're saying he should've scored in the first half, yeah maybe he should've but are you trying to say he didn't do good enough because he didn't score 4 or 5 goals in a CL quarter final tie away from home? Put it into some perspective what he's done tonight. It's not like the greatest player in the world did any better either.
 
B Cantona said:
:lol: It's not quite the reaction I'd have given how many he missed first half. Must be a strikers dream to play up front for Barca when they're in that kind of form. Finally scores against an English club and it was an accomplished finish - have to say an absolute gift from Almunia though

I'd say the Zlatan performance so far still poses as many question marks as before personally
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:lol: Dreadful:lol:
 
Brwned said:
Ah here we go again...Messi's obviously not all that because he's only scored 1 in 11 against English opposition then?

Strikers can't perform without service. He had service today and he scored two, you shouldn't really ask for much more.



:lol:

He scores two goals and you still find a way to criticise him.

Unbelievable.

He's a top class striker and has been for years.
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Tell 'em.:cool:
 
Brwned said:
You don't have to be critical to be objective.

I'd understand criticising him if there was a debate about whether he was in the very top bracket of strikers, but that's not what was going on here.
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Ekeke said:
Two good goals after a total horror show in the first half. Given what happened in the second half, he still let his team down with his misses.
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My initial post. Credit for the goals, noted the terrible first half he had and that I felt even his 2 goals didnt make up for the first half. Didnt mention anything about top bracket of strikers - only came up when explaining and expanding afterwards and moving away from initial points.

That was just my honest feeling about the match. Objective as I could be. If it comes across as criticism its because I didnt think he played as well as he could and should have. Everyone has poorer games now and again.
 
Despite scoring 2 goals he was really poor overall.Lost countless of balls but at the end of the day he may have scored the most important goals of the tie
 
Ekeke said:
He has? whats your source on that, cant say I've seen that stat before. Of course it doesnt tell the whole story but would be something different to look at.
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ESPN do them. Unsurpisingly given how lethal his finishing, Pedro has a ratio which is three times better than Ibra/Rooney/Villa. It's all about context though - he won't be popping speculative efforts from outside the box like the others.
 
I thought the passes by Pique and Xavi were just as impressive as the finishes. Two really good goals all around.
 
Gio said:
Look at the wider context, no striker will ever convert the majority of their 'chances'. Ibrahimovic has got the same shots-to-goal ratio as Wayne Rooney this season. Not saying he's been as good as Rooney this season, but he hasn't been particularly wasteful either.
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And it's his first season at a new club in a new league.
 
His all round play was decent, he had a hand in some of the best chances. His build up play was good and he allowed others to play. He missed his chances in the first half but certainly got a monkey off his back with his two very well taken goals.

Zlatan i salute you. What next shall they write about you?

Ibrahimovic has failed to score in the first half of a tie against an English club?

Zlatan has never managed a goal for his home team in match against an English side?

Both are true! and like previous truths they mean well nothing really.
 
B Cantona said:
:lol: Eh?! My hate for Zlatan?! Good grief this place is a mess sometimes

I think he's a very good player. I wouldn't particularly want him at United, but that's personal preference. I think he has some problems with his attitude at times, and he undeniably has let himself down in Europe until this season

Most of my contributions in this post deal with 1) people saying he's better than Eto'o, which I disagree with, and 2) that he's the best striker in the world, which many have claimed
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Nah, hate is perhaps a strong word. But it shines through that you don't rate him very highly, and that you always take the other side of the argument when it comes to people praising him.

If there is a Zlatan thread on here and I see that you have posted in it, I know what you have posted. Hate or not, it is clear that you underrate him. You just aren't rational when it comes to him.

I'm sure most on here, bar Ekeke, would agree tbf.
 
And I don't think many have claimed him to be the "best striker in the world".


We have said that he is either "a top class striker" or "one of the best strikers in the world". Both of which are obviously true, for everyone bar Ekeke and yourself.
 
Will stick my neck out and say he's in the top5 amongst strikers along with

Torres
Rooney
Milito
Ibrahimovic
Drogba
 
Jacob said:
Will stick my neck out and say he's in the top5 amongst strikers along with

Torres
Rooney
Milito
Ibrahimovic
Drogba
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Villa for Milito, IMO.

Etoo would have been on that list a year ago, probably ahead of Rooney.

Agree with the rest.
 
But we don't have to make it top five either.

There are probably six or seven strikers that are about as good as eachother right now.

Rooney, Torres, Drogba, Ibra, Villa, Etoo, Milito, Higuain
 
Never got the fuss about Villa, probably because I never see him play... that or the fact that he plays for Valencia, who rarely are in the CL.
 
You may want to see more of him then because he's easily one of the best strikers in the world.
 
Ruben said:
And I don't think many have claimed him to be the "best striker in the world".


We have said that he is either "a top class striker" or "one of the best strikers in the world". Both of which are obviously true, for everyone bar Ekeke and yourself.
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Why are you mentioning me when you clearly havent been reading my posts?

I've said multiple times I do think he's a top class striker.

That doesnt mean I have to think he played well or scored enough of his chances, does it?
 
Jacob said:
Never got the fuss about Villa, probably because I never see him play... that or the fact that he plays for Valencia, who rarely are in the CL.
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Still had a better scoring record in the knockout stages of the tournament than Zlatan till this season though. And has always been vastly superior to Torres when playing in the same team or same league.
 
Jacob said:
Never got the fuss about Villa, probably because I never see him play... that or the fact that he plays for Valencia, who rarely are in the CL.
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He's the best finisher in the world and his all-round game ain't half bad either.
 
Gio said:
He's the best finisher in the world and his all-round game ain't half bad either.
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His all round game doesnt get nearly enough credit. People seem to think he's just a goal scorer but far from it. The way Rooney has adapted his game would make them very compatable partners imo but there's no chance of him coming here. We'd need to strengthen centre mid first!
 
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