Zlatan Ibrahimovic |United Player | See the thread in the United Forum

Should we sign Ibra on a free this summer ?

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Downcast said:
Are Mahrez, Kanté and Payer bad players because they used to play in France?
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I would counter that with is Ligue 1 a strong league because they used to play there?

Is the Premier League a stronger league because Ronaldo, Bale, Suarez etc. used to play there, or is it now weaker for having lost them?

Downcast said:
The debate is: do we need Ibra who is available unlike many fantastic scorers?
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The answer is probably not no, we don't need him. Could he come and be very good and score a load of goals yes of course but he could also come to England and be a disaster. Fantastic scorer in France no doubt, somewhere else at 35 who knows.

United need a good striker, but that striker doesn't need to be Ibrahimovic.

Downcast said:
I know your answers and that thread is a subject dear to your heart ;)
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Yeah it keeps me up at night mate.
 
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BBRBB said:
You must hear things I don't because people overstate the quality of EPL, La Liga or Buli regularly but I can't remember anyone overstating L1 quality for quite a while.

Especially on the caf it goes to extreme levels, taking any argument to downplay L1, conclude it's shit, then playing this narrative to invent new stupid ways to say L1 is shit.
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It's been happening on the last few pages mate.

Just look in this thread (mine and Akash posts for Eg) everytime someone states the obvious that the french league isn't that strong their post is quickly jumped on by the usual suspects to tell them how wrong they are.

And it's just a statistical anomaly that PSG are 30 points ahead of the next best side and it's a strong league full of good sides really, honest because theres a guy who used to play there who had a good season for West Ham or Leicester.
 
I just can't understand how anyone can say no to Ibrahimovic on a free! Free!... If he flops who cares he will make his money back in shirt sales alone. Memphis was 3 highest seller of kits last season, imagine ibra he would smash that. My only worry is his lack of pace but as long as we sign a pacy CM and RM then there will be plenty of pace around him.
 
stevoc said:
I would counter that with is Ligue 1 a strong league because they used to play there?

Is the Premier League a stronger league because Ronaldo, Bale, Suarez etc. used to play there, or is it now weaker for having lost them?

The answer is probably not no, we don't need him. Could he come and be very good and score a load of goals yes of course but he could also come to England and be a disaster. Fantastic scorer in France no doubt, somewhere else at 35 who knows.
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I think the point is that whatever league they came from is less relevant than the qualities they have. No one knew who Mahrez or Kante even were when they came to the premier league and now they're two of its biggest stars, both featured in the team of the year. Martial is another who's been made since coming to England. Payet joined from Marseilles and has been completely unaffected by the move, being just as efficient in England as he was in France.

The second part goes for any other striker, or player for that matter, out there aswell. Zlatan is still a top striker, and we need that.
 
Ibra is a genuine leader similar to Keane and Cantona. He will demand respect and he will get everybody's attention whenever he wants. This guy is a warrior who don't compromise with his ambitions. His presence, physique and arrogant attitude will create emotions. That's good.

United needs this type of character. We need his aura, leadership and fighting spirit, on and off the pitch.

Zlatan is intelligent. Street smart. He have advisers who will help him. Henrik Larsson is one of them. Never underestimate experience.

Right know United need Zlatan Ibrahimovic more then he needs us. This is the brutal reality today.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
I just can't understand how anyone can say no to Ibrahimovic on a free! Free!... If he flops who cares he will make his money back in shirt sales alone. Memphis was 3 highest seller of kits last season, imagine ibra he would smash that. My only worry is his lack of pace but as long as we sign a pacy CM and RM then there will be plenty of pace around him.
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Can this myth die already?
 
stevoc said:
It's been happening on the last few pages mate.

Just look in this thread (mine and Akash posts for Eg) everytime someone states the obvious that the french league isn't that strong their post is quickly jumped on by the usual suspects to tell them how wrong they are.

And it's just a statistical anomaly that PSG are 30 points ahead of the next best side and it's a strong league full of good sides really, honest because theres a guy who used to play there who had a good season for West Ham or Leicester.
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Well you could conclude from those stats that L1 is very competitive except for 1st place, but obviously that's not what people want to go with.

Everyone knows L1 is not that strong, but as for it being easy to perform in, it's not backed by facts. Many players from L1 find it at least as easy to perform in EPL or other more famed leagues, and many quality players struggle even in the dominant PSG team.
 
JohnnyLaw said:
The second part goes for any other striker, or player for that matter, out there aswell. Zlatan is still a top striker, and we need that.
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Yeah of course any transfer is a risk. You could sign a 25 year old striker considered one of the best strikers in the world and he could just not adapt and flop it's always a possibility with any player.

But when you increase the age to 35 (for a striker remember) that risk increases, and then consider he has never played in England a physical league many much younger players have trouble adapting to then again the risk sky rockets.

And when you factor in the wages he will want £250-300k, probably a 2 year contract, his signing on fee, agents fees etc. (Yeah it's not completely free) Then all of a sudden when you look at it from a more objective view point instead of looking at it as a Zlatan fan, then the deal isn't actually that attractive and it's very risky.

If we sign him i hope he is wildly successful and scores shit loads of goals, but i have my doubts he can replicate anywhere near his french form in his first season in the PL at 35.
 
We need another striker, Rashford can't play the whole season on top form and without potential injuries. Martial can do the job but he seems pretty settled on the LW position right now.

Ibra will give us character also, a winning mentality that we haven't had since Rio/Vidic/Evra left. He is also a flat track bully, and to be honest we've needed 1 of those for a while. We've managed OK in the big games, but we don't score enough against the smaller teams in the league. Having his threat in the box is something we havent had in a long time.

It's perfect really, sign him on a 1 year deal, the club can market him and make shedloads, he can tick off England on his list. If he flops then he can leave to LA next year, and we can sign somebody else. If it works out, then sign him on for another year. There really is no losses here.
 
stevoc said:
Yeah of course any transfer is a risk. You could sign a 25 year old striker considered one of the best strikers in the world and he could just not adapt and flop it's always a possibility with any player.

But when you increase the age to 35 (for a striker remember) that risk increases, and then consider he has never played in England a physical league many much younger players have trouble adapting to then again the risk sky rockets.

And when you factor in the wages he will want £250-300k, probably a 2 year contract, his signing on fee, agents fees etc. (Yeah it's not completely free) Then all of a sudden when you look at it from a more objective view point instead of looking at it as a Zlatan fan, then the deal isn't actually that attractive and it's very risky.

If we sign him i hope he is wildly successful and scores shit loads of goals, but i have my doubts he can replicate anywhere near his french form in his first season in the PL at 35.
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You don't look at a signing solely objectively, Zlatan isn't a normal striker at 35. The money is not an issue, we have it in abundance and any player would demand signing on bonuses and agent fees. The high salary is countered by the fact he's joinig without a transfer fee. He's no worse today than he was 5 years ago. If Payet can transfer into the PL so seemlessly, why couldn't Zlatan?
 
BBRBB said:
Well you could conclude from those stats that L1 is very competitive except for 1st place, but obviously that's not what people want to go with.

Everyone knows L1 is not that strong, but as for it being easy to perform in, it's not backed by facts. Many players from L1 find it at least as easy to perform in EPL or other more famed leagues, and many quality players struggle even in the dominant PSG team.
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What does that actually prove though?

Over the years many players from many different leagues have came to England and been excellent does that mean the leagues they came from are comparable in quality to the PL?

No it doesn't it just means that they were good players. Same with Mahrez, Payet etc. they are also good players.
 
JohnnyLaw said:
You don't look at a signing solely objectively,
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Of course you do, signing players is a business decision.

JohnnyLaw said:
Zlatan isn't a normal striker at 35.
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Last i checked he's still human, despite some of his rabid fanboys trying to suggest otherwise. Time catches up with everyone.

How many strikers at 35 have scored 20 goals in the Premier League ever? Even 15?

How many strikers at 35 have moved to the Premier League, hell any top league having never played there before and been a success there?

JohnnyLaw said:
He's no worse today than he was 5 years ago.
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Today maybe what about 6 months from now? There's no guarantee he won't decline rapidly.

JohnnyLaw said:
If Payet can transfer into the PL so seemlessly, why couldn't Zlatan?
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I'm not saying he can't, i don't know. The Payet transfer was far less risky and expensive than signing Zlatan would be.

JohnnyLaw said:
So you're worried that Zlatan is not a good player then?
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Yeah because thats what i said, did you even read the context of the discussion that post was in.
 
Jesus christ this fecking thread, post anything that goes slightly against the grain and you get 8-9 alerts and drawn into 5 different discussions.

How dare anyone not worship at the feet of the almighty Zlatan.
 
Really... You're the only one condescending and reverting to hyperbole. Pretty much every post quoting you is offering valid discussion points - it's a forum after all.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Really... You're the only one condescending and reverting to hyperbole. Pretty much every post quoting you is offering valid discussion points - it's a forum after all.
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So i made no valid points either?
 
stevoc said:
Of course you do, signing players is a business decision.



Last i checked he's still human, despite some of his rabid fanboys trying to suggest otherwise. Time catches up with everyone.

How many strikers at 35 have scored 20 goals in the Premier League ever? Even 15?

How many strikers at 35 have moved to the Premier League, hell any top league having never played there before and been a success there?



Today maybe what about 6 months from now? There's no guarantee he won't decline rapidly.



I'm not saying he can't, i don't know. The Payet transfer was far less risky and expensive than signing Zlatan would be.



Yeah because thats what i said, did you even read the context of the discussion that post was in.
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How many score 20 goals a season anywhere at 35? That's my point when I say that Ibra is no ordinary 35 year old player. People have been waiting for that decline for about half a decade yet it hasn't really happenez. If any player has proven himself to be adaptable to the conditions of different leagues it's Zlatan.

Payet was relatively cheap for West ham, Zlatan comes with NO transfer fee for MANCHESTER United. All we know is paper talk when it comes to the salary, It may very well be oberestimated. Woodward isn't that dumb.

Explain then, because that last part sounded like you pretty much made the same point as I did in my original reply.
 
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JohnnyLaw said:
How many score 20 goals a season anywhere at 35? That's my point when I say that Ibra is no ordinary 35 year old player. People have been waiting for that decline for about half a decade yet it hasn't really happenez. If any player has proven himself to be adaptable to the conditions of different leagues it's Zlatan.
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But that decline will come mate, it's inevitable. At 35 no matter who he is and how good he's been in France it will happen. When it happens who knows but that is my main point at his age it just seems too risky. He's done great to maintain performance levels at his age, but as with every player in the history of football it can't be too long until his levels drop once you get the wrong side of 35.

JohnnyLaw said:
Payet was relatively cheap for West ham, Zlatan comes with NO transfer fee for MANCHESTER UNITED. The only risk is that if he flops we lose some face, financially he won't make a dent.
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I'm not saying it would put United out of business or anything mate, but a deal for Ibrahimovic over 2 years could potentially cost United £35-40m+ depending on wages and fees etc. Thats a shit load of money even for United, yes we are loaded but we've been poor in the transfer market since Ferguson left both in and out and wasted shit loads of money we can't keep doing that.

JohnnyLaw said:
Explain then, because that last part sounded like you pretty much made the same point as I did in my original reply.
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You've lost me mate. I said the likes of Payet etc have been successful in England because they are good players. You then replied to that post asking if i thought Ibrahimovic wasn't a good player. Where did i suggest he wasn't a good player?
 
If we sign him, we've got no chance of winning the CL cause Ibra just doesn't win the CL.
But we're 100% certain to win the league, cause Ibra just wins the league no matter what team he plays for

We're not in the CL next season, so it's a no-brainer :)
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Can this myth die already?
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Explain?

Edit just doing some digging into the figures and this really isn't that big a myth. I think Ibrahimovic could realistically bring in £10-15 million in shirt sales which is not far off his wage, certainly enough that he's no risk at all.
 
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TrustInJanuzai said:
Explain?

Edit just doing some digging into the figures and this really isn't that big a myth. I think brah could realistically bring in 10-15 million in shirt sales which is not far off his wage, certainly enough that he's no risk at all.
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Shirt sales number as a whole remains fairly static, 1.4-1.5m/year. If someone is willing to buy an Ibra shirt then chances are he would buy one to begin with.

Also, the amount of money we get from increased sale is minimal in comparison to the fixed amount we get from Adidas annually. It sure as hell isn't enough to cover a 15-20m wage. Nowhere near.

It's a lie peddled by Perez to justify his Galacticos strategy and taken for granted.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Shirt sales number as a whole remains fairly static, 1.4-1.5m/year. If someone is willing to buy an Ibra shirt then chances are he would buy one to begin with.

Also, the amount of money we get from increased sale is minimal in comparison to the fixed amount we get from Adidas annually. It sure as hell isn't enough to cover a 15-20m wage. Nowhere near.

It's a lie peddled by Perez to justify his Galacticos strategy and taken for granted.
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Shirt sales as a whole may be fairly static but the individual constituent parts aren't, so I would expect Ibrahimovic to be the biggest shirt seller by a mile for Utd and considering the brand he brings with him it's not unreasonable to expect him to add a fair few people that won't usually get a players nam on the back. For example Ronaldo has made nearly £100 million since his move from Utd in shirt sales and while that certainly doesn't mean he has made all the money back he's certainly gone some way to helping negate some cost. The point stands tho, ibra would not cost us all that much at all.
 
When I consider whether we should sign Ibra, the financial aspect doesn't even come into consideration for me. In fact, I'm surprised that there is so much focus on money in the transfer forum. I understand that we don't want to be a club throwing money away but I'd much rather we determine our preference for players on ability than cost.

I'm torn as to whether I want Ibra at United. I don't know him well enough to support my view but I'd imagine he's a fairly divisive character in the dressing room and, whilst we certainly need a few more leaders, I'm not sure he'd have a positive impact. Saying that, who better to learn your trade from than Rooney and Ibra?!? Martial and Rashford could ask for a better education really.

However, he's still a beast on the pitch and certainly doesn't play like a 35 year old pensioner.

If he can come in, play 25/30 games a season and have a hand in 15-20 goals then that sounds good to me. If LVG/Jose does a Schweiny with him and starts him every game, I suspect his body will struggle with that many full-on games in the season.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
For example Ronaldo has made nearly £100 million since his move from Utd in shirt sales
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Nope nope nope.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. Madrid made something like a whopping £500k increase in merchandise in 09-10 after they sign Ronaldo, Kaka, Benzema in the same summer. It's a myth.

Will big name players that we sign help recoup some of their transfer fees and wages in endorsements, partnerships and merchandise? Yes. Will it be enough to cover a significant chunk of those cost? No.
 
I could see him being a signing in the similar vein as Henrik Larsson, except for a full season.

Someone past his best but still a quality makeshift option until we can get someone younger and with a higher room for improvement.
 
I doubt the validity to the LA Galaxy rumors. They already have three designated players in Robbie Keane, Dos Santos and Slippy G. MLS rules allow only three designated players where you can pay them whatever salary you want. Also Nigel De Jong contract increases to a designated player level when Gerrard's contract expires in December. I don't doubt Zlatan's interest in the lifestyle of LA but he would earn significantly more playing in Europe. The highest paid players in MLS tend to make around 6 million dollars per year. Zlatan at United would far exceed that, I see him at Old Trafford next season unless we completely feck it up by keeping LvG.
 
I'm wary of this simply because of the Rooney factor, the last thing I want to see if them in the same side.
 
JohnnyLaw said:
How many score 20 goals a season anywhere at 35? That's my point when I say that Ibra is no ordinary 35 year old player. People have been waiting for that decline for about half a decade yet it hasn't really happenez. If any player has proven himself to be adaptable to the conditions of different leagues it's Zlatan.
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Not many play in a shitty league with a team head and shoulders above anyone else in the league.

He scored 20 league goals twice in his entire career before he moved to France and one of those was in a rapidly declining Italian league. Not that it's a bad record (Excellent record on the contrary) but anyone who thinks he's going to replicate his exploits at 35 from the Ligue 1 in the EPL is deluding themselves. Not least when you consider he won't be playing for a very good team attacking team and certainly not a team that's miles better than the rest.

Would be a terrible signing in the same vein as Schweinstiger.
 
@stevoc

Do you think MUFC needs to acquire a CF ? If the answer is Yes, which one?

stevoc said:
It's been happening on the last few pages mate.
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Could you quote the posts that oversell the French league?
 
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Akash said:
Not many play in a shitty league with a team head and shoulders above anyone else in the league.

He scored 20 league goals twice in his entire career before he moved to France and one of those was in a rapidly declining Italian league. Not that it's a bad record (Excellent record on the contrary) but anyone who thinks he's going to replicate his exploits at 35 from the Ligue 1 in the EPL is deluding themselves. Not least when you consider he won't be playing for a very good team attacking team and certainly not a team that's miles better than the rest.

Would be a terrible signing in the same vein as Schweinstiger.
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who would you go for instead?
 
We can't realistically expect him to score 45 goals as he did this year (which by the way is stunning for a 34 year old, regardless of the league), but we could realistically expect 25 goals from him, which given our low goal output this year has to be priority number one. Even if he stayed a year or two, it would give the younger players top cover to grow into their long term roles without the pressure of supplying all the goals.
 
Raoul said:
We can't realistically expect him to score 45 goals as he did this year (which by the way is stunning for a 34 year old, regardless of the league), but we could realistically expect 25 goals from him, which given our low goal output this year has to be priority number one. Even if he stayed a year or two, it would give the younger players top cover to grow into their long term roles without the pressure of supplying all the goals.
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25 would be nice. Our top scorer is no where near that this season. The good thing about him though is that he will also create for others
 
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