Zlatan Ibrahimovic |United Player | See the thread in the United Forum

[matherto]

This is my worry too. I think even at his prime his game is best suited to a slower paced league, which is probably why he's avoided the German and English League's, despite touring the rest of the continent. The fact that he's played against Premier League teams 18 times and has only scored 5 goals (3 against the physically weak Arsenal and 2 against a terrible Chelsea this year) also backs this up.

At 35 in this League I think he'd look like Berbatov on Valium.

The thing is, he's gotten better with age. His 30's have been like a normal persons 20's. He started off as an obviously talent but inconsistent player, when he came up against top English clubs in the past he wasn't at his best (much like Ronaldo wasn't whilst he was young and learnin') and the teams he played for weren't as good as the top English clubs either.

You only have to see what he's done for AC Milan, PSG and Sweden since going into his 30's to realise he's as good as he ever was right now. The man is a physical freak. He doesn't need pace, he can bully defenders to submission, if we played with pace around him he'd be the perfect foil for Martial, Rashford, Memphis, etc. He carries the reputation too. We have noone to be scared of in our team. Every defender is scared of Zlatan.

 

[JPRouve]

Ibrahimovic is a lot faster than people think.

 

[BBRBB]

Ibrahimovic is a lot faster than people think.

Examples:


Not the fastest but he can still outrun slow defenders or bully them at the end to get preferential position.

 

[finneh]

The thing is, he's gotten better with age. His 30's have been like a normal persons 20's. He started off as an obviously talent but inconsistent player, when he came up against top English clubs in the past he wasn't at his best (much like Ronaldo wasn't whilst he was young and learnin') and the teams he played for weren't as good as the top English clubs either.

You only have to see what he's done for AC Milan, PSG and Sweden since going into his 30's to realise he's as good as he ever was right now. The man is a physical freak. He doesn't need pace, he can bully defenders to submission, if we played with pace around him he'd be the perfect foil for Martial, Rashford, Memphis, etc. He carries the reputation too. We have noone to be scared of in our team. Every defender is scared of Zlatan.

My belief is that the sample size is too small and it's too much of a risk to agree with what you're saying to the degree of gambling on someone who at best would be good for 18 months. He's been playing in an weak league for the last 6 years, the last 4 of which he's in the strongest team by far who're completely built around him. Also, his Champions League record/performances against the best teams and English teams isn't great and has never been great. My view is that he'd get a rude awakening playing against more physical opposition every week, especially for a team that isn't going to storm the League. I also believe his style of play is counter intuitive to the kind of team that's successful in our League, a style where every player has responsibilities to track back and press the opposition defenders up the field. His spell at Barcelona would indicate likewise that you have to play with a certain system built around him for him to play well and that he struggles in a tougher League.

The closest player in this regard that I could compare him to is Jackson Martinez (of course they have a different style and Zlatan is better). Averages a goal every 1.3 games in the Portuguese League with a team built to his strengths... He goes to a tougher league and into a team that isn't built around him and is mediocre at best.

Treating a 20 year old player like a 25 year old player is one thing because of their build/experience (like Rooney), however treating a 35 year old player like a 25 year old player is a different ball game. There is a significant chance that he comes to the Premier League and struggles immensely. Plus, even if he did play well you're creating a problem for yourself in 18 months when he declines and you need to invest in another forward... Why not just go for that long term option now?

 

[bosnian_red]

A 35 year old? Coming into a faster, more physical league?
I worry he wouldn't even be that good, let alone the best by a distance! Wow!

Age doesnt seem to have impacted him the last few years and he has definitely outperformed anyone from the premier league over the last few years. Why wouldnt he be that good, he bullies literally every defence he comes up against.

 

[Sandikan]

we definitely need to move away from these sort of showy signings, and go for the Martial types. The types who have the potential o be world class, and we can develop to getting there.

 

[Devil may care]

My belief is that the sample size is too small and it's too much of a risk to agree with what you're saying to the degree of gambling on someone who at best would be good for 18 months. He's been playing in an weak league for the last 6 years, the last 4 of which he's in the strongest team by far who're completely built around him. Also, his Champions League record/performances against the best teams and English teams isn't great and has never been great. My view is that he'd get a rude awakening playing against more physical opposition every week, especially for a team that isn't going to storm the League. I also believe his style of play is counter intuitive to the kind of team that's successful in our League, a style where every player has responsibilities to track back and press the opposition defenders up the field. His spell at Barcelona would indicate likewise that you have to play with a certain system built around him for him to play well and that he struggles in a tougher League.

The closest player in this regard that I could compare him to is Jackson Martinez (of course they have a different style and Zlatan is better). Averages a goal every 1.3 games in the Portuguese League with a team built to his strengths... He goes to a tougher league and into a team that isn't built around him and is mediocre at best.

Treating a 20 year old player like a 25 year old player is one thing because of their build/experience (like Rooney), however treating a 35 year old player like a 25 year old player is a different ball game. There is a significant chance that he comes to the Premier League and struggles immensely. Plus, even if he did play well you're creating a problem for yourself in 18 months when he declines and you need to invest in another forward... Why not just go for that long term option now?

All valid concerns, but on the bolded part I think the idea would be for Martial to become our #9 after Ibra as opposed to buying a replacement.

 

[finneh]

All valid concerns, but on the bolded part I think the idea would be for Martial to become our #9 after Ibra as opposed to buying a replacement.

Then the burden would transfer from a top class number 9 to a top class wide forward. My preference would be a goal scoring wide forward (or two) and putting Martial up front now. This would take the pressure of the latter in terms of having to score every week, but also mean he can learn the position he'll end up, rather than having to adapt again down the line.

 

[JuanMata]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ys-he-could-retire-at-the-end-of-the-season/?

Interesting.

I for one would love Zlatan here, even if it's just for a year or two. He isn't that slow and he's built like a tank.

 

[Devil may care]

Then the burden would transfer from a top class number 9 to a top class wide forward. My preference would be a goal scoring wide forward (or two) and putting Martial up front now. This would take the pressure of the latter in terms of having to score every week, but also mean he can learn the position he'll end up, rather than having to adapt again down the line.

The thing is Martial could learn from playing with Ibra and in truth I think it would be easier to bring him in than trying to find a goal scoring wide forward to take the burden off Martial, as they are a rarer breed.

 

[JPRouve]

Then the burden would transfer from a top class number 9 to a top class wide forward. My preference would be a goal scoring wide forward (or two) and putting Martial up front now. This would take the pressure of the latter in terms of having to score every week, but also mean he can learn the position he'll end up, rather than having to adapt again down the line.

I use name for the sake of demonstration but we could perfectly do that:

In 2016:

We sign Mahrez, Ibrahimovic and Dembélé, we loan Dembélé to Rennes.

----------Ibrahimovic
Martial-----------------Mahrez

In 2017:

Ibrahimovic retires and we have.

------------Martial
Dembélé-----------Mahrez

 

[izec]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ys-he-could-retire-at-the-end-of-the-season/?

Interesting.

I for one would love Zlatan here, even if it's just for a year or two. He isn't that slow and he's built like a tank.

Please no, offer him a one or two year contract.

 

[DarkXaero]

A lot of people don't seem to realize that Ibra came into his prime in his 30s rather than 20s like most players. Earlier in his career, he had a reputation of being a "choker", someone who couldn't perform well in big games and CL. Thats no longer the case. Zlatan is a world class player in both club and international form who now stands out in the big games too. He has become much more consistent over time, and it has been a very unconventional career trend (the fact that he is having one of his best ever seasons at age 34). Not every player ages the same and not every player has their peak in their 20s.

Is it a possibility that he will have a sudden decline next season? At his age, thats always a possibility. But so far, at age 34, he has shown no signs of slowing down. He is a freak of nature in that regard. Going for Ibra this summer is a low risk, high reward move given the circumstances.

 

[fcbforever]

A lot of people don't seem to realize that Ibra came into his prime in his 30s rather than 20s like most players. Earlier in his career, he had a reputation of being a "choker", someone who couldn't perform well in big games and CL. Thats no longer the case. Zlatan is a world class player in both club and international form who now stands out in the big games too. He has become much more consistent over time, and it has been a very unconventional career trend (the fact that he is having one of his best ever seasons at age 34). Not every player ages the same and not every player has their peak in their 20s.

Is it a possibility that he will have a sudden decline next season? At his age, thats always a possibility. But so far, at age 34, he has shown no signs of slowing down. He is a freak of nature in that regard. Going for Ibra this summer is a low risk, high reward move given the circumstances.

A big game player? For PSG in Ligue 1? Or in their rather inconsistent Champions League campaigns? I don't know.

 

[finneh]

The thing is Martial could learn from playing with Ibra and in truth I think it would be easier to bring him in than trying to find a goal scoring wide forward to take the burden off Martial, as they are a rarer breed.

It'll definitely be easier, but the question is whether it'd be more effective and less of a risk. If you're going to sign Ibrahimovic this Summer and a wide forward next Summer, surely it'd be better to just sign the latter this Summer? Rather than doubling the risk by hoping two foreign imports settle quickly and have a positive impact.

I use name for the sake of demonstration but we could perfectly do that:

In 2016:

We sign Mahrez, Ibrahimovic and Dembélé, we loan Dembélé to Rennes.

----------Ibrahimovic
Martial-----------------Mahrez

In 2017:

Ibrahimovic retires and we have.

------------Martial
Dembélé-----------Mahrez

It just seems like we're adding extra risk and extra cost unnecessarily. It's one more expensive signing that has a good chance of failing, when we could be more proactive in integrating a long term solution. If we were winning the League this season I could understand the logic: we're already very good and he could be the icing on the cake. However we aren't very good at the moment and we need to be building towards being good. Ibrahimovic doesn't really fit into that plan.

Option A: We spend maybe £20m in wages/signing on fees to have Ibrahimovic for maybe 18 months and then spend £60m on someone like Griezmann.

Option B: We spend £60m on someone like Griezmann.

I can't think of a single scenario where not integrating the signing we'll have to make anyway makes sense. Even your scenario which is the closest means we're integrating two new signings next year and another new signing the year after. That along with changes in defence and potentially midfield would almost certainly mean another few seasons of transition.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that Ibra came into his prime in his 30s rather than 20s like most players. Earlier in his career, he had a reputation of being a "choker", someone who couldn't perform well in big games and CL. Thats no longer the case. Zlatan is a world class player in both club and international form who now stands out in the big games too. He has become much more consistent over time, and it has been a very unconventional career trend (the fact that he is having one of his best ever seasons at age 34). Not every player ages the same and not every player has their peak in their 20s.

Is it a possibility that he will have a sudden decline next season? At his age, thats always a possibility. But so far, at age 34, he has shown no signs of slowing down. He is a freak of nature in that regard. Going for Ibra this summer is a low risk, high reward move given the circumstances.

Which are these big games you're referring to, discarding the two legs against the 10th best team in the Premier League this season?

There's no situation where plucking a 35 year old from an awful, none physical League and hoping they'll flourish in a very physical, much stronger League could ever be classed as low risk.

 

[JPRouve]

It just seems like we're adding extra risk and extra cost unnecessarily. It's one more expensive signing that has a good chance of failing, when we could be more proactive in integrating a long term solution. If we were winning the League this season I could understand the logic: we're already very good and he could be the icing on the cake. However we aren't very good at the moment and we need to be building towards being good. Ibrahimovic doesn't really fit into that plan.

Option A: We spend maybe £20m in wages/signing on fees to have Ibrahimovic for maybe 18 months and then spend £60m on someone like Griezmann.

Option B: We spend £60m on someone like Griezmann.

I can't think of a single scenario where not integrating the signing we'll have to make anyway makes sense. Even your scenario which is the closest means we're integrating two new signings next year and another new signing the year after. That along with changes in defence and potentially midfield would almost certainly mean another few seasons of transition.

If we can sign Griezmann we should go after him, but Griezmann is pretty much spanish, he isn't going to leave easily.

 

[Devil may care]

It'll definitely be easier, but the question is whether it'd be more effective and less of a risk. If you're going to sign Ibrahimovic this Summer and a wide forward next Summer, surely it'd be better to just sign the latter this Summer? Rather than doubling the risk by hoping two foreign imports settle quickly and have a positive impact.

Well there's also the possibility of Memphis stepping up in that 2 season period as well, plus I just don't see where we'd get a wide forward that scores enough goals to risk starting next season with Martial as the first choice #9.

 

[DarkXaero]

A big game player? For PSG in Ligue 1? Or in their rather inconsistent Champions League campaigns? I don't know.

19 goals, 10 assists in 32 CL appearances for PSG. 9 goals, 4 assists in 16 CL appearances for AC Milan before that. Are those bad numbers to you?

 

[fcbforever]

19 goals, 10 assists in 32 CL appearances for PSG. 9 goals, 4 assists in 16 CL appearances for AC Milan before that. Are those bad numbers to you?

Almost exclusively in the group stages for Milan. Actuall, since leaving Barcelona, he scored 5 goals in the knockoutrounds. I'll give you two of those were against Chelsea this year, but two others were in a battering of Leverkusen two seasons ago. Hasn't scored in a quarterfinal since leaving Barcelona.
I don't say he's bad when it's getting important, but you can hardly say he's a true big game player. He just got hyped for his excentricism and unique playstyle a bit more in recent years, while being a very big fish in a pond gradually becoming smaller and smaller. He shouldn't be in consideration for a position at United, for that kind of wages, there are far better players available with a lot more future to them.

 

[BBRBB]

Hasn't scored in a quarterfinal since leaving Barcelona.

Wrong.

 

[fcbforever]

Wrong.

Misread transfermarkt.de there. Still, that was 4 years ago. Honestl, I'm not saying he's a choker, but he's not some magical thingy winning games....massively overhyped in my opinion just because he's not streamlined and people like his arrogance in a weird way, just like with Bendtner. But coupled with actual abilities.

 

[itso 7]

My belief is that the sample size is too small and it's too much of a risk to agree with what you're saying to the degree of gambling on someone who at best would be good for 18 months. He's been playing in an weak league for the last 6 years, the last 4 of which he's in the strongest team by far who're completely built around him. Also, his Champions League record/performances against the best teams and English teams isn't great and has never been great. My view is that he'd get a rude awakening playing against more physical opposition every week, especially for a team that isn't going to storm the League. I also believe his style of play is counter intuitive to the kind of team that's successful in our League, a style where every player has responsibilities to track back and press the opposition defenders up the field. His spell at Barcelona would indicate likewise that you have to play with a certain system built around him for him to play well and that he struggles in a tougher League.

The closest player in this regard that I could compare him to is Jackson Martinez (of course they have a different style and Zlatan is better). Averages a goal every 1.3 games in the Portuguese League with a team built to his strengths... He goes to a tougher league and into a team that isn't built around him and is mediocre at best.

Treating a 20 year old player like a 25 year old player is one thing because of their build/experience (like Rooney), however treating a 35 year old player like a 25 year old player is a different ball game. There is a significant chance that he comes to the Premier League and struggles immensely. Plus, even if he did play well you're creating a problem for yourself in 18 months when he declines and you need to invest in another forward... Why not just go for that long term option now?

Because we already have the long term option/s here but next season could be a season too soon for Martial and Rashford whilst our veteran striker activated shit-mode the moment Moyes got him that ridiculous contract. Ideally Rooney would play as #9 whilst Martial works on his game playing LW and he would occasionally play through the centre when Rooney is rested/injured/out of form but Rooney's form isn't giving us that luxury.
Another thing, which makes it impossible to accurately gauge where we stand with our forwards, is the Vangle effect. I suspect that when he leaves a lot of players are likely to shock us with how they will improve especially Memphis and Rooney who I think are suffering the most from Vangle's regimented style. Which is why next season Id rather we just signed a goal scoring wing forward and play a wait and see game with Martial, Rashford, Rooney and Memphis for the striker and LW positions. Memphis and Martial could come good(in the roles they were originally brought in for) thereby negating the need for a new striker. Rooney could recover to a more 'acceptable' level and Martial would then compete with Memphis or Rashford could remain sensational. Our forward and left wing permutations are just too much for one of them not to turn out good.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Because we already have the long term option/s here but next season could be a season too soon for Martial and Rashford whilst our veteran striker activated shit-mode the moment Moyes got him that ridiculous contract. Ideally Rooney would play as #9 whilst Martial works on his game playing LW and he would occasionally play through the centre when Rooney is rested/injured/out of form but Rooney's form isn't giving us that luxury.
Another thing, which makes it impossible to accurately gauge where we stand with our forwards, is the Vangle effect. I suspect that when he leaves a lot of players are likely to shock us with how they will improve especially Memphis and Rooney who I think are suffering the most from Vangle's regimented style. Which is why next season Id rather we just signed a goal scoring wing forward and play a wait and see game with Martial, Rashford, Rooney and Memphis for the striker and LW positions. Memphis and Martial could come good(in the roles they were originally brought in for) thereby negating the need for a new striker. Rooney could recover to a more 'acceptable' level and Martial would then compete with Memphis or Rashford could remain sensational. Our forward and left wing permutations are just too much for one of them not to turn out good.

One of the main reason Im for Ibra is so that he come come in a be a stop gap solution whilst Rashford and Martial improve and mature. Im a romantic, I dont want a Lukaku blocking the way for Rashford.

 

[itso 7]

One of the main reason Im for Ibra is so that he come come in a be a stop gap solution whilst Rashford and Martial improve and mature. Im a romantic, I dont want a Lukaku blocking the way for Rashford.

That could be so and I did allude to it in the first part of my post but unless 'you know who' fecks off we'd be back to 2014 again with two slow strikers that expect to start every match. We CAN'T sign Ibra if Rooney is still here because the politics of dropping Rooney will be toxic in the dressing room.

 

[DarkXaero]

Almost exclusively in the group stages for Milan. Actuall, since leaving Barcelona, he scored 5 goals in the knockoutrounds. I'll give you two of those were against Chelsea this year, but two others were in a battering of Leverkusen two seasons ago. Hasn't scored in a quarterfinal since leaving Barcelona.
I don't say he's bad when it's getting important, but you can hardly say he's a true big game player. He just got hyped for his excentricism and unique playstyle a bit more in recent years, while being a very big fish in a pond gradually becoming smaller and smaller. He shouldn't be in consideration for a position at United, for that kind of wages, there are far better players available with a lot more future to them.

To me, it just looks like you're adjusting your position constantly to prove a point that simply isn't there because you think he is an overrated player. His CL stats are good, his international stats have been phenomenal over the past few years. What you're using against him is something he hasn't been a part of. It's not necessarily his fault that his teams haven't gotten very far in the CL, especially when there have been much stronger CL teams around. People recognize him as a great player because he is, his playing style and personality only add to it.

 

[dasty]

Marcotti made a good point...

All of the talk in the English press is based off a couple of throwaway lines but when you like at Zlatan's options, they're very limited here. From the offset he'll want 2 things and to avoid a 3rd...

1) He won't want a pay cut so you're looking at a club that can pay £250k a week minimum. Leicester and Spurs out.

2) He will want CL football. Utd and Liverpool out as it stands.

3) He won't want to work with Pep again. City out.

That leaves Arsenal and while it's not impossible it is in the realms of "unlikely" that Wenger would go for that option.

It's renewal talk. Gassing PSG up. If they don't come, then it'll get serious. I'm not sure he would fancy 2 years with us for the love of Mou if 1 is guaranteed to not be amongst the European pinnacle competition. Especially at 35 going on 37.

Didn't know that Eiffel Tower will be changed into a Zlatan statue!

 

[fcbforever]

To me, it just looks like you're adjusting your position constantly to prove a point that simply isn't there because you think he is an overrated player. His CL stats are good, his international stats have been phenomenal over the past few years. What you're using against him is something he hasn't been a part of. It's not necessarily his fault that his teams haven't gotten very far in the CL, especially when there have been much stronger CL teams around. People recognize him as a great player because he is, his playing style and personality only add to it.

Even if you are taking this stance, well, not playing in big games would mean he's not a big game player is he?
I'm not adjusting, I admitted I made one mistake, fair enough. Rest of points do still still stand. Just look against whom he scored. Might look nice on paper, not so impressive in detail. His arrogance enables him to pull off amazing stuff, merely because nobody else would think of trying. Looks good on youtube afterwards.
Seriously, this guy is 35. I think he would be an absolute epic fail if he was to compete with the phisicality of the Premier League week in, week out. Laugh all you want about these cold, rainy nights against Stoke, but can you really imagine Zlatan there?
And can you really imagine Zlatan nurturing young players, accepting not to be the star of the team and a guarenteed starter?

 

[Shamwow]

Would be great to have a player like him to bring a bit of prestige back to the team.

Mourinho, Ibra and five others please. At least.

Would you rather get Ibra in for the short-term fix get someone like Kane in for ~£50m which might not be worth it straight away but could have greater rewards in the end?

 

[stevoc]

As great a player as he is and as interested as i would be to see Ibrahimovic sign for United and play in the Premier League i just don't see how it makes sense.

Looking at his stats he's been brilliant the last few years but for the wages he would command and with the fact he's almost 35 i just don't see it being a wise move. Yes i know he's a genetic freak, doesn't rely on pace, bullies defenders yadda yadda yadda.

All that talk while possibly true seems a bit optimistic in my opinion, time catches up with everyone eventually and i don't much like the thought of us relying on a 35 year old striker being able to quickly adapt to the physicality of the PL having never even played there before. Plus if we gave him a two year deal we would be paying a striker who is turning 37 £250-300k pw. Think about that one it doesn't seem like good business.

Not to mention if it does happen, having already signed Falcao, Valdes and Schweinsteiger in the last few years we are in danger of becoming a bit of a retirement home for big names past their best looking for one last big pay day.

 

[Cal?]

Would you rather get Ibra in for the short-term fix get someone like Kane in for ~£50m which might not be worth it straight away but could have greater rewards in the end?

Kane would cost a lot more than £50m, and could be a disastrous signing.

 

[BBRBB]

Zlatan saw @fcbforever comments and answered with a video:

 

[Ecstatic]

Sure, he has lost a part of his pace but against Chelsea he has proved he is still strong to manage the EPL defenders. We are talking of player whose contract expires next summer...

He has shined against all the greatest clubs and nations.

- 62 goals in 112 games with Sweden (a weak country). 2015/16: 6 goals in 7 games with Sweden
- 51 goals in 126 games in Champions League. He scored against any clubs including Barcelona with PSG/Milan and delivered assists
- Best scorer many times of the Serie A and French Ligue 1
- Good stats with Barcelona.
- More than 25 trophies

The Brazilian Ronaldo has never won the Champions League.

For instance, let's look at his performances against Bayern Munich

Juventus 1-0 Bayern - October 2004

Bayern 0-1 Juventus- November 2004

Bayern 2-1 Juventus- Zlatan scored - October 2005



Juventus 2-1 Bayern - November 2005

 

[Ecstatic]

He could be viewed as an arrogant player but he will make everyone - including the youth - stronger. He hasn't a whining mentality.

Moreover, he is slower and he likes to create opportunities for fast wingers.

To finish, are some serious to think MUFC is a poor club that can't pay his wages?

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Loved zlatan at Milan more than anyone. IMO the player he is most likely to help improve is Wilson and then Rashford. ThoughbRashford has moved up a gear above Wilson, the latter could be phenomenal if he learnt how to adequately hold up the ball.

Mourinho the Chelsea manager wouldn't help. Maybe the old school Porto one would.

 

[Ecstatic]

Let's look at Zlatan against ManCity to have a greater idea of his ability to succeed in the EPL.

 

[Ecstatic]

A song dedicated to Zlatan

 

[Cassidy]

Let's look at Zlatan against ManCity to have a greater idea of his ability to succeed in the EPL.

Chelsea not enough

 

[Jacob]

A song dedicated to Zlatan

Lol, I know those tossers.

 

[Ecstatic]

Lol, I know those tossers.

I have discovered the song today: are they popular in Sweden?

I can't say I do love their music

 

[Eckers99]

Yes, it's appealing - big name, still playing well (in a poor league), iconic figure in the game - but it also stinks of us signing someone who's 'doing us a favour'. Our most successful signings, not just in recent years (Martial, Blind, Shaw) but also historically (Cantona, Ronaldo, Rooney, Keane, Vidic...) have always had something to prove. They were either players hungry to take their game up to the next level or, players who needed the right platform (Eric again).

The prominent failures have been the big-money players who never really seemed to get the club or have the desire to prove their worth.

There are lots of talented players out there who have something to prove - we should be aiming for them instead.