[Pexbo]

True but that's not his job. He failed in that regard last night. If he hadn't nicked a fortuitous goal would people have voted him MoTM?

Whys that not his job? As a target man against a team sitting deep you have a job to control the space. He drops deep, pulls the defensive line higher and our wide players exploit the space wide before putting it across.


The other option is for him to be shoulder to shoulder with the centrebacks and us lump the ball up to him in a congested final third.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Whys that not his job? As a target man against a team sitting deep you have a job to control the space. He drops deep, pulls the defensive line higher and our wide players exploit the space wide before putting it across.


The other option is for him to be shoulder to shoulder with the centrebacks and us lump the ball up to him in a congested final third.

But he didn't pull the defensive line higher when he dropped deep. That's the problem. As such, yes, I think he'd have been better off staying on the shoulder of the centre backs.

I understand that forwards sometimes get frustrated but there's nothing worse than when the focal point of your attack is faffing about in midfield.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Scores when not playing well. Very good trait to have.

 

[The Stain]

But he didn't pull the defensive line higher when he dropped deep. That's the problem. As such, yes, I think he'd have been better off staying on the shoulder of the centre backs.

I understand that forwards sometimes get frustrated but there's nothing worse than when the focal point of your attack is faffing about in midfield.

He does that every game, has done for years. Everyone who is getting frustrated with him dropping deep; prepare to be very frustrated as long as he plays for United.

 

[noodlehair]

It wasn't a glittering display but to call his performance "absolutely atrocious" is pure hyperbole.

He didn't have much to feed off around the area so dropped deep and linked up well with the midfield.

We struggled to put an attack together all night in no small part because of him. He was out of position too often for us to play through him, and he wasn't setting up attacks for anyone else. He was just going about hampering things and losing the ball too easily. We created not a single real chance against an awful team, despite controlling the entire game.

He got the goal but if we'd had some kind of ability to actually put an effective attack together it might not have been such a pathetic looking struggle to get it.

I didn't think anyone played particularly well but he was definitely on the culprit list.

 

[SwansonsTache]

He does that every game, has done for years. Everyone who is getting frustrated with him dropping deep; prepare to be very frustrated as long as he plays for United.

If done properly with Martial or Rashford then occupying the room he left then it can be an asset and not a problem.

 

[shamans]

Zlatan wank fest is a bit annoying to be honest. He didn't play that well last night but he got the goal. As far as I'm concerned, a striker's job is to score/get a goal. If you have a goal to your name as a striker I don't care too much about how you played the rest of the match.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He does that every game, has done for years. Everyone who is getting frustrated with him dropping deep; prepare to be very frustrated as long as he plays for United.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm new to the circus that is the Zlatan. Will keep an eye on it.

 

[The Stain]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm new to the circus that is the Zlatan. Will keep an eye on it.

Yeah, i didn't want open with the ol "you can't have watched him much" spiel. That's why i want us to play 4-3-3.

 

[shaggy]

It wasn't a glittering display but to call his performance "absolutely atrocious" is pure hyperbole.

He didn't have much to feed off around the area so dropped deep and linked up well with the midfield.

Yep.

'Absolutely atrocious' can be reserved for the likes of Rojo.

 

[RedCurry]

True but that's not his job. He failed in that regard last night. If he hadn't nicked a fortuitous goal would people have voted him MoTM?

Linking up play is not his job, scoring goals is but he linked up well anyway. He scored the match winning goal so he did also do his job. Whichever way you look at it, he did not have an "atrocious" game like someone said on this thread.

 

[Attila]

This. Fine, he was aware enough to get the goal after Rooney tried a volley with his knee but Zlatan was constantly out of position, dropping deep to pick up the ball leaving no one up front to be the focal point for attacks.

Stolen from an @Invictus post.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bbc-united-hold-talks-with-mourinho.414325/page-359#post-19198246

He's been dropping deep and conducting play for years. It's not him being out of position.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Stolen from an @Invictus post.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bbc-united-hold-talks-with-mourinho.414325/page-359#post-19198246

He's been dropping deep and conducting play for years. It's not him being out of position.

Well, it is actually. Him doing what he does is not necessarily him doing what he should or what the manager expects him to do. He's Rooneying it and the last thing we need is for our lone striker to drop deep. Having no one up top is the faster route to aimless Van Gaal sideways pass fests.

I'd argue that when players are struggling to have an impact they'll revert to what they know best. Credit for being in an advanced position and being alert for the goal but otherwise was not effective last night at all.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If people are getting annoyed at him dropping deep, then they better get used to it.

He's always been like that.

 

[Santoryo]

Some people in here are only used to these old school type of strikers, the one who are always there to beat the offside trap etc. Nowadays you'd be hard pressed to find striker who are merely the focal point of attack and don't get involved in plays as much as any other player.

Zlatan dropping deep doesn't mean he isn't doing his job, in fact he's doing what's expected from him which is link up play sometimes and which is why we also have fast wingers on either sides to exploit the spaces he would normally create by dropping deep and sometimes dragging defenders with him.

All these claims about him not doing his job because he's getting involved in the play and dropping just shows the lack of footballing knowledge your typical poster on the internet have but always love pretending to be experts.

 

[harms]

Well, it is actually. Him doing what he does is not necessarily him doing what he should or what the manager expects him to do. He's Rooneying it and the last thing we need is for our lone striker to drop deep. Having no one up top is the faster route to aimless Van Gaal sideways pass fests.

I'd argue that when players are struggling to have an impact they'll revert to what they know best. Credit for being in an advanced position and being alert for the goal but otherwise was not effective last night at all.

It's not a problem, it's an asset.
Freaking Nocerino scored 10 goals in a season playing with him. Matuidi and others also exploited the space he left for them while dropping deep, scoring a fair amount of goals.

We have Martial, Rashford and Pogba capable of exploiting it, Zlatan knows it, Jose knows it. Fluidity is what separates great attacks from good ones - if Ibra were to play as a glorified Andy Carroll, never dropping deep, it would've limited him and our attacking play massively

 

[Attila]

Well, it is actually. Him doing what he does is not necessarily him doing what he should or what the manager expects him to do. He's Rooneying it and the last thing we need is for our lone striker to drop deep. Having no one up top is the faster route to aimless Van Gaal sideways pass fests.

I'd argue that when players are struggling to have an impact they'll revert to what they know best. Credit for being in an advanced position and being alert for the goal but otherwise was not effective last night at all.

How do you know what the manager expects him to do? Mourinho signed a striker who drops deep and well he is dropping deep. There was no service to him so he dropped deep to make things happen. Personally I thought he performed very well in the past 2 games.

He's been dropping deep for years for PSG! Surely Mourinho would notice that this is a part of Ibra's game! Your complaints against him are baffling

 

[Attila]

If people are getting annoyed at him dropping deep, then they better get used to it.

He's always been like that.

It's very strange. He's been playing like this for years now and of course Mourinho would expect this style of play from Ibra

 

[Sylar]

I dont think most people watched many games with him at PSG.

One of the reasons i was happy we were signing him was because I was hoping when he dropped deep, we would have Martial and Rashford and the like to run off him. Pogba being bought was a bonus as I was expecting him (long term) to be playing higher and making runs off him too.

 

[ShakeUnBake]

So now, at 34, we want to change Zlatan to what is essentially a glorified target man up front? I hope I'm reading that wrong. Zlatan has had a legendary career and is very experienced at this point -- as much as he'll appreciate caftards telling him how to do his job, I'm sure he will cope somehow.

In all seriousness, I'm sometimes curious as to how we would play if we didn't employ a "10". We seem to have the perfect players for a very unique 4-3-3. A midfield of Herrera/Fellaini, Carrick/Schneiderlin/Blind and Pogba, Martial on the left and Rashford on the right, Zlatan dropping deep and Rashford and Martial surging past him, full-backs bombing forward, and decent defensive cover since we have two holding midfielders. With the fullbacks providing width, Martial and Rashford snaking inside, Zlatan functioning as a platform from which to launch attacks as well as a presence in the box when the ball is on the wings, and Pogba free to roam everywhere, it seems we'd be varied in our attack. I'm unsure wether Mourinho is willing to commit so many bodies to offense at a time though.

 

[podurban2]

So now, at 34, we want to change Zlatan to what is essentially a glorified target man up front? I hope I'm reading that wrong. Zlatan has had a legendary career and is very experienced at this point -- as much as he'll appreciate caftards telling him how to do his job, I'm sure he will cope somehow.

In all seriousness, I'm sometimes curious as to how we would play if we didn't employ a "10". We seem to have the perfect players for a very unique 4-3-3. A midfield of Herrera/Fellaini, Carrick/Schneiderlin/Blind and Pogba, Martial on the left and Rashford on the right, Zlatan dropping deep and Rashford and Martial surging past him, full-backs bombing forward, and decent defensive cover since we have two holding midfielders. With the fullbacks providing width, Martial and Rashford snaking inside, Zlatan functioning as a platform from which to launch attacks as well as a presence in the box when the ball is on the wings, and Pogba free to roam everywhere, it seems we'd be varied in our attack. I'm unsure wether Mourinho is willing to commit so many bodies to offense at a time though.

People don't want to change him, they actually believe he is a true target man up front. Mainly because they haven't watched him enough and don't know shit about what they are talking about, frankly.

 

[podurban2]

Well, it is actually. Him doing what he does is not necessarily him doing what he should or what the manager expects him to do. He's Rooneying it and the last thing we need is for our lone striker to drop deep. Having no one up top is the faster route to aimless Van Gaal sideways pass fests.

I'd argue that when players are struggling to have an impact they'll revert to what they know best. Credit for being in an advanced position and being alert for the goal but otherwise was not effective last night at all.

Sorry but this is atrocious. First of all I don't think you know what a type of player Zlatan is, and secondly you have absolutely no idea what Mou wants of him.

 

[JPRouve]

People don't want to change him, they actually believe he is a true target man up front. Mainly because they haven't watched him enough and don't know shit about what they are talking about, frankly.

That's really frustrating because that's what makes Ibrahimovic. There is no point signing Ibrahimovic if you don't let him be himself.

 

[Scholesy]

Zlatan has dropped deep a few times but not as much as a "false 9"

If oyou have fast penetrating attackers either side, then dropping deep is not so bad.

 

[bosnian_red]

That's really frustrating because that's what makes Ibrahimovic. There is no point signing Ibrahimovic if you don't let him be himself.

Yep. He has been doing it for years and its part of what makes him world class, having that ability to play deeper and then still get forward and be that center forward. Mourinho has always been okay with him doing that and its ridiculous to suggest he isnt doing his job by dropping deep. He is just doing what he has always done and what has always made him a brilliant player

 

[JPRouve]

Yep. He has been doing it for years and its part of what makes him world class, having that ability to play deeper and then still get forward and be that center forward. Mourinho has always been okay with him doing that and its ridiculous to suggest he isnt doing his job by dropping deep. He is just doing what he has always done and what has always made him a brilliant player

I have always been amazed by the ability that he has to be involved in the build up of a goal at 40m of the box but still ends up in the box. Only Suarez and Ronaldo are able to do that and they are both a lot faster than him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Weird to see people criticizing him dropping deep. Its been a great addition to our play of late. We have a centre forward keeping centre backs busy (scoring a goal too) and also dropping deep to do what Rooney would usually do (but worse) and allows us to play Mata as well.

Ibra has always done this and he's great at it. He doesn't drop back for the sake of it. He's actually very composed and strong on the ball and links up very well.

Long may it continue.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Weird to see people criticizing him dropping deep.

Exactly. One of the key reasons we were so good last weekend was because he dropped deep (and did well there, unlike Captain Fantabulous)

 

[ti vu]

Well, it is actually. Him doing what he does is not necessarily him doing what he should or what the manager expects him to do. He's Rooneying it and the last thing we need is for our lone striker to drop deep. Having no one up top is the faster route to aimless Van Gaal sideways pass fests.

I'd argue that when players are struggling to have an impact they'll revert to what they know best. Credit for being in an advanced position and being alert for the goal but otherwise was not effective last night at all.

You're contradicting within your post. You're making dropping deep = Rooneying while in fact it's LVG who required Rooney and other #9 to stay up front and occupy the defenders, which made it hard for Rooney whose natural game is undisciplined! That what pro Rooney camp criticized LVG. Silent domination, anyone?

We have Rashford and Mata push up and stay central so Zlatan is afforded to drop and build up play. The difference between Zlatan vs Rooney when dropping deep is Zlatan has better play making ability so not much of that cross field to the right and rush into the box (the main problem for the tactic). Zlatan actually can create good play left right and through middle.

 

[Ban]

If he just stayed up and woulndn't drop deep some people would criticize him for not contributing to the attack enough and that he's lazy.
He has been absolutely fine and there's no problem whatsoever with him dropping deep.

 

[ivaldo]

Baffling there are complaints here because he's dropping deep, you only have to go back to the Leicester game to see how devastatingly effective it can be, Leicester's centrebacks were at a complete loss and when you have fast, incisive players ready to fill the gaps he leaves then it's very difficult to defend against.

 

[marjen]

Baffling there are complaints here because he's dropping deep, you only have to go back to the Leicester game to see how devastatingly effective it can be, Leicester's centrebacks were at a complete loss and when you have fast, incisive players ready to fill the gaps he leaves then it's very difficult to defend against.

Against Leicester he went in behind their defense as well at times to great effect, to be fair.

The problem vs Zorya was there was no space behind their defence due to them sitting so deep.

 

[Striker10]

Let's not be critical of Zlatan. It's up to the players around him to improve. Zlatan could play on for 2/3+ years but it's the lads around him with the legs. Let's hope they have the smarts to get the best out of him. After a mini goalscoring rut, it's good he got back into goalscoring form. That could and should be important today at stoke.

 

[ti vu]

Let's not be critical of Zlatan. It's up to the players around him to improve. Zlatan could play on for 2/3+ years but it's the lads around him with the legs. Let's hope they have the smarts to get the best out of him. After a mini goalscoring rut, it's good he got back into goalscoring form. That could and should be important today at stoke.

Is Shawcross available? Must be shitting brick meeting Zlatan again, especially with Stoke in this form.

 

[M Bison]

It could go either way the whole dropping deep debate.

The proof is in the pudding and whether it will work for us over the season. The fact that "it's always what Zlatan has done" is irrelevant if we're not getting the points on the board.

I'm worried that it congests the middle of the park too much and makes us easier to play against but the key is having pace around him, both out wide and in midfield to go beyond him.

Ultimately time will tell and its Mou's job to get it working.

 

[M Bison]

Let's not be critical of Zlatan. It's up to the players around him to improve. Zlatan could play on for 2/3+ years but it's the lads around him with the legs. Let's hope they have the smarts to get the best out of him. After a mini goalscoring rut, it's good he got back into goalscoring form. That could and should be important today at stoke.

Don't agree, if he fails to perform he is rightly criticised as would any other player. It's everyone's job to perform and you can't blame the rest of the team if he plays badly, or rely on others to get the best out of him.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Don't agree, if he fails to perform he is rightly criticised as would any other player. It's everyone's job to perform and you can't blame the rest of the team if he plays badly, or rely on others to get the best out of him.

But that's a blinkered view that fails to accept that in order to perform Zlatan more than most players needs support. Football is a team game and when the supply is poor the strikers job becomes a hell of a lot harder so while he shouldn't be immune to critacism he isn't the root of the problems. Personally I have had nothing to complain about when it comes to Zlatan, he's scored some excellent (and important) goals and his overall play has been at a high level in pretty much every game but at times he has been too isolated.

 

[M Bison]

But that's a blinkered view that fails to accept that in order to perform Zlatan more than most players needs support. Football is a team game and when the supply is poor the strikers job becomes a hell of a lot harder so while he shouldn't be immune to critacism he isn't the root of the problems. Personally I have had nothing to complain about when it comes to Zlatan, he's scored some excellent (and important) goals and his overall play has been at a high level in pretty much every game but at times he has been too isolated.

My point is; if he plays badly he shouldn't escape criticism just because he's Zlatan.

Your comment highlighted above is a major worry, I don't actually agree with it to be honest, but it sounds as though you're willing to accept someone who requires more support than another striker.

 

[Chorley1974]

6.3 average!!!

 

[Jed I. Knight]

My conclusion so far is that he's a notably poorer finisher than I expected. He has the ability to make the odd difficult finish look like simple, but he's cocked up a fair few "easy" chances, and there have been several occasions where I expected him to do more out of chances that are not necessarily easy.

Otherwise he's done alright so far.