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2016-17 Performances

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6.2 Season Average Rating
Appearances
46
Goals
28
Assists
9
Yellow cards
8
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Dobbs said:
We've struggled to create against Fenerbace and Feyerbord away. Same goes for the games against Bournemouth, Hull, Watford, both games against Zorya and Southampton.

Yes Everton, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal are better but it doesn't change that we didn't create much against them.

It took until the 8th game of the season against Leicester for us to produce high quality attacking football.

I don't know how that can be characterised as "creating lots of chances in almost every game." It's beyond opinion this, our struggles are clear to see.

A handful of games has skewered the stats and your impression of the season.

I'm not excusing Zaltan here, he's part of that attack and as responsible as the others.
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Odd...

He didnt start against Feyenoord and was suspended against Arsenal. Against Liverpool our tactics were such that we were never going to create chances so having a striker who can hold up play was always going to be better than somebody that could run fast. Against Chelsea away, we probably created as many chances as them. Against Fenerbace he came on as a sub (we looked as bad before as we did after).
We created enough against Bournemouth and Southampton to win the game comfortably.

But the reason, as @ivaldo put it, we are talking about recent form is because thats where we saw a change (beginning of season vs recent games). Weve seen more of 4231 / 433 with the change happening at half time against City at home where we played much better (and yes, we did create chances).

You say our struggles are clear to see. But the main struggle is being clinical in front of goal. Thats where Zlatan can take responsibility as hes had chances he really should be scoring (the goal line clearance against City, the one early against Stoke, the late one against Burnley).
 
Sylar said:
Odd...

He didnt start against Feyenoord and was suspended against Arsenal. Against Liverpool our tactics were such that we were never going to create chances so having a striker who can hold up play was always going to be better than somebody that could run fast. Against Chelsea away, we probably created as many chances as them. Against Fenerbace he came on as a sub (we looked as bad before as we did after).
We created enough against Bournemouth and Southampton to win the game comfortably.

But the reason, as @ivaldo put it, we are talking about recent form is because thats where we saw a change (beginning of season vs recent games). Weve seen more of 4231 / 433 with the change happening at half time against City at home where we played much better (and yes, we did create chances).

You say our struggles are clear to see. But the main struggle is being clinical in front of goal. Thats where Zlatan can take responsibility as hes had chances he really should be scoring (the goal line clearance against City, the one early against Stoke, the late one against Burnley).
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I'm confused as to what your point is to be honest.

Simply put in over half our games this season we haven't been particularly good going forward. What makes it worse is that a lot of the opposition have been really poor. Just work your way down the fixture list, it's indisputable.

If we're only talking recent performances for some reason then the last two games would be Everton and Zorya. Again we created very little.

I'm not a big fan of Zlatan but he's had a handful of games with chamces missed. They could be costly but it happens.

More concerning should be our overall attack and what Zlatans role is in that. Unless we're up against teams like Swansea it just doesn't function particularly well.
 
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@Dobbs Im not going to lie, I confused you with @Dante and the two points you were both making. I think its Dante that seems insistence he slows our attacking play down.

But overall, I think with regards to the chances created, I think once we get a settled team, it will benefit Zlatan more. I think weve been to inconsistent with who is going to be playing behind him (rotating is fine but not changing every game). But I agree, hes had a handful of games with missed chances, but I also think the biggest mistake we had was not having another striker to use off the bench (especially when Rashford was starting out wide).
 
He scored some amazing long range goals for PSG last season. Would like to see him do it for us too!
 
Fracture90 said:
Rader pointless to argue anything regarding Zlatan's performances with you.
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Sure, it would be pointless if you were dumb enough to only look at my screen name while completely disregarding what I'm saying.
I've said countless times that I'm biased but not to the point of complete stupidity like some people on the opposite side of the fence (and that goes for those who bash a lot of other players in the squad as well). I've criticized Zlatan quite a bit from time to time and have never once argued that he shouldn't have scored more goals, or even performed better on the whole for that matter.

But none of that is relevant because AFAIK I was talking about your assessment of the word sitter, not what I think of Zlatan's performance, but nice try to change the subject I guess..

I don't care if it's Zlatan being served on a plate by Pogba or if it's Jones on a crazy solo run, a sitter is a sitter in either case and looking at what you've said you seem to believe that a sitter is something along the lines of a semi-decent chance to shoot the ball towards the goal, which I think pretty much everyone everywhere will disagree with.
I am still far less biased than you are towards Zlatan because unlike you I can still make an argument that's in line with reality, and every time he's doing something good I don't feel the need to point it out to everyone over and over again.
 
Zlaatan said:
Sure, it would be pointless if you were dumb enough to only look at my screen name while completely disregarding what I'm saying.
I've said countless times that I'm biased but not to the point of complete stupidity like some people on the opposite side of the fence (and that goes for those who bash a lot of other players in the squad as well). I've criticized Zlatan quite a bit from time to time and have never once argued that he shouldn't have scored more goals, or even performed better on the whole for that matter.

But none of that is relevant because AFAIK I was talking about your assessment of the word sitter, not what I think of Zlatan's performance, but nice try to change the subject I guess..

I don't care if it's Zlatan being served on a plate by Pogba or if it's Jones on a crazy solo run, a sitter is a sitter in either case and looking at what you've said you seem to believe that a sitter is something along the lines of a semi-decent chance to shoot the ball towards the goal, which I think pretty much everyone everywhere will disagree with.
I am still far less biased than you are towards Zlatan because unlike you I can still make an argument that's in line with reality, and every time he's doing something good I don't feel the need to point it out to everyone over and over again.
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Just proves my point. As i said go back and rewatch all them games in which he had great chances and didn't score, count them and come back.

While you're at it, just out of curiosity tell me how did you see his performance yesterday prior to him scoring?
 
Ban said:
"Sure, he scores, but his all round play is crap." posts incoming.
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The irony. I remember when Rooney was doing this and everyone was shitting on him.

Either way I don't get why people think it is laughable to complain about him. He's getting the goals but surely everyone can agree he has missed some terrible sitters this season?
 
Fracture90 said:
Just proves my point. As i said go back and rewatch all them games in which he had great chances and didn't score, count them and come back.

While you're at it, just out of curiosity tell me how did you see his performance yesterday prior to him scoring?
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You haven't the foggiest what a "sitter" is, think he's missed like 3 sitters max all season.

His performance in the first half was poor, as was Rooney, Pogba and some others too, think they really struggled with the icey pitch and were under instruction to play a high risk passing game.

His second half was decent.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
EVERYONE has agreed that he had a spell of missing some great chances, EVERYONE.

How many terrible "sitters" has he missed in your opinion @shamans
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I didn't read the whole thread but replied because saw a few green smileys in reference to people criticizing him.

I can't count but quite a few important ones. Overall I feel Zlatan has been just okay-ish. We definitely need either a new red hot striker or for Martial to get back in form and play the role. I don't think Zlatan is good enough for us to win the premier league/compete in the champions league but for our current level he is alright.
 
shamans said:
I didn't read the whole thread but replied because saw a few green smileys in reference to people criticizing him.

I can't count but quite a few important ones. Overall I feel Zlatan has been just okay-ish. We definitely need either a new red hot striker or for Martial to get back in form and play the role. I don't think Zlatan is good enough for us to win the premier league/compete in the champions league but for our current level he is alright.
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No wonder there's green smilies, it's early December and this guy who is new to the league has 13 in 19 starts for us, and you think he's been "ok-ish".
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
No wonder there's green smilies, it's early December and this guy who is new to the league has 13 in 19 starts for us, and you think he's been "ok-ish".
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Yep, I do. I think the goal return masks his performances for sure. I would not say he has been better than "okay-ish". My opinion - I want to see us get a different kind of striker.
 
shamans said:
Yep, I do. I think the goal return masks his performances for sure. I would not say he has been better than "okay-ish". My opinion - I want to see us get a different kind of striker.
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Let me guess? One with pace?

Seems all the posters who don't like Zlatan so much are seriously pace-horney.

Lots of goals "masking" a lone striker's performance is a new one to me.
 
He's been one of our best players this season. In the games he didn't score for example Leicester, Stoke, Burnley he was having very good games with his all round play. To already have 13 goals is even better, some of these goals are hard to score but people rather remember the "sitters" he missed.

He will be here next season and thank feck for that.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Let me guess? One with pace?

Seems all the posters who don't like Zlatan so much are seriously pace-horney.

Lots of goals "masking" a lone striker's performance is a new one to me.
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Not only pace. Someone reliable. Zlatan is strong and can score good goals but I (so far) don't feel reliability from him. Someone who will not miss any chances at all in front of goal. An well you learn somethign new all the time don't you.
 
I just saw in a Swedish newspaper that Zlatan is saying "EL is killing me". He supposedly said: "These thursday nights are killing us and especially me."
 
shamans said:
The irony. I remember when Rooney was doing this and everyone was shitting on him.

Either way I don't get why people think it is laughable to complain about him. He's getting the goals but surely everyone can agree he has missed some terrible sitters this season?
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He has but criticism has been OTT. especially since he's really scoring regulary.
 
Fracture90 said:
Just proves my point. As i said go back and rewatch all them games in which he had great chances and didn't score, count them and come back.

While you're at it, just out of curiosity tell me how did you see his performance yesterday prior to him scoring?
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What?... Me saying that you are trying to change/avoid the subject at hand by having a go at me instead of explaining what you think a sitter is, is proving your point?
What point?
Again, I was talking about your definition of sitters and since you haven't even tried to address that you haven't even made a point yet.
You are way off here mate.
Even with my Fracture-tinted glasses on I can't count 10-15 missed sitters.. That top number is almost one sitter per start, and unless you have a seriously flawed view on what a sitter is that number is absurd, period.
Also, are you aware that no player in the world scores every sitter they get? Not one. The City - Chelsea game alone proved that point beyond doubt.

What I thought of him prior to his goal? Do you mean the first 89min of the game?..
I thought he was pretty poor, that game was probably in his bottom 5 performances at United, and a goal that secures the win when the game is over doesnt change his overall performance IMO.
My average rating for him is lower than the average caf rating btw, 5.8 to 5.9. Though I haven't voted in all games.
 
Janson said:
I just saw in a Swedish newspaper that Zlatan is saying "EL is killing me". He supposedly said: "These thursday nights are killing us and especially me."
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What is the difference in terms of physical impact on a player you'll get though from playing in the EL, compared to the CL? Absolutely nothing.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
1 less day of rest @Summit ? So after a long cold trip to Ukraine you've got just 2 days before you play Spurs.

Thought that was obvious? With the CL you get 3 or 4 days before your next game.
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Eh? If you play CL on Tuesday, then you have had two days rest from your game on Saturday? How is it obvious?

Arsenal played on Saturday last week, and Tuesday in the CL this week. How is that any different at all?

City played on Wednesday, and played again today. 2 days rest.

Where is this extra day you are on about?
 
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Summit said:
Eh? If you play CL on Tuesday, then you have had two days rest from your game on Saturday? How is it obvious?
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I get your point but let me break it down @Summit.

Summit said:
Arsenal played on Saturday last week, and Tuesday in the CL this week. How is that any different at all?
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Arsenal had over 3 days 30 minutes between those games and played just over the water in Belgium.

Summit said:
City played on Wednesday, and played again today. 2 days rest.
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City were at home and still had 2 days 19 hours between those games.

Summit said:
where is this extra day
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United were in Ukraine and have less hours than both of the above to "rest". (2 days 17 hours).
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I get your point but let me break it down @Summit.



Arsenal had over 3 days 30 minutes between those games and played just over the water in Belgium.



City were at home and still had 2 days 19 hours between those games.



United were in Ukraine and have less hours than both of the above to "rest". (2 days 17 hours).
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Arsenal played on Saturday last week and Tuesday this week, no? How did they have 3 days rest? They had two days rest. Sunday and Monday.

Your point about City being at home and United being in Ukraine is just luck of the draw mate really. We aren't always going to play in Russia.

I also love how you are using hours as well, when the fact is really it is no different to CL rest. Fact is if we play on Thursday, our next game will be on Sunday. Exactly the same as teams that play in the CL on Wednesday night, and then play again on Saturday.
 
Summit said:
Arsenal played on Saturday last week and Tuesday this week, no? How did they have 3 days rest? They had two days rest. Sunday and Monday.

Your point about City being at home and United being in Ukraine is just luck of the draw mate really. We aren't always going to play in Russia.

I also love how you are using hours as well, when the fact is really it is no different to CL rest. Fact is if we play on Thursday, our next game will be on Sunday. Exactly the same as teams that play in the CL on Wednesday night, and then play again on Saturday.
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Eh? The facts are Arsenal had over 72 hours between games, that's 3 days mate.

Just have a look yourself at the fixtures for City and Arsenal this season who are often getting 3 or 4 days rest after CL for the league.

United get 2.something days every single time. That's always been the penalty of being in the smaller comp.

And luck of the draw is wrong @Summit, if you play a CL game on Wednesday in the Ukraine you get a Sunday premier league game.
 
I stand by what I said. Playing on Thursday and Sunday, is no different than playing on Wednesday and Saturday. You could argue where your team travelled ect, but that is just luck of the draw. Any CL team can play in Russia too.
 
Summit said:
Oh ffs, you are really splitting hairs here. They had two sleeps, and two full days rest.

EDIT 3 sleeps including night after the game.
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Well I'm sure there's a study on recovery hours and those extra making some real difference but feck knows.

The main point here is, if you're in the CL you get pretty much 3 or 4 days rest between that and your next PL game. That isn't the case in the EL, it's the same 2.something every single time.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Well I'm sure there's a study on recovery hours and those extra making some real difference but feck knows.

The main point here is, if you're in the CL you get pretty much 3 or 4 days rest between that and your next PL game. That isn't the case in the EL, it's the same 2.something every single time.
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I disagree completely and for the sake of a few hours believe there wouldn't be any difference in physical impact on a player from playing Thurs/Sun, than there is playing Wed/Sat.
 
I think at such a high level of competitiveness where many outcomes are influenced by slim margins, even several hours of extra rest, or a shorter flight, etc can have an impact.

Not saying that it should an excuse, but I don't think we can discount the impact.
 
I would have loved the ball to Tim to get his first goal for us, but he took the right choice as a striker though, and it's more beneficial for us if he keeps his scoring run going.
 
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