An event that is heavily influenced by government policy like this is inherently political in nature. I don't see what's wrong with people making solid arguments as to how to prevent tragedies like this in the future, as in vain as those pleas may unfortunately be.
Yet another mass shooting and at a church, again
- Thread starter langster
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An event that is heavily influenced by government policy like this is inherently political in nature. I don't see what's wrong with people making solid arguments as to how to prevent tragedies like this in the future, as in vain as those pleas may unfortunately be.
There wasn’t. This rule only applies when it suits him. You’ll struggle to find any posts from him urging restraint and respect for the dead in the aftermath of the many threads about islamic terrorist attacks. Well, I say “struggle to find” but I know for a fact there aren’t any. I checked. His hypocrisy is there in plain view.
And for all his calls of not politicising this event, as far as I'm aware pretty much every single post of his in this thread has been a politically-motivated criticism of people approaching it from a political angle. Meaning he's doing the exact same thing he's criticising other people of doing.
This is pretty surreal. They've turned it into a game called 'Agree to Disagree' and the hosts are smiling and laughing about it.
Perhaps not loud enough in that case.
Not sure either, but I would think with the type of people involved, none of them are members of the NRA. Problem is, the NRA is against any kind of tough gun control laws which may prevent lunatics getting hands on guns so easily. Some of these lunatics have weapons collections that would put many countries armies to shame.
We don’t have to talk about Texas. We can still talk about Vegas or Orlando, which in those cases, stirs up the same argument that reasonable people are conveying — there needs to be sensible laws to greatly increase the chances of preventing another one of these tragedies. And laws like these can be backed up by working examples from around the world. So where someone like you sees others as politicizing the incident, most of the developed world see it as bringing about a solution to save lives. Why worry about the nuances of respect for the dead when there ways to respect the living by letting them live?
Fighting the government is an idiotic point to make for miltias/2nd amendment supporters.
1) It's highly, highly, HIGHLY unlikely that was the actual intended purpose of the 2nd amendment by those who injected it into the constitution. First, they actually disliked militias. Their intent was certainly not, "Let's allow these ragtag ill-disciplined shitlords to shoot up the government". The only time militias have actually been used to good effect in the entire history of the country, was when Washington sent militias to shoot up, what we today would call "sovereign citizens" in the Whiskey Rebellion. Ironically, the very type of people the modern militia movement revolves around, were the very people militias were used against in the ONLY instance in American history where militias were actually successful. As it turned out, these "sovereign citizens" that staged the whiskey rebellion, threw down their arms and surrendered the moment the militias arrived.
2) Even if there was some intent for militias to "regulate" the government, as silly as that concept is, that regulation ended with industrialization. It's one thing for a band of irregulars armed with musket and flintlocks and other relatively primitive weapons to engage government forces in an irregular manner, when both sides are largely using the same weapons. It's another entirely when the height of military technology that these militia groups are going to be using, are assault rifles, military surplus style WW1 era machine guns, bootleg explosives, and ghetto off the shelf drones. What happens if there is ever a real armed militia insurrection? National guard F16's are going to drop JDAMS on them from 20-30k feet. Predator and Global Hawk drones are going to light them up with hellfire ATGMs.
The REAL purpose of the 2nd amendment, was really, to protect the country from domestic threats, to serve as sort of a pre-cursor national guard, and more importantly, as a levy against FOREIGN threats.
The founding fathers had such a low opinion of militias, that it's hard to really state it without hyperbole. Washington himself in his dispatches said he loathed the militias, and on one occasion threatened to start slashing them down mid battle because they were retreating, refusing to fight, and wouldn't get off the road which was hampering the regulars from using it.
They mistrusted gouvernments, but they mistrusted standing armies even more. The sole purpose of the second amendment was to have militias ready to fight foreign invaders, everything else is bullshit.
That's not true. In many threads like that on the Westminster Bridge attack you'll find that posters who introduced early speculation or discussion about the politics of the incident were reprimanded. In the immediate aftermath the thread was to be devoted solely to a discussion of what happened.
Aaaaaah that's were you are coming from. Yes, there is a rule here against spreading rumours about political or racial backgrounds of attacks before there are any hard facts. That hasn't happened here though. The greater picture was and is discussed and I'm sure you know that difference. Well at least I hope.
Has anyone here put forward the idea that this guy was a far-right-left-communist terroist out there to shoot children-women-elderly-christians whatever? No. What was discussed here was how it is possible for such shootings to happen so frequently in general.
Yes, as cannon fodder until real armies could be raised and trained.
The myth that the American Militia defeated the British is absurd. Not saying you subscribe to it, but it was the regular army that Washington demanded from the continental congress, that wintered at valley forge and was trained up by zee Germans that beat the British, not the pig farmers that ran from virtually every fight, and or surrendered.
Yet this is the first thread where you choose to reprimand anyone. Go figure.
Haven't denied this. But the notion that the purpose of militias was in any way to have something ready o fight the gouvernment itself is completely vid of any factual basis. It was just an accepted solution to deny the gouvernment a standing army to surpress the populace, even though everyone knew militias are shit.
Also, although Americans don't like to hear it, it wasn't the Americans who beat the British at all, it was the French, Spanish and Dutch. Without them, we might not have ever seen the US of A. They fought the war and they won it. Americans just constantly got their asses kicked while others drained the British resources.
The continental army held its own and won its fair share. The militias did absolutely nothing, and actively hindered the regular army.
I wasn't insinuating you didn't know that, I was just adding historical facts to support the position we both were espousing.
Lastly, it wasn't so much the activity of the French/Spanish/Dutch, as it was the threat to India that they posed. The colonies were small potatoes for the British compared to India, and the British threw only a small % of their potential resources into the Revolutionary war, because they didn't want to weaken their position in India where all the money actually came from. Had the British valued the colonies more, Canada would be a lot bigger today.
You seem to have missed my second sentence. Political discussion of any kind was discouraged. There was no exception made for political argument that Cafe liberals happen to approve of.
It wasn't only India. It was the west indies, it was Gibraltar, it was all the colonies. The British lost this war on sea, their only war which they ever lost on sea. They just couldn't support the colonies anymore at some point. India was actually a huge success for them, this was gave them the opportunity to completely nullify French presence there. But they weren't able to fight all the European powers against them combined everywhere.
Bullshit. Absolute and utter bullshit. Never existed. You just want it so you can use it when it suits you.
The best way to respect the dead, who died in such an unnecessary way, would be to take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. Nothing is more disrespectful than absolving those whose greed and cowardice make it so easy for this to occur in the first place. And that reaction should be immediate, or else you let the anger fade, and each time it grows less memorable and we continue to accept it as the status quo.
But that's just me.
Sky News just saying that an 18 month old baby died too. What in the actual fcuk... I think I'm going to stop keeping up with current events now.
Pardon the expression, but jesus christ these people are out of their minds.
You can't lose what you've never had.
Also, just reposting this because you seem to have missed (ignored because it shows you up for what you are) @Pogue Mahone's post:
I've removed the post link from the quote just in case you have him on ignore.
Your double standards are plain to see for everyone, you just don't want it pointing out how your political allies push agendas that lead to countless deaths.
You are, unsurprisingly, lying.
The discussion in that thread was being bogged down by rednev et al banging on and on about Islam and Muslims. They were asked to keep their shit out of it whilst people were trying to keep up to date with a live ongoing situation.
They were also told they were more than welcome to start a new thread discussing their issues, just not to keep disrupting that one.
If you can't see the difference there and here then you're either being disingenuous or just fecking dumb.
I think a good argument can be made that much of Trump's ideas come from this show. He live-tweets it virtually every morning
I was sucked into this dispute on the back of one short post, humourously noting that the Cafe, after half a dozen expressions of cursory sympathy for the victims, immediately descended into a denunciation of the usual bogeymen, and a rehash of the usual political obloquy, obviously far more satisfying to the thread's inhabitants than any consideration of the dead and injured, nothing more than hopelessly backward, religious rednecks anyway.
All the rest was forced upon me. The current affairs forum is a predominantly left-wing environment. That's okay by me. I don't want to reform the Cafe or lecture it.
Oh piss off.
Yeah, saw that it was atrocious..... "Toddler Elsie Scully-Hicks suffered a bleed on the brain, a skull fracture and damaged ribs before her death in May 2016, The little girl went to live with Matthew Scully-Hicks and his husband in September 2015, eight months before she died".
They adopted her, to abuse her during the 8 months she was with them.
The world keeps going mad.
You wield words like a rapier.
Don’t you get it Steve? This mentally ill person would have been able to shoot and kill whoever he wanted even without guns. He could have used a, I dunno, a cow or something and it would have been just as brutal. The key to helping mentally ill people is to giving them even more guns and making health care too expensive for them to get the help that they need...
You wield them like an out-of-work theatre actor.
Oh look, Will ignoring all the inconvenient facts.
That isn’t a politicisation of a topic. It’s a natural discourse in the aftermath which doesn’t ignore the dead but raises valid questions.
What did you expect? Him quoting your post and agreeing he is wrong?
I'd take him fecking off forever.
I saw that too, but I think they were talking about the shooting, unless I'm mistaken.
I though you were speaking about this one. Yes, in the shooting the youngest victim was 18 months old.
Bless.
When The Saints Of First Baptist Church Were Murdered, God Was Answering Their Prayers
Sometimes, God's will is done by allowing temporal evil to be the means through which he delivers us from eternal evil.
https://thefederalist.com/2017/11/06/saints-first-baptist-church-murdered-god-answering-prayers/
When The Saints Of First Baptist Church Were Murdered, God Was Answering Their Prayers
Sometimes, God's will is done by allowing temporal evil to be the means through which he delivers us from eternal evil.
https://thefederalist.com/2017/11/06/saints-first-baptist-church-murdered-god-answering-prayers/
Everything is God’s will. Absolute.