Yann M’Vila

Strange thing. Sometimes you hear that a player is supposed to be good, but every time you see him he is awful and it just end up being impossible seeing how the player actually can be good.
 
I didn't mean in quality cina, just in terms of what they bring to the team. With M'Vila's tenacity, energy, leadership and crisp short passing he'd be giving us a lot of what Fletcher gives us. Carrick still gives us the ability to spread the play and play incisive passing and would be a better partner for M'Vila.

At times in a three man midfield he's had Mandjeck play at the base of midfield and him as one of the slightly advanced two, taking shots, pulling out wide, carrying the ball forward, he's not simply a defensive midfielder.
 
Name Changed said:
Does he not play in a defensively minded role in front of the back 4? In the couple of matches that I have seen him, that's where he plays. That's Carrick's position.
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unless you play two there

we did this once or twice in the closing weeks of the season with Gibson playing alongside Carrick and it didn't really work because Gibson's shit

if we get someone who's not shit and can consistently pass the ball we might have another option
 
Would he be a significant upgrade on our ability to retain possession under pressure? An area where Fletcher is lacking to say the least.
 
Wes said:
unless you play two there

we did this once or twice in the closing weeks with Gibson playing alongside Carrick and it didn't really work because Gibson's shit

if we get someone who's not shit and can consistently pass the ball we might have another option
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If we are going to improve our midfield substantially, then Carrick needs to be replaced. Let's call a spade a spade. We need two midfielders realistically.

Carrick lets us down far too often when it really matters. Playing two defensive midfielders is really only going to work if you have another player who'll play in front and will do a lot of work plus add some imagination and creativity.

I highly doubt we will buy two midfielders, but if we did bring in M'Vila, I would be extremely surprised if he and Carrick ended up as the partnership.
 
Brwned said:
I didn't mean in quality cina, just in terms of what they bring to the team. With M'Vila's tenacity, energy, leadership and crisp short passing he'd be giving us a lot of what Fletcher gives us. Carrick still gives us the ability to spread the play and play incisive passing and would be a better partner for M'Vila.

At times in a three man midfield he's had Mandjeck play at the base of midfield and him as one of the slightly advanced two, taking shots, pulling out wide, carrying the ball forward, he's not simply a defensive midfielder.
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I'd go along with this certainly. He would be a very good partner for Carrick and potentially in the 3 man midfield with Anderson thrown in too.
 
I'd like us to sign him, it would be great to sign a player who would actually love to play for us, over a player that takes a load of convincing and is tempted by other clubs.
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Would he be a significant upgrade on our ability to retain possession under pressure? An area where Fletcher is lacking to say the least.
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He's no Xavi, Scholes or Fabregas I'll say that. Would you consider Essien a significant improvement in this aspect?

Name Changed said:
If we are going to improve our midfield substantially, then Carrick needs to be replaced. Let's call a spade a spade. We need two midfielders realistically.

Carrick lets us down far too often when it really matters. Playing two defensive midfielders is really only going to work if you have another player who'll play in front and will do a lot of work plus add some imagination and creativity.

I highly doubt we will buy two midfielders, but if we did bring in M'Vila, I would be extremely surprised if he and Carrick ended up as the partnership.
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If only we had a player like this, if only...
 
Maybe even that bloke with a hair transplant.
 
Yeah lets play our best attacker as a central midfielder. I don't think that's going to happen.
 
Name Changed said:
Yeah lets play our best attacker as a central midfielder. I don't think that's going to happen.
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I'm pretty sure that's not what's being suggested.

Everyone is crying out for a creative midfielder but all we need are two central midfielders who can win that ball and pass well, i.e. Carrick and M'Vila. Rooney should be our creative hub in the hole he plays in.
 
Name Changed said:
If we are going to improve our midfield substantially, then Carrick needs to be replaced. Let's call a spade a spade. We need two midfielders realistically.

Carrick lets us down far too often when it really matters. Playing two defensive midfielders is really only going to work if you have another player who'll play in front and will do a lot of work plus add some imagination and creativity.

I highly doubt we will buy two midfielders, but if we did bring in M'Vila, I would be extremely surprised if he and Carrick ended up as the partnership.
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I thought that this Carrick lets us down in critical situations statement would end after his end of season displays where he was brilliant against Chelsea thrice in month. Guess I was wrong.
 
KM said:
I thought that this Carrick lets us down in critical situations statement would end after his end of season displays where he was brilliant against Chelsea thrice in month. Guess I was wrong.
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Guess you missed the CL final and FA Cup semi so.

Nobody said he can't but in excellent performances sometimes, but he puts in a lot of stinkers which inevitably cost us big time.
 
cina said:
I'm pretty sure that's not what's being suggested.

Everyone is crying out for a creative midfielder but all we need are two central midfielders who can win that ball and pass well, i.e. Carrick and M'Vila. Rooney should be our creative hub in the hole he plays in.
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I think only United fans could watch their team score more goals than any other team in the league and decide we're not creative enough.

What we need is a bit more presence in midfield. Someone who can impose himself on the game and make sure we hold onto the ball when we have it and get it back quickly when we lose it. Basically, someone who can do what Fletcher and Anderson do when they're at their best. A competent well-rounded central midfielder. This M'Villa bloke sounds like he might fit the bill.
 
Name Changed said:
Guess you missed the CL final and FA Cup semi so.

Nobody said he can't but in excellent performances sometimes, but he puts in a lot of stinkers which inevitably cost us big time.
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Can you name a United player - other than central defenders - who doesn't?

In other words, are their specific players you have in mind who put Carrick to shame with their performances in the FA Cup semi and the CL final? Only I can't.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Can you name a United player - other than central defenders - who doesn't?

In other words, are their specific players you have in mind who put Carrick to shame with their performances in the FA Cup semi and the CL final? Only I can't.
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In my opinion, the only person who possibly has more stinkers is Evra, but that wouldn't be mentioned as much. All can have stinkers, but our central midfielders, and in particularly Carrick, put in more than most. There are numerous examples, there is no need to go through them all.

Not once did I say he can't put in excellent performances by the way.
 
Name Changed said:
Guess you missed the CL final and FA Cup semi so.

Nobody said he can't but in excellent performances sometimes, but he puts in a lot of stinkers which inevitably cost us big time.
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We could buy 100Mil worth of midfield talent and that feckers at Barcelona will most probably still out-play us. Poor, poor example that one.

Regarding that FA Cup semi too, players do make mistakes however I do think that he compensated well enough with his brilliant displays against Chelsea.
 
Brwned said:
He's no Xavi, Scholes or Fabregas I'll say that. Would you consider Essien a significant improvement in this aspect?



If only we had a player like this, if only...
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Not particularly but I don't feel we need a player like Essien as urgently as we need the ability to be composed and secure under pressure.

How many games did we lose because we didn't have a player like Essien?
 
cina said:
We had 1 player who wasn't shit in that game so that's a bad example. Incidentally, he's the player we're saying should be used as the creative player.
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Maybe he could be used as a creative player, but his role has developed into sitting in front of the back four and being a little creative from there. I have said previously that I think he has the ability to play further up the pitch and be more useful, but I cannot see him being played there by Ferguson. That's why I would be extremely surprised if M'Vila and Carrick ended up as the main partnership.
 
Name Changed said:
In my opinion, the only person who possibly has more stinkers is Evra, but that wouldn't be mentioned as much. All can have stinkers, but our central midfielders, and in particularly Carrick, put in more than most. There are numerous examples, there is no need to go through them all.

Not once did I say he can't put in excellent performances by the way.
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Rooney's first six months of the whole last season were a stinker. Fletcher had a stinker of last season. Nani had some absolute stinkers, so did Park and Hernandez. Giggs regularly has stinkers of matches. What's your point?
 
KM said:
We could buy 100Mil worth of midfield talent and that feckers at Barcelona will most probably still out-play us. Poor, poor example that one.

Regarding that FA Cup semi too, players do make mistakes however I do think that he compensated well enough with his brilliant displays against Chelsea.
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The Chelsea displays were on average very very good. But my point was that he has a lot of stinkers when it really matters, and it still stands. I never once said he can't play excellently. All our midfielders can have excellent games, including Anderson and even Gibson. It doesn't mean that they do it consistently enough or don't put in stinkers.
 
KM said:
Rooney's first six months of the whole last season were a stinker. Fletcher had a stinker of last season. Nani had some absolute stinkers, so did Park and Hernandez. Giggs regularly has stinkers of matches. What's your point?
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Not as many which was the point.
 
Name Changed said:
In my opinion, the only person who possibly has more stinkers is Evra, but that wouldn't be mentioned as much. All can have stinkers, but our central midfielders, and in particularly Carrick, put in more than most. There are numerous examples, there is no need to go through them all.

Not once did I say he can't put in excellent performances by the way.
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Couldn't disagree more.

Looking at our central midfielders in last season alone, I'd say Fletcher, Anderson and Gibson all had more stinkers than Carrick and none of them put in as good performance in big game as he did in the CL closing stages.
 
Name Changed said:
If we are going to improve our midfield substantially, then Carrick needs to be replaced. Let's call a spade a spade. We need two midfielders realistically.

Carrick lets us down far too often when it really matters.
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What the flying feck! Carrick did what??

I'm glad so many other posters have defended him because comment's like this are bizarre. We need a back up or a partner for Carrick. But not because he's in any way bad, not even close. But because we needs more quality since we lost Ginger.
 
Name Changed said:
Maybe he could be used as a creative player, but his role has developed into sitting in front of the back four and being a little creative from there. I have said previously that I think he has the ability to play further up the pitch and be more useful, but I cannot see him being played there by Ferguson. That's why I would be extremely surprised if M'Vila and Carrick ended up as the main partnership.
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Are you on about Rooney?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Couldn't disagree more.

Looking at our central midfielders in last season alone, I'd say Fletcher, Anderson and Gibson all had more stinkers than Carrick and none of them put in as good performance in big game as he did in the CL closing stages.
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You think Evra was good?

Fletcher was injured for the guts of half the season, put in some poor performances and some decent but didn't cost us in any big game. Anderson had a better season than Fletcher but I can't remember any big games where he simply disappeared. None of them are top quality and considering all the complaining you have done previously about it, I'm surprised you're arguing in favour of our never found great midfield.

At the highest level, which realistically is the CL final, we need better. I've defended the midfield enough in the past, but I can't anymore. A mini resurgence by Carrick in a few games is not going to drastically improve our midfield. If he put in consistently good performances, and Fletcher came in and got himself 100% and back to what he was doing previously, then we'd have a midfield.
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Not particularly but I don't feel we need a player like Essien as urgently as we need the ability to be composed and secure under pressure.

How many games did we lose because we didn't have a player like Essien?
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interesting question

I'd say we'd have been harder to play against away from home with Essien (for example) in the team.
I realise we didn't lose that many away from home, but I think we'd have won more
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Why has Fergie just given him a new 3 year contract then?
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He also gave Fletcher and Anderson ones, didn't he?

And if we believe that we are interested in the names that are being thrown around, M'Vila, Nasri, Modric and Sneijder for example, then surely that would show that Ferguson thinks we aren't strong enough in that department.
 
7even said:
What the flying feck! Carrick did what??

I'm glad so many other posters have defended him because comment's like this are bizarre. We need a back up or a partner for Carrick. But not because he's in any way bad, not even close. But because we needs more quality since we lost Ginger.
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I'm not going to list out performances as there are many many threads about it already.
 
Donkey's Ears said:
Not particularly but I don't feel we need a player like Essien as urgently as we need the ability to be composed and secure under pressure.

How many games did we lose because we didn't have a player like Essien?
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There's too ways of looking at that though - either we need someone to combat the pressure, stick their foot in and get a hold of the midfield through imposing their presence or calm the midfield with an assured touch and spread the play around. That's the part I don't really get in all these midfield discussions, people going back and forth saying 'we need an AM, just look how poor in possession we were against Barca', 'no, we need a DM, just look how we could barely get the ball back off them, duhhhh'.

As if there's one solution, one way to combat a problem. We buy multifunctional players for this very reason, we mould Anderson to play as a combative centre mid so that when we need to stick the foot in, we will, and when he needs to carry the ball and move the attack forward with incisive passing, he will. Just as we've done with Carrick as not simply a holder or a passer, but both.

Against Fulham, Bolton, West Brom, Villa, Birmingham and Wolves we had significantly more shots or possession but couldn't get maximum points. Does that tell you that we didn't stop them getting chances or put up enough of a fight in midfield, or that we didn't impose ourselves enough in possession and creatively? fecked if I know. Against Chelsea we had 10% more possession but half as many shots, did we not make enough of our time on the ball or did we not stop them from using it well enough?

Name Changed said:
Yeah lets play our best attacker as a central midfielder. I don't think that's going to happen.
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Since when did this player ahead of two more defensive midfielders need to be a centre mid? As long as we've got someone to link the defence and midfield - Carrick - and the midfield and attack - Rooney - then I don't see the problem. There's a whole host of players who played in behind the striker(s) and were the creative hubs, they didn't need to play as centre mids.
 
Name Changed said:
You think Evra was good?

Fletcher was injured for the guts of half the season, put in some poor performances and some decent but didn't cost us in any big game. Anderson had a better season than Fletcher but I can't remember any big games where he simply disappeared. None of them are top quality and considering all the complaining you have done previously about it, I'm surprised you're arguing in favour of our never found great midfield.

At the highest level, which realistically is the CL final, we need better. I've defended the midfield enough in the past, but I can't anymore. A mini resurgence by Carrick in a few games is not going to drastically improve our midfield. If he put in consistently good performances, and Fletcher came in and got himself 100% and back to what he was doing previously, then we'd have a midfield.
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That's because neither of them played well enough to get selected for big games.

Unlike Carrick, who was clearly above both of them in our midfield pecking order throughout last season. Which makes it all the more strange that you're singling him out as the player who let us down the most.
 
Name Changed said:
He also gave Fletcher and Anderson ones, didn't he?

And if we believe that we are interested in the names that are being thrown around, M'Vila, Nasri, Modric and Sneijder for example, then surely that would show that Ferguson thinks we aren't strong enough in that department.
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Not right now we're not, no.

With Gibson, Hargreaves and Scholes all leaving I'm sure Fergie wants to sign another central midfielder. That's no reflection on the central midfielders still at our club though.
 
Name Changed said:
He also gave Fletcher and Anderson ones, didn't he?

And if we believe that we are interested in the names that are being thrown around, M'Vila, Nasri, Modric and Sneijder for example, then surely that would show that Ferguson thinks we aren't strong enough in that department.
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Surely we can improve our midfield substantially without replacing Carrick?
 
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