No, that´s an exaggeration. Before we signed Bruno last season, we were still in touch of top 4, playing James, Pereira, Lingard and Mata. And if you take out Fernandes, we still have strengthen our squad since last year, with vdB, Cavani and Telles, and also Greenwood. In a run of a season, we would never be in bottom half, but probably still challenging for top 4.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Brilliant indeed. The end goal is to win major trophies and obvious questions marks if Ole can do it because he hasn't shown to do it before, obviously not include Molde. But let's not be so oblivious to the fact that United don't have enough quality nor consistent quality to win the league or CL. Possibly Europa League, but that's not what the standards are.
Rashford and Martial have to sustain but most likely improve off their 17 goals from last season, but more than that it was their improvement on their overall game and becoming most consistent. Marcus has been hot or cold, while Martial is in his worst form since at the club, probably. Greenwood wasn't going to be that clinical for his entire career, but he too has to have more to his game and consistency outside of goals. He's had a slow start to the season, but hopefully he can kick on.
And LVG’s United was a terrible fit right?
fecking crazy he could win 2 trophies in his first season and finish on 81 points the next then, especially as I keep getting told shit like that aint possible. I don’t know what to believe.
Joking aside, the team Jose left to Ole was absolutely miles better than the comically shit one he took over from LvG.
The thing about that is, just because you do something for a year, maybe two (Dele Alli for example), it's like their top class. You gotta back it up and develop consistency at a high level to be truly considered a top player. Marcus has done some awesome things as a player, but he hasn't put a full season together and then replicate near that level for at least a few seasons on the trot. Last year was his best scoring season, but it's not as if he's an out and out goal scorer.
And Son...come on. He has been a top player in the PL for a while now. Plus he was injured a few times last year too.
It's still too early to tell with anything in the PL, but 4th through 8th will probably be a difference of like 10 points come Feb/Mar. The player that Jose made "better", more like challenged him and he didn't wilt has been N'dombele. He's been good for them and is in and out of the starting XI for Lo Celso. But he's totally frozen out Alli like he tried for Martial, but there were no other players who could potentially assume any output by Martial in that Alli hasn't been the focal point of Spurs. It's always been Son, Kane, and a 3rd player like Eriksen, or during their CL run of Moura, now it looks like it's Berjwin.
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Haha, Jose extracted so much from a team it was crazy. It was a very functional and very workman like struggle to get those results and he knows what it takes to just get a result and gtf out. That's what he did and I didn't mind, totally was on board with what he was doing Jose.
But Jose is still a very good, top manager. Just that hey, he's working with better players at Spurs who he knows exactly what he is going to get out of and they're going to do what he specifically wants and needs to get results. That's the thing, while we can complain and question Ole and whether or not he'll make the right decisions for the team, on top of that...we don't really know what is going to happen with Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Pogba, etc throughout a game and a full campaign. It's probably not going to be good enough and it's going to be frustrating.
Ed's past mistakes have been hiring the wrong person, and then dithering to sack him.
For the people who back Ole, what gives the confidence that suddenly he is somehow avoiding those mistakes this time around?
For the people who back Ole, what gives the confidence that suddenly he is somehow avoiding those mistakes this time around?
Mates, we're running out of justifications for Ole other than he's already here. Yes, he's here, but we're not progressing and we're not looking like a squad that's on the cusp of progressing. The serious issues are when and who should replace Ole, not whether.
I don't enjoy writing these words as I really appreciate what Ole has done and would hate to see him get sacked, but it's evident now that we're stuck in a bad place, not getting worse but not really going anywhere either.
I don't enjoy writing these words as I really appreciate what Ole has done and would hate to see him get sacked, but it's evident now that we're stuck in a bad place, not getting worse but not really going anywhere either.
Based on past outcomes, it won't be the City game that hurts us.
It will be the Sheffield game that hurts us. Of course.
Anyone think he's not as positive and upbeat as he was before in his pressers?
It will be the Sheffield game that hurts us. Of course.
Anyone think he's not as positive and upbeat as he was before in his pressers?
A lot of fans at the time, including myself (as someone who is still Ole in, for context) said that while we wanted Ole to be appointed off the back of that incredible honeymoon run... that was our right as fans and that it was the clubs responsibility not to join the circle jerk unless they we’re absolutely convinced that Ole was objectively the best option.
Clearly the board did not do that and it is further evidence that the people in charge have no more clue than anyone on here. They’re just along for the ride like the rest of us and that is frightening.
What this club really misses post Fergie is the ability to get carried away, even if we signed a lad you’d never heard of, under SAF you trusted the man, you trusted the club and you could just relax and watch it all unfold. Now there is so much misery in this fan base, partly because many fans are trying to add a touch of restraint and reason to the club, when in truth that should be coming from the board.
With a good coach/manager we would be still in the CL, we have a good team is not a team to win the CL but was a team to go to the QF
Just a reminder that Ole got rid of Sanchez and is, by all appearances, slowly bringing our wage budget back from the brink. Jesse Lingard also phases out together with Lukaku, Rojo, Jones, Smalling, Perreira, Dalot, all players that needed phasing out. Progress is not just in the incomings and the results.
Son best PL tally under Poch was 14 goals. He need 4 more goals to match that number with 27 games left. You guys were comparing Rashford to him before Jose come and blow that comparison out. Some people saying Jose Mourinho didn't improve players are absolute troll , like it is possible for a manager having 25 major trophies and didn't improve players ? Does that mean he won all those trophies solely by his brilliant strategy and tactic , never because he also improve players ?The difference is Kane , Son and Ndombele accept to be improved while Rashford, Martial and Pogba refused because they and their fans thought they know better.
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I thought I'd read somewhere that they're better now without Ole.
People keep saying about the structure above the manager as you have here. And I know they aren't ideal but they have supplied Ole with more money than most managers, and we often look like a team without any semblance of direction or cohesion. When is that if it isn't already, down to the coaching.
Mourinho? 1/4 of season has gone and I wouldn’t celebrate yet. If Solskjaer played as Mourinho people would get crazy and demand sack because of lack of attacking football. People are never happy.
And the answer who this brilliant manager that would win every game for us is?
Like we never lost before. Even with best manager ever.
That is not true. Ability maybe. But not mentaly. VanGaal was on the way to build something. It might not have been the best football ever but we made misstake for sacking him in the middle of process.
Although I was happy that one of my favorite managers took over, it was misstake that we didn’t har VanGaal more time. Managers need time.
Oh definitely agree, it’s just worth the risk, as we are not making sufficient progress, it’s a lottery each week whether we are world class or a disaster. At least a manager with a tactical plan, and In game structure might properly move this squad forward into a competitive tactically astute team and not one that relies on Bruno bailing us out each week.
Few things to bear in mind, you dont win anything for being top of the league in December and we are a win against Burnley away from being two points of that lofty position ourselves but it still doesn't count for an awful lot.
Also what mourinho is doing at spurs isn't sustainable, people accuse Ole of being bailed out by Bruno, wait until Kane gets his standard injury and spurs stop scoring.
Oh there we go, i was waiting for the "Spurs just have a better team" spin to start. It's so predictable
Among the absolute nonsense being posted by some of the Ole out brigade the one thing they continue to not talk about is the bigger picture. If you think that it's just the manager thats holding this club back you've learned nothing from the last 8 years. Absolutey zero.
Unless we have a total refresh upstairs at the club removing Woodward and Judge I don't think it really matters who Is in charge. We will continue to be a top 4 chasing team who might compete for the odd domestic cup and Europa League trophy.
The sheer audacity to think that by simply employing Poch is going to make all these issues go away is among the most stupid things I have seen on this board. This senior management team have proven countless times they don't know what they're doing.
Nothing changes until Ed is sacked or moved back to controlling off the field issues only and Judge is sent his p45.
Unless we have a total refresh upstairs at the club removing Woodward and Judge I don't think it really matters who Is in charge. We will continue to be a top 4 chasing team who might compete for the odd domestic cup and Europa League trophy.
The sheer audacity to think that by simply employing Poch is going to make all these issues go away is among the most stupid things I have seen on this board. This senior management team have proven countless times they don't know what they're doing.
Nothing changes until Ed is sacked or moved back to controlling off the field issues only and Judge is sent his p45.
It has been said many times over and over again. 99% of those who want Ole out want Woodward and Judge moved on as well. It's an odd defence for Ole, considering it's absolutely not true.
What realistically we can change however is the manager, which will help us straight away on the pitch. Many managers have been successful despite what can be considered a mess in management in many clubs.
It's seriously mind boggling that United fans don't understand the importance of the managerial figure and its direct effect on our football side.
The owners are playing the game. They know with Ole that he will play youth, which suits them. Spend little and if you sell potentially make a big return. Ole causes little to no controversy. People are dreaming. I hope the players don't read these forums. Some people wouldn't even back us when we're winning never mind losing. Sucre we'll buy and buy big and have done but this covid period could see an end to that. I think p/x would be looked at with more interest.
There is no need to sack Ole. We all want to go back to how it was but it takes years to rebuild and these days it's harder to shift players and harder to bring them in.
There is no need to sack Ole. We all want to go back to how it was but it takes years to rebuild and these days it's harder to shift players and harder to bring them in.
Funny enough Ole has been one of our more expensive managers. Only had one full season and he's really pushing it in terms of spend. The glazers won't be so stupid as to not realise the worse a manager the more they'd have to spend. Ole has spent 200m all for top 4 and zero cup expectation. Might need a billion to be title favourites
His biggest backers like to say "we're one (insert unrealistic spending) summer from challenging, just need (insert half a team's worth) signings
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Ole's last derby match today (well, in Manchester anyhow). Let's hope he can pull something out of the bag.
Hes given de gea a massive 5 year contract and phil Jones a 5 year deal. Pereira, matic, mata also all got new deals.
If we lost 5-0 today he still wouldn’t get sacked. Let that sink in.
And you will still get half the fan base in here blaming everyone but the manager too.
Ole's last real test
Some people genuinely do seem to believe the board would sack Ole if he loses the next few but I just do not see it.
I said when Palace beat us on the opening day that I think we should keep Ole til the end of the season and then look to replace him with a manager that plays attacking front-foot football. That's still what I think will ultimately happen.
Ole IMO has taken us as far as he can but he has set up a decent young team for us which a more talented coach could really do well with.
If we could just modernise our shit by bringing in a DOF and a manager that can impose a clear attack minded way of playing football with this group, then I think we could have a very fruitful next few years to come, a lot of the ingredients are already there in terms of playing staff.
I said when Palace beat us on the opening day that I think we should keep Ole til the end of the season and then look to replace him with a manager that plays attacking front-foot football. That's still what I think will ultimately happen.
Ole IMO has taken us as far as he can but he has set up a decent young team for us which a more talented coach could really do well with.
If we could just modernise our shit by bringing in a DOF and a manager that can impose a clear attack minded way of playing football with this group, then I think we could have a very fruitful next few years to come, a lot of the ingredients are already there in terms of playing staff.
Waiting too long to sack Moyes, LVG and Jose has already wasted at least one and a half seasons worth of football. Time which could have been spent improving both the squad and the play, instead of waiting around for the inevitable. Utter utter waste. Shambolic.
And yet here we are again. More time being wasted. It seems plenty of people are happy to waste nearly three quarters of one season yet again waiting for the inevitable. And it really is the inevitable.
At which point that will be at least two seasons spent waiting to sack a manager whilst things were clearly not working. Ironic to think we are run by a man who, with a clear lack of footballing knowledge, supposedly knows how to run a business and maximise profit. Yet he can’t even get the thing he is supposed to be good at right. Forgetting that time is money.
If Poch is your man, and we’d have sacked our previous managers more promptly, we would have been in a position to snap him up as soon as Spurs released him. Or whoever your preferred candidate is, they could have already had a whole season, or even two, with the squad. And fewer seasons spent out of the Champions League (more money).
The time squandered is a scandal and utterly heartbreaking. Yet we continue on in the same broken pattern.
And yet here we are again. More time being wasted. It seems plenty of people are happy to waste nearly three quarters of one season yet again waiting for the inevitable. And it really is the inevitable.
At which point that will be at least two seasons spent waiting to sack a manager whilst things were clearly not working. Ironic to think we are run by a man who, with a clear lack of footballing knowledge, supposedly knows how to run a business and maximise profit. Yet he can’t even get the thing he is supposed to be good at right. Forgetting that time is money.
If Poch is your man, and we’d have sacked our previous managers more promptly, we would have been in a position to snap him up as soon as Spurs released him. Or whoever your preferred candidate is, they could have already had a whole season, or even two, with the squad. And fewer seasons spent out of the Champions League (more money).
The time squandered is a scandal and utterly heartbreaking. Yet we continue on in the same broken pattern.
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It would not be unanimous.
I think one thing that is very concerning is how many times we have started off as the worst team in matches. This period in games isn't even short; it consistently lasts between 45 and 60 minutes, and we have been quite lucky not to be punished severely for such poor starts. We have been saved by the opposition having lower quality finishers on too many occasions.
The Leipzig result, or something akin to it, has been coming for a while because the way we are playing is just not sustainable. You can also tell that some of the forwards are beginning to get frustrated; there are a few telling signs with Fernandes. I don't think we can afford for Fernandes to become too frustrated as it may affect his performances. Nobody is immune to frustration. At the moment, we are putting far too much pressure on our attack to make up for our poor starts.
Today could be a punishing day against Man City if we play as we have in the past few games. Our results have been very poor against the usual top six thus far, which is due to them having the finishers to punish us. We cannot afford to be slow out of the blocks again today, and it is something that Solskjaer has to sort out if we are going to accomplish anything this season.
We cannot slip behind too much; it will be far more difficult to recover a top-four position this season than last season. Chelsea and Tottenham are much stronger, and there is no guarantee that Leicester will have the same monumental collapse.
The Leipzig result, or something akin to it, has been coming for a while because the way we are playing is just not sustainable. You can also tell that some of the forwards are beginning to get frustrated; there are a few telling signs with Fernandes. I don't think we can afford for Fernandes to become too frustrated as it may affect his performances. Nobody is immune to frustration. At the moment, we are putting far too much pressure on our attack to make up for our poor starts.
Today could be a punishing day against Man City if we play as we have in the past few games. Our results have been very poor against the usual top six thus far, which is due to them having the finishers to punish us. We cannot afford to be slow out of the blocks again today, and it is something that Solskjaer has to sort out if we are going to accomplish anything this season.
We cannot slip behind too much; it will be far more difficult to recover a top-four position this season than last season. Chelsea and Tottenham are much stronger, and there is no guarantee that Leicester will have the same monumental collapse.
Depends how you see it and that you actually take into considiration how players fee have increased over years. For example Marseille won Champions League 1993 with a budget that is nowhere near budget of todays ManCIty. Does that mean Goethals is superior manager to lets say Guardiola?
In other word, you can't compare times and money.
Better team? If we had the Spurs back line and their midfield we'd be cursing Woodward. Our team is better than theirs in terms of talent and depth.
Then we have the likes of Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Mata, Bruno in attack. It's not that bad, probably one of the best in the league. Greenwood is like a £50-60m signing imo. What would Rashford be worth?
That Spurs defence was a joke recently, especially on here. Alderweireld past it, Aurier a clumsy player, Dier a joke. Now they're playing out of their skin since Jose arrived. No coincidence.
What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?
Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?
So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?
You're going to be disappointed then.
Oh the good old argument about how poor Ole can't be fault for anything since its the boards problem.
What do you see in our back line that is so much better than Spurs?
Same with midfield. Where does the arrogance come from that Fred, McTominay, Matic, Van de Beek are so much better than Sissoko, Winks, Lo Celso, Hojberg, Ndombele?
Arrogance? No, it just is. Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Shaw and Telles are much better options than they have. Fred, Matic, McTominay, Pogba, VDB & Bruno is far better than their midfield on paper. If we swapped defence and midfield then I'd be Ole In 100% with that squad.
Molde....you lucky bastards.
Our first 11 midfielders are Bruno and Pogba with Fred and VDB. Bruno and Pogba easily walk in their first 11.
Performances of players (in most cases) depend on coaching abilities of manager.
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