Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Leftback99]

Arrogance? No, it just is. Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Shaw and Telles are much better options than they have. Fred, Matic, McTominay, Pogba, VDB & Bruno is far better than their midfield on paper. If we swapped defence and midfield then I'd be Ole In 100% with that squad.

It's not though unless you rate Shaw and Lindelof far better than they have ever proven. Doherty, Aurier, Dier, Alderweireld, Sanchez, Davies, Reguilon, we're not 'much better' at all. Lloris is better than De Gea as well.

It boils down to Son and Kane vs Bruno and Rashford, the rest is debatable player for player.

 

[RashyForPM]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

Oh this nonsensical argument again. So for you, every failing manager deserves at least 6 seasons, 4 in Klopp’s case, to build a world class team? What if it never happens? Give Ole time until he retires?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Brilliant.

It’s the only difference between Ole and Fergie too in fairness.

Haha I want going to say the same. There’s a point when you’re writing something and surely you realise how stupid it is.

 

[90 + 5min]

Oh this nonsensical argument again. So for you, every failing manager deserves at least 6 seasons, 4 in Klopp’s case, to build a world class team? What if it never happens? Give Ole time until he retires?

Nobody that still think Solskjaer should be given time is saying he should be given time until he retires. There is always a red line..

But how do you know if someone is failing? What did you expect Solskjaer to do this season? Win CL? Won PL? Curious what you mean by failing?

Do you also expect any manager coming to ManUtd to win everything first year and if manager don't do that then sack them?

 

[AC1689]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

Oh the good old ‘Ole will eventually turn into Fergie’ chestnut.

If it was up to you then, presumably we’d still be giving Moyes or LVG the sufficient time to blossom into SAF. In fact, we’d probably have already won the title with Moyes. All he needed was time.

 

[lysglimt]

If we beat City today, OGS has to go!

 

[90 + 5min]

Oh the good old ‘Ole will eventually turn into Fergie’ chestnut.

If it was up to you then, presumably we’d still be giving Moyes or LVG the sufficient time to blossom into SAF. In fact, we’d probably have already won the title with Moyes. All he needed was time.

I'm not saying Solskjaer is Ferguson. I'm showing that you need time.

Louis VanGaal Yes. Moyes no.

 

[GiddyUp]

Son best PL tally under Poch was 14 goals. He need 4 more goals to match that number with 27 games left. You guys were comparing Rashford to him before Jose come and blow that comparison out. Some people saying Jose Mourinho didn't improve players are absolute troll , like it is possible for a manager having 25 major trophies and didn't improve players ? Does that mean he won all those trophies solely by his brilliant strategy and tactic , never because he also improve players ?The difference is Kane , Son and Ndombele accept to be improved while Rashford, Martial and Pogba refused because they and their fans thought they know better.

I've always got the feeling from our squad that a lot of our players (younger especially) thought that they've made it to the top and there's no need to do anything else. This was evident from Lingard's bullshit comment of being the top 0.09%.
The easy part is getting there. The real work comes from trying to stay there, being the best and improving. None of our players have really done that.

 

[RedBanker]

I'm not saying Solskjaer is Ferguson. I'm showing that you need time.

Louis VanGaal Yes. Moyes no.

Have you ever considered that we are in a different era now? It's the 2020's ffs. All that 80s 90s and 00s romanticism is dead and gone. Otherwise you would still have have Rijkaard at Barca, Ancelotti at Madrid, Jose at Chelsea, Benitez at Pool etc etc. Teams look to upgrade all the time. Even moderate success or winning a trophy is not a guarantee for a manager to continue for years together. But then again this has been done to death.

 

[anant]

Better team? If we had the Spurs back line and their midfield we'd be cursing Woodward. Our team is better than theirs in terms of talent and depth.

Then we have the likes of Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Mata, Bruno in attack. It's not that bad, probably one of the best in the league. Greenwood is like a £50-60m signing imo. What would Rashford be worth?

That Spurs defence was a joke recently, especially on here. Alderweireld past it, Aurier a clumsy player, Dier a joke. Now they're playing out of their skin since Jose arrived. No coincidence.

This is exactly the issue of our fans right now. The fact that we equate the player potential with player ability and expect a player to put in a performance that is expected of him at his peak at the age of 18-19.

Greenwood is a great player for a teenager, however, there is a lot of work he needs to do before he can be considered an elite player - decision making the most critical of them. If football were to end at the end of this season and there would be an auction for a one-off season, how much would Greenwood go for? Or rather, how many attackers will be auctioned before him? I'm certain, there will be atleast 10-15 attackers that'd go before him from PL itself - Cavani, Martial, Marcus, Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech(?), Son, Kane, Aguero, Jesus, KdB, Mahrez, Sterling, Salah, Mane, Grealish. And this is despite the Utd-bias here. Ask a neutral and the list might be longer.

Make no mistake, this isn't a piss-take on Greenwood, but Ole is being more harshly judged because we are looking into what the players can potentially do, instead of what the players are currently capable of doing.

 

[GiddyUp]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

Dumb comparisons buddy, you've been told that before. You are literally leaving out all the context. To compare Ole to SAF and what they were trying to achieve is ridiculous especially with the obstacles they had to overcome.

One last time for you. SAF was successful in Europe against the bona fide giants of the competition. He broke up the Old Firm monopoly with an unfancied team that he built from players who he highlighted to do the job. He also cut his teeth as assistant under the great Jock Stein (not sitting on a bench as a super sub).
He came in to a sleeping giant of a club in serious turmoil and all over the place. Drinking was rampant and most of the best footballing brains in the team suffered chronic injuries.
Football in the 80's was a much different beast than today's game, you would agree with that I'm sure. Domination of the league didn't come until he signed our talisman in Cantona and his image on the field in Keane. He built his squad from scratch, ruthlessly. All this under Martin Edwards. All this while trying to structure a squad to perform in Europe. He also sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in one window,a brave gamble that few would have the balls for because the man was a football visionary. Saying you know the "United way" and bottling it in cowardly fashion is galaxies away from taking that ethos/culture and revamping it through multiple squads and changes in the cyclical style of play that the game goes through.
He came to this club under no illusions of the difficulties he faced to take us back to the top after 20 years of shite including relegation. The man was the epitome of what it means to be United and demanded that from the owners right down to the 6 year old watching and understanding what he was seeing in his first match.

What are your reasons for comparing both apart from final league positions 30 years apart?

 

[Lee565]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

You seem to forget that both klopp and fergie had already proven their ability to produce success for clubs at a high level before joining either united or liverpool, what ole proved before joining united is that managing in a minnow league is his level to achieve success and don't say winning the Norwegian league is some achievement because even bloody steve McLaren was able to win the Dutch league which is far superior to the Norwegian one.

 

[Member 58925]

Hiring Poch or Nagelsmann or Rose or even Brentan fecking Rodgers is not a "lateral shift" from Ole.

Doesn't matter what your views are on any of them, they'd all represent a massive, massive step up. They would all get much more from our current squad of players. The key is picking the right one at the right moment (which we obviously will not do).

Facts and reality no longer have room in this thread.

 

[Foxbatt]

Dumb comparisons buddy, you've been told that before. You are literally leaving out all the context. To compare Ole to SAF and what they were trying to achieve is ridiculous especially with the obstacles they had to overcome.

One last time for you. SAF was successful in Europe against the bona fide giants of the competition. He broke up the Old Firm monopoly with an unfancied team that he built from players who he highlighted to do the job. He also cut his teeth as assistant under the great Jock Stein (not sitting on a bench as a super sub).
He came in to a sleeping giant of a club in serious turmoil and all over the place. Drinking was rampant and most of the best footballing brains in the team suffered chronic injuries.
Football in the 80's was a much different beast than today's game, you would agree with that I'm sure. Domination of the league didn't come until he signed our talisman in Cantona and his image on the field in Keane. He built his squad from scratch, ruthlessly. All this under Martin Edwards. All this while trying to structure a squad to perform in Europe. He also sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in one window,a brave gamble that few would have the balls for because the man was a football visionary. Saying you know the "United way" and bottling it in cowardly fashion is galaxies away from taking that ethos/culture and revamping it through multiple squads and changes in the cyclical style of play that the game goes through.
He came to this club under no illusions of the difficulties he faced to take us back to the top after 20 years of shite including relegation. The man was the epitome of what it means to be United and demanded that from the owners right down to the 6 year old watching and understanding what he was seeing in his first match.

What are your reasons for comparing both apart from final league positions 30 years apart?

I am sure that if Ole had won the EL with Molde or if he had managed in the Bundesliga or Serie A or La Liga and win these leagues he needs to be afforded plenty of time. Now I would say the same thing if we employ Poch. He needs to show progress from the last season and unless he does then in the end of the 2nd season he needs to go too.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Fair enough. What choices/alternatives would you list?

Well, a very basic poll would only have these two:

a) He was hired as part of a long-term plan

b) He was not hired as part of a long-term plan

 

[UnofficialDevil]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

Stop comparing Ole's to SAF, please stop.

It's not the same in any way.

Ole had already been managing for 10 years before we signed him and had not made any kind of reputation for himself as a manager, (was there a single United fan that wanted Ole as a manager before he took over as care taker? No. Was any other club after him? no.

On the contrary under Ferguson’s guidance Aberdeen experienced the greatest period of success in club history, winning three Scottish Premier Division title, four Scottish Cups, and a European Cup Winners’ cup.

Ferguson’s unprecedented achievements at Aberdeen led to managerial offers from some of the most prestigious clubs in Europe before he signed for us.

So no not the same in any way, SAF had earned the right to deserve lots of time and patience, Ole hasn't.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Nobody that still think Solskjaer should be given time is saying he should be given time until he retires. There is always a red line..

But how do you know if someone is failing? What did you expect Solskjaer to do this season? Win CL? Won PL? Curious what you mean by failing?

Do you also expect any manager coming to ManUtd to win everything first year and if manager don't do that then sack them?

With Ole it's not just been about whether he is failing or not. It's about whether he is good enough for us to win us trophies. What does Ole have in his CV that convinces people that he's good enough to take us to the top? And even if you forget about that and focus on his time here.. what has he achieved here to convince people that there aren't other potential candidates that can do better? It's simple Ole has nothing in his CV to show that he can take us places and has done nothing noteworthy in his time here to clear doubts that other potential coaches can't do better

 

[el3mel]

So we're done with comparing Ole with Klopp and now it's time to compare him to Fergie ? I swear these comparisons keep going in cycles. For few weeks it's Fergie then several weeks later it's Klopp again, so Fergie, then Klopp, and so on.

 

[AC1689]

Stop comparing Ole's to SAF, please stop.

It's not the same in any way.

Ole had already been managing for 10 years before we signed him and had not made any kind of reputation for himself as a manager, (was there a single United fan that wanted Ole as a manager before he took over as care taker? No. Was any other club after him? no.

On the contrary under Ferguson’s guidance Aberdeen experienced the greatest period of success in club history, winning three Scottish Premier Division title, four Scottish Cups, and a European Cup Winners’ cup.

Ferguson’s unprecedented achievements at Aberdeen led to managerial offers from some of the most prestigious clubs in Europe before he signed for us.

So no not the same in any way, SAF had earned the right to deserve lots of time and patience, Ole hasn't.

You wouldn’t even be having to have this argument, time and time again, if Ole had never played for us.

And that tells us everything we need to know about those in favour of keeping him on. It’s pure nepotism, for want of a better word. But then he’d never have been hired in the first place.

People would have gone utterly crazy at the prospect of hiring a manager with Ole’s CV. Norwegian league winner and Cardiff relegation. Molde arguably improved after he left for us too .

I even think that deep down, those staunchly defending him, know this too. And that then leads to this over compensating we see repeatedly where I think they’re trying to convince themselves, more than anybody else.

 

[GiddyUp]

I am sure that if Ole had won the EL with Molde or if he had managed in the Bundesliga or Serie A or La Liga and win these leagues he needs to be afforded plenty of time. Now I would say the same thing if we employ Poch. He needs to show progress from the last season and unless he does then in the end of the 2nd season he needs to go too.

I agree, but I do actually believe Poch achieved all he could with Spurs as a club and he has a much higher ceiling in his managerial capabilities. I saw enough at Spurs to think he may have another level or two in him especially in this league and under someone like Woodward. He would be my immediate choice unless the Glazers got rid of Ed and brought in Van Dar Saar.
We all want Ole to succeed but we are an inconsistent mess right now. You cannot plan ahead under those conditions because you don't know what signing will make you better. There is no style of play outside of individual moments on the counter. That will never win you a league or be sustained in a cup run.
We need a better caliber of manager to progress. There is no shame in saying so and it's not a slight on Ole's capabilities. It's just the way it is and it's the same with Martial. In my opinion he will never give us what we need to sustain a challenge on the league and we have a fair sample size to know this to be true, same with Ole. Without Bruno's contribution we are in relegation territory, that's down to Ole. In the pursuit of glory, especially in sports, you have to be ruthless and take those risks. Ole was a risk worth taking but he is no Pep.

 

[Foxbatt]

So we're done with comparing Ole with Klopp and now it's time to compare him to Fergie ? I swear these comparisons keep going in cycles. For few weeks it's Fergie then several weeks later it's Klopp again, so Fergie, then Klopp, and so on.

I am surprised that he has not been compared to Brian Clough, Sir Matt, Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley all combined into one.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You wouldn’t even be having to have this argument, time and time again, if Ole had never played for us.

And that tells us everything we need to know about those in favour of keeping him on. It’s pure nepotism, for want of a better word. But then he’d never have been hired in the first place.

People would have gone utterly crazy at the prospect of hiring a manager with Ole’s CV. Norwegian league winner and Cardiff relegation. Molde arguably improved after he left for us too .

Molde won the league while he was away relegating Cardiff, and when he returned he ended up 5th he's that good.

 

[edcunited1878]

People keep saying about the structure above the manager as you have here. And I know they aren't ideal but they have supplied Ole with more money than most managers, and we often look like a team without any semblance of direction or cohesion. When is that if it isn't already, down to the coaching.

The club has bought 5 first team players in two windows. Three were immediate first XI in Maguire and AWB and Bruno...forgot him James! James and VDB are aren't first XI players. Cavani is on a free and the two young players will not have a say until next year at the earliest so they weren't bought with the now in mind. That's not enough proper reinforcements considering you're relying on an unproven and inconsistent Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood who all just assumed a forward line role full time last season as the main guys.

And it's never been about spending the most rather than how it is spent.

Just because United go down a goal in games, why does that always get blamed on the manager? I agree that the coaching can be better and more experienced, but they aren't all so bad. I think there's some naivety amongst the coaching in terms of setting up the team not to concede or just keep it tight for them to get a point but few chances to win.

 

[lysglimt]

Molde won the league while he was away relegating Cardiff, and when he returned he ended up 5th he's that good.

If you are gonna try to use facts - at least get them correct.

 

[90 + 5min]

Have you ever considered that we are in a different era now? It's the 2020's ffs. All that 80s 90s and 00s romanticism is dead and gone. Otherwise you would still have have Rijkaard at Barca, Ancelotti at Madrid, Jose at Chelsea, Benitez at Pool etc etc. Teams look to upgrade all the time. Even moderate success or winning a trophy is not a guarantee for a manager to continue for years together. But then again this has been done to death.

That has nothing to to with giving managers time. You needed to give time back then. You need to give time now. Ofcourse not time without progress or success.

Dumb comparisons buddy, you've been told that before. You are literally leaving out all the context. To compare Ole to SAF and what they were trying to achieve is ridiculous especially with the obstacles they had to overcome.

One last time for you. SAF was successful in Europe against the bona fide giants of the competition. He broke up the Old Firm monopoly with an unfancied team that he built from players who he highlighted to do the job. He also cut his teeth as assistant under the great Jock Stein (not sitting on a bench as a super sub).
He came in to a sleeping giant of a club in serious turmoil and all over the place. Drinking was rampant and most of the best footballing brains in the team suffered chronic injuries.
Football in the 80's was a much different beast than today's game, you would agree with that I'm sure. Domination of the league didn't come until he signed our talisman in Cantona and his image on the field in Keane. He built his squad from scratch, ruthlessly. All this under Martin Edwards. All this while trying to structure a squad to perform in Europe. He also sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in one window,a brave gamble that few would have the balls for because the man was a football visionary. Saying you know the "United way" and bottling it in cowardly fashion is galaxies away from taking that ethos/culture and revamping it through multiple squads and changes in the cyclical style of play that the game goes through.
He came to this club under no illusions of the difficulties he faced to take us back to the top after 20 years of shite including relegation. The man was the epitome of what it means to be United and demanded that from the owners right down to the 6 year old watching and understanding what he was seeing in his first match.

What are your reasons for comparing both apart from final league positions 30 years apart?

I'm not comparing or even saying Solskjaer is Ferguson. Far from it. My point to the poster is that we gave Ferguson time. Even if there was a loud group that wanted him sacked and think he was saved by FA cup trophy. Did we sometimes wonder if we were doing right? Of course. But we were lucky it went how we hoped for. Managers need time. Football is no quick fix solution.

You seem to forget that both klopp and fergie had already proven their ability to produce success for clubs at a high level before joining either united or liverpool, what ole proved before joining united is that managing in a minnow league is his level to achieve success and don't say winning the Norwegian league is some achievement because even bloody steve McLaren was able to win the Dutch league which is far superior to the Norwegian one.

But did they get time? Did they won from first season?

Stop comparing Ole's to SAF, please stop.

It's not the same in any way.

Ole had already been managing for 10 years before we signed him and had not made any kind of reputation for himself as a manager, (was there a single United fan that wanted Ole as a manager before he took over as care taker? No. Was any other club after him? no.

On the contrary under Ferguson’s guidance Aberdeen experienced the greatest period of success in club history, winning three Scottish Premier Division title, four Scottish Cups, and a European Cup Winners’ cup.

Ferguson’s unprecedented achievements at Aberdeen led to managerial offers from some of the most prestigious clubs in Europe before he signed for us.

So no not the same in any way, SAF had earned the right to deserve lots of time and patience, Ole hasn't.

As I said. I'm not comparing Ferguson with Solskjaer in terms of ability. Nobody would or should. What I am saying that managers need time and took Ferguson as example that we gave him season after season and finally it did work. Have patience.

With Ole it's not just been about whether he is failing or not. It's about whether he is good enough for us to win us trophies. What does Ole have in his CV that convinces people that he's good enough to take us to the top? And even if you forget about that and focus on his time here.. what has he achieved here to convince people that there aren't other potential candidates that can do better? It's simple Ole has nothing in his CV to show that he can take us places and has done nothing noteworthy in his time here to clear doubts that other potential coaches can't do better

I really don't care what people have in their CV as long as they do things right and we see progress. Did Zidane have great CV? Guardiola before Barcelona?

I still see us making progress under Solskjaer and his staff. Surly there are better managers than Solskjaer. We had 2 of those before Solskjaer in vanGaal and Mourinho. It didn't went as we hoped for and having big CV isn't always guarantee for success. For now, for me, Solskjaer is right person. It can change. But for now.

 

[Shakesy]

Ole out? Yes. Is he our only problem? No. And that's a BIG no.

In fact, he is possibly one of our least serious problems. So, to keep on replacing managers will not fix this broken club. Stop deluding yourselves. There isn't a coach in the world who can fix United.

But, don't worry. He WILL be fired. And then the new manager will get some time to turn around this rudderless ship. And then another, and another. So many patsies... so little progress.

#1 Glazers out.
#2 Woodward out.
.
.
.
#9 Ole out.

 

[adamwest]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

What you're ignoring here is the 25 yr gap between the last season you've mentioned Fergie possibly being sacked and Klopp's start at Pool. I was 4 in 1992 so am not able to fully comprehend the situation we were in then... but you could see almost immediately the plan and ethos Klopp had when he took charge there. He transformed that Brendan team almost overnight and got them playing his way.

What is Ole's way? I don't see any plan or structure.

 

[edcunited1878]

Haha I want going to say the same. There’s a point when you’re writing something and surely you realise how stupid it is.

Thinking that the only difference in managers is winning trophies is far from the truth.

The point of it all is that Jose actually won with United, while Ole hasn't or isn't going to win. But both have gotten a lot of disrespect and crap flung their way when it is evident that there are still larger issues within the squad and the club.

What to do with Pogba. The lack of minimum quality and level of consistency from players. Issues that predate Ole and Jose.

The development of the squad has to come before the selection of the manager. By hiring 3 different managers in 6 years who have distinctly different views on how to play and what's expected of you.

The way United play under Ole is good enough to challenge for a top 4 position. But to take that next step and challenge for the league again, it's going to take 3 clear things. Better coaching from Ole or some of manager and staff. Better quality from at least one new position (CM or forward). And the current players who are mainstays like Maguire, McTominay, Rashford, Greenwood, AWB all have to improve their levels of consistency and performance.

 

[tomaldinho1]

What season would you have sacked Sir Alex Ferguson?
1986-1987 when we came 11th?
1987-1988 when we came 2nd?
1988-1989 when we came 11th?
1989-1990 when we came 13th but won FAcup?
1990-1991 when we came 6th?
1991-1992 when we came 2nd but won League Cup?

Or we can take Jurgen Klopp as a clear example that time needs to build something?

So, how many years or months or weeks do you give manager before you sack him?

For the millionth time - stop comparing managers who had already had top level success to Ole, you can't compare them. SAF won a European trophy (and a minor European trophy) with fecking Aberdeen and beat the Celtic/Rangers duopoly, Klopp usurped Bayern and also did incredibly well in Europe. Ole won two titles in the eliteserien and was sacked at Cardiff.

If a manager has a track record and you can see evidence of them building something, give them time and back them. If they have no track record and the team is not improving, they are sacked yesterday.

 

[Maluco]

He has already been embarrassed by Spurs, Palace, Istanbul this season and has had one of his collapses in the CL, resulting in an embarrassing CL exit, once again, contributing to the lowering of standards at this great club.

He can’t sustain any sort of consistency and games continue to be an absolute chaotic rollercoaster that lack any sense of control.

The CL exit was yet another collapse and a massive disappointment.

If he loses badly today, he should go. We are going nowhere and anybody who thinks we are, because we have the individuals to keep us in games, are kidding themselves.

It’s clear as day he isn’t cut out for top level management and we need to stop with sentiment and start to get real about the future of the club.

If your argument is about time, let’s give time to a proper coach with a history of building at least one cohesive, impressive side. Ferguson and Klopp had massively impressive successes behind them that supporters could point to and have faith that they were capable of building very good football teams.

Let’s not throw anymore time into something that’s just a pipe dream based on sentiment. He was saved by a genuinely world class player turning round his mess of a start last season.

Don’t kid yourself. Let’s do what’s best for the players and for the club.

 

[edcunited1878]

What you're ignoring here is the 25 yr gap between the last season you've mentioned Fergie possibly being sacked and Klopp's start at Pool. I was 4 in 1992 so am not able to fully comprehend the situation we were in then... but you could see almost immediately the plan and ethos Klopp had when he took charge there. He transformed that Brendan team almost overnight and got them playing his way.

What is Ole's way? I don't see any plan or structure.

Ole has a plan and that's Martial and Bruno pulling the strings to get into the final 3rd quickly with Rashford in behind. Or quick link ups around the box with players getting space to shoot from 1v1 positions. Plus the quick transitions in the middle of the park.

But most of the creativity is down to Bruno or the 10 position, which has been clear since the rotation of Lingard and Pereria early last season. It was a glaring hole at the time, next to the right forward position.

The plan works to varying effect just not very complex and that's just with the ball or in possession. The off ball tactics and shape to defend, gets away from the team too much.

 

[90 + 5min]

What you're ignoring here is the 25 yr gap between the last season you've mentioned Fergie possibly being sacked and Klopp's start at Pool. I was 4 in 1992 so am not able to fully comprehend the situation we were in then... but you could see almost immediately the plan and ethos Klopp had when he took charge there. He transformed that Brendan team almost overnight and got them playing his way.

What is Ole's way? I don't see any plan or structure.

Gladly I see. I still see progress and as long as I see it Solskjaer is right man for job.

Lets say that we sack Solskjaer and take some of RedCafe supermegagreat managers. If they don't win something 2 years later (but show progress), we will have this discussion again. Me telling that managers need time. Others telling sack, sack, sack.

For the millionth time - stop comparing managers who had already had top level success to Ole, you can't compare them. SAF won a European trophy (and a minor European trophy) with fecking Aberdeen and beat the Celtic/Rangers duopoly, Klopp usurped Bayern and also did incredibly well in Europe. Ole won two titles in the eliteserien and was sacked at Cardiff.

If a manager has a track record and you can see evidence of them building something, give them time and back them. If they have no track record and the team is not improving, they are sacked yesterday.

For the millionth time - nobody is comparing managers ability. Whatever they did in their previous clubs have nothing to do. If it did, why didn't we gave VanGaal more time? Because people were screaming around this place and everywere for change. Same now. People scream for change. People look after quick solutions. Managers need time.

 

[Member 58925]

That has nothing to to with giving managers time. You needed to give time back then. You need to give time now. Ofcourse not time without progress or success.


I'm not comparing or even saying Solskjaer is Ferguson. Far from it. My point to the poster is that we gave Ferguson time. Even if there was a loud group that wanted him sacked and think he was saved by FA cup trophy. Did we sometimes wonder if we were doing right? Of course. But we were lucky it went how we hoped for. Managers need time. Football is no quick fix solution.


But did they get time? Did they won from first season?


As I said. I'm not comparing Ferguson with Solskjaer in terms of ability. Nobody would or should. What I am saying that managers need time and took Ferguson as example that we gave him season after season and finally it did work. Have patience.


I really don't care what people have in their CV as long as they do things right and we see progress. Did Zidane have great CV? Guardiola before Barcelona?

I still see us making progress under Solskjaer and his staff. Surly there are better managers than Solskjaer. We had 2 of those before Solskjaer in vanGaal and Mourinho. It didn't went as we hoped for and having big CV isn't always guarantee for success. For now, for me, Solskjaer is right person. It can change. But for now.

Would you like to know what Pep and Zidane did their first season in charge or would you like to retract that ridiculous argument?

 

[90 + 5min]

Would you like to know what Pep and Zidane did their first season in charge or would you like to retract that ridiculous argument?

Who is talking about what they achived in Barcelona and Madrid? The talk was about having CV before their appointment. Or lack of CV.

If you don't know what is being discussed then just read from posts.

 

[AC1689]

Molde won the league while he was away relegating Cardiff, and when he returned he ended up 5th he's that good.

Near enough true. You couldn’t make it up could you .

It’s farcical and it’s no wonder we are currently the biggest laughing stock in English football, with every man and his dog who doesn’t support United wanting Ole to stay as long as possible. If that doesn’t signal the obvious, I don’t know what will.

 

[VP89]

I'm not sure I agree with Pogba starting today to be fair. It doesn't speak like a manager who is intent on creating an ethos of including players that want to play for the club. Hiring him was the biggest positive takeaway, that if you don't want to play you can leave with respect. Lukaku was shown the door, Alex is was shown the door, but he's just made a hash of the Pogba situation now.

I wonder what the likes of Bruno and VDB think of this. Players who bought into the image of the club, being bigger than any player. And then realizing that it's not really operated the same as how it used to be or how it was pitched to them.

 

[tomaldinho1]

For the millionth time - nobody is comparing managers ability. Whatever they did in their previous clubs have nothing to do. If it did, why didn't we gave VanGaal more time? Because people were screaming around this place and everywere for change. Same now. People scream for change. People look after quick solutions. Managers need time.

You literally just compared them both to Ole as examples of why we should give coaches time.

Your point on LVG makes no sense - he was hired BECAUSE of his reputation, philosophy and track record & given time because of this. We didn't hire Mou for his attacking football or affiliation to United, did we? We hired him because of what he did at his previous clubs. If we didn't take into account what managers had previously done, we could hire Glenn Roeder and by your logic give him time even if we don't improve.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's weak as piss management from Solskjear tbh. It would be one thing if Pogba had been incredible before hand, but he wasn't, he'd been shit and rightfully on the bench, so the fact he comes back in after having his agent bitch and moan doesn't sit great with me or send a great message.

Still, as a one off, we know what Pogba can do when he feels like it, so let's hope he feels he has a point to prove today.

 

[Idxomer]

I would like to live in this alternate universe where Ole+time is the next SAF, must be nice over there.

 

[Member 58925]

Who is talking about what they achived in Barcelona and Madrid? The talk was about having CV before their appointment. Or lack of CV.

If you don't know what is being discussed then just read from posts.

"as long as they do things right and we see progress"

Your words kid, not mine. You continue to embarrass yourself with baseless comparisons, and if you're not comparing, don't bring their names up.