Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[OleBoiii]

Do people genuinely believe a manager should be fired for ending 5th behind - let's say City, Liverpool, Chelsea (who spent £200 million) and one more team ? Especially if we improve in points total. What if we get 75 points, end 5th, 10 points behind winners Liverpool. Is that really a sackable performance ?

I think some posters want to avoid context and nuance because it makes it much harder to back their case. If you are Ole Out already now then it's in your interest to set a hard goal so that you don't look like a moron at the end of the season. It may also "force" others to agree with you. I've seen posters in here genuinely claim that failure to get top 2(!) means that Ole must be fired under all circumstances bar a CL win. Why? Because we got 3rd last year, so only 2nd or 1st can be considered an improvement.

The example above is based on some of the more extreme posters, but you can bet that a fair amount will want Ole sacked if he fails to get top 4, regardless of of context.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I disagree that he's behind schedule. If you look at Carlo Ancelotti at Everton and Marco Silva before him, you'll see how long it took Everton to start seeing the benefits of their transition - the best part of two full seasons and multiple players who have been brought in. If you actually look at Ole and what he's done with a squad that at the outset had so many holes within it, he's essentially condensed two seasons worth of transition into one. So if anything, he was ahead of schedule.

Ole has almost totally rebuilt his squad with little by way of purchases and the summer transfer window just gone has at best kept him stationary while those around him have improved their first XI and squad. In order to really progress, we needed a good summer transfer window to really kick on as third place was about as good as we were going to get with this team. That didn't happen, so I'd cut him some slack if we get top 4 more comfortably this season. If, however, we are still this inconsistent by Christmas this year, then a discussion should be had about his suitability as despite the squad's inadequacies, these are almost all his players who he has worked with for the best part of two years.

Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race.

Why is Ole the one manager who deserves to get proper backing? And to say he's had little backing couldn't be further than the truth. In 3 transfer windows he's spent more than 300m. Probably more than any other manager in world football in the same time frame.

I don't know how it works but I wouldn't be surprised if Ed gives the clubs transfer budget each window and from there Ole gives him a list of players he wants so what does Ole do? Spends a world record fee on Maquire, almost a record fee on AWB, almost 70m on Bruno and we still don't know how to pass the ball from midfield to our forwards. And you still think he will need another 300m+ to get the team functioning/fighting for titles?

I understand good players cost a lot of money but there are good deals out there instead of going for the most expensive more often than not. Alcantara, Jota, James Rodriguez, Ferran Torres, Thomas Party where all bought for under 50m, then you have players like Ruben Dias who cost a little more but was still 20m less than Maquire and I know who I'd prefer in my team.

To give the club credit, Telles was a good deal and on paper so was VDB but as its looking increasingly likely he was an Ed signing he's being totally misused.

So instead of giving an inexperienced manager in the top level almost 700m to see if he can be a success how about getting in an experienced one to put it all together. I'd be a lot more comfortable giving Pochettino this kind of money than I would Ole.

 

[tenpoless]

I understand when people try to paint it this way : "Ole should not be sacked if he finished 4th" because I don't think we have the squad to go all the way to finish 1st or 2nd. And if somehow we do, I'll be very happy. But I don't understand it when, let's say Pool, City or Chelsea lose a match people then use the results to justify that it's okay for us to lose too even if our game was winnable and the mistakes were on our part (against middle-lower table team, for example). I mean it happens everywhere, in competitive sport if your rival/opponent made a mistake that rarely occurs, you take advantage of it and instead of thinking "it's okay if i feck it up too because he/she's a good athlete and even he/she fecked up".

Based on that kind of point of view, it's okay for the team to never go above other teams and not make the best out of a very good situation. Essentially saying it's okay for us to be always below them and never grow, always within the shadow of other teams. It's not even related to whether Ole is a good manager or not, it's just a very weird point of view that I see being posted for so many times under Ole. Bad results are bad results, just because the teams above us did bad as well doesn't mean we did good and vice versa.

 

[Camilo]

I'm really not seeing any of the progress people talk about. I think the team has improved on paper certainly - we're much stronger than we've been in years - but I still don't see any real game plan. It's half arsed pressing, slow passing, same as it's been for years. Yes we've had some good European results, and that's worth something, but the way we don't impose ourselves on games is still irritatingly small time. We should be challenging this year, but we're 20%+ of the way into the season and looking average. I think we'll come good, because the team is good and Ole seems to have a good relationship with them, but it's a season where the title is up for grabs (ageing City, potentially hungover Liverpool) and it's like nobody in a United shirt has switched on yet.

Things will improve, and he'll get the season I'm sure, but if things continue to stagger along then he should be replaced early in 2021.

 

[rotherham_red]

Why is Ole the one manager who deserves to get proper backing? And to say he's had little backing couldn't be further than the truth. In 3 transfer windows he's spent more than 300m. Probably more than any other manager in world football in the same time frame.

I don't know how it works but I wouldn't be surprised if Ed gives the clubs transfer budget each window and from there Ole gives him a list of players he wants so what does Ole do? Spends a world record fee on Maquire, almost a record fee on AWB, almost 70m on Bruno and we still don't know how to pass the ball from midfield to our forwards. And you still think he will need another 300m+ to get the team functioning/fighting for titles?

I understand good players cost a lot of money but there are good deals out there instead of going for the most expensive more often than not. Alcantara, Jota, James Rodriguez, Ferran Torres, Thomas Party where all bought for under 50m, then you have players like Ruben Dias who cost a little more but was still 20m less than Maquire and I know who I'd prefer in my team.

To give the club credit, Telles was a good deal and on paper so was VDB but as its looking increasingly likely he was an Ed signing he's being totally misused.

So instead of giving an inexperienced manager in the top level almost 700m to see if he can be a success how about getting in an experienced one to put it all together. I'd be a lot more comfortable giving Pochettino this kind of money than I would Ole.

He hasn't spent £300m, it's been a tad over £260m (if you include the loan fee for Ighalo) and has had to let go of well over £100m worth of talent in the process, many of whom he has not been able to replace. Also, in that same time period, Madrid spent 350m euros in one summer just last year, so again, he hasn't spent the most out of everyone. Even in the league, Chelsea has spent more when you factor in the 90m that they paid last season to bring in Pulisic and turn Kovacic permanent. And I'm sure City outspent us with their signings this summer just gone as well.

Instead, he's worked on the players who were already here, many of whom were being written off by fans and the previous management alike. When he has bought players, they have tended to more often than not, work out and with the profile he's targeting, they tend to have a decent resale value if needed.

With the exception of Thiago, Partey, and maybe Jota, none of those players are players who I would have wanted coming in at the expense of the players we were targeting, and outside of the exceptions none of them would be first choice players, which is what we needed. I certainly wouldn't want Dias in any case.

Where has £700m come from? We only need 4 players - a RW, ST, DM, and CB. RW would likely cost £70m-80m, ST will see Haaland being the first choice, with a buyout clause being set at what, £63m?, DM will be likely in £50m range, and Upamecano will, according to the reports, be the main target - he has a £38m buyout clause. Add that to the £262m Ole has spent thus far, gives us a grand total of £493m. Which, is actually pretty good going when you consider Jose and LvG both spent smidge less EACH and we still had gaping holes all over the squad.

Also, I have to laugh at your suggestion that Poch should have the money - his transfer record isn't exactly any great shakes.

 

[rotherham_red]

I'm really not seeing any of the progress people talk about. I think the team has improved on paper certainly - we're much stronger than we've been in years - but I still don't see any real game plan. It's half arsed pressing, slow passing, same as it's been for years. Yes we've had some good European results, and that's worth something, but the way we don't impose ourselves on games is still irritatingly small time. We should be challenging this year, but we're 20%+ of the way into the season and looking average. I think we'll come good, because the team is good and Ole seems to have a good relationship with them, but it's a season where the title is up for grabs (ageing City, potentially hungover Liverpool) and it's like nobody in a United shirt has switched on yet.

Things will improve, and he'll get the season I'm sure, but if things continue to stagger along then he should be replaced early in 2021.

Compare the Frankenstein's monster of a squad we had when he first came in to the job, and compare it with what we have right now. Even in its current incomplete state, there is a coherence there that wasn't present under either of our previous world class managers. Ole had the brass tacks to actually go about dismantling a squad that was old and tired, and revitalised it into the youngest in the league, with only 3 signings initially.

Irrespective of what happens next, Ole has done a great job in rebuilding this squad and developing the likes of McTominay, Rashford, Martial, and bringing in AWB, Bruno, and Maguire. As well as bringing through and managing Greenwood and Williams. All of whom will be key parts of the squad moving forwards. And if Ole isn't the man to take us forwards, then the next man in will appreciate the tools that he has to work with (as long as he isn't an anti-football merchant or a pragmatist a la Allegri) which would not have been the case with the players Jose had left behind.

 

[TheDoc]

Do people genuinely believe a manager should be fired for ending 5th behind - let's say City, Liverpool, Chelsea (who spent £200 million) and one more team ? Especially if we improve in points total. What if we get 75 points, end 5th, 10 points behind winners Liverpool. Is that really a sackable performance ?

I actually believe Ole himself would find it impossible to defend, if we ended up outside the top-four, I'm pretty sure he too will expect getting fired then. I'm all for the guy, so far he's checked every mark with me and I feel this project is both a competitive and appealing enterprise, but if we regress position-wise from last season when we were a much weaker and less cohesive side than we are now, if we end up with mid-table performances and back down into the Europa League again despite the way healthier foundation we're building this year's campaign on...

I would find it extremely hard to argue against him leaving, regardless of context. In fact I doubt I'd even want to as I'm pretty sure us regressing back down there again would take a disastrous toll on morale, not just among supporters but also within the club itself. We could even end up losing some of our best players, and finding it hard to get quality replacements as well. This whole project I fear, will be dead if we don't keep it in the top-flight, because success doesn't just breed success it also necessitates it. Whether we want it to or not and no matter the circumstances, we'd need something fresh and new to get that positive vibe back and restore some of the faith if we suddenly fell short.

Ole's fault or not, irrelevant at that point as the rot would be setting in either way making it very hard for him to keep building. Therefore it's very important, extremely so even, that we don't fall short this season but instead cease this opportunity to solidify ourselves, securing this foundation we've already established. We can't lower our standards, if we slip chances are we won't just lose a season of progress we'll also lose all our momentum having to restart from way back where we were a year ago.

 

[Karlos PFC]

Also, I have to laugh at your suggestion that Poch should have the money - his transfer record isn't exactly any great shakes.

You should laugh at how Ole handled these 300m. He spent a good part of those 300m in a defender that can't head the ball in attacking set pieces, can't turn, can't run, is nowhere near quality-wise to be considered captain of Manchester United and demanded to play a high line up to the centre of the field.

I'd say Ole hasn't got a clue how to utilise these players and sure as hell he can't get the best out of Maguire which all in all it was his transfer.

 

[theklr]

Do people genuinely believe a manager should be fired for ending 5th behind - let's say City, Liverpool, Chelsea (who spent £200 million) and one more team ? Especially if we improve in points total. What if we get 75 points, end 5th, 10 points behind winners Liverpool. Is that really a sackable performance ?

Yes, i would say so.

The reason behind that abit of many things:

- We have in my eyes we the 3rd best squad (more or less tied with Chelsea) in PL
- Ole has spent ALOT of money since he came in. Without having the exact figues I think he is at least top 3
- United HAVE to reach Champions League consistently. Only possible excuse to not getting this now would be having a deep run in CL or a trophy.
- The way the team still not having the mental coaching to be unaffected by big wins or bad losses (e.g. consistency).

 

[MonkeysMagic]

Some of us (let's say the 41% ) have already worked out that, irrespective of the players, Ole's brand of football is archaic and not going to make us successful or win titles (3 losses in semis last season a case in point). Modern football has moved on and our current team is stuck in the past.

This is my only rationale for dispensing with Ole's services...its not whether we finish top 4 or seem to be showing 'progress' whatever that means! Now it appears that after 2 years of his management there is a level of wishful thinking by some that suddenly the penny will drop, we will buy a couple of players that will transform how the team plays a more modern successful brand of football. But that's all it is...wishful thinking! Its not based on any evidence of past 2 years and improvement in individuals or collective squad, and hence why ultimately Ole will be replaced.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ole and Ferguson were not the same. That was never what I said - Uniteds situation when the managers took over was very similar.

85/86 we looked on course to win the league until Robson got injured, but at the end of the season the ageing and injury-plagued squad began to show signs of cracking. We won 7, drew 6 and lost 8 of the last 21 matches.
Bailey was constantly injured, Albiston was approaching 30, Duxbury was injured a lot, Moran was getting old and was constantly injured. Olsen had a good season but was injured a lot, Strachan was approaching 30, Robson was injured a lot, Stapleton was 30.We only had 3 players who played more or less regularly that season - 2 of them were McGrath and Whiteside who werent exactly pillars of health, the last was Mark Hughes.

We started the next season even worse than we finished the last. Lost 6 of the first 8, and a few weeks later Atkinson was fired.

And this was almost exactly what happened in Mourinhos last full season. We started really strongly - and then we started to struggle a lot more at the end of the season. And several players showed signs of getting too old or being too tired - others looked unhappy with Mourinho and then next season we completely fell apart. And Mourinho was fired.

That is how and why a lot of managers get fired. Poch was in the CL final and in the CL spots and the next season things started badly and he got fired.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

He hasn't spent £300m, it's been a tad over £260m (if you include the loan fee for Ighalo) and has had to let go of well over £100m worth of talent in the process, many of whom he has not been able to replace. Also, in that same time period, Madrid spent 350m euros in one summer just last year, so again, he hasn't spent the most out of everyone. Even in the league, Chelsea has spent more when you factor in the 90m that they paid last season to bring in Pulisic and turn Kovacic permanent. And I'm sure City outspent us with their signings this summer just gone as well.

Instead, he's worked on the players who were already here, many of whom were being written off by fans and the previous management alike. When he has bought players, they have tended to more often than not, work out and with the profile he's targeting, they tend to have a decent resale value if needed.

With the exception of Thiago, Partey, and maybe Jota, none of those players are players who I would have wanted coming in at the expense of the players we were targeting, and outside of the exceptions none of them would be first choice players, which is what we needed. I certainly wouldn't want Dias in any case.

Where has £700m come from? We only need 4 players - a RW, ST, DM, and CB. RW would likely cost £70m-80m, ST will see Haaland being the first choice, with a buyout clause being set at what, £63m?, DM will be likely in £50m range, and Upamecano will, according to the reports, be the main target - he has a £38m buyout clause. Add that to the £262m Ole has spent thus far, gives us a grand total of £493m. Which, is actually pretty good going when you consider Jose and LvG both spent smidge less EACH and we still had gaping holes all over the squad.

Also, I have to laugh at your suggestion that Poch should have the money - his transfer record isn't exactly any great shakes.

With Ighalo it's just over 300m
Maquire 80m
AWB 50m
James 15?m
Bruno 68m
Summer 2020 75m

You mentioned we should of signed Grealish, Sancho, Upamecano and a very good DM out of those you're not getting a lot of change from another 300m, so maybe 700m is a bit high that I quoted when maybe 600m is more in the ball park.

I can't see the point giving a manager with no experience managing a top flight club 600+m to spend when we still can't transition midfield to attack after 2 years.

Why are you laughing about Poch? It's widely known Levy takes most of the control on transfers. Even if Pochetino had full control his most expensive signing would of been Ndombele at 50 odd million, Sanchez at 40m , Sissoko at 30 odd million and Son below 30m. All the rest are under 30m. Looking at those stats and seeing how well Spurs did under him don't you think him having almost full control and being able to sign a lot more expensive players would be better than depending on a rookie manager? Each to their own opinion but I certainly do.

 

[brzez]

That is how and why a lot of managers get fired. Poch was in the CL final and in the CL spots and the next season things started badly and he got fired.

Why do you keep trying to clown us? Do you think we’re stupid?
Tottenham fluked their way into the final, after having played shit football and winning 3 out of their last 12 PL games prior to that final. It’s not just as their bad performances happened overnight.

 

[Foxbatt]

Why do you keep trying to clown us? Do you think we’re stupid?
Tottenham fluked their way into the final, after having played shit football and winning 3 out of their last 12 PL games prior to that final. It’s not just as their bad performances happened overnight.

Just like we clowned our way to 3rd place last season then?

 

[brzez]

Just like we clowned our way to 3rd place last season then?

Clowned? Since the signing of Bruno we are third in terms of point achievement and that’s after this abysmal start. We were no1 in terms of PPG between February to the end of the season.

“But, but... But we only gained 66 points!! “

Yeah that’s right but we had idiots like Dan James, Lingard and Pereira running around until February. We had a 18 year old forward playing as a right winger, and Rashford, Pogba and Martial out injured for large portions of the season. If we had signed Bruno in the summer before and would’ve a injury free season to all of our key players, I guarantee you that we wouldn’t only have 66 points. Let’s say we would’ve got 75 points. Would you be happy or would you still whinge like a little child?

And comparing cup runs to league runs Jesus you and that poster James Peril should think about going into comedy.

 

[Bilbo]

Now it appears that after 2 years of his management there is a level of wishful thinking by some that suddenly the penny will drop, we will buy a couple of players that will transform how the team plays a more modern successful brand of football

Well we saw how much our level improved with Bruno's arrival. Granted that signing was filling the most necessary hole in this squad, but there is a common consensus amongst our fanbase about where else we need to strengthen, so if we get our recruitment right then the team will take another step

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Well we saw how much our level improved with Bruno's arrival. Granted that signing was filling the most necessary hole in this squad, but there is a common consensus amongst our fanbase about where else we need to strengthen, so if we get our recruitment right then the team will take another step

And there is the problem for me. I think Ole's limit is based on the quality of the squad. If we have the 3rd best team we will be 3rd or less. I don't think Ole will ever win the league unless we have a stronger team than City and Liverpool or basically the best team in the league. But thats not going to happen under this board. They will never get all the players Ole wants like they've shown already, the board will never get all the positions of priorities like they've shown already. We are run by an incompetent board so that means at best we take a step while our well run rivals takes two.

So if we want to win the league under this board and their current incompetence we will need a coach that can elevate us beyond our current capabilities. And Ole can't do that from what I've seen. It's not a dig at him though as not many coaches can do that.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Let's stop talking about players for a second.

Ole talked at the beginning about pressing high. Has he implemented a functional press? Fellow premier league manager Hassenhutl has shown that you don't need the best players in every position to have an aggressive, well implemented high press. So it's not a matter of players for Ole, but of implementation. I'd say no, he hasn't.

He talked about being the fittest team around, about always outrunning and outworking all our opponents. Have our fitness level been exemplary since then? Again, a manager like Poch has shown that you can top the fitness charts even at a smaller club with less quality players. And again, I'd say no, he hasn't managed to implement what he said.

He talked at the beginning about wanting to always play on the front foot and attack. Has he implemented that, or even shown that desire to take our game to the opposition consistently regardless of who we're playing? No, he seems to be a more reactive manager whose gameplan changes based on the opposition. He loves to sit back and counterattack, and though this isn't necessarily bad, it's contrary to what he said.

He talked about wanting the team to score more easy goals, tap ins. Have we consistently created such chances that we can score from? Do our players display the level of movement and decision making that facilitates the creation and execution of these types of goals. No, we rarely score tap ins, and our play in the final third looks laboured and off the cuff. And although one might want to lay the blame on the players' decision making, Ole did also say that he'd teach the strikers how to score these goals. So either every single one of the strikers has problems learning, or Ole's teaching methods are not carrying over.

This disconnect between what he says he wants, and what actually happens on the pitch, is what worries me. It seems he has the right ideas, but too often the implementation is left lacking, and with the way football is currently, we can't get back to the top without someone who knows how to implement these things. I'd consider a functional press and top level fitness basic requirements that do not need world beaters in every position. Those are the sorts of things which I can see and ascertain progress, and assume a higher level with better quality players.

The fact that Ole's most lauded progress is related to squad building, gives the feeling that someone with better ideas or better implementation of Ole's ideas will eventually be needed in order to take the next step. Unless of course, we buy enough high quality players to simply overwhelm the opposition. A feat which we have attempted a lot post Fergie, with limited success.

 

[VP89]

Clowned? Since the signing of Bruno we are third in terms of point achievement and that’s after this abysmal start. We were no1 in terms of PPG between February to the end of the season.

“But, but... But we only gained 66 points!! “

Yeah that’s right but we had idiots like Dan James, Lingard and Pereira running around until February. We had a 18 year old forward playing as a right winger, and Rashford, Pogba and Martial out injured for large portions of the season. If we had signed Bruno in the summer before and would’ve a injury free season to all of our key players, I guarantee you that we wouldn’t only have 66 points. Let’s say we would’ve got 75 points. Would you be happy or would you still whinge like a little child?

And comparing cup runs to league runs Jesus you and that poster James Peril should think about going into comedy.

Let's entertain this utter tripe of a post. Firstly Ole planned for his season, and he decided to let Lukaku go without an adequate replacement. But even if we ignore this, he had ample quality in his squad even noting Rashford and Martial injuries to do better than he did. He chronically underperformed against weaker sides in the league with less talent and your only rebuttle is that he had injuries? I mean fecking really?

He had a stronger squad to choose from than Palace, Everton, Southampton, Villa, etc. And lost points to all of these and more. And your best reason is because he had a few injuries? On your bike, honestly. The fact remains he had a high quality squad available to him over the course of the season, capable of better than 66 points. I don't care which way you try and slice it, these are the facts.

 

[Foxbatt]

Clowned? Since the signing of Bruno we are third in terms of point achievement and that’s after this abysmal start. We were no1 in terms of PPG between February to the end of the season.

“But, but... But we only gained 66 points!! “

Yeah that’s right but we had idiots like Dan James, Lingard and Pereira running around until February. We had a 18 year old forward playing as a right winger, and Rashford, Pogba and Martial out injured for large portions of the season. If we had signed Bruno in the summer before and would’ve a injury free season to all of our key players, I guarantee you that we wouldn’t only have 66 points. Let’s say we would’ve got 75 points. Would you be happy or would you still whinge like a little child?

And comparing cup runs to league runs Jesus you and that poster James Peril should think about going into comedy.

No one clowns their way to CL spots in the PL. No one clowns their way to the CL Final.
If Spurs clowned their way so did we.
Don't be a clown.

 

[el3mel]

Clowned? Since the signing of Bruno we are third in terms of point achievement and that’s after this abysmal start. We were no1 in terms of PPG between February to the end of the season.

“But, but... But we only gained 66 points!! “

Yeah that’s right but we had idiots like Dan James, Lingard and Pereira running around until February. We had a 18 year old forward playing as a right winger, and Rashford, Pogba and Martial out injured for large portions of the season. If we had signed Bruno in the summer before and would’ve a injury free season to all of our key players, I guarantee you that we wouldn’t only have 66 points. Let’s say we would’ve got 75 points. Would you be happy or would you still whinge like a little child?

And comparing cup runs to league runs Jesus you and that poster James Peril should think about going into comedy.

Saying Daniel James was an idiot hurts your credibility, considering a) he was Ole's signing and b)Everyone was praising him at this time.

 

[Foxbatt]

Saying Daniel James was an idiot hurts your credibility, considering a) he was Ole's signing and b)Everyone was praising him at this time.

So many new clowns around now el3. Better ignore them or you may die of laughter.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Let's stop talking about players for a second.

Ole talked at the beginning about pressing high. Has he implemented a functional press? Fellow premier league manager Hassenhutl has shown that you don't need the best players in every position to have an aggressive, well implemented high press. So it's not a matter of players for Ole, but of implementation. I'd say no, he hasn't.

He talked about being the fittest team around, about always outrunning and outworking all our opponents. Have our fitness level been exemplary since then? Again, a manager like Poch has shown that you can top the fitness charts even at a smaller club with less quality players. And again, I'd say no, he hasn't managed to implement what he said.

He talked at the beginning about wanting to always play on the front foot and attack. Has he implemented that, or even shown that desire to take our game to the opposition consistently regardless of who we're playing? No, he seems to be a more reactive manager whose gameplan changes based on the opposition. He loves to sit back and counterattack, and though this isn't necessarily bad, it's contrary to what he said.

He talked about wanting the team to score more easy goals, tap ins. Have we consistently created such chances that we can score from? Do our players display the level of movement and decision making that facilitates the creation and execution of these types of goals. No, we rarely score tap ins, and our play in the final third looks laboured and off the cuff. And although one might want to lay the blame on the players' decision making, Ole did also say that he'd teach the strikers how to score these goals. So either every single one of the strikers has problems learning, or Ole's teaching methods are not carrying over.

This disconnect between what he says he wants, and what actually happens on the pitch, is what worries me. It seems he has the right ideas, but too often the implementation is left lacking, and with the way football is currently, we can't get back to the top without someone who knows how to implement these things. I'd consider a functional press and top level fitness basic requirements that do not need world beaters in every position. Those are the sorts of things which I can see and ascertain progress, and assume a higher level with better quality players.

The fact that Ole's most lauded progress is related to squad building, gives the feeling that someone with better ideas or better implementation of Ole's ideas will eventually be needed in order to take the next step. Unless of course, we buy enough high quality players to simply overwhelm the opposition. A feat which we have attempted a lot post Fergie, with limited success.

Good post as I've said the same thing before. I remember there was a lot more emphasis from fans about our style of play when Ole first came in than there is now. I think it shows Ole's naivity as he came in talking about how United should play and always be on the front foot. I'll admit I'd rather watch us under Ole than our previous managers post Fergie but how we play is not what Ole envisioned for us and we have the players for that except a selected few like Awb who is ironically his signing

 

[wolvored]

Ole and Ferguson were not the same. That was never what I said - Uniteds situation when the managers took over was very similar.

85/86 we looked on course to win the league until Robson got injured, but at the end of the season the ageing and injury-plagued squad began to show signs of cracking. We won 7, drew 6 and lost 8 of the last 21 matches.
Bailey was constantly injured, Albiston was approaching 30, Duxbury was injured a lot, Moran was getting old and was constantly injured. Olsen had a good season but was injured a lot, Strachan was approaching 30, Robson was injured a lot, Stapleton was 30.We only had 3 players who played more or less regularly that season - 2 of them were McGrath and Whiteside who werent exactly pillars of health, the last was Mark Hughes.

We started the next season even worse than we finished the last. Lost 6 of the first 8, and a few weeks later Atkinson was fired.

And this was almost exactly what happened in Mourinhos last full season. We started really strongly - and then we started to struggle a lot more at the end of the season. And several players showed signs of getting too old or being too tired - others looked unhappy with Mourinho and then next season we completely fell apart. And Mourinho was fired.

If we had have won the league in 85/86 then Fergie would never have been manager. Big Ron would have had all the plaudits. We won the first 10/10 that season, yet we couldnt keep it up.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Good post as I've said the same thing before. I remember there was a lot more emphasis from fans about our style of play when Ole first came in than there is now. I think it shows Ole's naivity as he came in talking about how United should play and always be on the front foot. I'll admit I'd rather watch us under Ole than our previous managers post Fergie but how we play is not what Ole envisioned for us and we have the players for that except a selected few like Awb who is ironically his signing

Yup, it's an interesting read going back and looking at our requirements for Ole at the very start.

The goalposts have definitely shifted, but that can't be helped as we're simply fans, not experts. What's worrisome is when after so much time, the actual expert is still struggling to implement what he publicly stated he plans to do with the team. Things which can't be blamed on player quality.

 

[brzez]

Let's entertain this utter tripe of a post. Firstly Ole planned for his season, and he decided to let Lukaku go without an adequate replacement. But even if we ignore this, he had ample quality in his squad even noting Rashford and Martial injuries to do better than he did. He chronically underperformed against weaker sides in the league with less talent and your only rebuttle is that he had injuries? I mean fecking really?

He had a stronger squad to choose from than Palace, Everton, Southampton, Villa, etc. And lost points to all of these and more. And your best reason is because he had a few injuries? On your bike, honestly. The fact remains he had a high quality squad available to him over the course of the season, capable of better than 66 points. I don't care which way you try and slice it, these are the facts.

You don't know whether Ole wanted to sign an another striker or not. Are you in that boardroom? Do you have access and knowledge to which players he wants? You don't know and I don't know. So please, take off your tin hat and discuss facts.

"Ample quality." James, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Young are not players that should be near our first XI.

What I find funny, and it's probably just a coincidence, is that I remember all of your highlighted games very well. I can't link the highlights but there are available on Youtube, so have a look for yourself.

ALL of those games we could and should've won. And if we would've won them people like you would've less to whinge about. But we didn't but we should of won them according to the xG stats, but key moments in the game, due to low quality of players, we didn't strike on these opportunites and that made our opponents grow into the games. And 2-3 howlers by de Gea in those fixtures, especially when the team is low on confidence didn't help.

United vs Crystal Palace 1-2
xG 2.24 (+1pen) - 0.68

Southampton vs United 1-1
xG 0.77 - 1.90

United vs Aston Villa 2-2
xG 1.85 - 1.30

United vs Everton 1-1
xG 1.48 - 0.28

Saying Daniel James was an idiot hurts your credibility, considering a) he was Ole's signing and b)Everyone was praising him at this time.

Do you really think that everything that is done within a club is the managers responsibility? Oh ffs. Watch football documentaries like the ones on Sunderland and Tottenham and you'll see how a club is run. "Mourinhos" january signings 2020, see for yourself how they're signed, but you seem to think that coaches have an inbuilt FM-database in their head, telling them information about every football player that exists in the world. They get the friggin name on their office table, with a scouting report, along with the words ''we can probably get him," do you want him? And the coach nays och yays. Most of the signings are done by other than the coaches.

 

[pocco]

And I am shocked thats the conclusion you have reached after reading those replies.

If we end 8th or 9th - fine!

But what if we end 5th with 72 points ? Should he be sacked then ? Chances are - there will be a lot of clubs that will end around 65-75 points this season - as Liverpool and City will get a lot less points than last season, while a few of the teams at the bottom look a lot worse than most other teams. This means it will be a race for top-4 where there are 6-7 very good teams fighting for the positions.

Do people genuinely believe a manager should be fired for ending 5th behind - let's say City, Liverpool, Chelsea (who spent £200 million) and one more team ? Especially if we improve in points total. What if we get 75 points, end 5th, 10 points behind winners Liverpool. Is that really a sackable performance ?

I think some posters want to avoid context and nuance because it makes it much harder to back their case. If you are Ole Out already now then it's in your interest to set a hard goal so that you don't look like a moron at the end of the season. It may also "force" others to agree with you. I've seen posters in here genuinely claim that failure to get top 2(!) means that Ole must be fired under all circumstances bar a CL win. Why? Because we got 3rd last year, so only 2nd or 1st can be considered an improvement.

The example above is based on some of the more extreme posters, but you can bet that a fair amount will want Ole sacked if he fails to get top 4, regardless of of context.

Doesn't it work both ways though? People pointed to 66 points not representing any progress last season, whilst the argument against that was "So what, we got top 4".

Also people are equally lowering expectations to not look like morons. I've seen people talking about him being safe even if we don't get top 4, which has been the barometer all along. Why should that change now? The only reason is to keep Ole in the job.

 

[Bilbo]

And there is the problem for me. I think Ole's limit is based on the quality of the squad

Applies to every team. Its a stick that's always used to beat Ole and its not a fair criticism.

 

[Bilbo]

Let's stop talking about players for a second.

Ole talked at the beginning about pressing high. Has he implemented a functional press? Fellow premier league manager Hassenhutl has shown that you don't need the best players in every position to have an aggressive, well implemented high press. So it's not a matter of players for Ole, but of implementation. I'd say no, he hasn't.

He talked about being the fittest team around, about always outrunning and outworking all our opponents. Have our fitness level been exemplary since then? Again, a manager like Poch has shown that you can top the fitness charts even at a smaller club with less quality players. And again, I'd say no, he hasn't managed to implement what he said.

He talked at the beginning about wanting to always play on the front foot and attack. Has he implemented that, or even shown that desire to take our game to the opposition consistently regardless of who we're playing? No, he seems to be a more reactive manager whose gameplan changes based on the opposition. He loves to sit back and counterattack, and though this isn't necessarily bad, it's contrary to what he said.

He talked about wanting the team to score more easy goals, tap ins. Have we consistently created such chances that we can score from? Do our players display the level of movement and decision making that facilitates the creation and execution of these types of goals. No, we rarely score tap ins, and our play in the final third looks laboured and off the cuff. And although one might want to lay the blame on the players' decision making, Ole did also say that he'd teach the strikers how to score these goals. So either every single one of the strikers has problems learning, or Ole's teaching methods are not carrying over.

This disconnect between what he says he wants, and what actually happens on the pitch, is what worries me. It seems he has the right ideas, but too often the implementation is left lacking, and with the way football is currently, we can't get back to the top without someone who knows how to implement these things. I'd consider a functional press and top level fitness basic requirements that do not need world beaters in every position. Those are the sorts of things which I can see and ascertain progress, and assume a higher level with better quality players.

The fact that Ole's most lauded progress is related to squad building, gives the feeling that someone with better ideas or better implementation of Ole's ideas will eventually be needed in order to take the next step. Unless of course, we buy enough high quality players to simply overwhelm the opposition. A feat which we have attempted a lot post Fergie, with limited success.

This is a good post, and for the most part I would agree with a lot of what you have said. This exposes the naivety of a manager coming in to a big club and stating that 'this is what i am going to achieve' before you really know what you have.

Nobody does that, and for good reason. Stating that your team needs to be fitter is fine. Thats a crucial requirement of every team. Tactically though, its unwise to make public comments as you only create a rod for your own back. Managers go into the transfer market because they cant get what they want out of what they have.

I dont believe that our fitness is something to be concerned about. I do agree that we are average at best at offensively pressing, but i also dont think that you have to be to be a successful football team.

However, good post. Something for the Ole outers to feed on.

 

[mattsville]

I'm really not seeing any of the progress people talk about. I think the team has improved on paper certainly - we're much stronger than we've been in years - but I still don't see any real game plan. It's half arsed pressing, slow passing, same as it's been for years. Yes we've had some good European results, and that's worth something, but the way we don't impose ourselves on games is still irritatingly small time. We should be challenging this year, but we're 20%+ of the way into the season and looking average. I think we'll come good, because the team is good and Ole seems to have a good relationship with them, but it's a season where the title is up for grabs (ageing City, potentially hungover Liverpool) and it's like nobody in a United shirt has switched on yet.

Things will improve, and he'll get the season I'm sure, but if things continue to stagger along then he should be replaced early in 2021.

I think that is a fair view, there is inconsistency in performance and execution of attack and it frustrates, then we are brilliant and smash teams, it is worth bearing in mind for many foaming at the mouth for Ole to be sacked that this is just the start of his 2nd full season and we have a very young team, a big thing for me is always body language and the players are putting in the effort granted with inconsistent results. The speed of passing needs to be more consistent and a default for any team in pursuit of dominating and doing damage to the opposition, we know from listening to Ole he wants this and there was a great passage of play after we conceded to everton that was nearly impossible to stop which was fluid, confident and resulted in Bruno's goal, so we CAN do it and the manager WANTS them to do it, consistency... again they are very young but that along with the manner of some of the goals recently was encouraging, Martial's goal in Turkey, Bruno's header, Rashford's attempted header (Bruno's 2nd) but that has been absent, players getting into good positions in the box, it's all there it is a case of having the patience to see it all come together.

 

[Anustart89]

Applies to every team. Its a stick that's always used to beat Ole and its not a fair criticism.

It doesn't though. Managers who should be coaching a club of United's stature shouldn't be limited by the sum of the parts. It's what sets a Fergie apart from a Moyes. Fergie had an aging squad and managed to make them champions while Moyes had pretty much the same squad (albeit a year older) and got 7th.

I mean, it's early days and all, but would you say that Southampton are anywhere near the top 8 squads in the league? Hassenhüttl has them playing great football and performing way better than their squad suggests they should be doing.

 

[el3mel]

Do you really think that everything that is done within a club is the managers responsibility? Oh ffs. Watch football documentaries like the ones on Sunderland and Tottenham and you'll see how a club is run. "Mourinhos" january signings 2020, see for yourself how they're signed, but you seem to think that coaches have an inbuilt FM-database in their head, telling them information about every football player that exists in the world. They get the friggin name on their office table, with a scouting report, along with the words ''we can probably get him," do you want him? And the coach nays och yays. Most of the signings are done by other than the coaches.

Ok, then Ole doesn't deserve any credit in Bruno's deal as well. It was the club's business and they saved him by such deal, going by this logic.

Or will you give him credit for good signings and blame the club for the ones that failed ? Because this hurts your credibility even more.

And also, I'm saying again at this period you were talking about, the majority here, even including me, were happy with James' performance and he wasn't considered an "idiot".

 

[VP89]

You don't know whether Ole wanted to sign an another striker or not. Are you in that boardroom? Do you have access and knowledge to which players he wants? You don't know and I don't know. So please, take off your tin hat and discuss facts.

"Ample quality." James, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Young are not players that should be near our first XI.

What I find funny, and it's probably just a coincidence, is that I remember all of your highlighted games very well. I can't link the highlights but there are available on Youtube, so have a look for yourself.

ALL of those games we could and should've won. And if we would've won them people like you would've less to whinge about. But we didn't but we should of won them according to the xG stats, but key moments in the game, due to low quality of players, we didn't strike on these opportunites and that made our opponents grow into the games. And 2-3 howlers by de Gea in those fixtures, especially when the team is low on confidence didn't help.

The truly hilarious feature of your post is that you point to 3 players to suggest Ole had a poor quality squad, which is an absolute joke. Mata start for any of the opponents I named (and others below the top 6), and my listed examples were all teams we fecked up against lower down the table. You conveniently ignore the fact that he had Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, Luke Shaw, Fred (who had a breakout season last season) and actually had one of Rashford or Martial fit for most of the season.

Of course he had ample quality to do better against the teams he dropped points against. To suggest otherwise is laughable, and to be frank, only a fool relies on XG alone to try and provide context to chronic dropped points. In any case, I've provided further context to your bizarre takes below:

United vs Crystal Palace 1-2
xG 2.24 (+1pen) - 0.68

Your reliance on XG is particularly odd. I mean, the ironic thing is that you complain about Ole being handicapped with injuries (even though he plays teams with worse talent), and then you try and navigate out of games where he actually had many star players at his disposal. Take this one, he had Rashford Pogba and Martial all starting. Moreover he said after the match that United would win 97 out of 100 for these types of games. Fast forward a season later, he's spanked 3-1.

And by the way - the player you love to shit on scored our only goal that game - Daniel James.

Southampton vs United 1-1
xG 0.77 - 1.90

Thanks for mentioning this as yet another example of us dropping points, but I was actually referring to the 2-2 result where we had Bruno, Greenwood, Pogba, Martial, Rashford all starting.

United vs Aston Villa 2-2
xG 1.85 - 1.30

Rashford + Martial both fit with Mata starting, a full strength defense and a tumescent performance against one of the relegation favourites

United vs Everton 1-1
xG 1.48 - 0.28

A game with both Rashford and Martial fit, where Everton's winner on another day could well have been allowed. Far from the thumping performance you are trying to suggest, and generally well below par.

There is a series of further examples of course, which is why he got 66 points which just isn't that good. I don't care if we got 3rd - our stars aligned that Chelsea were transfer banned, Arsenal sacked their manager mid season, Spurs sacked their manager mid seaosn, and Rodgers/Lampard were just kicking off their careers. The only thing 3rd place does for me is buy him some time to this season to show he can build on the performances. But no, we are now 2 years in with no established system, pattern of play, no material improvement in distance covered or pressing and an over reliance on key players to bail us out of games.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I cant speak for anyone else, but I suspect this is the position of the majority of people who back Ole. Its not a 'blindly back the manager' situation. He has to keep displaying progress, but there are different interpretations of what that progress might be.

Personally I think this does seem to be the consensus for most people who still want 'Ole in' and is proof he shouldn't be here. I do understand the viewpoint that it's worth giving a manager time when there is progress but it seems to me people are in one of two camps:

1. He is not good enough and there's no point waiting to hire a new manager
2. He is not good enough but is doing just enough to warrant some more time

Part of me thinks this all stems from the decision to appoint Mourinho. LVG was finally a coach with a completely different style, no United connections and there was a promise of this new dawn - when that failed we panicked and gave up. We signed a manager we knew was not the solution because we hoped he'd deliver a major trophy and threw money at him. When that failed, we changed tack again and essentially hired a club legend who had some minor league managerial experience. We basically stopped trying to do anything new or different after LVG & when you stop trying to innovate and move forward, you stagnate.

 

[Bilbo]

It doesn't though. Managers who should be coaching a club of United's stature shouldn't be limited by the sum of the parts. It's what sets a Fergie apart from a Moyes. Fergie had an aging squad and managed to make them champions while Moyes had pretty much the same squad (albeit a year older) and got 7th.

I mean, it's early days and all, but would you say that Southampton are anywhere near the top 8 squads in the league? Hassenhüttl has them playing great football and performing way better than their squad suggests they should be doing.

Ferguson wasn't ever a tactical mastermind. Very good obviously, but not a mastermind. He never did anything new in that regard. He was undoubtedly though a genius when it comes to man management. That's how he got his teams to perform better than the sum of their parts.

Hassenhuttl is doing a very good job there. Last season they finished 11th, which is about par or slightly better. They may well improve a couple of positions this season. Im not really sure what he has to do with any of this though, and i can't hide my surprise and admiration over how many of the posters on here suddenly seem to watch Southampton play every week.

 

[Bilbo]

Personally I think this does seem to be the consensus for most people who still want 'Ole in' and is proof he shouldn't be here. I do understand the viewpoint that it's worth giving a manager time when there is progress but it seems to me people are in one of two camps:

1. He is not good enough and there's no point waiting to hire a new manager
2. He is not good enough but is doing just enough to warrant some more time

Part of me thinks this all stems from the decision to appoint Mourinho. LVG was finally a coach with a completely different style, no United connections and there was a promise of this new dawn - when that failed we panicked and gave up. We signed a manager we knew was not the solution because we hoped he'd deliver a major trophy and threw money at him. When that failed, we changed tack again and essentially hired a club legend who had some minor league managerial experience. We basically stopped trying to do anything new or different after LVG & when you stop trying to innovate and move forward, you stagnate.

I'm not in either of those two camps, and just because so many forum posters keep plugging the not good enough line it doesn't mean its correct.

Saying that he has to keep displaying progress isn't unique to Ole. It applies to every manager at every club, and every manager we will ever hire in the future. This whole thing's getting boring now. One side will point out that we're 15th or whatever, and the other side will point out that he beat Tuchel, Nagelsmann and Ancelotti literally within the last few weeks alone. Its endless, and this thread will never, ever die.

One thing matters, and one thing only. As of right now, Woodward thinks he is good enough and he's the only person whose opinion is worth anything at all.

 

[brzez]

The truly hilarious feature of your post is that you point to 3 players to suggest Ole had a poor quality squad, which is an absolute joke. Mata start for any of the opponents I named (and others below the top 6), and my listed examples were all teams we fecked up against lower down the table. You conveniently ignore the fact that he had Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, Luke Shaw, Fred (who had a breakout season last season) and actually had one of Rashford or Martial fit for most of the season.

Of course he had ample quality to do better against the teams he dropped points against. To suggest otherwise is laughable, and to be frank, only a fool relies on XG alone to try and provide context to chronic dropped points. In any case, I've provided further context to your bizarre takes below:

Your reliance on XG is particularly odd. I mean, the ironic thing is that you complain about Ole being handicapped with injuries (even though he plays teams with worse talent), and then you try and navigate out of games where he actually had many star players at his disposal. Take this one, he had Rashford Pogba and Martial all starting. Moreover he said after the match that United would win 97 out of 100 for these types of games. Fast forward a season later, he's spanked 3-1.

And by the way - the player you love to shit on scored our only goal that game - Daniel James.

Thanks for mentioning this as yet another example of us dropping points, but I was actually referring to the 2-2 result where we had Bruno, Greenwood, Pogba, Martial, Rashford all starting.


Rashford + Martial both fit with Mata starting, a full strength defense and a tumescent performance against one of the relegation favourites


A game with both Rashford and Martial fit, where Everton's winner on another day could well have been allowed. Far from the thumping performance you are trying to suggest, and generally well below par.

There is a series of further examples of course, which is why he got 66 points which just isn't that good. I don't care if we got 3rd - our stars aligned that Chelsea were transfer banned, Arsenal sacked their manager mid season, Spurs sacked their manager mid seaosn, and Rodgers/Lampard were just kicking off their careers. The only thing 3rd place does for me is buy him some time to this season to show he can build on the performances. But no, we are now 2 years in with no established system, pattern of play, no material improvement in distance covered or pressing and an over reliance on key players to bail us out of games.

So yeah, I didn’t claim that the performances were fantastic, I claimed that they were well enough to secure 3 pts. But the players didn’t score and defensively they conceded silly goals. Or do you think that it’s Oles lack of “patterns of play” that allowed Crystal Palace to score a winner, a shot that a little child would save? Or is it Oles fault that Lindelöf can’t win an aerial duel against Ayew? Is it Oles fault that when de Gea jumps up to grab the ball, DCL (I think) pushes him into the net and the ball steers off Lindelöf and in.

But listen, I do really understand how you, other fans and even pundits feel about Ole. I’m aware about the tactical cycle now, about the things that are popular 2020, “the way of playing football.” But I’m sorry to disappoint you buddy, Ole will not make us play that way. He is not a coach that will make our players play like droid Germans or instruct his players how to scratch their balls. And whether you like it or not it’s up to you. As long as he gets results I’m happy. Personally I don’t care how the ball goes into the net, I don’t need to see the ball get passed into the net. I don’t care if he plays this “new term” low block high block or middle shit. As long as we win, I’m happy. And last season this team showed me that it can. And I’m happy with that, and with the new additions I’m expecting more progression this season. If it doesn’t look good till December, I’m happy to wish him well and then say farewell. But as of now, it does seem that people that works for him are happy and more than willingly to fight for him. And here we are, on a forum where a poster discusses that he’s not happy with a 3rd place because the points is not enough. Well, it’s enough to reach the Champions league

Ferguson wasn't ever a tactical mastermind. Very good obviously, but not a mastermind. He never did anything new in that regard. He was undoubtedly though a genius when it comes to man management. That's how he got his teams to perform better than the sum of their parts.

Exactly, and Ole have said that SAF is his biggest influence. So hmm

 

[hobbers]

Let's stop talking about players for a second.

Ole talked at the beginning about pressing high. Has he implemented a functional press? Fellow premier league manager Hassenhutl has shown that you don't need the best players in every position to have an aggressive, well implemented high press. So it's not a matter of players for Ole, but of implementation. I'd say no, he hasn't.

He talked about being the fittest team around, about always outrunning and outworking all our opponents. Have our fitness level been exemplary since then? Again, a manager like Poch has shown that you can top the fitness charts even at a smaller club with less quality players. And again, I'd say no, he hasn't managed to implement what he said.

He talked at the beginning about wanting to always play on the front foot and attack. Has he implemented that, or even shown that desire to take our game to the opposition consistently regardless of who we're playing? No, he seems to be a more reactive manager whose gameplan changes based on the opposition. He loves to sit back and counterattack, and though this isn't necessarily bad, it's contrary to what he said.

He talked about wanting the team to score more easy goals, tap ins. Have we consistently created such chances that we can score from? Do our players display the level of movement and decision making that facilitates the creation and execution of these types of goals. No, we rarely score tap ins, and our play in the final third looks laboured and off the cuff. And although one might want to lay the blame on the players' decision making, Ole did also say that he'd teach the strikers how to score these goals. So either every single one of the strikers has problems learning, or Ole's teaching methods are not carrying over.

This disconnect between what he says he wants, and what actually happens on the pitch, is what worries me. It seems he has the right ideas, but too often the implementation is left lacking, and with the way football is currently, we can't get back to the top without someone who knows how to implement these things. I'd consider a functional press and top level fitness basic requirements that do not need world beaters in every position. Those are the sorts of things which I can see and ascertain progress, and assume a higher level with better quality players.

The fact that Ole's most lauded progress is related to squad building, gives the feeling that someone with better ideas or better implementation of Ole's ideas will eventually be needed in order to take the next step. Unless of course, we buy enough high quality players to simply overwhelm the opposition. A feat which we have attempted a lot post Fergie, with limited success.

Top post this.

Poch came into Spurs and turned one of the laziest squads in the league, statistically, into the most hard working, in the space of less than a season.

Ole has actually almost done the opposite. For a lot of the worst defeats we've seen under Ole, the ones that have kicked up the most shit, a key feature of most of them is the shockingly low distance covered, starting with the 4-0 to Everton where they outran us to a comical degree.

Our pressing game is also even more disorganised than it was under Jose. And it was pretty poor back then.

 

[Foxbatt]

Ferguson wasn't ever a tactical mastermind. Very good obviously, but not a mastermind. He never did anything new in that regard. He was undoubtedly though a genius when it comes to man management. That's how he got his teams to perform better than the sum of their parts.

Hassenhuttl is doing a very good job there. Last season they finished 11th, which is about par or slightly better. They may well improve a couple of positions this season. Im not really sure what he has to do with any of this though, and i can't hide my surprise and admiration over how many of the posters on here suddenly seem to watch Southampton play every week.

Agree with you on SAF. But that is the great difference with SAF. A good boss employs the best people. He got very talented coaches to work under him. But when he was at Aberdeen he took the coaching himself. I am old enough to actually watching football when he played for Rangers. He was a CF who kicked the hell out of people a lot.

 

[theklr]

As long as we win, I’m happy.

Sums it up really - only way to objectivly rate Ole's success is if he gets us forward in terms of league and cup results/positioning, e.g. enough wins.

As probably many had said already , the caveat now is that Poch is available. If he werent I think more would stick by Ole.

I think some people tend to ignore the risk of getting in a new manager now in terms of changing our entire style of play, first XI and squad.

Even if the new manager would be "better" than Ole, he might not get better result than Ole this season just because everything will be anew.

And thats why the most sensible option in any case would be to at least wait until CL is mathematically impossible.

But again, Poch might not be available then, and thats why all the noise is amplifying.