Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Bilbo]

The patience part is an interesting one. If Ole had a progressive style I can guarantee you most people would be a lot more forgiving of bad days, I certainly would.
Unfortunately Ole style is a counterattacking/defensive one. Even more unfortunate for me is that our football committee has decided to give thumbs up to this style of football with two successive defensive managers.

I don't believe that Ole's style is counter-attacking. He is nowhere near as defensive as Mourinho was for us. Its an easy conclusion to reach because our team (like so many others) tends to perform better, and finds it easier to score goals, when we have more space in the opposition half.

What are the strengths of our team? We have an abundance of pace offensively, but not that much in the way of a physical presence, so it stands to reason that we do sometimes struggle against deep lying defences. We rarely score scruffy goals and we don't have a poacher. If I'm manager of this team you can be certain that I'll try to draw teams out to me so I can create that space behind, because that is what suits my players. Its not so much leaning on a particular style of play. Its just a sensible strategy. In fact its the only strategy - a manager that doesn't try to influence a match to suit his teams strengths does not belong at this level.

Now the counter argument to that would be 'but this is the team Ole has built' and that is true to an extent, but it doesn't take into account the choices that Ole is making. Look at what he is trying to do in the market. The majority of his big targets have been players that give us something different. He wants strikers with a physical presence (Haaland, Cavani), but that are also comfortable with the ball at their feet (ie - not Lukaku). Full backs that are offensively strong (Reguilon, Telles). Offensive players that can link the team and make those cute passes to unlock defences (Sancho, VDB). None of this describes a manager that is wedded to one single style of play. These are choices made by someone who wants to have options in the way that we play.

It isn't just in the market where we see his attempts to be flexible, its tactically too. He plays Mata, despite his obvious physical limitations, because he is the best option we have to make our offence less predictable. A counter attacking manager NEVER uses Mata - he offers nothing there - you'd pick Dan James every week. He tries to get Pogba into the team for his creativity, but he keeps letting us down in a 4231 so he tries to reshape the midfield, but we always end up back at Fred & McTominay because they are our best and safest combination. I've no doubt he would like to, and might still, experiment more with the diamond but this not a job that encourages experimentation, because if you lose two games you're on the ropes.

This is why I still have a lot of faith in Ole. Its clear to me what he is trying to do. I think he knows exactly what this team are lacking and where he wants to take this squad.

 

[Bilbo]

When we're underperforming well below the level we should be at

Are we really though? I dont really agree that we are. Last season we finished as high as we realistically could have in the league, and reached the semi finals of every cup (23 extra games for us). It was a disappointment that we couldn't get a trophy or two out of that, but on the whole I think we probably over-achieved last season. I know some will disagree with that and I've had that argument on here many times. Its my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

This season has barely gotten going really. We are well placed to qualify from a really tough CL group, one that few fancied us to get out of when the draw was made. The league is yet to really take shape, but we are nowhere close to needing to be concerned about anything yet.

We have undoubtedly underperformed in certain matches that we have played, but big picture wise I don't agree that we are 'well below' the level we should be at. I think we have every reason to be optimistic about what this season could bring.

 

[RedSky]

Post Lockdown Form:

Nobody has been all that consistent since lockdown. To put it into perspective the last 3 seasons the champions have had a win % of 84.2%. The last time the win % was this low was back when Leicester won the league. What this does show is how diabolical our home form is. We have the highest away win % and one of the lowest home win %'s.

Club​	Home Win %​	Away Win %​	Total Win %​
Manchester City​	77.8%​	50.0%​	64.7%​
Liverpool FC​	87.5%​	33.3%​	58.8%​
Chelsea FC​	75.0%​	44.4%​	58.8%​
Southampton FC​	62.5%​	55.6%​	58.8%​
Tottenham Hotspur​	55.6%​	62.5%​	58.8%​
Manchester United​	25.0%​	87.5%​	56.3%​
Wolverhampton Wanderers​	62.5%​	44.4%​	52.9%​
Arsenal FC​	62.5%​	40.0%​	50.0%​
Leicester City​	50.0%​	44.4%​	47.1%​
Aston Villa​	40.0%​	42.9%​	41.2%​
Everton FC​	33.3%​	50.0%​	41.2%​
West Ham United​	44.4%​	25.0%​	35.3%​
Newcastle United​	33.3%​	25.0%​	29.4%​
Crystal Palace​	25.0%​	33.3%​	29.4%​
Burnley FC​	14.3%​	33.3%​	25.0%​
Brighton & Hove Albion​	11.1%​	37.5%​	23.5%​
Sheffield United​	37.5%​	0.0%​	16.7%​

Please note, relegated/promoted teams not shown.

The thing is, the comparison with Everton doesn't compute. Ole already achieved the dizzy heights most teams crave, in his first 10 or so matches. After that there were some stinging results, until we got Fernandes, who began another group of outstanding results. Then came the semifinal defeats. The pattern is that of a yoyo club. Oh I don't mind if Ole stays for two more years, you know? I love to see him gloat after a win, just as I like to see his shocked and puzzled face after a defeat. Both are satisfying spectacles and I've had more than my money's worth of entertainment from this team. I'm wary of who we'll bring after him. I don't want Poch, who is a very limited manager.

See, people bring this up a fair bit, but surely this was a perfect example of a new manager bounce. Something we normally complain about when we face new managers. We also had a fairly kind run of fixtures when Ole initially took over and although we out performed ourselves during that run, we also destroyed our fitness. Our season ended with that magical PSG game, our form nosedived from that moment. It was only when our defense finally settled and Bruno joined did we start Oles first proper run of decent form. The frustrating thing is our home form has been shocking since the Southampton game last season. That seemed to dent our confidence and it's carried over into this season.

My big concern and first genuine doubt over Ole is that we seemed to fix our defense last season, after a very dodgy 1st half the season we turned it around and suddenly looked very good defensively. Now it's fallen apart again, I can understand our attack stuttering a little bit as we are a little bit low on attacking depth, but our defense shouldn't be struggling. That's my real genuine concern, seems like we've gone backwards again.

 

[Judas]

I am not Ole out yet but this point about having a game in hand that comes into every argument is just so cringey and weak. How about winning the game and taking the 3 points first? It’s no guarantee we’ll win that game either looking at our form

Yeah this is true, sick of seeing everywhere talking about it like its 3 guaranteed points, its daft to ever look at it like that, even more so this upside down weird season.

 

[edgecutter]

I know, right. It's like some can't see what a mess the start of this season has been for all teams.

Southampton were top of the league on the weekend for a reason. We could be right back in the mix in a relatively small amount of time.

You would swear our form will just dramatically change. We have been rubbish bar some CL games and now with a scrappy enough win against Everton people think we are automatically back on track?

The fact we are 6 points behind in a top 4 race after only playing 7 games (4 at home) shows that we have been awful.

 

[VP89]

Pep sitting above us with 2 more pts says hello.

This league is a strange one this year. United, City n Wolves were playing catch up for the first 3 to 4 weeks of the season due to a nothing pre season which I think has seriously distorted the league table. We really struggled in our first 3 games because of this. We were actually lucky to get the 3pts at Brighton.

Dean Smith, Brendan Rodgers and Jose Mourinho say hello too.

I mean for fecksake, how is this even a point - the start is terrible. It has some context but not enough to mitigate the actual tripe we've seen so far this season.

 

[Tom Cato]

#Triggerwarning.

We're off to a better start this season than last. By 4 points assuming we beat West Brom.

The league overall is slightly more even all around. Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal are all off to worse season starts than 19/20. The only team that's improved is: Tottenham, and to a lesser degree Leicester out of all likely title contenders. Southampton and Aston Villa are currently performing above their usual station. Danny Ings should never leave Southampton, it's the perfect club for him.

These are the facts. If you reply with a "whatabout" I'm sending Captain Nemo after you to drag you to sea.

 

[tenpoless]

These are facts that only look at the good things. I might actually have to start doing it, will make my life much easier.

#lifehack

 

[FatherWolff]

#Triggerwarning.

We're off to a better start this season than last. By 4 points assuming we beat West Brom.

The league overall is slightly more even all around. Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal are all off to worse season starts than 19/20. The only team that's improved is: Tottenham, and to a lesser degree Leicester out of all likely title contenders. Southampton and Aston Villa are currently performing above their usual station. Danny Ings should never leave Southampton, it's the perfect club for him.

These are the facts. If you reply with a "whatabout" I'm sending Captain Nemo after you to drag you to sea.

More perspective and another top post! And it’s happening all over Europe.

 

[FatherWolff]

These are facts that only look at the good things. I might actually have to start doing it, will make my life much easier.

#lifehack

Try balance and detailed information!
#reallifehacks

 

[RUCK4444]

Sorry but you're being very ignorant. I'm not going to waste any more time here. How can you even call using Klopp as an example of coaches that can get a team to punch above their weight a comparison to Ole? Whereas posters that outrightly bring out Ole and Klopp's stats after 100 games aren't comparing them? Where have I even said posters ever said Ole was better than Klopp? I'm not even keen on Poch as I've said in other Poch threads but you and other posters seem to have a magic crystal ball that shows how every good manager we can get will fail here while Ole who isn't a better coach than Poch for example is somehow immune to this curse.

And then are you really measuring the quality of coaches by the league position of whatever team they are managing? Complete ignorance in your post. I'm not even going to bother again

How am I being ignorant, you posted negatively and mentioned Klopp (in this, the Ole-Out thread!), so how else am I supposed to interpret that? I pulled you on that comparison and the fact that we simply were not finishing above Pep or Klopp last season (hint: we weren’t - in fact most here expected Europe league) therefore in that sense Ole did as good as any other manager would have done just last season. Do you disagree?

Ole-In posters like myself get accused of being blinded or foolish, I'm a realist, I don't think Poch is any sort of guaranteed upgrade on Ole, at the same time I don't think we will finish above Pep or Klopp with Ole when you compare the two squads. I simply don't want the upheaval of a new manager that doesn't provide better than what Ole has, I don't see that manager out there right now.

We are obviously on different pages, all the best.

 

[RUCK4444]

You would swear our form will just dramatically change. We have been rubbish bar some CL games and now with a scrappy enough win against Everton people think we are automatically back on track?

The fact we are 6 points behind in a top 4 race after only playing 7 games (4 at home) shows that we have been awful.

You should read my post with the context with which it was meant. It's clear the league start has been bizarre from most clubs perspective, this is what a season with tired players and no pre-season looks like, it's affected some more than others.

I'm not saying it's the sole reason for our position, I've posted that our position isn't acceptable, but at the same time we need to take in the full picture here.

The same way I can't sit here and argue it's all solely because of a lack of pre-season I don't believe you can totally disregard that fact either. Coupled with a massively negative vibe around the club itself after our shocking transfer window, the multiple off-field issues around Maguire, Greenwood, AWB etc all amounts to a pretty shite hand that we were dealt for the seasons start. One can only hope that we are now up to fitness and in a more positive mindset. It's pointless pretending these things don't have an effect though, I remember G. Nev talking about it as well.

 

[romufc]

You should read my post with the context with which it was meant. It's clear the league start has been bizarre from most clubs perspective, this is what a season with tired players and no pre-season looks like, it's affected some more than others.

I'm not saying it's the sole reason for our position, I've posted that our position isn't acceptable, but at the same time we need to take in the full picture here.

The same way I can't sit here and argue it's all solely because of a lack of pre-season I don't believe you can totally disregard that fact either. Coupled with a massively negative vibe around the club itself after our shocking transfer window, the multiple off-field issues around Maguire, Greenwood, AWB etc all amounts to a pretty shite hand that we were dealt for the seasons start. One can only hope that we are now up to fitness and in a more positive mindset. It's pointless pretending these things don't have an effect though, I remember G. Nev talking about it as well.

Whether we think Ole is the right man or not, context is important.

Not many PL teams are firing at the moment, look at Liverpool, they had won all their games this time last season.

City, they look like they can be beatable.

We have had various off field issues this season which has really impacted us combined with mentality. I think we have some players who think they can turn up and beat teams after 1 good performance, which is why Fred and Mctominay are in the team now.

I also don't think Everton win was scrappy, we had more chances than people think.

 

[Karlos PFC]

I disagree that he's behind schedule. If you look at Carlo Ancelotti at Everton and Marco Silva before him, you'll see how long it took Everton to start seeing the benefits of their transition - the best part of two full seasons and multiple players who have been brought in. If you actually look at Ole and what he's done with a squad that at the outset had so many holes within it, he's essentially condensed two seasons worth of transition into one. So if anything, he was ahead of schedule.

Ole has almost totally rebuilt his squad with little by way of purchases and the summer transfer window just gone has at best kept him stationary while those around him have improved their first XI and squad. In order to really progress, we needed a good summer transfer window to really kick on as third place was about as good as we were going to get with this team. That didn't happen, so I'd cut him some slack if we get top 4 more comfortably this season. If, however, we are still this inconsistent by Christmas this year, then a discussion should be had about his suitability as despite the squad's inadequacies, these are almost all his players who he has worked with for the best part of two years.

Here's hoping we get that consistency though, because if there is one manager who deserves to actually get proper backing it's him. Bring him Sancho, Grealish, Upamecano and a proper DM, and let's see where he gets us in the table and title race.

Yeah sure, bring me Sancho, Grealish & Upamecano (200m mind you) and I guarantee you the premiership in less than 2 years

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Dean Smith, Brendan Rodgers and Jose Mourinho say hello too.

I mean for fecksake, how is this even a point - the start is terrible. It has some context but not enough to mitigate the actual tripe we've seen so far this season.

I gave you the reason. You chose to ignore it. And when we win 5 or 6 of our next 8 games and are right back in contention you're going to look foolish.

 

[Karlos PFC]

The league overall is slightly more even all around

The league overall is shit, reminds me of the Leicester season. That does not mean that we progress under Ole more so that everyone around us are out of form.

If indeed we progressed under Ole we should be if not top but a lot closer to the top. For a manager spending 300m in two summer transfer windows this is inexcusable

 

[youmeletsfly]

Football is a game of results.

If you look at the EPL results and, most imporantly, the absolute shit level of football we're playing, Ole is easily sackable.
Even if I hate the guy as a manager and more so as a personality, I still think he needs until the end of the season. The only issue with that is what happens in case he fails, again. Our whole summer planning will go to shit.

At least the positive is that he's strarting to get his head out of his ass with the substitutions and with doing feck all on the sidelines.
If he'd show Rashford and Martial the same Pogba treatment at times, I'd even like him a bit.

I still wonder why our players can't hit a 10m pass, have zero 1st touch and zero ideea on how to occupy space, but I guess I'd be too anti Ole for that.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

People were crying for him to be sacked after 2 or 3 games into a season where we had no pre season and were clearly not ready through no fault of his own. Fifa demanded a 30 day break for every player.

Even after 5 or 6 games sacking a manager is ridiculous but it sums up the modern impatient football fan. Let's see where we are after 12 to 15 games. I think we'll all be much happier by then.

 

[VP89]

I gave you the reason. You chose to ignore it. And when we win 5 or 6 of our next 8 games and are right back in contention you're going to look foolish.

I didn't ignore it, I rebuttled by giving examples of 3 teams who have adapted better to the opening games, rendering the "reason" as bullshit.

And we might win 5 or 6 of our next 8 games, that won't change the fact that we severely underperformed in our opening 7, so no, it won't.

 

[romufc]

The league overall is shit, reminds me of the Leicester season. That does not mean that we progress under Ole more so that everyone around us are out of form.

If indeed we progressed under Ole we should be if not top but a lot closer to the top. For a manager spending 300m in two summer transfer windows this is inexcusable

How is the league shit? Explain that logic to me please.

 

[el3mel]

People were crying for him to be sacked after 2 or 3 games into a season where we had no pre season and were clearly not ready through no fault of his own. Fifa demanded a 30 day break for every player.

Even after 5 or 6 games sacking a manager is ridiculous but it sums up the modern impatient football fan. Let's see where we are after 12 to 15 games. I think we'll all be much happier by then.

Well not really. Carlo was sacked by Bayern after 6 league games in his second season (and he won four of them by the way).

"The performance of our team since the start of the season did not meet the expectations we put to them," said Bayern's chief executive Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.

"I would like to thank Carlo for his cooperation. Carlo is my friend and will remain my friend, but we had to make a professional decision. The game in Paris clearly showed that we had to draw consequences."

 

[Roane]

My memory may fail me, but didn't we fire some bloke right after an FA cup victory?

Not really the same as being sacked in November after a win

 

[RUCK4444]

Whether we think Ole is the right man or not, context is important.

Not many PL teams are firing at the moment, look at Liverpool, they had won all their games this time last season.

City, they look like they can be beatable.

We have had various off field issues this season which has really impacted us combined with mentality. I think we have some players who think they can turn up and beat teams after 1 good performance, which is why Fred and Mctominay are in the team now.

I also don't think Everton win was scrappy, we had more chances than people think.

Yeah exactly, perspective is important to form a balanced view, whichever side of the fence you are on.

Totally agree with the bolded as well. The mentality would have been affected by the furore around the club, we do lack leadership within the squad itself.

Yeah Everton win was a good performance, we nullified them other than the one early goal and we should have really bagged more than 3 when you factor in the clear chances we missed.

 

[Davìd Moyéz]

Football is a game of results.

If you look at the EPL results and, most imporantly, the absolute shit level of football we're playing, Ole is easily sackable.
Even if I hate the guy as a manager and more so as a personality, I still think he needs until the end of the season. The only issue with that is what happens in case he fails, again. Our whole summer planning will go to shit.

At least the positive is that he's strarting to get his head out of his ass with the substitutions and with doing feck all on the sidelines.
If he'd show Rashford and Martial the same Pogba treatment at times, I'd even like him a bit.

I still wonder why our players can't hit a 10m pass, have zero 1st touch and zero ideea on how to occupy space, but I guess I'd be too anti Ole for that.

Just to clarify, are you saying that you hate Ole as a personality?

Genuinely staggered that that's possible.

 

[united for life]

Can people please stop comparing Ole to Klopp when there is a world of difference between leading Molde to a title in Norway and Dortmund to a Bundesliga title in Germany.

There is also the small matter of him getting them to a champions league final as well even though ultimately got beat by Bayern.

ok. Ole is too nice. He is a PE teacher. He lacks tactical mindset. Is this what you want to read?

i did not compare him to klopp in my post. I said Klopp’s record in the first 100 games was worse than Ole’s. What is meant by this is that a manager needs to be given time to build especially in a case like ours where we have already changed 3 managers in 5 years.

you may not like this, but Ole has actually shown on multiple occasions that he has the right tactical mindset to beat teams better than us. It’s consistency that we are lacking and this is what Ole needs to ensure he works on

 

[youmeletsfly]

Just to clarify, are you saying that you hate Ole as a personality?

Genuinely staggered that that's possible.

Everyone has their own hate for someone, for me my hate to Ole is for being a bit soft, at least for what I can see on tv.
Loved him as a player, but boy he bores and annoys the shit out of me when he speaks.

Don't really hate other people like him, just can't like the man. I can't put a finger on an exact reason other than him being a bit soft and boring. I guess it's daft by me, but hey, life is life.

 

[romufc]

Yeah exactly, perspective is important to form a balanced view, whichever side of the fence you are on.

Totally agree with the bolded as well. The mentality would have been affected by the furore around the club, we do lack leadership within the squad itself.

Yeah Everton win was a good performance, we nullified them other than the one early goal and we should have really bagged more than 3 when you factor in the clear chances we missed.

This is what I do not get, fans have favourite players and want them to play, Manutd shouldn't be about that. It should be about the team and results.

Its no surprise we have got positive results with McT and Fred playing in midfield. Some fans want Bruno dropped because he loses the ball too much but he is our only leader on the pitch, he is our talisman.

People want Donny playing but I cannot see how Donny gets in this team until we have put 3/4 wins on the bounce and then Ole can integrate him in.

In respects to Everton, didn't most people think we'd lose the game? considering their early season form, how many clear cut chances did they really create? A scrappy win is where we play crap all game and get a set piece goal. Considering Martial's early chance, 2/3 Rashford chances, 3/4 other semi chances where Martial, Mata, Bruno, Rashford made the wrong pass or didnt pass quick enough and the potential penalty, we done well.

What we have to remember is, this season in the PL opposing teams will have a 15/20 min spell in a game where they keep the ball and put pressure, we stood up to that well too.

 

[lysglimt]

My definition of support is to demand certain level of excellent, just like SAF taught me.

If he has your mentality we won't be the United of today.

Oh you mean the level of excellence it took Ferguson over 6 years to achieve ? 3 years into his reign - we had a team that was close to getting relegated. If United had your mentality - we may have been talking about the league we won in the 60s

 

[Bastian]

Oh you mean the level of excellence it took Ferguson over 6 years to achieve ? 3 years into his reign - we had a team that were close to getting relegated. If United had your mentality - we may have been talking about the league we won in the 60s

This argumentation is so flawed it looks like a trojan horse by an Ole-outer. SAF, like you said, came into a club in a vastly different state. Ole took over a team he was glowing about that finished 2nd the season before.

And again, for a manager who describes himself as a leader type manager, not a coach-manager, there is scant evidence he has the slightest similarity with an actual leader type manager such as SAF.

Keane was right when he said this was the season where Ole will be judged. He simply has to have a good season and to do so he needs to get a consistent level of good performances, which, quite frankly, every other manager in his position would be required to do after the time spent here.

 

[el3mel]

ok. Ole is too nice. He is a PE teacher. He lacks tactical mindset. Is this what you want to read?

i did not compare him to klopp in my post. I said Klopp’s record in the first 100 games was worse than Ole’s. What is meant by this is that a manager needs to be given time to build especially in a case like ours where we have already changed 3 managers in 5 years.

you may not like this, but Ole has actually shown on multiple occasions that he has the right tactical mindset to beat teams better than us. It’s consistency that we are lacking and this is what Ole needs to ensure he works on

The win percentage percent is absolutely pointless stat when it comes to comparing managers. It ignores the fact Klopp during these 100 hundred games reached 2 finals and finished top 4 in his first season with 75 points tally, meanwhile the biggest achievement for us during Ole's tenure so far is reaching some semi-finals and getting top 4 with 66 points.

It was fun defeating top teams but I'm honestly starting to feel a little bit scary about us just turning into a game rising team, a team that fecks up for the majority of the season but massively rises its game against any big opponent or when pressure is up, then revert back to its usual performance after this. Remember when we were mocking midtable clubs for playing against us as if it's their cup final, and managing to defeat us or get points at Old Trafford, then shite the bed the next game ? It's honestly scary for me that there's a prospect of us turning into that.

 

[croadyman]

ok. Ole is too nice. He is a PE teacher. He lacks tactical mindset. Is this what you want to read?

i did not compare him to klopp in my post. I said Klopp’s record in the first 100 games was worse than Ole’s. What is meant by this is that a manager needs to be given time to build especially in a case like ours where we have already changed 3 managers in 5 years.

you may not like this, but Ole has actually shown on multiple occasions that he has the right tactical mindset to beat teams better than us. It’s consistency that we are lacking and this is what Ole needs to ensure he works on

I will agree that Ole has proved he is capable of beating teams better than us with this counter attacking style, however I still haven't seen enough evidence of Ole being able to send us out on the front foot when we are required to take the initiative in home games and break down teams with a low block. Mind you after watching Arsenal's game with Villa last night it looks like they are having the same problem in home games as well.

 

[Davìd Moyéz]

Everyone has their own hate for someone, for me my hate to Ole is for being a bit soft, at least for what I can see on tv.
Loved him as a player, but boy he bores and annoys the shit out of me when he speaks.

Don't really hate other people like him, just can't like the man. I can't put a finger on an exact reason other than him being a bit soft and boring. I guess it's daft by me, but hey, life is life.

Right so you hate a man you've never met, you're not quite sure why.

You used to love him but because he doesn't make loads of funny jokes or slag off his players in the public interviews he gives you now have actual hatred towards his personality? I think you need to see a counsellor.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Right so you hate a man you've never met, you're not quite sure why.

You used to love him but because he doesn't make loads of funny jokes or slag off his players in the public interviews he gives you now have actual hatred towards his personality? I think you need to see a counsellor.

Quite ironic, the bolded.

 

[Davìd Moyéz]

Quite ironic, the bolded.

When did hatred become so normal and unchallenged? Pretty scary imo that someone feels prepared to write about their hatred of a man's personality without knowing why they hate them don't you think?

 

[He'sRaldo]

When did hatred become so normal and unchallenged? Pretty scary imo that someone feels prepared to write about their hatred of a man's personality without knowing why they hate them don't you think?

Don't think it's scary necessarily. That's normal humanity, to naturally gel with some and feel aversion to others.

And besides, I have a feeling he means that Ole rubs him the wrong way, rather than an outright deep hatred of the man. As long as he's not spreading bile I'm not too concerned. In fact, some people may not outright say they hate Ole (or Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Lingard, Maguire, whoever) but come out with much worse posts than his in terms of pure bile.

 

[united for life]

The win percentage percent is absolutely pointless stat when it comes to comparing managers. It ignores the fact Klopp during these 100 hundred games reached 2 finals and finished top 4 in his first season with 75 points tally, meanwhile the biggest achievement for us during Ole's tenure so far is reaching some semi-finals and getting top 4 with 66 points.

It was fun defeating top teams but I'm honestly starting to feel a little bit scary about us just turning into a game rising team, a team that fecks up for the majority of the season but massively rises its game against any big opponent or when pressure is up, then revert back to its usual performance after this. Remember when we were mocking midtable clubs for playing against us as if it's their cup final, and managing to defeat us or get points at Old Trafford, then shite the bed the next game ? It's honestly scary for me that there's a prospect of us turning into that.

why should we say “some semi finals”? Why is it irrelevant when it comes to Ole? Why undermine this? Yes, we are manchester united and we should be winning everything but we are not there at the moment but surely building. I’ve seen better building by Ole than the other manages after fergie.

i agree with you that performing against big teams and then underperforming against others is not what we want to see and should not happen but this is what Ole needs to work on.

finishing third last year was, in itself, an achievement (absolutely hate to say this. But it is the truth). We know that liverpool and city are miles ahead of the rest (or were so last year at least).

let’s not just ignore the positives.

 

[united for life]

I will agree that Ole has proved he is capable of beating teams better than us with this counter attacking style, however I still haven't seen enough evidence of Ole being able to send us out on the front foot when we are required to take the initiative in home games and break down teams with a low block. Mind you after watching Arsenal's game with Villa last night it looks like they are having the same problem in home games as well.

agreed. And this is what Ole needs to work on. My point is that we have seen positives which we shouldn’t ignore. The overall atmosphere is positive, the football is more interesting to watch (at least some games are interesting to watch), signing are not perfect but good (taking into consideration the restrictions we face from the Glazers) and we have actually finished 3rd last year behind 2 teams which were much better than the rest.

the pressure was always going to be there. You mentioned arsenal, we don’t see the media pressuring arteta for a 3-0 loss against villa but they hammer ole for a loss!

 

[He'sRaldo]

let’s not just ignore the positives.

I don't want to take anything for granted, but those things you listed are not positives but requirements.

A manager coming in would be required to finish around where Ole did (positionally, not necessarily points-wise), and develop our younger talents while going far in the cups. It sounds harsh but that's what it's like at a big club that invests a lot, especially one that invests in young players and in our academy.

I think a final would have been a positive takeaway, obviously an actual cup win would also be a positive. As for the league, either reaching a position above where we expected, or having an exciting style of play while being at the expected position would both be positives.

 

[el3mel]

why should we say “some semi finals”? Why is it irrelevant when it comes to Ole? Why undermine this? Yes, we are manchester united and we should be winning everything but we are not there at the moment but surely building. I’ve seen better building by Ole than the other manages after fergie.

i agree with you that performing against big teams and then underperforming against others is not what we want to see and should not happen but this is what Ole needs to work on.

finishing third last year was, in itself, an achievement (absolutely hate to say this. But it is the truth). We know that liverpool and city are miles ahead of the rest (or were so last year at least).

let’s not just ignore the positives.

Because semi-finals are irrelevant regardless of manager in charge ? I don't remember the last time a big club considered reaching semi-final of domestic cup as something worth noting at all really. Hell, people forget who reached semi finals of Champions League few years later, never mind domestic cups. We're Manchester United not Southampton. We're supposed to reach advanced stages in domestic cups anyway. Pretty weird really this point for me. Beside I was just saying it also reflects more on the ridiculous Klopp-Ole comparison point, and notes that summarizing it in just win percentage is simply wrong. Klopp had worse win percentage during this period maybe, but he reached 2 finals and got more points in his first season, so better stop making such comparisons okay ? You can't compare 2 managers with just win percentage.

I'm not ignoring the positives, definitely the end of the last season in terms of performance and results were really good, and made more hopeful of current season, but that doesn't mean I should go on talking about reaching semi finals in some cups as some sort of an achievement now for United. I can feel the positives, admire them, and think we have done well without also exaggerating.

We used to mock Arsenal fans for getting "top 4 trophy" for years so I'm not going to do worse than them.

 

[Davìd Moyéz]

Don't think it's scary necessarily. That's normal humanity, to naturally gel with some and feel aversion to others.

And besides, I have a feeling he means that Ole rubs him the wrong way, rather than an outright deep hatred of the man. As long as he's not spreading bile I'm not too concerned. In fact, some people may not outright say they hate Ole (or Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Lingard, Maguire, whoever) but come out with much worse posts than his in terms of pure bile.

I suspect you're right. I'm sure he doesn't have any deep hatred which is why I highlighted the word incredulously. I'm sure he doesn't need counseling.

My point really is that why have we become so extreme in our language? Even on this forum you have to pick a side on every subject. There's no room for moderacy. You're either an Ole in man or an Ole out man, a Martial fan boy or a hater. Feel like society has become so divided and use of the word hatred is so divisive and extreme. Why have we lost the ability to be moderate? Just say "Ole's personality isn't my cup of tea", not "I hate his management and have an even deeper hatred for his personality". Feel a bit bad for targeting this poster for a throwaway comment but this kind of excessive language is everywhere you look.