Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Yes, and everyone you ask would pick a different side and different systems for the players available. Not having a right winger is our biggest problem for now, but we need to get a way around this.
Not having a right winger is not the reason we have 7 points from 6 games. Liverpool have feck all center backs and are still putting sides away without conceding too many chances, City have no strikers and are still finding a system to get by games without losing too much control.

I refuse to buy this utter garbage - Jose had no natural right winger and got 2nd, Ole had no natural right winger and managed some glimpses of consistency without building on it. We didn't lose yesterday, or against Spurs, or against Palace because we have no right winger. We lost because we can't play out from the back, we had square pegs in round holes in midfield (when we really didn't need to) and because our off the ball pressing was atrocious. The buck stops at Ole for these matters.

Also regarding everyone choosing a different side/systems, that does not mean everyone chooses something inbalanced.
For example @Regulus Arcturus Black may think 4231 is best, and I might think a diamond is best. But we would both agree that Pogba shouldn't be chucked in deep areas where he always fecks up, or that Fred shouldn't play in a playmaker role over Matic. That is obvious to the majority of people, and brings balance to their various systems. And yet Ole (not for the first time) makes a bizzare choice of putting square pegs in round holes. McTominay in B2B over Fred vs Arsenal or Mata/James vs Chelsea, or James vs Newcastle. It's all self inflicted, feck all to do with the lack of a right winger. Greenwood/VDB were benched for James against Newcastle and Chelsea - it's pretty criminal.
 
It's a ridiculously talented squad. Just look at the names, and park Pogba because I think he's been average:

Rashford
Martial
Cavani/Greenwood
VDB & Bruno Fernandes(!)
Maguire/Lindelof (in an organized defence can work)
Shaw/AWB with Telles to return

With capable defensive midfielders of different moulds (breaking play up with Fred, composed playmaker in Matic).

This is a ridiculously capable squad, I refuse to buy the utter garbage that Ole has little to work with.
Exactly, that is a top 3 team there easily!
Just need to find a competitive manager who isn’t a daft club legend experiment.
 
Not having a right winger is not the reason we have 7 points from 6 games. Liverpool have feck all center backs and are still putting sides away without conceding too many chances, City have no strikers and are still finding a system to get by games without losing too much control.

I refuse to buy this utter garbage - Jose had no natural right winger and got 2nd, Ole had no natural right winger and managed some glimpses of consistency without building on it. We didn't lose yesterday, or against Spurs, or against Palace because we have no right winger. We lost because we can't play out from the back, we had square pegs in round holes in midfield (when we really didn't need to) and because our off the ball pressing was atrocious. The buck stops at Ole for these matters.

Also regarding everyone choosing a different side/systems, that does not mean everyone chooses something inbalanced.
For example @Regulus Arcturus Black may think 4231 is best, and I might think a diamond is best. But we would both agree that Pogba shouldn't be chucked in deep areas where he always fecks up, or that Fred should play in a playmaker role over Matic. That is obvious to the majority of people, and brings balance to their various systems. And yet Ole (not for the first time) makes a bizzare choice of putting square pegs in round holes. McTominay in B2B over Fred vs Arsenal or Mata/James vs Chelsea, or James vs Newcastle. It's all self inflicted, feck all to do with the lack of a right winger. Greenwood/VDB were benched for James against Newcastle and Chelsea - it's pretty criminal.
If you read my post on Ole and his coaches I have said all of this. I don't want an argument as I know we are all feeling down atm. I agree with most of what you have said here except Liverpool have 2 attacking full backs who can cross the ball accurately and quickly, we don't. Our right hand side, both in midfield and up front is still weak as Greenwood moves inside when we attack, ( natural instinct for a CF) and AWB can't cross, or never tries. That's all I'm saying, on the matter. We will agree to disagree, Ok.
 
I'm seeing a lot of interesting views in here, so allow me to ask two questions:

1. On paper, how good is the current set of players compared to the rest of the league?
I personally think we are the 3rd or 4th best. And I think we are closer to the likes of Tottenham and Arsenal than we are to Liverpool and City.

2. Based on the answer you gave to the question above: do you think the current period already proves that Ole can't possibly achieve this league position in May?
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think top 4 is impossible when we're only 6 points away, have a game in hand, and there are 32 games left.
 
Still Ole out. While I agree that OGS is a good man-manager, being able to keep most of the players motivated and most showing effort, that in itself is not enough. And given that we do not know who decides what at the upper echelons of the club we can only evaluate what happens on the pitch.

Everything we do in attack is about individual efforts. Either it be Bruno finding Rashford or Martial or one of our attackers getting a penalty. As soon as we meet a team that is able to stop us from progressing the ball through the middle and protecting the central areas around their own box, we are really struggling to progress the ball without taking high risk actions or pass and move to create good opertunities. While we have some players that are less than impressive on the ball, this does not mean that we shouldn't be able to progress the ball or be able pass the ball around a parked bus...

And our pressing is almost as bad. We press with the players at times, but there is no cohesive attempt behind it. Are we attempting to force the ball to their weakest technical player? Are we trying to force a long ball? Are we trying to press towards the sideline? To me it looks like we press more for the apperance of pressing high... And when we press, the defenders and central midfielders do not come after, so there are acres of space behind our 3/4 pressing players.

The way Bayern plays is the benchmark. And OGS as a manager is not close to being able to coach the cohesive understanding and passing/movement patterns to play like that. I see no point in continuing with the current manager when there are few, if any, signs that his approach to football, or lack there off, will be anywhere close to be succesfull at the highest level. Get a manager that can coach and create institutional knowledge in the squad on how to pass and press cohesively. These two elements are fundamental for any team wanting to compete long term.

Our best chance seems to be to continue with the approach we had to the PSG game. Sit back with 5/6 players at all times, accept that we lack any cohesive understanding of how to pass, progress the ball and press, and hope that the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Telles can create something on their own or together.
 
I don't know how people want to stick with Solskjaer. Again, we are going through a phase where we are going to need to claw back points. Are people really happy with seeing the same stuff as at the start of last season?

People keep saying its only November so 15th doesn't mean anything, but it does. It is the worst start to a Premier League season we have ever had, following on from the worst start last season, so we have most certainly not progressed. We are going through the same cycle again, and what do people expect? That we sign a player in January that has the same impact as Fernandes? Are we going to have to do this every season?

He has had two years at the club and over £200m in transfer expenditure, yet we still have the same issues as when he joined. We still struggle unless we have space to play into.

What has he actually done that is so great, anyway?

- Beating big teams? Mourinho (19/30 in 17/18) and Van Gaal (21/30 in 14/15) have better records than Solskjaer (18/30 in 18/19). Beating big teams hasn't improved at all.
- Defending? Our best defensive record was under Mourinho.
- XG from open play? Nope, we had a better Xg from open play under Mourinho.
- Position? Nope, 2nd under Mourinho was our best.
- Points total? Nope, his best is 15 points under 17/18
- Goals? Nope, it is only 1 better than the prior season, which was awful, and is worse than 17/18
- Trophies? Nope. Mourinho won Europa League and League Cup, whilst Van Gaal won the FA Cup.

I don't get why people are so enamoured with him.
 
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He has no plan and his rebuild has been poorly executed and we are obviously going nowhere with him here so why persist with it any longer, it's not like he doesn't have a near full squad to choose from this season either unlike the start of last season
 
Is he going to lead us back to the top? No
So we’re simply delaying the inevitable and wasting money and time in the process.

If he wasn’t a United legend, he’d be gone ages ago. Saying that he wouldn’t have had the job in the first place based on his credentials as a manager. No one can deny that.
 
I don't know how people want to stick with Solskjaer. Again, we are going through a phase where we are going to need to claw back points. Are people really happy with seeing the same stuff as at the start of last season?

People keep saying its only November so 15th doesn't mean anything, but it does. It is the worst start to a Premier League season we have ever had, following on from the worst start last season, so we have most certainly not progressed. We are going through the same cycle again, and what do people expect? That we sign a player in January that has the same impact as Fernandes? Are we going to have to do this every season?

He has had two years at the club and over £200m in transfer expenditure, yet we still have the same issues as when he joined. We still struggle unless we have space to play into.

What has he actually done that is so great, anyway?

- Beating big teams? Mourinho (19/30 in 17/18) and Van Gaal (21/30 in 14/15) have better records than Solskjaer (18/30 in 18/19). Beating big teams hasn't improved at all.
- Defending? Our best defensive record was better under Mourinho.
- XG from open play? Nope, we had a better Xg from open play under Mourinho.
- Position? Nope, 2nd under Mourinho was our best.
- Points total? Nope, his best is 15 points under 17/18
- Goals? Nope, it is only 1 better than the prior season, which was awful, and is worse than 17/18
- Trophies? Nope. Mourinho won Europa League and League Cup, whilst Van Gaal won the FA Cup.

I don't get why people are so enamoured with him.
It's because he is a legend. My take on it is I love Ole for what he done as a player but I don't think he and his staff has the Technical knowledge and motivation of players to win trophies here. 3 semi-finals last season showed that he was outwitted in 2 at least.
 
The key areas which needed fixing were not addressed: :RW, DM, CB. The utter imbecilic and parasitic idiots who run the club dicked around for months in the most important transfer window for years.

  • Wasting time on a red herring chase after Sancho to look like they were trying. Then not bothering to even have a plan B
  • Not bothering with Thiago who would really have helped yesterday
  • Letting Partey go unopposed to Arsenal
  • Not bothering paying a relatively low fee for Upamecano
Then at the very last minute going in for a few bargain buys who don’t really address the problem areas and leaving no time for them to gel or to plan a strategy going forward

Ole might not be the answer but the fact is he just finished 3rd and if we didn’t have selfish bellends running the club we could have really improved and prepared and become more cohesive a lot earlier. Change the manager and these problems do not go away. We’ll just be having exactly the same conversation in a couple of years. And the toxic fan base will have moved onto another target.
So Ole gets to stay despite the obvious shortcomings to his rein until the Glazers and Woodward are fecked off, whenever that is? Yes he hasn't gotten everything he wanted but lets not pretend like he is in a similar predicament to Sean Dyche and what is being demanded of him is wildly beyond the realms of possibility. Over 90% of managers in European football can only dream of the resources Ole has access to both financial and material.
 
We have

De Gea 30 years old
Bruno 26 years old
Martial 25 years old
Rashford 23 years old
Fred 27 years old
Maguire 27 years old
Lindelof 26 years old
Shaw 25 years old
AWB 23 years old
Scott 24 years old
Telles 27 years old

All these are at their prime at the moment or just about to start it. All are ranging from good to great players.

We also have from the old players Matic (32) and Cavani (33) with good contribution from the bench.

And from the youngsters we have Greenwood (19), an exceptional talent.

Now let's forget a little bit about the manager, what exactly does this squad miss to just, I mean just, mount a close title challenge ? 4 years or so from now on, several of our best players like Bruno or Martial will be close to 30 and their prime will be close to come to an end. What's the perfect time for these lot to win something big ?

Everything points to it being NOW. Within the next 2-3 years at least. Otherwise it'll be a waste, simply. Liverpool and City aren't as strong as they were the previous few seasons, and in no time they'll start entering the "rebuild phase" themselves.

So when we'll stop being content with just top 4 and "transitional period" and start thinking "yeah that's enough, time to win the big prizes in football" ?
Yeah this squad is good enough to do something real good. Sancho would have made even better of course but finishing outside top 4 this season would be a capital crime.
 
best thing to happen for Ole would be an injury keeping Pogba away from the team, allow him time without needing to try and fit that waste of space in the team, he should be strong enough to bench him but that clearly isn't going to happen
 
Said it on the pod but Ole has no football philosophy outside of being able to counter attack effectively in big games or where the opponent plays with a high line. Relies heavily on individual brilliance on counter from likes of Rashford and the set pieces of Fernandes.

In Europe he has done exceptional because it suits his form of tactics, he can absorb pressure and spring counters regularly and the tempo is slightly slower than in the league and most importantly - less pressure as we were seen as underdogs... whenever we are written off, he performs miracles.

The moment we are favourites or expecting to take the game to someone and break down a low block - we turn into a zombie football side, we had double the amount of sideways passes than Arsenal who were incredibly negative yesterday and the amount of touches players take before hitting a pass is shocking - sort of thing Klopp and Pep would tear their hair out about if they had any - the more touches each player takes - tempo drops, easier for opponent to settle into battle lines and more chance of being dispossessed. This is a coaching issue.

Not at the point where I am Ole out but did I ever think Ole was going to win a title? Not really but he might win a UCL the way his team sets up in Europe so perhaps for that reason I will still back him - but domestically he has been shocking so far. Also use VDB for gods sake.
Good analysis Raees.
 
For one full year everyone knows our weakness of playing against high press. One full year. That is enough time for having a plan in place, coaching the team accordingly, drill again and again. But here we are.

More I see I believe apart from selecting 11 and sub what else Ole and his coaches really do?
 
He reminds me of one of those inconsistent maverick players we've seen over the years; someone like Ben Arfa. Those types of players were ultimately not top level material, despite having talent, they lack the basics and the consistency to be regarded as top level. They can have a game where they get a hat trick agsinst a top side, followed by numerous erratic, inconsistent performances.

This is Ole all over. He can pull a doozy out of the bag and then go on a hopeless run. He hasn't been a total disaster but ultimately he has serious limitations. We will keep flip-flopping in here with both sides thinking they're vindicated and right following a win/defeat. Thing is, of course we're going to win games ffs, look at our squad! So a win here or there is proving very little, and the wild OTT celebrations and threads after Manchester United beat a piss poor Newcastle side and a won a home game in the CL is small time and petty. Standards are on the floor for some, it seems.

Also stop with the agenda driven sample size of "our form since February". So pre-February 2020 must all be forgotten, that's unless you want to mention his initial run. Also, the 2020/21 season can't be spoken about in isolation. You have to talk about from Feb to now. I'm sorry, but since when has half a previous seasons form mattered in the context of what is happening in a current season? Never is the answer, as football is a results driven business based on the here and now. Maybe in the past it was different, but in modern times that's how it is. Ranieri was sacked the season after winning the league with Leicester ffs.

Yes, third place was commendable but let's focus on what's happening now. Our season so far has been terrible. Yes he deserves praise for the two CL games but stop with the OTT nonsense. We were pretty awful against Newcastle bar the last 20 minutes when he changed it up. Yet on here the wild celebrations were ludicrous. I mean it was a fairly routine win ffs. He's managing Manchester United and giving him little pats on the back for a win is a sad indictment of his reign and how far standards have fallen for some. Let's call it as it is, we don't look like we're going anywhere under him. He's most liklely hit his ceiling. I think we're wasting our time persisting with him but I don't see him being sacked anytime soon.
 
I've been somewhat in between Ole in and Ole out. I've never aggressively wanted Solskjær sacked. But I must admit I'm starting to lean heavily towards a sack. We've been way too inconsistent in performances and results. And our current league form is shocking to say the least. Especially at Old Trafford.

I don't see Solskjær as a manager for the future and therefore I wouldn't be against us looking at more solid alternatives.

I appreciate the positivity he brought to the club and he did for a while seem to get a hold of the players and had them working united. But we're slipping.. Once again.
 
We need to beat Everton or there will be a new level of division on the caf, and among fans I fear. If we lose I can see Neville being asked the question on Skysports, and expecting him to fully back the manager as he always has.
 
Still Ole out. While I agree that OGS is a good man-manager, being able to keep most of the players motivated and most showing effort, that in itself is not enough. And given that we do not know who decides what at the upper echelons of the club we can only evaluate what happens on the pitch.

Everything we do in attack is about individual efforts. Either it be Bruno finding Rashford or Martial or one of our attackers getting a penalty. As soon as we meet a team that is able to stop us from progressing the ball through the middle and protecting the central areas around their own box, we are really struggling to progress the ball without taking high risk actions or pass and move to create good opertunities. While we have some players that are less than impressive on the ball, this does not mean that we shouldn't be able to progress the ball or be able pass the ball around a parked bus...

And our pressing is almost as bad. We press with the players at times, but there is no cohesive attempt behind it. Are we attempting to force the ball to their weakest technical player? Are we trying to force a long ball? Are we trying to press towards the sideline? To me it looks like we press more for the apperance of pressing high... And when we press, the defenders and central midfielders do not come after, so there are acres of space behind our 3/4 pressing players.

The way Bayern plays is the benchmark. And OGS as a manager is not close to being able to coach the cohesive understanding and passing/movement patterns to play like that. I see no point in continuing with the current manager when there are few, if any, signs that his approach to football, or lack there off, will be anywhere close to be succesfull at the highest level. Get a manager that can coach and create institutional knowledge in the squad on how to pass and press cohesively. These two elements are fundamental for any team wanting to compete long term.

Our best chance seems to be to continue with the approach we had to the PSG game. Sit back with 5/6 players at all times, accept that we lack any cohesive understanding of how to pass, progress the ball and press, and hope that the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Telles can create something on their own or together.

Is he though? What tangible proof do we have of that? It seems that conclusion had been arrived at because he's less publically toxic than Jose.

If he were such a great man manager he'd be getting a better tune out of the poorer players. Very similarly to how his mentor worked. When Ole doesn't have his best 11, performing at the top of their game, we struggle. He isn't motivating them, nor is he particularly good at getting the best of the group.
 
Ole has been managing his 100th games for United, at this point he should have his formation/philosophy/tactics well taught to his players. Yet each of them are clueless on what to do, what their teammates does, no cohesion at all, except when we play counter attacking, which I consider as Primal Instinct football that relies on player's basic instinct to attack empty spaces. While not every team needs to be a tiki-taka proponent I'd expect a certain savvy and swagger from a Manchester United team, we were never a very tactical team under SAF but we sure can handle our balls when pressed, we seldom dilly dallying with the balls but we do keep our balls when the push comes to the shoves. Everyone knows where everyone is, when you press one player he have avenue to release the ball, the off the ball movement is subtle yet always presence. This video is actually Ronaldo's debut compilation, but the amount of passing between our old side is visible, we seldom lose the ball. There's no fancy skills / trick necessary, just moving to the right place and making the right pass, basically football 101.



For me the greatest indication of a good coach is how systematic he can get his teams rolling, and how fast he could attain it. That's what separates the real manager and the lucky go happy manager. They might not get the best results and probably won't win a trophy but their work in the team is solid, visible, and regardless of whether they work or don't you actually see what they're trying to do.


070717b1a0fa4a50cd703c9ea842418b.jpg


It's like seeing a Roman Battle formation, they know exactly what to do, where to push, which flank to cover, even if they lose being sucker punched you know that 8/10 they'd won their fight. With Ole it's more like a bunch of savage barbarian baying for blood when they feel up for it, and meekly contained / routed when they don't feel like showing up. Ole's team leave too much to chances we're seeing what we're seeing, a very erratic result. You need defensive stability first and foremost, you need the mainframe of a tactics, the doctrine, then you tweak a little here and there to suit different opponent.

I haven't seen the big formation up until today, and it's been 100 games it's worrying. I doubt Ole has what it takes and if he indeed understand the fine arts of battle formation (cough... football tactics)

1. What are we trying to do? Was it contain? Was it counter? Was it Gegenpress? Was it route one? Most baffling stuff for me is the high press when we're actually a counter attacking team. It's just logically contradictory. I'm not a fans of counter attacking football, but if you must play it like that at least play it like Jose, soak the pressure up, defend deep, exploit spaces with pace and directness. You don't play counter attacking and camp at your opponent half, you'll only make things harder.

2. No clear vision on player purchase. The direct result of no.1, not knowing full well how we wants to play we ended up buying players that are tactically hampering our own. A slow CB, a weak going forward RB, a Left Winger who's pretty bog standard technically. Bruno was a fine player, but I chalk it up as luck, he's just good enough, but he could be much better in a more tactical team that's build correctly. When you put Zidane in our team he doesn't suddenly becomes Djemba2, but putting him in the France team he'll become something else, the Maestro. My point is that Bruno is the shit that sticks on the wall.

3. Ole is clueless to the whole situation, he doesn't know what he's lacking, he's the dwarf in the middle of the melee he can't see where/what/how/who and when things' happening. It's very simple to notice, he never got up his seat and barks instructions. It only indicates that he's either "happy with what his players are showing" or "doesn't know what to do with it" or "doesn't know that whatever it is it's not working". Pep/Klopp even SAF are animated near the sidelines, not because they're showing off, but because they see something they don't like, and constantly reminding / demanding / changing / inspecting / analyzing / watching for changes in the battlefield like a proper strategist. When the opponent make instructions, they're there to see and adapt. Our beloved Ole seems clueless that Jose is targeting Shaw and bombards our slow CB with pace, that's basic error you can't make at top level football.

Playing football is pretty basic for some of us, but I always believe that at the top level every 0.1% is the difference between winning and losing. The amount of details pep went through is insane, he even analyzed the way some players trap a ball and make improvements. Now some of us probably thinks that's a lot of bull and all we need is go out there and enjoy the game, which I think it's a lot of crap. Anyone that has any experiences in a competitive sports would know that you need a lot more than simply go out and enjoy your game. Other professions and sports such as E-sport, NFL, Basketball, Chess, even Michelin star chef pays lots of attention to the finer details, which is the 1% extra that differentiates you and the rest. Our team and fans attitude towards this is often underestimating and sniffling at, as if it's our god's given right to win a football match just by showing up.

Often we heard lines as "Play pogba in Diamond" or "Play 3 at the back" or " X is not a 6 he's an 8" as if they understand what it really meant. Do you know that between Johan Cruyff and Ole Gunnar Solksjaer they actually play the same formation : 433. Some call it 4321, some call it 433, it's just a number. Any bored kids at school used to make mockup formations,

soccer-football-strategy_13339-290757.jpg


What Cruyft draw and What I draw and What Ole Draw is probably the same thing, but the applications on the field is night and day. It's not about formation, but the finer details that lies within. What to pass, where to press, triangles, diamonds, collective positioning, 2 on 1, 3 on 2, and lot of the finer details. Any ex footballer can pretend to be a football manager, but you really need to be the master of the arts to squeeze that last 1%. And that 1% in the longer run of the campaign is the difference between champion and runner up. Even in buying player you'll devote an extra amount of attention to details, just like SAF even analyze their mentality. Our coach seems to fail at basic analyzing that his 80M defender are too slow and aren't suited to how he wants to play, and that his 50M fullbacks can't cross.

We seems to have the notion that if he served under SAF he must be good enough, if he knows where the kitchen is he must be good enough, if he knows our culture (what is our culture btw?) he definitely can make us play like one. Which is all bollocks. Most of us speaks English here quite fluently, but I doubt many of us could ended up become a BA lecturer at community college, let alone the top 1% university. Which is what we expect from Ole, a PE teacher teaching at rural Norway suddenly puts in charge at Cambridge , not only as a lecturer but as the complete package to oversee the whole University.


This is not a post, it is actual journalism. Congrats on the writing and I was nodding in agreement all the way.
 
Ole was an excellent appointment.

He came in and steadied the ship, as a popular club legend to see out a season. He did exactly what he was appointed for and more.

He was (correctly) not initially chosen to lead Man Utd into a new era, because it's just not something he's capable of. He has extremely limited experience, and it is clear he is not a top tactician. Regardless of what the core issue is (players, signings, whatever), OGS is not a top manager that is going to win top trophies, so why bother carrying on? Every game he is in charge now is wasted time that should be being given to a manager who at least has the potential to make Man Utd one of the best teams in the world.
 
Another ''seesaw' result, when will people/fans learn before they call OleOuters not real fan. We have been 2 years in a rollercoaster and this has to stop! The league form is appalling, he needs to go and be replaced by a PROPER manager!
 
Knee jerk reactions all over place. As expected after a draw or lost game.

Sure not a good result and Solskjaer needs to do more to get us out from this position but he is still the man to lead us. Players need to be blamed for this to and you don't see people talking about sacking them.
Rince and repeat same sentence for the past 2 year. Wake up.
 
For me, he has done a very good 'firefighting' job. He addressed a-lot of the issues at the club and has build up a nice squad.

He's exceeded my expectations in what I thought he could achieve results wise, though my bar for him was very low. I think it's time to now hand the throne over to someone who will progress us tactically, instill a settled system and get us challenging.
 
Look at Ralph Hasenhüttl at Southampton - a 9-0 defeat by Leicester and what a response he has got out of his players, who shall we say, are of a lesser quality than the ones currently at United. Dynamic, fight for each other and now sitting 4th in the PL. Ole just hasn't got it. Whether it's lack of respect in the dressing room, lack of tactical nous or a combination of both, for me his time should come to an end. The performances are no improvement on the backend of last season, in fact they look worse. Sad times.
There's been plenty of investment so the board can't be blamed - I'm sick of hearing this argument. It's the technical setup on the pitch and the man-management / motivational skills that are severely lacking.
 
Ole has been managing his 100th games for United, at this point he should have his formation/philosophy/tactics well taught to his players. Yet each of them are clueless on what to do, what their teammates does, no cohesion at all, except when we play counter attacking, which I consider as Primal Instinct football that relies on player's basic instinct to attack empty spaces. While not every team needs to be a tiki-taka proponent I'd expect a certain savvy and swagger from a Manchester United team, we were never a very tactical team under SAF but we sure can handle our balls when pressed, we seldom dilly dallying with the balls but we do keep our balls when the push comes to the shoves. Everyone knows where everyone is, when you press one player he have avenue to release the ball, the off the ball movement is subtle yet always presence. This video is actually Ronaldo's debut compilation, but the amount of passing between our old side is visible, we seldom lose the ball. There's no fancy skills / trick necessary, just moving to the right place and making the right pass, basically football 101.


For me the greatest indication of a good coach is how systematic he can get his teams rolling, and how fast he could attain it. That's what separates the real manager and the lucky go happy manager. They might not get the best results and probably won't win a trophy but their work in the team is solid, visible, and regardless of whether they work or don't you actually see what they're trying to do.




It's like seeing a Roman Battle formation, they know exactly what to do, where to push, which flank to cover, even if they lose being sucker punched you know that 8/10 they'd won their fight. With Ole it's more like a bunch of savage barbarian baying for blood when they feel up for it, and meekly contained / routed when they don't feel like showing up. Ole's team leave too much to chances we're seeing what we're seeing, a very erratic result. You need defensive stability first and foremost, you need the mainframe of a tactics, the doctrine, then you tweak a little here and there to suit different opponent.

I haven't seen the big formation up until today, and it's been 100 games it's worrying. I doubt Ole has what it takes and if he indeed understand the fine arts of battle formation (cough... football tactics)

1. What are we trying to do? Was it contain? Was it counter? Was it Gegenpress? Was it route one? Most baffling stuff for me is the high press when we're actually a counter attacking team. It's just logically contradictory. I'm not a fans of counter attacking football, but if you must play it like that at least play it like Jose, soak the pressure up, defend deep, exploit spaces with pace and directness. You don't play counter attacking and camp at your opponent half, you'll only make things harder.

2. No clear vision on player purchase. The direct result of no.1, not knowing full well how we wants to play we ended up buying players that are tactically hampering our own. A slow CB, a weak going forward RB, a Left Winger who's pretty bog standard technically. Bruno was a fine player, but I chalk it up as luck, he's just good enough, but he could be much better in a more tactical team that's build correctly. When you put Zidane in our team he doesn't suddenly becomes Djemba2, but putting him in the France team he'll become something else, the Maestro. My point is that Bruno is the shit that sticks on the wall.

3. Ole is clueless to the whole situation, he doesn't know what he's lacking, he's the dwarf in the middle of the melee he can't see where/what/how/who and when things' happening. It's very simple to notice, he never got up his seat and barks instructions. It only indicates that he's either "happy with what his players are showing" or "doesn't know what to do with it" or "doesn't know that whatever it is it's not working". Pep/Klopp even SAF are animated near the sidelines, not because they're showing off, but because they see something they don't like, and constantly reminding / demanding / changing / inspecting / analyzing / watching for changes in the battlefield like a proper strategist. When the opponent make instructions, they're there to see and adapt. Our beloved Ole seems clueless that Jose is targeting Shaw and bombards our slow CB with pace, that's basic error you can't make at top level football.

Playing football is pretty basic for some of us, but I always believe that at the top level every 0.1% is the difference between winning and losing. The amount of details pep went through is insane, he even analyzed the way some players trap a ball and make improvements. Now some of us probably thinks that's a lot of bull and all we need is go out there and enjoy the game, which I think it's a lot of crap. Anyone that has any experiences in a competitive sports would know that you need a lot more than simply go out and enjoy your game. Other professions and sports such as E-sport, NFL, Basketball, Chess, even Michelin star chef pays lots of attention to the finer details, which is the 1% extra that differentiates you and the rest. Our team and fans attitude towards this is often underestimating and sniffling at, as if it's our god's given right to win a football match just by showing up.

Often we heard lines as "Play pogba in Diamond" or "Play 3 at the back" or " X is not a 6 he's an 8" as if they understand what it really meant. Do you know that between Johan Cruyff and Ole Gunnar Solksjaer they actually play the same formation : 433. Some call it 4321, some call it 433, it's just a number. Any bored kids at school used to make mockup formations,



What Cruyft draw and What I draw and What Ole Draw is probably the same thing, but the applications on the field is night and day. It's not about formation, but the finer details that lies within. What to pass, where to press, triangles, diamonds, collective positioning, 2 on 1, 3 on 2, and lot of the finer details. Any ex footballer can pretend to be a football manager, but you really need to be the master of the arts to squeeze that last 1%. And that 1% in the longer run of the campaign is the difference between champion and runner up. Even in buying player you'll devote an extra amount of attention to details, just like SAF even analyze their mentality. Our coach seems to fail at basic analyzing that his 80M defender are too slow and aren't suited to how he wants to play, and that his 50M fullbacks can't cross.

We seems to have the notion that if he served under SAF he must be good enough, if he knows where the kitchen is he must be good enough, if he knows our culture (what is our culture btw?) he definitely can make us play like one. Which is all bollocks. Most of us speaks English here quite fluently, but I doubt many of us could ended up become a BA lecturer at community college, let alone the top 1% university. Which is what we expect from Ole, a PE teacher teaching at rural Norway suddenly puts in charge at Cambridge , not only as a lecturer but as the complete package to oversee the whole University.

Top post brother
 
I think the 'Ole out' crowd and the 'Ole in' crowd agree more than you'd initially think. It's just that they focus on different things and cherry pick arguments to support their case. Let's go over the 3 most important points(in my opinon) to illustrate this:

1. The result of Ole's first full season
Last season was Ole's first full season in charge and ultimately the most important "test" so far. Practically no one expected us to make a title challenge. Top 4 was always the goal, with 3rd place being the highest realistic position. These statements/predictions were made after the summer transfer window and before Pogba got injured and we had to use Lingard/Pereira for half the season. The 'Ole in' crowd believes that getting 3rd place under this context is a good achievement. The other crowd believes that 3rd place still more or less was the minimum requirement, even with Lingard and Pereira leading the attacks. The key point remains the same though: whether you are 'Ole in' or 'Ole out', 99% of you did not expect us to outplace Liverpool and City.

2. Ole's current squad
Now we're getting into Ole's second full season and demands are obviously getting higher. But the question remains: how good is the squad on paper? Again the two groups(Ole in/out) disagree on the strength of the squad. The 'Ole out' crowd is generally reasonable enough to admit that we still aren't better than Liverpool or City on paper. The key difference is basically whether or not you believe that 3rd is a minimum requirement or not. But the key point is the same: it's not reasonable to expect a position higher than 3rd based on the current squad. This is true whether you are Ole in or not.

3. Ole's ability to turn the season around
The final point deals with the current predicament. Is it realistic for Ole to turn this season around? The 'Ole in' crowd obviously think so, but I have a hard time believing that most Ole out'ers disagree. There are 32 games left and we have one game in hand. This could be turned around in a matter of weeks! In fact, I'd argue that turning this around is significantly easier than turning last season around was. We have empirical evidence that it's more than possible. Your opinion on Ole decides your optimism, but even the most pessimistic fan can't reasonably claim that the season already is fecked(or close to it).

_______________________________________

Conclusion:
Both sides are seemingly fine with the end result of Ole's first full season(i.e. not outplacing Liverpool and City).
Both sides agree that City and Liverpool still are better teams.
Both sides(probably) understand that the season is still young and that 3rd place(the "agreed upon" goal) still is a reasonable possibility.

If my conclusion is right: why in the world are people freaking out? I honestly don't get it.

Test 1 = Job done.
Test 2 = Pending. 85% of the season remains.
 
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Top post above me, logically sound and fact based. Kudos!

Ole should have the full season to prove his mettle, 3rd/4th place and less gap to the front 2 should be a minimum requirement. Failing this we should get another manager I'd say.

Probably should reach a final in one of the cups as well.

Far far too early to make any kind of judgment as last year showed us.
 
At this point we have to look at the results, if we get CL he’ll stay, and rightly so. If we don’t get CL, he’ll lose his job, and rightly so. All my opinion, of course, but the rest is just noise for me. I enjoy about 50% of our games now, which is up about 49% from Mourinho.
 

I never get behind abusing club legends but Neville has become a twat and somewhat of a virus. You're literally doing the same thing you'd say the manager's sceptics are doing with this blame game. It's not like the players have stopped trying. If you want to say the squad needs improvements one can do so without putting everyone down like him and Keane tend to do, maybe asides Pogba who I'd shoot in a cannon. Liverpool's attackers and midfielders for example weren't bad players before VVD joined.
 
I never get behind abusing club legends but Neville has become a twat and somewhat of a virus. You're literally doing the same thing you'd say the manager's sceptics are doing with this blame game. It's not like the players have stopped trying. If you want to say the squad needs improvements one can do so without putting everyone down like him and Keane tend to do, maybe asides Pogba who I'd shoot in a cannon. Liverpool's attackers and midfielders for example weren't bad players before VVD joined.
Neville is an imbecile on the commentary/analysis these days.
 
We need to beat Everton or there will be a new level of division on the caf, and among fans I fear. If we lose I can see Neville being asked the question on Skysports, and expecting him to fully back the manager as he always has.
I think with Martial back we should expect a good response at the weekend.
 
I think with Martial back we should expect a good response at the weekend.
Yep I would think so. We will need this to continue versus West Brom, Southampton and West Ham as a bare minimum. That takes us to 15th December.

What is really frustrating is a stupid international break again. They should really scrap this especially with covid. No one gives a shit about it.
 
I would get Roy Keane is as assistant manger he would shake the fecking lot of them up.That“s what they need a good wake up call.Yesterday was a shambles from start to finish,if we make top 4 it will be a miracle.
 
Is he going to lead us back to the top? No
So we’re simply delaying the inevitable and wasting money and time in the process.

If he wasn’t a United legend, he’d be gone ages ago. Saying that he wouldn’t have had the job in the first place based on his credentials as a manager. No one can deny that.

QFT ....although some on here would
 
Yep I would think so. We will need this to continue versus West Brom, Southampton and West Ham as a bare minimum. That takes us to 15th December.

What is really frustrating is a stupid international break again. They should really scrap this especially with covid. No one gives a shit about it.

Agree about the International break, its becoming annoying now.
 
Anyone hoping Ole will get sacked before top-four is no longer attainable is going to be bitterly disappointed.

He'll be in charge for the majority of the season barring a catastrophic run of results.
 
I never get behind abusing club legends but Neville has become a twat and somewhat of a virus. You're literally doing the same thing you'd say the manager's sceptics are doing with this blame game. It's not like the players have stopped trying. If you want to say the squad needs improvements one can do so without putting everyone down like him and Keane tend to do, maybe asides Pogba who I'd shoot in a cannon. Liverpool's attackers and midfielders for example weren't bad players before VVD joined.

I never get behind abusing club legends--- but then you do it anyway by calling Nev a twat and virus. So life according to Greck is that you are allowed your opinion-- but God forbid anyone else is allowed an opinion that differs from you.

When you have 7 points after 6 games and the team is grossly underperforming, then yes--- people are going to get criticized and there is plenty of blame to go around. What do you want Nev to say? Everything's fine, United will be challenging for titles in no time? Give me a break man. He is allowed his opinion just as much as anyone else, you included. Just because you disagree with him, doesn't mean you should really go around calling him a twat now? Now that Nev knows Greck's feelings will be hurt if he is critical of the club-- I'm sure he will now toe the company line and say next time that the Glazers, Ole and the players are great- and it's just bad luck that they are doing poorly in the league.

You are quite a piece of work. You criticize Keane and Nev for putting people down-- but then you think it's ok to put Pogba down, (and Nev down.) Quite the hypocrite you are.

Oh, and Ole isn't good enough to win the title. Ever. And that's the bare minimum of what United fans should expect from their manager. Not the Arsene Wenger top 4 trophy, but the League Title. So feel free to call me a twat-- I'll take it as a compliment coming from you.
 
Anyone hoping Ole will get sacked before top-four is no longer attainable is going to be bitterly disappointed.

And rightfully so. When I look at the current set of players, I don't see champions. Not yet at least.

Top 4 remains the goal.
 
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