This post is all over the place. My guess is you were trying to sound profound. For what it's worth I don't even think Ole should be a manager at any top club so I'm not sure what you're getting at or even what you thought my post was trying to say
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Outside if the Newcastle result we shouldn't have any points on the board. Brighton were extremely unlucky and Chelsea should have had a penalty. I am seriously fecking worried and if anyone thinks we are going beyond the next round in Europe they need to open their eyes. We will probably get wins in our next two European games that'll be enough but I doubt we will beat PSG or RB if their coaches do their homework. As for the league, well, look at our position.
The swiftness of the Jose sacking makes me think (hope) the board have realised the error in their previous approach.
Waiting for it to be too late to be fixed is the most ridiculous things they can and have done.
He should get a minimum of 80 points regardless of how high we finish on the table. Anything less than that and he should be sacked...
I think the Jose sacking falls under "catastrophic run of results". I highly doubt Ole is safe if we are 11 points behind 4th place around Christmas and he's completely lost the squad and is acting like a moron in the media.
I honestly can’t see how a new manager is going to turn your present squad into world beaters and a sorry indictment of 7 years of poor recruitment blowing £1billion in the process. I would start with sorting out the boardroom, developing a long term recruitment strategy identifying the players that will fit the system you want to play and offload those that don’t fit in.
I take exception to this. On paper we have a terrific squad, there is severe underrating on the qualities of our players when deployed in a well drilled system. I think the problem is that we have not had the chance to see how it fares as such.
Our last manager took a similar quality squad to 81 points - although his style was not compatible with our club ethos. I think managers with an element of pedigree can achieve special things with the talent in our squad.
So 70 points getting 2nd should make him sacked then? Hard to take you serious
I reckon this season that 84 points will win the title, so getting to 80 points would likely make you runners-up - hard to see that happening.Also, in order to get 80 points, you need an average of 2.28 points per match for the remaining 32 games. Quite a turnaround when you only averaged 1.17 points from your first 6 games. In other words, it ain’t going to happen regardless of who manages you.
You're just repeating all the stuff you've heard on United twitter. The present squad isn't bad, dare I say it's the most promising in a while. Ole may not be a United manager but he has at least done some good with the squad that can be built on
A terrific squad if you assume the players you acquired were worth what you paid for them. However, many of them are distinctly average based upon their performances. Pogba, Fred, Shaw, Wan Bissaca, Maguire, James? Please, get real. As for Cavani, it’s just a good end of career benefit year for him. Reminds me of Falcao who scored just 4 goals in 26 appearances for you.
So, who would you replace OGS with? As to your squad quality, I remain unconvinced. Let’s see how you fare in the next 6 PL games.
I don’t know about that. The manner in which we’ve been defeated at home to palace, Spurs and Arsenal would have Ed alarmed.
Recall the brutal way in which LVG was sacked. Ed knew a better candidate was available and did not hesitate to move for Jose when the chance presented itself. The club has always been enamoured by Poch, so I wouldn’t be surprised if discussions have already taken place between intermediaries. If by December the poor run continues and we’re miles from top 4, the club will pull the trigger and sack Ole and hire Poch.
So you're convinced of our manager's quality but unconvinced of our squad. What criteria are you actually using here?
Maybe we should have a poll of where we will finish in the league if Ole manages this whole season?
Absolutely spot on, couldn't of put it better myself.
I call 7 points out of a possible 18 catastrophic for a team like United.
Why are the players playing poorly? This is what you need to answer.
Wan Bissaka was one of the top right backs in the league before he joined us, you can't deny Bruno's creative brilliance, VDB is being overlooked and Maguire is a steady player if he isn't exposed with 2 creators in a 4231 (which is what Ole did vs Palace, Spurs, Brighton). These are "average" performances by highly talented players. If it's one player that's constantly sub-par then sure you might have a situation where the player is failing on the manager. But when the collective is inconsistent, when we have no set formation to get the best out of a talented group, and when we fail so miserably in implementing a press - it's comes down to the manager.
You cannot honestly expect us to believe other candidates would be getting in the same level of points. That would be crazy. Take Nagelsmann, Poch, Allegri, Simeone as all examples of varying philosophies, they would look at the squad and have a field day. They have defensive work horses, composed play makers, creative outlets, lethal finishes, pacey players, broadly defensively aware back 4 and a top goalkeeper. It's BS to suggest the squad isn't talented. It's vastly talented in fact.
Exactly - the arguments about the squad are so weak now. We have bought in so many players who were good before they joined us and then their form tails off.
Our squad is actually really good, we have depth and we have some characters I really like as players Martial, Rashford, VdB, Bruno, AWB, Fred. We are very simply mismanaged.
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Was Solskjaer even interested in most of those players? Maybe you should blame him for that...
Was Solskjaer even interested in most of those players? Maybe you should blame him for that...
Some people here got really irked when I said after PSG win this feel good will last only 2 to 3 games. Ole is not somebody who can win you leagues. We may end up winning some cup, but he us not somebody who can take us to the next level. We need Pochettino.
I agree, there are a lot of quality players in the squad but they are steadily loosing confidence and performances reflect thia. Even the most talented of players look mediocre when their confidence goes, Bruno is a typical example. Ole and his coaching team just lack the experience at this level. He has not served a proper apprenticeship working alongside or under an established manager who has a proven track record at the top of our game. Ole is tactically inept and performances reflect this as it seems players are being played out of position and play a system, or lack of one, that they has not been properly coached. Ole, a legend and nice guy, but must go s. a. p. for the clubs sake as well as his own. Poch could well be the guy, I would definitely get him in, as something has to be done before things get worse and players loose every ounce of confidence then start questioning their own ability.
No, we actually never heard anything substantial about a defensive midfielder.
You don't even have a remote idea what exactly is happening at United. We have moved away from the fire drill approach and has been more focused on what's needed.
For a start just name one player who we actually signed without a plan ? You will have to go back to Sanchez back in 2017. We had opportunity to sign Bale, Dembele , Reguilon this summer and we politely declined. We could have gone for a cheaper option to Sancho or paid 120m for him. We didn't and rightly so.
A 2013-14 United would have signed Bale or Perisic by now.
So last year wasn't a good year from year before? It wasn't a progress?
I don't know why people are talking about Mourinho. It wasn't because of results he got sacked, even if results were not that good. It was because of his behaviour towards end. It can't be that hard to understand,?
Precisely this. In other words, squad is not performing to its potential and thats upto the manager and coaching staff.
Also, Please stop moaning about not getting a 120m signing during a pandemic. Just make sure you get the best out of existing players. No one is asking for a title challenge here.
Look at the upcoming league fixtures.
Unless there's a massive turn around, starting immediately with the next league game, that statistic is going to look much, much worst by Christmas.
November....
Everton - Away
WBA - Home
Southampton - Away
December (not inc. 2 CL & 1 EFL quarter final).....
West Ham - Away
City - Home
Sheffield Utd - Away
Leeds - Home
Leicester - Away
Wolves - Home
.
Jose did it with Jones and Smalling at the back.
Points dont mean crap all.
Ole for all his weaknesses has left the club in a better state for the next manager.
Ole has been managing his 100th games for United, at this point he should have his formation/philosophy/tactics well taught to his players. Yet each of them are clueless on what to do, what their teammates does, no cohesion at all, except when we play counter attacking, which I consider as Primal Instinct football that relies on player's basic instinct to attack empty spaces. While not every team needs to be a tiki-taka proponent I'd expect a certain savvy and swagger from a Manchester United team, we were never a very tactical team under SAF but we sure can handle our balls when pressed, we seldom dilly dallying with the balls but we do keep our balls when the push comes to the shoves. Everyone knows where everyone is, when you press one player he have avenue to release the ball, the off the ball movement is subtle yet always presence. This video is actually Ronaldo's debut compilation, but the amount of passing between our old side is visible, we seldom lose the ball. There's no fancy skills / trick necessary, just moving to the right place and making the right pass, basically football 101.
For me the greatest indication of a good coach is how systematic he can get his teams rolling, and how fast he could attain it. That's what separates the real manager and the lucky go happy manager. They might not get the best results and probably won't win a trophy but their work in the team is solid, visible, and regardless of whether they work or don't you actually see what they're trying to do.
It's like seeing a Roman Battle formation, they know exactly what to do, where to push, which flank to cover, even if they lose being sucker punched you know that 8/10 they'd won their fight. With Ole it's more like a bunch of savage barbarian baying for blood when they feel up for it, and meekly contained / routed when they don't feel like showing up. Ole's team leave too much to chances we're seeing what we're seeing, a very erratic result. You need defensive stability first and foremost, you need the mainframe of a tactics, the doctrine, then you tweak a little here and there to suit different opponent.
I haven't seen the big formation up until today, and it's been 100 games it's worrying. I doubt Ole has what it takes and if he indeed understand the fine arts of battle formation (cough... football tactics)
1. What are we trying to do? Was it contain? Was it counter? Was it Gegenpress? Was it route one? Most baffling stuff for me is the high press when we're actually a counter attacking team. It's just logically contradictory. I'm not a fans of counter attacking football, but if you must play it like that at least play it like Jose, soak the pressure up, defend deep, exploit spaces with pace and directness. You don't play counter attacking and camp at your opponent half, you'll only make things harder.
2. No clear vision on player purchase. The direct result of no.1, not knowing full well how we wants to play we ended up buying players that are tactically hampering our own. A slow CB, a weak going forward RB, a Left Winger who's pretty bog standard technically. Bruno was a fine player, but I chalk it up as luck, he's just good enough, but he could be much better in a more tactical team that's build correctly. When you put Zidane in our team he doesn't suddenly becomes Djemba2, but putting him in the France team he'll become something else, the Maestro. My point is that Bruno is the shit that sticks on the wall.
3. Ole is clueless to the whole situation, he doesn't know what he's lacking, he's the dwarf in the middle of the melee he can't see where/what/how/who and when things' happening. It's very simple to notice, he never got up his seat and barks instructions. It only indicates that he's either "happy with what his players are showing" or "doesn't know what to do with it" or "doesn't know that whatever it is it's not working". Pep/Klopp even SAF are animated near the sidelines, not because they're showing off, but because they see something they don't like, and constantly reminding / demanding / changing / inspecting / analyzing / watching for changes in the battlefield like a proper strategist. When the opponent make instructions, they're there to see and adapt. Our beloved Ole seems clueless that Jose is targeting Shaw and bombards our slow CB with pace, that's basic error you can't make at top level football.
Playing football is pretty basic for some of us, but I always believe that at the top level every 0.1% is the difference between winning and losing. The amount of details pep went through is insane, he even analyzed the way some players trap a ball and make improvements. Now some of us probably thinks that's a lot of bull and all we need is go out there and enjoy the game, which I think it's a lot of crap. Anyone that has any experiences in a competitive sports would know that you need a lot more than simply go out and enjoy your game. Other professions and sports such as E-sport, NFL, Basketball, Chess, even Michelin star chef pays lots of attention to the finer details, which is the 1% extra that differentiates you and the rest. Our team and fans attitude towards this is often underestimating and sniffling at, as if it's our god's given right to win a football match just by showing up.
Often we heard lines as "Play pogba in Diamond" or "Play 3 at the back" or " X is not a 6 he's an 8" as if they understand what it really meant. Do you know that between Johan Cruyff and Ole Gunnar Solksjaer they actually play the same formation : 433. Some call it 4321, some call it 433, it's just a number. Any bored kids at school used to make mockup formations,
What Cruyft draw and What I draw and What Ole Draw is probably the same thing, but the applications on the field is night and day. It's not about formation, but the finer details that lies within. What to pass, where to press, triangles, diamonds, collective positioning, 2 on 1, 3 on 2, and lot of the finer details. Any ex footballer can pretend to be a football manager, but you really need to be the master of the arts to squeeze that last 1%. And that 1% in the longer run of the campaign is the difference between champion and runner up. Even in buying player you'll devote an extra amount of attention to details, just like SAF even analyze their mentality. Our coach seems to fail at basic analyzing that his 80M defender are too slow and aren't suited to how he wants to play, and that his 50M fullbacks can't cross.
We seems to have the notion that if he served under SAF he must be good enough, if he knows where the kitchen is he must be good enough, if he knows our culture (what is our culture btw?) he definitely can make us play like one. Which is all bollocks. Most of us speaks English here quite fluently, but I doubt many of us could ended up become a BA lecturer at community college, let alone the top 1% university. Which is what we expect from Ole, a PE teacher teaching at rural Norway suddenly puts in charge at Cambridge , not only as a lecturer but as the complete package to oversee the whole University.
I can feel your pain brother. Great post
Hard to take serious a manager who thinks getting 60 points with one of the most expensive squads is good enough....
Saw this on Reddit:
Too true.
Well he all know he hasn't got it in him to get rid of them two so won't be beating any team who press the shit out of us any time soon
All parties are at fault but lack of a plan B is completely on Ole's shoulders and that is fact
It doesn’t feel like it did when Jose was going, at that point we disliked so many of the players and they didn’t seem nearly as talented as the lot we have now.
Our squad is far from perfect, but it’s a lot better than it was twelve months ago and Ole deserves credit for that. That doesn’t really matter though when we’re still having the same inconsistent, slow performances that we had when James and Pereira were starting every week.
I don’t massively rate managers like Poch and Allegri, but looking at the team we have now you have to wonder if someone else could take us a bit further. I really like Hassenhuttl from Southampton, he could be a really decent option.
Our squad is far from perfect, but it’s a lot better than it was twelve months ago and Ole deserves credit for that. That doesn’t really matter though when we’re still having the same inconsistent, slow performances that we had when James and Pereira were starting every week.
I don’t massively rate managers like Poch and Allegri, but looking at the team we have now you have to wonder if someone else could take us a bit further. I really like Hassenhuttl from Southampton, he could be a really decent option.
Absolutely spot on but you know that sadly sentimentality is our middle name and the board don't give a shit about how we feel at all
Credit for that maybe but still should have gone in May 2019 because looks out of his depth when we aren't given the freedom of the pitch
Crazy how 70% of this doesn't look like easy wins. I actually thought we would have fixtures we could breeze through after these last tough games but there are teams in there that can cause problems
The myth of the manager not being able to get the best out of the players and now the players not playing for the manager. It keeps changing. So long as Ole's friends are in the media this will be the narrative. With Jose he was not being able to motivate and get the best out of his players. With Ole, it is that the players are not motivating themselves.
The reality no player is going to coast through games. Not even Pogba. But they also know that the Manager needs to give them a chance to win games. In their mind they should know that this is system that gives them a chance and if they find out during the match that they are getting over run they expect the manager to bring instant changes.
These are not stupid players. One of them has won the WC. One has won the WC, Euros, the CL, and everything to win apart from the PL. They have been under better managers. Top class coaches and they know what is going on. As professional players they are not going to question the Manager but deep inside they know from what they are going through that this is not good enough.
The reality no player is going to coast through games. Not even Pogba. But they also know that the Manager needs to give them a chance to win games. In their mind they should know that this is system that gives them a chance and if they find out during the match that they are getting over run they expect the manager to bring instant changes.
These are not stupid players. One of them has won the WC. One has won the WC, Euros, the CL, and everything to win apart from the PL. They have been under better managers. Top class coaches and they know what is going on. As professional players they are not going to question the Manager but deep inside they know from what they are going through that this is not good enough.
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