Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[croadyman]

Last home win was 4th July against Bournemouth. Since then we have had the following results:

2-2 Southampton (H)
1-1 Westham (H)
1-3 Palace (H)
1-6 Spurs (H)
0-0 Chelsea (H)
0-1 Arsenal (H)

We have taken 3 points at home out of our last 18. We have scored 5 and conceded 13. How he survived the Spurs defeat was remarkable. We are 15th in the league, already 9 points behind Liverpool after 6/7 games.

How people can defend Ole is beyond me. Results are not good enough, performances are not good enough, the transfer window wasnt good enough. Get him out with his inept coaches.

Yeah that Spurs result would have ended many a management reign around europe but we are too soft

 

[croadyman]

What is the least number of points we’ve earned after 6 matches in the Premier League era?
Point-wise, I think this is our joint worst start to the PL season after six matches alongside the 2013/14 season with Moyes.
And it could have been worse if VAR spotted the Maguire penalty in the Chelsea match!

Yeah and Brighton had more luck

 

[croadyman]

I've no doubt we'll win on wednesday, but this time next week this place will be miserable once again.

Yeah because Carlo will have Everton very fired up after their last two showings,a win on Wednesday will not change my mind on Ole at all

 

[Bebestation]

It doesn’t feel like it did when Jose was going, at that point we disliked so many of the players and they didn’t seem nearly as talented as the lot we have now.
Our squad is far from perfect, but it’s a lot better than it was twelve months ago and Ole deserves credit for that. That doesn’t really matter though when we’re still having the same inconsistent, slow performances that we had when James and Pereira were starting every week.
I don’t massively rate managers like Poch and Allegri, but looking at the team we have now you have to wonder if someone else could take us a bit further. I really like Hassenhuttl from Southampton, he could be a really decent option.

And this is what I mean to.

Solskjaer has generally bought a better quality of player and reshaped the squad better than the previous managers have. Maybe not the perfect player but if people cant see the use of AWB vs Darmian or Bruno over Mkhitaryan then there is no reason to talk about it.

Ultimately even if he isnt managing them the best - I feel like as an ex player of the club he maybe knows a certain standard required at the club when it comes to a player.

I'm quite excited about the manager that takes over this squad even though I have my preferences.

 

[bsCallout]

So, who would you replace OGS with? As to your squad quality, I remain unconvinced. Let’s see how you fare in the next 6 PL games.

You don't make any sense.

This whole thread is about whether the manager is getting the best out of this squad but you're going to judge the squad on the next 6 games that have the same manager in charge that is being questioned.

 

[Greck]

Yeah because Carlo will have Everton very fired up after their last two showings,a win on Wednesday will not change my mind on Ole at all

That's usually when we win. Might even trounce them 4-0 with 3 late goals off the counter to start a new false dawn cycle

 

[bsCallout]

Last home win was 4th July against Bournemouth. Since then we have had the following results:

2-2 Southampton (H)
1-1 Westham (H)
1-3 Palace (H)
1-6 Spurs (H)
0-0 Chelsea (H)
0-1 Arsenal (H)

We have taken 3 points at home out of our last 18. We have scored 5 and conceded 13. How he survived the Spurs defeat was remarkable. We are 15th in the league, already 9 points behind Liverpool after 6/7 games.

How people can defend Ole is beyond me. Results are not good enough, performances are not good enough, the transfer window wasnt good enough. Get him out with his inept coaches.

I guess one argument to this would be the fact that Poch did worse than that when he was fired but people want to replace Ole with Poch.

So I don't like saying look at this period of his tenure and it isn't good enough he must go.

Now there is definitely a fair argument that he isn't doing enough with this squad, and when you watch us it is quite clear, when it's a bad day. The snapshot of results is irrelevant to that though. Especially when there are two incredible results against PSG and Leipzig in there.

Using the transfer window isn't fair to use against a manager either. We don't know who he wanted or who he did want relative to who we got.

He probably wanted Sancho, Haaland, Sancho, Bruno for example. Not his fault if he didn't get them or get them quick enough.

The problem with Ole seems very simple to me - he can't get this team to play good week in week out. Our performances against PSG & Leipzig show what this team can do. The job of our manager is to get a performance like that every week. Ole is failing massively there.

 

[croadyman]

Anyone hoping Ole will get sacked before top-four is no longer attainable is going to be bitterly disappointed.

He'll be in charge for the majority of the season barring a catastrophic run of results.

Ugh yet more teams putting the press on and Ole just sitting there not having the tactical nous to do anything about it

 

[1974_Fergie_Time]

Pochettino is waiting. Makes no sense why we don't go and get him. If we aren't counter attacking, we have 0 ideas on how to move the ball up the pitch. Not just create. Move the ball up the pitch. It's pathetic.

I think Poch is on a year contract with Spurs that ends on 19th of November

I think Man Utd have had a retainer on him

So around International break if we want Poch he'll be free to get

One thing I worry about is does Poch want to manage a club that is in such a mess
as Man Utd

 

[VP89]

I think Poch is on a year contract with Spurs that ends on 19th of November

I think Man Utd have had a retainer on him

So around International break if we want Poch he'll be free to get

One thing I worry about is does Poch want to manage a club that is in such a mess
as Man Utd

Where'd you read that? They released him didn't they?

 

[Ralph1386]

I always said that Ole is the manager who will lay good foundations for the next manager. He may be out of his depth but the bigger problem is the board and the owners.

Even if we fire Ole, the next manager will have to deal with Woody and the Glazers.

 

[croadyman]

Why are the players playing poorly? This is what you need to answer.
Wan Bissaka was one of the top right backs in the league before he joined us, you can't deny Bruno's creative brilliance, VDB is being overlooked and Maguire is a steady player if he isn't exposed with 2 creators in a 4231 (which is what Ole did vs Palace, Spurs, Brighton). These are "average" performances by highly talented players. If it's one player that's constantly sub-par then sure you might have a situation where the player is failing on the manager. But when the collective is inconsistent, when we have no set formation to get the best out of a talented group, and when we fail so miserably in implementing a press - it's comes down to the manager.

You cannot honestly expect us to believe other candidates would be getting in the same level of points. That would be crazy. Take Nagelsmann, Poch, Allegri, Simeone as all examples of varying philosophies, they would look at the squad and have a field day. They have defensive work horses, composed play makers, creative outlets, lethal finishes, pacey players, broadly defensively aware back 4 and a top goalkeeper. It's BS to suggest the squad isn't talented. It's vastly talented in fact.

Yeah we need someone tactically flexible and sorry to say Ole supporters that will just never be him

 

[VP89]

I always said that Ole is the manager who will lay good foundations for the next manager. He may be out of his depth but the bigger problem is the board and the owners.

Even if we fire Ole, the next manager will have to deal with Woody and the Glazers.

Even though I'm convinced Ole needs to move on for us to progress, I do agree he's laid some good foundations by way of correcting the club ethos and getting better characters into the squad.

 

[croadyman]

No, we actually never heard anything substantial about a defensive midfielder.

Never signing one under Ole,he loves Fred & Scotty far too much for that

 

[TJ Reid]

You don't make any sense.

This whole thread is about whether the manager is getting the best out of this squad but you're going to judge the squad on the next 6 games that have the same manager in charge that is being questioned.

My point is that Ole is not the problem or at least I can’t see any other manager do better because of the lack of quality in the squad - something which I expect will become obvious after the next 6 games

 

[red4ever 79]

I guess one argument to this would be the fact that Poch did worse than that when he was fired but people want to replace Ole with Poch.

So I don't like saying look at this period of his tenure and it isn't good enough he must go.

Now there is definitely a fair argument that he isn't doing enough with this squad, and when you watch us it is quite clear, when it's a bad day. The snapshot of results is irrelevant to that though. Especially when there are two incredible results against PSG and Leipzig in there.

Using the transfer window isn't fair to use against a manager either. We don't know who he wanted or who he did want relative to who we got.

He probably wanted Sancho, Haaland, Sancho, Bruno for example. Not his fault if he didn't get them or get them quick enough.

The problem with Ole seems very simple to me - he can't get this team to play good week in week out. Our performances against PSG & Leipzig show what this team can do. The job of our manager is to get a performance like that every week. Ole is failing massively there.

No idea what you are talking about. We are 15th. We have been spanked 6-1 at home to Spurs. we are 9 points behind the leaders already.

 

[bsCallout]

No idea what you are talking about. We are 15th. We have been spanked 6-1 at home to Spurs. we are 9 points behind the leaders already.

So basically you didn't read it. Because it was elaborated on very clearly and ultimately agreed with the sentiment, just not the way you've got there.

Congrats on being able to say a few damning stats. Although even then you conveniently didn't mention that if we win our game in hand we are only 6 points off top. Doesn't sound so bad then though does it.

 

[croadyman]

That's usually when we win. Might even trounce them 4-0 with 3 late goals off the counter to start a new false dawn cycle

Don't expect Everton to open up and give us the space we got afforded by Newcastle & Leipzig

So basically you didn't read it. Because it was elaborated on very clearly and ultimately agreed with the sentiment, just not the way you've got there.

Congrats on being able to say a few damning stats. Although even then you conveniently didn't mention that if we win our game in hand we are only 6 points off top. Doesn't sound so bad then though does it.

Still has no answer to teams who press us high and that I am afraid is why he isn't the right man for this club

 

[Maluco]

This doesn’t need to be rocket science. Every club has issues at board level and organizational problems. The most important position at any club, and crucially, the one that is easiest to improve, is the head coach and his staff.

It’s absolute rubbish to suggest that this squad of players shouldn’t be doing better. An Arsenal fan is in here feeling confident about his team based on yesterday’s result, but we have a far better squad than arsenal. The problem yesterday, as it is so many times, is that the team was set up wrong and players didn’t seem to know what they were doing.

It’s time to stop messing around with managers who had their best teams 10-20 years ago (van Gaal and Mourinho) or coaches who are not the required standard (Moyes and Ole)

Let’s get a progressive, modern coach who has a clear way of playing and is proving or has proven themselves with far inferior squads and players.

Southampton squad is awful, what could Hassenhutl do with Bissaka, Telles, VdB, Fred, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani etc...?

I want to find out, and I don’t want to waste anymore time on someone who is not the required standard.

Lets, for once, be progressive, ambitious and really see things as they are. This is a good group, and we are wasting it.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

For me, he has done a very good 'firefighting' job. He addressed a-lot of the issues at the club and has build up a nice squad.

He's exceeded my expectations in what I thought he could achieve results wise, though my bar for him was very low. I think it's time to now hand the throne over to someone who will progress us tactically, instill a settled system and get us challenging.

A very accurate description of his time with us. He must of been a breath of fresh air coming in after all the toxcidity that Mou left behind and it really did show with his first 3 months in charge with the players playing with a lot more freedom and looking like they were actually enjoying playing football again but and there's always been a but about Ole once we had something to play for (top 4) the brakes went back on again and it raised a question if Ole could handle the pressure of being United manager and basically (for me anyway) that question hasn't gone away.

Being the underdog seems to suit Ole down to the ground as results against the big teams proved but even that legacy seems to be dissappearing at least in the PL with having played 3 of the supposed other top 5 and coming out of it with 1 point. The PL seem to have Oles number and he doesn't seem astute enough tactically to freshen things up even though he does have a lot more depth in his squad compared to last season.

Oles legacy will be he left a decent squad for the next manager but I think that's as far as it goes with him. Even a lot of the supporters of Ole don't think he's the man that's going to win us the league so when his time is up I'll give him my thanks and hope the board have finally realised their mistakes and get us in a manager who will. People who think that no manager will win us the league with Ed/Glazers in charge really do need their heads examined.

 

[bsCallout]

Don't expect Everton to open up and give us the space we got afforded by Newcastle & Leipzig

Still has no answer to teams who press us high and that I am afraid is why he isn't the right man for this club

Leipzig pressed high and we demonstrated some of our best play out from the back. The bizarre thing is we then can't do it three days later. Rinse and repeat.

He seems stuck between using the 'big' players and using the players that can play the way he wants. Which in my opinion includes at the very least Telles, Tuanzabe & VdB.

My reason he isn't the man for the job is because we haven't been able to demonstrate consistency since the moment he arrived. And it isn't consistency of results either, it's consistency in energy, pressure, patterns of play etc. It might actually be more infuriating than LVG now, atleast with LVG those things were consistent even if the results weren't, we knew what the game was going to play out like, 60% + possession.

It's not worse than Mourinho though, because everyone knew what was going to happen, even if we won, it was so boring.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Even though I'm convinced Ole needs to move on for us to progress, I do agree he's laid some good foundations by way of correcting the club ethos and getting better characters into the squad.

In what way? I never understand this 'character and ethos' thing. Even just looking at his own signings and ignoring the various Greenwood/Pogba/Other issues.

On the pitch? Maguire is an almost consensus poor choice for captain: an average player, who doesn't inspire confidence, who has massive limitations in terms of recovery and turning speed that will only get worse with age. Wan-Bissaka has big issues with lack of effort and lethargy in his recovery runs.

Off the pitch? Maguire literally starred in his own version of Banged Up Abroad. Wan-Bissaka has had near constant off-field drama over the summer. We signed a broken Cavani who's brother and agent said months previous that the only reason he would come here was for money. We also had the VDB's 'agent/not his agent his advisor' slating the club just a few games into the season.

 

[VP89]

In what way? I never understand this 'character and ethos' thing. Even just looking at his own signings and ignoring the various Greenwood/Pogba/Other issues.

On the pitch? Maguire is an almost consensus poor choice for captain: an average player, who doesn't inspire confidence, who has massive limitations in terms of recovery and turning speed that will only get worse with age. Wan-Bissaka has big issues with lack of intensity and lethargy in his recovery runs.

Off the pitch? Maguire literally starred in his own version of Banged Up Abroad. Wan-Bissaka has had near constant off-field drama over the summer. We signed a broken Cavani who's brother and agent said months previous that the only reason he would come here was for money. We also had the VDB 'agent/not his agent his advisor' slating the club just a few games into the season.

His man management sucks and his personnel choices are now constantly problematic, I'm not really disputing that.

But whether you think Maguire is captain material or not, he is actually known to be a humble guy who keeps focused and will always take criticism face on. He's not a prima-donna or a mercenary. All of Ole's transfers look to be of players with the correct mentality, even with the big name such as Cavani.

He's tried to bring back an attacking philosophy (yeah he failed with this I'd say) but you can see that he's trying to instill foundations to build on. He's not the right guy to build on this, he's taken us as far as he's capable in my opinion. But whoever steps in will inherit a better set-up from him than they did if they replaced Jose.

 

[keithsingleton]

Look at the upcoming league fixtures.
Unless there's a massive turn around, starting immediately with the next league game, that statistic is going to look much, much worst by Christmas.

November....
Everton - Away
WBA - Home
Southampton - Away

December (not inc. 2 CL & 1 EFL quarter final).....
West Ham - Away
City - Home
Sheffield Utd - Away
Leeds - Home
Leicester - Away
Wolves - Home
.

I'm frighten at looking one game ahead let alone 8 or 9.. We as a team are just delaying the inevitable as even if Ole does well he simply can't take us to the next level. I can't work out how the Ole fans think he can.

How much more time do some fans think he needs? He's already had two seasons based on matches played. He doesn't even know what the best formation is yet as swapping and changing doesn't give the side any continuity.

 

[Judas]

Say Ole gets given time, is there people on here who realistically think he'd win us the title? I'd love to believe it and see it happen, but league form wise from the start, we've never shown the consistency needed, not even close.

 

[tomaldinho1]

This doesn’t need to be rocket science. Every club has issues at board level and organizational problems. The most important position at any club, and crucially, the one that is easiest to improve, is the head coach and his staff.

It’s absolute rubbish to suggest that this squad of players shouldn’t be doing better. An Arsenal fan is in here feeling confident about his team based on yesterday’s result, but we have a far better squad than arsenal. The problem yesterday, as it is so many times, is that the team was set up wrong and players didn’t seem to know what they were doing.

It’s time to stop messing around with managers who had their best teams 10-20 years ago (van Gaal and Mourinho) or coaches who are not the required standard (Moyes and Ole)

Let’s get a progressive, modern coach who has a clear way of playing and is proving or has proven themselves with far inferior squads and players.

Southampton squad is awful, what could Hassenhutl do with Bissaka, Telles, VdB, Fred, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani etc...?

I want to find out, and I don’t want to waste anymore time on someone who is not the required standard.

Lets, for once, be progressive, ambitious and really see things as they are. This is a good group, and we are wasting it.

What is more frustrating about Hasenhuttl's example is he has coached the style Ole's been chatting about but not achieving from day 1. I'm sure what Ole wants to do is great, the question is can he coach that style? Hasenhuttl & Bielsa literally have squads that on paper are a shadow of ours (Hasenhuttl lost his best all round CM in to Spurs and signs players who are PL rejects or in the Championship) but yet their teams are machines - they are fitter than us, better than us off the ball, far more aggressive and organised. Hasenhuttl's a really good coach but he's not some kind of messiah, he just knows what he wants to do and how to coach it- why can't we just hire someone competent with the style of play we all want?

 

[el3mel]

Look at the upcoming league fixtures.
Unless there's a massive turn around, starting immediately with the next league game, that statistic is going to look much, much worst by Christmas.

November....
Everton - Away
WBA - Home
Southampton - Away

December (not inc. 2 CL & 1 EFL quarter final).....
West Ham - Away
City - Home
Sheffield Utd - Away
Leeds - Home
Leicester - Away
Wolves - Home
.

Lots of banana skins in this run unfortunately. Hopefully we'll hit a period of form around this time soon.

 

[Sir Alex Ferguson]

Ole is not good enough. Tactically naive, slow on any changes. The only style we know is to be compact and hit teams on the counter and as such, we struggle against any team that let's us have the ball and puts the onus us to make the play.

What irks me even more is Ole laid back just sitting on his IPAD 75+ minutes into the game and not showing any intention when it is clear that we need more. This is the wrong signal to send to the players. I just don't get it. The most successful managers SAF, Jose, Klopp are for the most part on the touchline when things are not going well. Sitting up there on the IPAD just sends the wrong signal to the players.

 

[Judas]

The wild thing about those fixtures you could argue we won't win any of them except WBA and Sheffield Utd? Probably beat City, and Leeds give you a chance I suppose.

 

[Maluco]

What is more frustrating about Hasenhuttl's example is he has coached the style Ole's been chatting about but not achieving from day 1. I'm sure what Ole wants to do is great, the question is can he coach that style? Hasenhuttl & Bielsa literally have squads that on paper are a shadow of ours (Hasenhuttl lost his best all round CM in to Spurs and signs players who are PL rejects or in the Championship) but yet their teams are machines - they are fitter than us, better than us off the ball, far more aggressive and organised. Hasenhuttl's a really good coach but he's not some kind of messiah, he just knows what he wants to do and how to coach it- why can't we just hire someone competent with the style of play we all want?

That’s literally all I want. Someone who has a style, and knows how to implement it. A coach that can keep players fit and knows how to implement a specific style.

There are far, far too many games where we look absolute clueless. Not just disorganized, but absolutely lost. Basically every PL game this season bar 30 minutes against Newcastle.

It’s not good enough and there are no excuses, especially, as you have stated, there are managers doing it with vastly inferior squads in the same division.

 

[bosnian_red]

I think Poch is on a year contract with Spurs that ends on 19th of November

I think Man Utd have had a retainer on him

So around International break if we want Poch he'll be free to get

One thing I worry about is does Poch want to manage a club that is in such a mess
as Man Utd

We're not in that much of a mess. We have a quality squad, a young squad, and do spend in the end every summer, with one of the highest wage bills, and one of the most productive youth academies. And in the CL right now after finishing 3rd and in a great position to qualify in first. We look a mess because we aren't coached to create anything. A coach who is proven to build the right style of play solves that. Moyes never proved any style of play. Van Gaal built his style, but the squad was mediocre at the time and his style was overly safe possession. Mourinho not much style of play and more individual reliant, and now Ole has no style of play apart from counters and entirely reliant on individuals (which can always be bettered by better tactics if they shut the counter down).

 

[bond19821982]

Look at the upcoming league fixtures.
Unless there's a massive turn around, starting immediately with the next league game, that statistic is going to look much, much worst by Christmas.

November....
Everton - Away
WBA - Home
Southampton - Away

December (not inc. 2 CL & 1 EFL quarter final).....
West Ham - Away
City - Home
Sheffield Utd - Away
Leeds - Home
Leicester - Away
Wolves - Home
.

I seriously worry about Westbrom,Southampton, Leeds. They will press like animals.

Before anyone laughing to see Westbrom in the list- they were one of the high pressing teams in Championship and showed glimpses in the first few matches. Hopefully our quality get us through.

 

[1974_Fergie_Time]

Where'd you read that? They released him didn't they?

Pochettino was sacked by Spurs last year and replaced by Jose Mourinho, but is still being paid by the club as part of his severance package of £17m - In the Daily Mirror on 17 April when they asked him to take a 50% cut because of COVID to help Spurs out

 

[peridigm]

I think Poch is on a year contract with Spurs that ends on 19th of November

I think Man Utd have had a retainer on him

So around International break if we want Poch he'll be free to get

One thing I worry about is does Poch want to manage a club that is in such a mess
as Man Utd

When Manchester United calls, you answer.

Not saying I think we should sack Ole but at some point, you need to engage in damage control. We're not there yet. Early days of the season. We're flying in the CL. Something is fundamentally wrong with the lack of consistency

 

[AneRu]

His man management sucks and his personnel choices are now constantly problematic, I'm not really disputing that.

But whether you think Maguire is captain material or not, he is actually known to be a humble guy who keeps focused and will always take criticism face on. He's not a prima-donna or a mercenary. All of Ole's transfers look to be of players with the correct mentality, even with the big name such as Cavani.

He's tried to bring back an attacking philosophy (yeah he failed with this I'd say) but you can see that he's trying to instill foundations to build on. He's not the right guy to build on this, he's taken us as far as he's capable in my opinion. But whoever steps in will inherit a better set-up from him than they did if they replaced Jose.

One problem, unless the new guy is a dinosaur like Moyes I don't see him liking Maguire, AWB and McTominay as key members of his team. Two of them cost us £130m just 15 months ago. This is the problem with laying foundations for someone else, managers are unique and their requirements are different.

Klopp and Pep have shipped out lots of players and it will likely happen here too if we bring a new guy in. The mistake was made after that miracle in Paris and we will pay for that poor decision for a long time because not only will we have to replace Ole but some of his cornerstone signings too.

 

[Adnan]

Let's be honest. Whether mckenna is actually any good is just fan fiction and hypothesis. The most talented? By which actual standard? What remarkable thing he done?

He never won anything. He never even showed anything remarkable. He could be the next johann crufyt mind we'll never now but it's baffling how we seems to have the best and brightest of them all yet have nothing to show for.

If we have a young pep or even a young mourinho worthy of the tag "the most talented coach of his generation" then why are our team so devoid of ideas? You dont need to be a full fledged manager to get your idea across.

McKenna showed he could make the collective press from back to front in synergy at u18 level. He showed he could coach transitions from back to front at a good level and at devastating speed. He without doubt is a very talented coach.

But having said that, that doesn't mean he was ready to be thrust into role/responsibility at first team level that's been bestowed upon him IMO.

 

[Tony247]

If not getting sacked then Ole should at least add someone in the coaching staff to bring that intensity and discipline.

 

[Giggsyking]

So people saying we can not judge him because he did not get what he wanted (Sancho, Haaland, Upemecano, etc ) in the transfer market.

 

[Water Melon]

Our form in the league is horrific and if we are still in the botton half of the table come January, sack him. If we are not in the CL next season, sack him come summer. If we make it into top 4 by the end of the season, he will have to put in a proper title challenge next season.

 

[bsCallout]

Does Ole's own passivity(personality) explain the teams passivity in half our games?