Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Raees]

Said it on the pod but Ole has no football philosophy outside of being able to counter attack effectively in big games or where the opponent plays with a high line. Relies heavily on individual brilliance on counter from likes of Rashford and the set pieces of Fernandes.

In Europe he has done exceptional because it suits his form of tactics, he can absorb pressure and spring counters regularly and the tempo is slightly slower than in the league and most importantly - less pressure as we were seen as underdogs... whenever we are written off, he performs miracles.

The moment we are favourites or expecting to take the game to someone and break down a low block - we turn into a zombie football side, we had double the amount of sideways passes than Arsenal who were incredibly negative yesterday and the amount of touches players take before hitting a pass is shocking - sort of thing Klopp and Pep would tear their hair out about if they had any - the more touches each player takes - tempo drops, easier for opponent to settle into battle lines and more chance of being dispossessed. This is a coaching issue.

Not at the point where I am Ole out but did I ever think Ole was going to win a title? Not really but he might win a UCL the way his team sets up in Europe so perhaps for that reason I will still back him - but domestically he has been shocking so far. Also use VDB for gods sake.

 

[Water Melon]

Said it on the pod but Ole has no football philosophy outside of being able to counter attack effectively in big games or where the opponent plays with a high line. Relies heavily on individual brilliance on counter from likes of Rashford and the set pieces of Fernandes.

In Europe he has done exceptional because it suits his form of tactics, he can absorb pressure and spring counters regularly and the tempo is slightly slower than in the league and most importantly - less pressure as we were seen as underdogs... whenever we are written off, he performs miracles.

The moment we are favourites or expecting to take the game to someone and break down a low block - we turn into a zombie football side, we had double the amount of sideways passes than Arsenal who were incredibly negative yesterday and the amount of touches players take before hitting a pass is shocking - sort of thing Klopp and Pep would tear their hair out about if they had any - the more touches each player takes - tempo drops, easier for opponent to settle into battle lines and more chance of being dispossessed. This is a coaching issue.

Not at the point where I am Ole out but did I ever think Ole was going to win a title? Not really but he might win a UCL the way his team sets up in Europe so perhaps for that reason I will still back him - but domestically he has been shocking so far. Also use VDB for gods sake.

I do not think Ole will be able to win CL. European managers will have a proper analysis of our team and we will struggle badly in latter stages of the competition. We are doing sweet fook all domestically already and we may reach QF in Europe if the draw is kind. Expect us to be to be knocked out in the last 16 round.

 

[croadyman]

I do not think Ole will be able to win CL. European managers will have a proper analysis of our team and we will struggle badly in latter stages of the competition. We are doing sweet fook all domestically already and we may reach QF in Europe if the draw is kind. Expect us to be to be knocked out in the last 16 round.

Yeah some of our fanbase need to wake up to the fact that other european managers will get wise to our big weakness later in the competition

 

[Adisa]

Made up my mind I will stop getting into silly arguments.
As I said few pages ago. We are trusting about hearing nowhere.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is not good enough to be Manchester United's manager. There is no shame in that.

 

[shahzy]

Beat Nagelsmann 5 nil. A manager you'd probably want. Beat Tuchel twice. Another one you'd want no doubt. Beat Pep 3 times in a season. Beat Lampard 3 times. Beat Jose. First team to take any pts off Liverpool last year.

How that all happen then?

There's a cancer at this club. Poch or whoever takes over next will go the exact same way.

I've written a post on here basically elluding to the fact Ole has only 1 style. Counter attack. Teams that leave space in behind are due to 1 of two things. 1) they are actually a good team and want to press forward and score ie: everyone you mentioned or 2) they are just stupid and try and play a high Line.

If neither of those occur then the alternate possibility occurs which is the opposition team sits back. Again this is due to 1 of 2 reasons. 1) they are just bad and can't get the ball or 2) they consciously decide to sit back even though they are a good team ala Tottenham this season.
When a team sits back, counter attacking stops being an option. The team doesn't perform. Most of the time it's a draw or as is the case it's losses. This is all due to Ole not knowing how to coach anything other than counter attack.

It's as simple as that. The team has been set up as a small time team just like Mourinho wanted. Sit back and be counter attackers. When that option is taken away, they have no idea what to do.

However I totally agree the cancer stems from the top. Glazers and Woodward are the root of it all. 1st option is for them to leave but we all know that's probably not going to happen. The 2nd option is for the manager to change and get in someone who is better. Even if that new manager will also have his hands tied by the glazers and Woodward.

 

[manunited1919]

We should keep Ole but get a mew assistant manager for him. Sort of Carlos Queiroz level of assistant manager.

 

[MancunianAngels]

The lack of a decent coach next to him is playing a big part in the lack of tactical changes during a match.

 

[Fredo]

I've been an Ole In supporter throughout his whole tenure so far, but yesterday was just painful to accept. The same team that dismantled Leipzig couldn't even get a decent spell against Arsenal.
The players take some blame of course because at the end they are the ones playing on the pitch.
But for Ole to stick to the same lineup till we conceded was just inexcusable, it's like he was betting on us scoring first so this team can do what it does best, suck up the pressure and counter-attack. When this doesn't happen, we look like yesterday, no penetration, no possession, no build-up. This is on Ole despite how many here are Ole in etc, but you just can't wait this much in a 0-0 game if you REALLY want to win it. I can't believe we have a world-class striker on the bench that would have been ideal against Arsenal's physicality in defense, only for Ole to start Mason. I love greenwood but against physical sides he's easily brushed-off the ball and I don't think he qualifies enough to lead the line at the moment (He's a brilliant finisher but has a lot before becoming an elite striker), at least play Cavani at 60'. Then comes VDB, a player who every time he plays he has a positive impact on the game. We sub him with 13-15 mins to play, this is shambolic management and we can't let Ole get away with it everytime, Arsenal won the midfield battle from early first half, I was expecting us to come second half with more intent/different tactics/players coming on... but again, nothing and Ole leaves it late to make his subs. Another bad day at the office, especially considering that Arsenal's squad is not really one full of world-class/elite players but actually players who know what they are doing on the pitch. Ole should really have a look at himself after these performances...

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

CV counts. LVG and Mourinho as bad as they were, were still the managers that achieved the most with us and won something. Ole's been a manager for 9 years and his last trophy was 7 years ago for a club in Norway. He was also the manager when Cardiff relegated. It's ironic because some don't want Poch for a similar reason.

 

[Fredo]

The lack of a decent coach next to him is playing a big part in the lack of tactical changes during a match.

He has Phelan, Carrick and McKenna, how many more does he need? Are you saying they are all bad? Phelan did a great job with SAF in his later years, if those aren't enough for Ole then we change Ole.

 

[Adnan]

I think our coaching is under taken by McKenna who is the most talent coach at first team level and he's jumped from u18 football straight to first team football.

The above might not be true but that's what I think is happening.

 

[MancunianAngels]

He has Phelan, Carrick and McKenna, how many more does he need? Are you saying they are all bad? Phelan did a great job with SAF in his later years, if those aren't enough for Ole then we change Ole.

What I'm saying is none of those are world class.

On Phelan, even then he was nowhere near the level of Quieroz. There was a definite drop off in our performances after 2008 when Phelan became assistant.

Ole needs to be bold and look for someone better. City had Arteta as their Assistant 12 months ago, that's the standard he/we needs

 

[Bojan11]

I think our coaching is under taken by McKenna who is the most talent coach at first team level and he's jumped from u18 football straight to first team football.

The above might not be true but that's what I think is happening.

Warren Joyce made our youth team look amazing and now look at him. I remember when Mourinho was here there were calls to replace him with McKenna.

 

[Fredo]

What I'm saying is none of those are world class.

On Phelan, even then he was nowhere near the level of Quieroz. There was a definite drop off in our performances after 2008 when Phelan became assistant.

Ole needs to be bold and look for someone better. City had Arteta as their Assistant 12 months ago, that's the standard he/we needs

Now I see what you mean, yep agree with you on that one, getting a world-class assistant though means we will have an assistant better than the manager himself, why not change both?

 

[devilish]

Why did Ole removed Bruno while keeping McCleverley on the pitch? We needed a goal

 

[Fredo]

Why did Ole removed Bruno while keeping McCleverley on the pitch? We needed a goal

Bruno looked jaded yesterday and totally tired at the end, if we kept him and took off the defense mids we have, I think Arsenal would have got 1 more even... but in any case, all the subs, tactics were shit yesterday...

 

[red4ever 79]

Why did Ole removed Bruno while keeping McCleverley on the pitch? We needed a goal

McTom runs around a lot

 

[devilish]

If only Liverpool had this type of thinking on their Board.

When you've got a shit owner then changing the manager would mean nothing. We should have stuck to Atkinson instead of going for that hipster manager who won against Real Madrid.

 

[devilish]

Bruno looked jaded yesterday and totally tired at the end, if we kept him and took off the defense mids we have, I think Arsenal would have got 1 more even... but in any case, all the subs, tactics were shit yesterday...

1-0, 2-0, 3-0 its still 3 points lost. We might as well taken a risk. The game would have ended in 15 minutes. Surely Bruno could brave those few minutes left. Sure he might have been tired but he's still a better option to a headless chicken with zero creativity whatsoever.

 

[Adnan]

Warren Joyce made our youth team look amazing and now look at him. I remember when Mourinho was here there were calls to replace him with McKenna.

I agree it's worrying.

McKenna is a talented young coach but he seems to be thrust into a role that requires great experience IMO. Carrick is learning on the job and Phelan wasn't really someone who under took training sessions under Fergie, that was Mulensteen.

 

[My only Eric]

Why is it that whenever we win, Ole gets praised so much, but when we lose, it's Ed Woodward's and the board and the players faults?

 

[Adnan]

 

[devilish]

Why is it that whenever we win, Ole gets praised so much, but when we lose, it's Ed Woodward's and the board and the players faults?

The board should buy every player Ole asks for. He should have gotten him Sancho, Grealish and Upamecano this year. Failure in spending 200m+ then its evident that they had set Ole to fail.

 

[kouroux]

Why is it that whenever we win, Ole gets praised so much, but when we lose, it's Ed Woodward's and the board and the players faults?

This logic is only applied by the Ole fanbois. In reality the blame and the successes are share with everyone

 

[Wilt]

Why is it that whenever we win, Ole gets praised so much, but when we lose, it's Ed Woodward's and the board and the players faults?

Yep, it’s never ending “Ole‘s at the wheel“ or “fecking glazers”

For gods sake, get us off this fecking hamster wheel...

 

[Inigo Montoya]

What I'm saying is none of those are world class.

On Phelan, even then he was nowhere near the level of Quieroz. There was a definite drop off in our performances after 2008 when Phelan became assistant.

Ole needs to be bold and look for someone better. City had Arteta as their Assistant 12 months ago, that's the standard he/we needs

You don't need world class coaches to do the technical stuff. A week ago Arteta had lost 2 matches in a row and was the most boring coach and not fir for a big job. Now he's a genius?

You just need players to follow instructions and not make stupid mistakes or play for themselves.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[fergosaurus]

Came 3rd like 3 months ago pal or did I dream it?

Then went into a window wanting Grealish n Sancho and was given DVB who let's be honest he clearly didn't ask for or he'd be playing him every game. And got a has been striker on deadline day as a panic buy.

Did you have as many excuses for Mourinho when he wasn't backed in the transfer window in 2018 after finishing 2nd?

We're 7th in the league and already out of the cup. His handling of a situation he created interests me not.

He needs to go. And so does Pogba. Get rid of them both and move on.

No you didn't, did you? We were 7th in September when you made this post. It's now November and Solskjaer's United are 15th and you're twisting yourself in knots trying to defend him. I imagine your next excuse will be about Ole having less time, cultural reset, restoring our indentity, yada yada.

 

[BigBebe]

Bit disappointed not to see a grumpy-Ole instagram post last night saying that the players are coming into training today at ELEVEN o'CLOCK

 

[anant]

Did you have as many excuses for Mourinho when he wasn't backed in the transfer window in 2018 after finishing 2nd?

A manager's job is to get performances. Results are supposed to come out of those performances. And by performances, I mean - getting the team to have more shots and from good positions, concede lesser shots, etc.

People turned on Mou because our performances were that of a team that was around the 6th best, and one can say that there was no real improvement between his 1st and 2nd season (I personally believe Mou's 1st season was better than his 2nd), and that was the peak of where he would take us - the team had hit their peak, and the players were on a downward trend.

Ole, while yesterday's defeat is on him and Pog, has improved the team over the last season. And if you really think about it, this team is still to peak - and hence the trust in Ole

 

[Judas]

Imagine wasting the peak of this team on Ole, it would be a fundamental error. Ole has done well, but he's just not good enough to take us to the next step. He's done great to sort out the squad a bit, but it should now be for a more attacking manager to take this team to where it could potentially be.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[Cloud7]

Imagine wasting the peak of this team on Ole, it would be a fundamental error. Ole has done well, but he's just not good enough to take us to the next step. He's done great to sort out the squad a bit, but it should now be for a more attacking manager to take this team to where it could potentially be.

This is what I’m worried about. On paper our team is close to being a title challenging team. It would be a crying shame if it’s wasted because sentimentality keeps us tied down with a manager that can’t add the extra 20% that a quality manager would bring and get us to that title winning strength.

 

[fergosaurus]

A manager's job is to get performances. Results are supposed to come out of those performances. And by performances, I mean - getting the team to have more shots and from good positions, concede lesser shots, etc.

People turned on Mou because our performances were that of a team that was around the 6th best, and one can say that there was no real improvement between his 1st and 2nd season (I personally believe Mou's 1st season was better than his 2nd), and that was the peak of where he would take us - the team had hit their peak, and the players were on a downward trend.

Ole, while yesterday's defeat is on him and Pog, has improved the team over the last season. And if you really think about it, this team is still to peak - and hence the trust in Ole

Again, mental gymnastics to absolve Solskjaer of the job he's doing. You have it the wrong way around - it's a results game first and foremost, the performances are secondary. In the league we've been getting neither and as a consequence are 15th with our worst start in God knows how long. These improved performances you speak of have gained us 7 points in 6 games with 13 goals conceded.

I can see he has some positive improvements but we're two years down the line and we still don't look like a properly coached team so when is enough enough?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Don't really rate his opinions. I'd say Ole has improved Martial and Rashford but that's about it

 

[Siorac]

Again, mental gymnastics to absolve Solskjaer of the job he's doing. You have it the wrong way around - it's a results game first and foremost, the performances are secondary. In the league we've been getting neither and as a consequence are 15th with our worst start in God knows how long. These improved performances you speak of have gained us 7 points in 6 games with 13 goals conceded.

I can see he has some positive improvements but we're two years down the line and we still don't look like a properly coached team so when is enough enough?

No, I think he's right that performances are more important. Consistent good performances are a reasonably accurate predictor of good results.

The problem is that all too often, the performances under Ole are absolutely atrocious. When we lose, we lose HARD. Like yesterday, when a side with Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Pogba, Van de Beek, and Cavani could not create a single chance against Arsenal. Look at the run after the Paris miracle in 2019. Even our wins were awful displays and when we dropped points, the level was pretty much Sunday League. Our bottom level under Solskjaer is near the fecking Mariana Trench.

 

[fergosaurus]

No, I think he's right that performances are more important. Consistent good performances are a reasonably accurate predictor of good results.

What I meant was results are obviously most important. I agree that usually good performances will get good results. I wanted Mourinho sacked but it's not a good argument to say he had poor performances over an entire season in which we finished 2nd.

The problem is that all too often, the performances under Ole are absolutely atrocious. When we lose, we lose HARD. Like yesterday, when a side with Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Pogba, Van de Beek, and Cavani could not create a single chance against Arsenal. Look at the run after the Paris miracle in 2019. Even our wins were awful displays and when we dropped points, the level was pretty much Sunday League. Our bottom level under Solskjaer is near the fecking Mariana Trench.

Agreed, it was terrible and in the first half we only managed one shot at home against a poor Arsenal side who have already lost 3 games this season. Other than the last 10 minutes when Arsenal sat back and protected their lead we were hopelessly bad.

 

[VP89]

Don't really rate his opinions. I'd say Ole has improved Martial and Rashford but that's about it

His overarching opinion was that Ole hasn't done enough with these players which to be fair, which is hard to argue against in I reckon.

 

[VP89]

When ManUtd lose, fans discuss how poor we are and where things went wrong or how we are not going anywhere under Ole. Then you have Jose fans who posts Jose worshipping posts whenever we lose, weird. Same people who said we have midtable team and should expect midtable finish btw. One of the reason it's hard to take them seriously.

Well no, that's not what is happening. There are claims that Ole should be trusted because he got 3rd, and some posters are just pointing out the hypocrisy given the mood toward our last manager.

Its not all a big conspiracy, as much as I'm sure you'd love it to be.

 

[Sky1981]

I think our coaching is under taken by McKenna who is the most talent coach at first team level and he's jumped from u18 football straight to first team football.

The above might not be true but that's what I think is happening.

Let's be honest. Whether mckenna is actually any good is just fan fiction and hypothesis. The most talented? By which actual standard? What remarkable thing he done?

He never won anything. He never even showed anything remarkable. He could be the next johann crufyt mind we'll never now but it's baffling how we seems to have the best and brightest of them all yet have nothing to show for.

If we have a young pep or even a young mourinho worthy of the tag "the most talented coach of his generation" then why are our team so devoid of ideas? You dont need to be a full fledged manager to get your idea across.