Well he was one game away from completely flunking and getting sacked, so the concern with him being the right man for the job pre-dates the first 3 league games of this season.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Ole has, for intents and purposes, effectively begun the process of phasing DDG out by handing out Henderson such a big contract its just that a new manager would be more assertive in handling the situation. I think any manager who comes in demanding 200m pound windows should be a red flag for the board, as bad as things are right now we do have a competitive squad which shouldn't need a quarter of a billion to fight for the title.
Stick to making shitty threads like Ole being 8 games from disaster... Reasoned debate doesn't seem to be your strong point.
Every new manager was backed with decent warchest every window. And the managements have low expectation, which is maintaining Top 4. What's not to like?
Unless if the new manager is expecting Ed to get him Sancho, Upamecano, and Grealish in this COVID season. So yeh, he'd be disappointed.
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I won't go in detail about whether should be sacked or not. Irrespective of that I hope that we go for a radical change from top to bottom. That means a football CEO, a DOF, a head of recruitment and coaching staff that can be trusted. I'd say sack Dempsey, Clegg, Mckenna and Carrick then get the likes of Faria, Rene, Phelan, Trombetta and Landucci
The irony is lost.
This would be such an interesting post if it had some meat on it. Like why are those coaches better, what’s their philosophy against the other’s Who did they study under etc. Pure football argument, without blind guessing. I’m not being sarcastic here. I would love to read it!
Is there anyone here who believe we could mount a title challenge with Ole ? Seriously mate, guy has a charism of potatoes and doesn't look like he understand much about footballing tactic, you can give him 1 billion worth of squad and i would still bet against him winning the league. He was hired to purify the toxic dressing room left by Mourinho , has done his purpose here and there is nothing left for him to do , let's replace him with an actual manager.
Maybe he already sees what people didn't see back in the day and decide "that's it i am out , staying here any further will only end up tarnishing my image". I mean is there anything Mourinho got it wrong about United ? None, he was right about everything here including our favorite players.
I personally think woodward has given the Solskjaer business a lot of thought. I think solskjaer hads succeeded in doing what he wanted as in getting the spirits back up after the shambles that ended up happening under Mourinho.
But with his business background where he has proven himself to be a shark, he really thinks there is one of 2 ways to proceed.
1- fire Solskjaer and hire a proven manager that is good with player development and getting a team to play a specific way a la Pochetinho, Tuchel and co.
2- fire Solskjaer and hire someone capable of dealing with the coaching and analytical side of things as in dealing with the analytics department and managing the transition of that into coaching drills.
I think, with Woodward's proven track record so far, he will do the ultimate power move and prove beyond doubt he is the alpha man of British football : fire Solskjaer and appoint himself as the manager of Manchester United. Fock it, what's the worse that can happen.
But with his business background where he has proven himself to be a shark, he really thinks there is one of 2 ways to proceed.
1- fire Solskjaer and hire a proven manager that is good with player development and getting a team to play a specific way a la Pochetinho, Tuchel and co.
2- fire Solskjaer and hire someone capable of dealing with the coaching and analytical side of things as in dealing with the analytics department and managing the transition of that into coaching drills.
I think, with Woodward's proven track record so far, he will do the ultimate power move and prove beyond doubt he is the alpha man of British football : fire Solskjaer and appoint himself as the manager of Manchester United. Fock it, what's the worse that can happen.
Ok I bite.
Rene and Phelan - Ole is SAF's disciple. Unfortunately he's also inexperienced. The two know United inside out. They were key in Sir Alex's later years. In fact Sir Alex didn't hid his disappointment at Moyes sacking the pair. Rene is a pompous ahole which might be the reason why he's unsuitable as a manager. However he's tactically very sound having been a trusted no 2 under the likes of Sir Alex and Hiddink. His daughter works with MUTV which suggest that there's no burning of bridges between the club and himself. Phelan is described by Sir Alex as a great talent spotter. He have been working with us for quite some time now and he would know what's wrong with United.
Faria - Faria's background is that of a fitness coach. Mou signed him on that regard and kept him within his coaching team even after signing for us. Now United had always had an issue with fitness levels. Players tend to vanish in the treatment room, they take too much time to get back into fitness etc. The only time we did well on that regard was when Rui Faria was here. Things went back to the shitters once he left.
Trombetta and Dolcetti. These two are two of Allegri's most trusted men. Allegri has his own flaws but there are two things he excels greatly. He is a great man manager and he knows his way around defences. God knows how much we need people who can make our defence look less silly.
Most of these people have bags of experience and are certainly no yes men. They also understand the difficulty of being managers having tried and failed on that regard. Which is exactly what an inexperienced manager like Ole needs at the moment. Ironically its what Sir Alex did through the years. You'll expect someone with that experience to hire former players as no 2s. Instead he got people from the outside. Sometimes they were already at the cusp of being too good to be no 2 (Carlos Queroz, Mclaren, Walter Smith, Rene M). Phelan was a former player of his but he got promoted after years working in the academy. He was certainly no Carrick or Clegg.
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Yeah but Henderson isn't much better at coming off his line than de Gea, so neither would suite Poch pressing
The guy is absolutely right about Ole. I'm sick of hearing dipper fans at work laughing at me about Ole at the wheel. They all see how badly run we are.
Where's the 3rd option to put Ole in a sack and keep him?
Thank you for the input! Love reading more in-depth opinions, than just saying something without substance.
Have you read Oles uefa pro exams? When he used Rene as guidance? It’s pretty good regarding the things he is criticised on here often. Especially the part on transitions in the game going forward. I don’t know if it was before or after, but he also spent time with Klopp learning this in a more theoretical way.
Regarding fitness the are a couple of fellas who are leading in that regard. They are professors at NTNU in Trondheim. I can find the article another day if you are interested. It is the basis of all football fitness now days, but first opted by Real Madrid and barcelona, and then all teams in germany. Ole has also studied with them, and held several courses with on the subject. It is a really good read!
I’ve read a few good articles from mulensteen, but I thought Phelan mostly moved the cones and made jokes. But Rene would be great to have back to the club. Also Frank Hoek would be great, but I remember Ddg didn’t like to work with him.
100% agree about a defensive addition to the coaching staff!
Unfortunately there's a huge gap between theory and practice.
I was initially pro Ole because I believed that the club would understand how difficult it would be for them to sack a legend. Therefore they would make sure that the manager and themselves won't mess that up. Which means that they would surround him with top people both above him and below him, people who would guide him and help him on everything whether its talent spotting, fitness, tactics etc. As per usual I overrated the people who own and/or manage this club.
I also understand the manager's urge to surround oneself with people he knows, he trusts and who share his vision. That's a strategy that is implemented not only by Ole but by many managers as well including top top managers. Which is understandable really. Being a manager is often a highly stressful and lonely job and there are times the manager need people who share his vision. Unfortunately the downside to that is that the manager might end up with no one able to think out of the box and challenge the manager to try something new. In my opinion, Sir Alex's brilliance and humility in bringing in new blood and in giving them top roles was key in him surviving for so long. People like Mclaren, Queroz, Smith and Rene brought new ideas and challenged what was then believed to be the de facto way of doing things. It also caused friction as well as change is rarely received well. For example Keane absolutely hated Queroz methods.
Irrespective whether you're Ole in or Ole out, this club need change. The time when a manager could walk in and be able to do everything on his own is over. No one, not even Pep, Allegri or Klopp have the experience to do that anymore. United need a CEO that understand football, it need a DOF, it need a head of recruitment and it also need experienced coaches. Of course the less experience the manager have the more help he need.
The overwhelming view among non-United fans is that Ole is in over his head. Even on here among Ole inners, the argument is expressed more in terms of mitigating factors (Glazers/Woodward) rather than a belief that Ole has the skill set and experience to make United genuinely competitive. In terms of pro-Ole posters (including one who is here for at least a 3rd time under almost the same name), it amounts to either insults (kneejerk, plastics etc) or the fact that he scraped top 4 with 66 points after an abysmal start (and another 50m signing). Definitely different standards for our ex-player with 10 years of managerial mediocrity behind hin as opposed to anyone else managing United past or present.
Spurs were 3 up at half time and Utd ended up winning 5-3. we were 3 up at Liverpool and they came back 3-3 theres 2 examples off the top of my head. Utd should never ever throw a game at half time.
It's due the management. They have no clue about game management and coaching. A UEFA pro license is a paperwork you do in a set syllabus and frame work.
The real top coaches in the world never had them. SAF, Cruijff, Michels etc.
It gives you nothing about what happens in real life match situation. Either you have the ability to see it unfolding or you don't.
Motivation is just one component of it.
When you are a man down and two goals down your change your style and players and play tight without giving the opposition any space. You only counter attack and try for set pieces.
Yes we were so open and Greenwood and Matic were so high up the pitch and Pogba couldn't be bothered. Rashford was way too out on the left wing and Greenwood on the right. He wouldn't even track back to help in either midfield or his defense.
It was a shambles.
If he bought in world class coaches, who could train the team the right way, get the tactics right and man manage the egos, this could work. You're definitely onto something here.
Thats where you need a manager on the pitch side screaming blue murder at them to play to his instructions. All Ole does is sit with his head in his hands, sometimes shaking it as if he cant make sense of where it all went wrong.
How about we just sack the the lot of them. This isn’t a trading places experiment bet for £2 on can we turn a below average manager into SAF.
The way I see it is that if Ole isn’t good enough he will get sacked anyways. He has what a year and a half left on his contract, he’s on the way out. The Ole out gang just need to be patient, your wish will happen, either this season or the next so chill out imo
I was screaming blue murder at the TV. Why the feck should Matic go so forward to press? We can't press when we have 11v 11. How the heck can we press with 10 v 11?
Once a man down, we should be compact and bring in Rashford and Greenwood a bit further inside and only counter attack. No pressing at all.
I noticed also that Jose wants Bailly to have possession. He didn't want Maguire to have possession. Does anyone remember our game against Ajax where he let Sanchez have possession but didn't let De Laet have possession? This is exactly what he did against us. This team has the ability to play a lot better than we are doing now. A good coach will do it.
I agree. Look how Pogba plays for France. A good coach can get a tune out of him.
Pogba and Bruno both have very good long passes in them. A coach would drill moves using that. Forwards should develop muscle memory when to make runs. But nothing of that sort we see in this team. We are not playing like a well oiled machine. Too much dependence on individual magic moments.
None of those teams were a man down when they made their come back though were they?
Are you all so traumatized from THAT City game that you’ve forgot we’ve been in the exact same situation under Sir Alex? We ’went for it’ then and got hammered aswell, in a performance the man himself chose to call ”suicidal” post match. He specifically criticized his players for keeping on attacking despite the circumstances.
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The problem is we got battered by someone who we believe were finished toxic dinosaur with outdated tactic , what does that says about ole then ? We don't sack the finished dinosaur just to get worse instead, all the fact point out that we aren't getting better after sacking Mourinho so what's the point of keeping ole ?
Off course you can press a man down! You have to press with a man down, Or else you get pinned in your own box. But you switch to zonal pressing. Come on mate..
We should start banning SAF examples when it comes to backing Ole. It’s a tragedy. I’m convinced people believe if we give Ole 20 plus years he’ll win us 13 premier league titles
We should start banning SAF examples when it comes to backing Ole. It’s a tragedy. I’m convinced people believe if we give Ole 20 plus years he’ll win us 13 premier league titles
Nevermind that, they compare him to Klopp, he'll have us winning the League and the CL in a season or 2
With the quality of players of players we have where do we rank in the league. I've seen some suggest we are not good enough for Top 4
I think we're in the 4-6 range.
Us, Spurs, and probably Arsenal have similar quality imo.
Leicester and Everton might even get mixed in there. Not because they have as good players as we do, but because they have more "right" players.
Our squad. Even with Lampard’s additions. 3rd and that’s only because Lampard is manager. But we have Ole so we are a top 8 side. Anything from 3rd to 8th.
Our squad isn't as good as Chelsea's. Starting XI - I'd agree, we're even or maybe slightly better
Yeah your right. I’d say they have a better squad. Only slightly though and by that I mean wing options.
Because the finished dinosaur had a side of equivalent strenght who were also much fitter and were handed a red card not even half an hour into the game as a bonus to make matters worse for us.
We should start banning SAF examples when it comes to backing Ole. It’s a tragedy. I’m convinced people believe if we give Ole 20 plus years he’ll win us 13 premier league titles
Is it not relevant point though?
People were arguing with me claiming that a ’United team never throw in the towel’ and that another manager like ”SAF, Cruiff...” etc would’ve given us a chance.
My point is that SAF actually found himself in the exact same situation in a game once and didn’t handle it much differently to how Ole did...
No you don't press when you are a man down. You keep in shape and let them have the ball and get back and defend and get the ball in your own half and try to counter attack. You don't go and press them outside their box. Which is what we did and got taken apart.
We finished 3rd last season? Remember?
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