Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Fletchageddon]

Its not bad luck injuries. Its no depth so we can't rotate when players aren't match fit enough, and then they get overplayed and injuries happen. We have a very normal amount of injuries, it just hits hard when you have no cover.

I meant with the likes of Martial, Bailly, Pogba, Rashford. All were missing for a good chunk of last season. Hopefully VdB negates any Pogba injuries and Bailly can keep his fitness. His isn't an issue of being overplayed nor were martial or Rashford, though he was played whilst injured, so I agree with your point. I just mean picking up silly injuries, hopefully we have less of that as this will be their second year under Ole's methods rather than the LVG/Jose stye.

 

[tombombadil]

He has a say what he says in the media. United don’t tell him what rhetoric to push. He’s his own man and it’s quite clear they’re fecking him. He could have easily said that I was led to believe one thing but certain things transpired and we just have to crack on the best we can. Or words to that effect. Saying everything is fine and dandy is just opening oneself up and by proxy shielding those who are actually at fault. That’s my view anyway.

I understand the frustration. But even something like that, could be blown out of proportion by the media. Today's press conference is a good example. You could see he was fumbling for words to try and avoid saying the wrong thing. And did you see how many of them were trying to bait Ole into a feud with Mourinho?

Ole is from the days of SAF, so definitely, the dirty laundry stays behind closed doors and windows.

 

[crossy1686]

The window is still open so I'll hold back on giving people shit for now but it would appear that Ole is being well and truly shafted this summer. The board must be praying that fans aren't allowed back in the stadiums any time soon.

 

[crossy1686]

But you don’t need to take the heat for Woodward’s transgressions. We’ve had a diabolical window whatever happens over next 72 hours. There is no way we should be in this position in the first place.

If he speaks out about Woodward or anyone on the board they'll hit eject the second we lose a couple of games. At the moment the less he says and the less they do, the worse it looks on them

 

[Paxi]

If he speaks out about Woodward or anyone on the board they'll hit eject the second we lose a couple of games. At the moment the less he says and the less they do, the worse it looks on them

I’m not saying speak out. Just avoid the question at all. He didn’t need to jump through hoops to tell us we’ve been lost in translation in regards being able to exploit the transfer market. It’s clear we thought, the clubs would bend over for us because of COVID but it hasn’t happened and we’ve been left with egg on our face. It’s admirable but ultimately pointless of him to do it. He’s going to get the chop and be left hung out to dry either way. Fans will forget him when we hire poch and the cycle will begin again.

 

[lilcurt]

When it comes to sacking Ole, you need to ask yourself who do we get that will do radically better with the same resources?

Sure there are better managers out there. But could anyone take this squad above 3rd at the minute? Could anybody get more out of the board?

The club is poison from the very core at the moment, the manager is just the face of the machine.

 

[Withnail]

He’s willing to shill for them though and I have no sympathy for that. He could easily just have said he was led to believe one thing but things changed and left it at that. He does that when asked about certain players. Instead he’s backpedaling like a little scrote.

For a start the windows not closed and secondly you want him to do a Mourinho on it do you?

He is never going to come out and say he wasn't backed while he is in the job. It's completely unprofessional and undermines the current squad.

Bizarre entitled behaviour here.

 

[Red Viking]

Ed Woodward and the board are setting ole up to fail in a big way here. He isn´t going to last long with the current squad at his disposal. He has two choices just carry on and walk into the trap setup and take the blame for failing or he can be smart and resign after the transfer window closes if it ends with only VDB being the only new player. The second one is the strongest choice as he gets to make the decision and come out of it stronger as someone who refuses to be set up to fail. He has to be smart here and look after him self and his own interests. He should really just say that the board failed utterly in their job and made the job impossible. He should go out on a high and save some face in what is becoming another fiasco of a transfer season. You only end up looking like a mug if you let your self being set up to fail willingly in front of the whole world.

 

[Paxi]

For a start the windows not closed and secondly you want him to do a Mourinho on it do you?

He is never going to come out and say he wasn't backed while he is in the job. It's completely unprofessional and undermines the current squad.

Bizarre entitled behaviour here.

What are you talking about? Read the thread will you then comment. I just said in my previous posts that you can be tactful and avoid the topic altogether and let the journalists and the wider football community make up their own minds.

You know what’s bizarre, that fans can’t see a pattern here. Just like Jose and Maguire, we’re not backing the manager after a (relatively) successful season.

 

[bosnian_red]

I meant with the likes of Martial, Bailly, Pogba, Rashford. All were missing for a good chunk of last season. Hopefully VdB negates any Pogba injuries and Bailly can keep his fitness. His isn't an issue of being overplayed nor were martial or Rashford, though he was played whilst injured, so I agree with your point. I just mean picking up silly injuries, hopefully we have less of that as this will be their second year under Ole's methods rather than the LVG/Jose stye.

Martial and rashford were 100% forcing them to start at times when they needed breaks. Rashfords was literally a stress fracture, which only comes about when it's overused. Martial was muscular at the start of last season, probably wasn't fit and ready to be playing every game but then got a muscle injury. But those injuries are normal anyway, you'd expect that to happen now and then.

Bailly is just injury prone, he rarely played and always got injured. Pogba the one that we were unlucky to do without all season, but there's a lot there that we don't know as it was a very strange situation until lockdown. Issue was no depth, which we now have in midfield at least.

I worry for our attack and fullbacks though. Last year we could rotate in the Europa League. Now we have 2 games a week every single week, with Champions League, meaning we will never have a chance to rotate all the mediocre players in. We can rotate our midfield effectively, but our attack and fullbacks past the starters are useless, so they will 100% pick up regular muscular injuries as they're overplayed. Hopefully it's just muscular, and nothing like Rashfords in January.

 

[mshnsh]

Give him till end of season; sack him if the team fails to improve or show any signs that good things will happen soon.

 

[R'hllor]

In this clownfiesta with Ed and others, Ole is not a victim, he still has choices, if its really situation like others are painting it to be.

 

[crossy1686]

Give him till end of season; sack him if the team fails to improve or show any signs that good things will happen soon.

Then what? Hire a new manager, semi back him in the summer and start this cycle again?

 

[Verminator]

In this clownfiesta with Ed and others, Ole is not a victim, he still has choices, if its really situation like others are painting it to be.

If he genuinely loves the club and wants to have us back at the top, and I'm sure he does, he has far fewer choices.
Sabotaging the match day squad, like Mourinho, is not something he will resort to.

 

[Foxbatt]

I couldn't agree more. The lack of rotation and substitutions at the end of last season made it clear as day that he didn't trust anyone outside the first 11 to improve the situation.

He was correct wasn't he in this? They do not improve the situation. What galls me is that United could have got any decent CBs and any decent right sided player and also full backs around the league and Europe and it would be better than what we have now.
At the same time Ole should get better coaches for sure better coaching is going to help the current lot.

 

[Withnail]

What are you talking about? Read the thread will you then comment. I just said in my previous posts that you can be tactful and avoid the topic altogether and let the journalists and the wider football community make up their own minds.

You know what’s bizarre, that fans can’t see a pattern here. Just like Jose and Maguire, we’re not backing the manager after a (relatively) successful season.

I read the thread. I read your post calling Ole a scrote. That's what I found bizarre.

 

[Paxi]

I read the thread. I read your post calling Ole a scrote. That's what I found bizarre.

I said he was like a scrote. Akin to thanking a hangman for tying a noose around the neck nice and comfortable.

 

[Paxi]

Look, Ole doesn’t need to try and be diplomatic in answering questions. Answer one question and then say that any follow up questions are not pertinent questions and that he already given them an answer. Move on. Instead he’s tongue tied himself into saying he has a strong squad after seeing us play for 4 games this season. This is what gets to me. When the axe falls, he will be shown no quarter because he stood by our incompetent board.

 

[VP89]

I like Ole as a person but that was a rubbish press conference from him

 

[Morpheus 7]

The attack of Ole is hilarious, some balloons in here. No manager could have got better than 3rd last year with this team, no manager! The board and Woodward have derailed United's progress. Call for Poch or Allegri if you want but they want be backed. Everyone knows the players Ole wants to get rid of and doesn't trust. Is it his fault we can sell them, are they good mistakes.

If Ole gets sacked and United don't achieve higher this year, the club are to be blamed. This needs to stop and the real problem addressed. Doesn't matter who's in charge. Fergie couldn't compete for league against Liverpool with this squad.

 

[Anustart89]

When it comes to sacking Ole, you need to ask yourself who do we get that will do radically better with the same resources?

Sure there are better managers out there. But could anyone take this squad above 3rd at the minute? Could anybody get more out of the board?

The club is poison from the very core at the moment, the manager is just the face of the machine.

I agree with the main point, ie that the club is rotten from the board level and down. But the problem is that we're never going to be able to attract high quality players (if our board were inclined to splurge on them) without CL football.

If we miss out on CL next season due to the current manager not being able to get top 4 (when Mr Hypothetical would), why would Sancho and the likes join us over the other suitors next season? We'd have to buy players then who would agree to join a non-top 4 club, which would make it even harder for Ole to get into the top 4, and thus starting the Liverpool spiral that kept them from winning a title in 30 years. Their name wasn't enough to attract the top players, so they had to luck out with a great manager who could improve what he had, buy cheap and kick on from there with big investment (after making a £9m player into a £150m player and making a huge profit on him).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What do you think about boycotting a club in protest? As well as boycotting it's social media?

I have no issue with that if you think there's something fundamentally wrong with the club worth protesting (or boycotting). But that isn't comparable to not enjoying wins and/or actively wanting the team to lose (which is what was being discussed here, specifically).

To state a rather extreme (but quite telling and relevant) example, I know several FC United supporters who still follow the progress (or lack thereof!) of Manchester United, the club they abandoned as actual, contributing supporters years ago. And they still want Manchester United to beat Liverpool.

I guess they still love the idea of Manchester United even if they detest the current, tangible incarnation of it. In fact, I would argue that this is what being a fan of a football club is all about: a perfectly irrational connection to an idea. Nobody passionately loves a company on the New York stock exchange. And on the same note, nobody (or at least very few, I'd imagine) actively celebrate Malcolm Glazer's kids or Ed Woodward when they're enjoying United winning a game of football.

 

[Shark]

The attack of Ole is hilarious, some balloons in here. No manager could have got better than 3rd last year with this team, no manager! The board and Woodward have derailed United's progress. Call for Poch or Allegri if you want but they want be backed. Everyone knows the players Ole wants to get rid of and doesn't trust. Is it his fault we can sell them, are they good mistakes.

If Ole gets sacked and United don't achieve higher this year, the club are to be blamed. This needs to stop and the real problem addressed. Doesn't matter who's in charge. Fergie couldn't compete for league against Liverpool with this squad.

Well they will be backed to an extent, all of our managers have been backed in that first window. Ole has brought in an £80m CB, £40m RB, along with two attacking midfielders and a winger in James that's been a total disaster. The problem is when we get that CL spot, as we did under Mourinho also, they aren't backed enough to take that next step. However you look at someone like Klopp at Liverpool and he got most of his signings spot on that first time around and is now building around that with the likes of Thiago to remain at the top. Not spending crazy money.

 

[Withnail]

I said he was like a scrote. Akin to thanking a hangman for tying a noose around the neck nice and comfortable.

This is just getting weirder.

He was backtracking because the journalist pointed out that he himself had said earlier on that they could exploit the market which they clearly haven't to date.

 

[Paxi]

This is just getting weirder.

He was backtracking because the journalist pointed out that he himself had said earlier on that they could exploit the market which they clearly haven't to date.

Right whatever mate.

 

[Amir]

The attack of Ole is hilarious, some balloons in here. No manager could have got better than 3rd last year with this team, no manager!

And Mourinho got Second, but many people realised he isn't the man to take us forward.

There's no reason to attack Solskjaer, but it's not over the top to believe this is as far as he goes.

Fergie couldn't compete for league against Liverpool with this squad.

I'd actually wager on Fergie to do so. But only him.

 

[Shark]

I'd actually wager on Fergie to do so. But only him.

Hang on, there's posters here seriously suggesting SAF wouldn't challenge Liverpool with our current squad? fecking hell.

 

[Amir]

Hang on, there's posters here seriously suggesting SAF wouldn't challenge Liverpool with our current squad? fecking hell.

And we used to laugh at David Moyes for saying stuff like that.

 

[Withnail]

Right whatever mate.

Come on man, this whole thing of over-analyzing what he says in press conferences and getting annoyed he doesn't air his dirty laundry in public is getting a bit ridiculous.

He's already said the board knows what he thinks and we know if they don't get anyone in that they've let him down.

You know as well as I do that we're not going to know his true feelings or what is being said behind closed doors until he writes his book in 10 years' time.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd actually wager on Fergie to do so. But only him.

Hang on, there's posters here seriously suggesting SAF wouldn't challenge Liverpool with our current squad? fecking hell.

The issue isn’t competing with Liverpool. Whether we like it or not, Klopp has developed them into one of the all time great teams. So they would quite probably leave our current (and obviously flawed) squad in the dust, even under Fergie.

The issue is why we made such unbelievably heavy weather of getting ahead of Leicester and Chelsea. That’s something Fergie could have done in his sleep.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Well they will be backed to an extent, all of our managers have been backed in that first window. Ole has brought in an £80m CB, £40m RB, along with two attacking midfielders and a winger in James that's been a total disaster. The problem is when we get that CL spot, as we did under Mourinho also, they aren't backed enough to take that next step. However you look at someone like Klopp at Liverpool and he got most of his signings spot on that first time around and is now building around that with the likes of Thiago to remain at the top. Not spending crazy money.

Klopp took years to build the finished article we see now. I'm sure last Summer when we were in for Sancho, Ole would have preferred him to Dan James. The recruitment is an issue with securing deals. We are a weekend away from the window being over and we can't sell Smalling to Roma. It's a disgrace, the right wing has been an issue for a long time. When Liverpool had an issue at the back, they signed Allison and Van Djik. United are we'll do it next year, fine with what we have. No excuses, the manager has been massively let down. It's on to criminal what's happening at Manchester United.

 

[Foxbatt]

The issue isn’t competing with Liverpool. Whether we like it or not, Klopp has developed them into one of the all time great teams. So they would quite probably leave our current (and obviously flawed) squad in the dust, even under Fergie.

The issue is why we made such unbelievably heavy weather of getting ahead of Leicester and Chelsea. That’s something Fergie could have done in his sleep.

No he won't simply because he is going to get the best coaches available to work under him. This is one of the reasons why he is great. He accepts his limitations.

 

[Shark]

The issue isn’t competing with Liverpool. Whether we like it or not, Klopp has developed them into one of the all time great teams. So they would quite probably leave our current (and obviously flawed) squad in the dust, even under Fergie.

The issue is why we made such unbelievably heavy weather of getting ahead of Leicester and Chelsea. That’s something Fergie could have done in his sleep.

I agree, Klopp has made Liverpool into a machine, but SAF always rose to the challenge and his presence alone would have taken our current squad to new heights. This is a man who fielded Tom Cleverly and Danny Welbeck against Mourinho's Real Madrid and dominated them until a red card. He would have pushed the likes of Rashford, Martial, Pogba and Greenwood to insane heights and I've no doubt would have challenged this Liverpool side who don't even look all that solid this season. Keane was definitely right about them looking more sloppy.

 

[b82REZ]

If he genuinely loves the club and wants to have us back at the top, and I'm sure he does, he has far fewer choices.
Sabotaging the match day squad, like Mourinho, is not something he will resort to.

But according to some that's exactly what he did in the Europa semi.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The issue is why we made such unbelievably heavy weather of getting ahead of Leicester and Chelsea. That’s something Fergie could have done in his sleep.

Yeah, basically this.

It's impossibly hypothetical, of course, but what we've seen from City and Liverpool in recent years isn't anything Fergie wouldn't have been able to deal with given time (and given the fact that United still have huge financial resources). He was overtaken by both Wenger and Mourinho at times - but then bounced back to reclaim the - ahem - perch. That was the essence of his managerial genius - the ability to reinvent himself (extremely rare in football). In a hypothetical scenario where he remains in charge (and stays somewhere close to his prime level), he'd do that again.

And, as you say, he wouldn't have fallen so far behind as what we've seen under his successors - obviously not. In a scenario where Fergie competes against Pep and Klopp, with the exact squad available to Ole last season, Fergie probably would've finished 2nd * - and much closer to Liverpool than what actually happened.

* Given that this was a season where City struggled considerably. Fergie would have capitalized on that.

ETA Of course, "impossibly hypothetical" and all that. Fergie wouldn't have allowed the squad/coaching staff to deteriorate to the extent that his successors did. And so wouldn't have found himself in a position where he would've had to compete against the odds to that extent. But - yes - in a purely hypothetical scenario where prime Fergie had to compete against Pep and Klopp 2016-2020 with the exact same playing and coaching staff Mourinho/Ole had at their disposal, he obviously would have done better. Kinda goes without saying, though - he simply was better in all sorts of ways.

 

[Verminator]

So now we are fantasising about Sir Alex being the arch-nemisis necessary to bring down Klopp, but people are willing to sack Ole, without Fergie regen being possible. Meaning what? We keep trying new managers until one pulls the Holy bottle of Burgundy from the stone, and claims his right to the throne?

We have a decent team. We need to strengthen in some places. We need strength in depth to compete.
Some of us prefer to improve the 1st eleven, so those replaced provide the depth. Some want to buy backup players.

Fergie would obviously do a better job than Ole, but he was the greatest ever.
If that is the standard we judge our manager by, we're in for a fecking long wait and hundreds of sacked managers.

 

[Judas]

No matter the manager, they're all set up to fail year after year. For us to be here again and people still not being awake to that fact is staggering.

Ole isn't the best manager in the world, we could do better, but in the long run whoever is in that seat is doomed because the club is set up to harm them.

 

[VP89]

The press conference today just brought back the whole "Ole is a yes man" vibe again.

 

[Judas]

I honestly don't get what people expect him to do in press conferences really? I think he's often been dreadful in them, but today eh it was sadly what I'd expect given the situation we look to be in.

 

[lilcurt]

I agree with the main point, ie that the club is rotten from the board level and down. But the problem is that we're never going to be able to attract high quality players (if our board were inclined to splurge on them) without CL football.

If we miss out on CL next season due to the current manager not being able to get top 4 (when Mr Hypothetical would), why would Sancho and the likes join us over the other suitors next season? We'd have to buy players then who would agree to join a non-top 4 club, which would make it even harder for Ole to get into the top 4, and thus starting the Liverpool spiral that kept them from winning a title in 30 years. Their name wasn't enough to attract the top players, so they had to luck out with a great manager who could improve what he had, buy cheap and kick on from there with big investment (after making a £9m player into a £150m player and making a huge profit on him).

This is a mute point on the basis we have made Champions League now and aren't signing world-beaters, that is nothing to do with the manager.

The board have proven that whoever the manager is, once we reach the CL they will hold on the investment as that is good enough. So bringing a new manager will at best mean he will get the same results with less resources.

It's absolutely pointless changing things if the attitude of the club doesn't change. I will even have to remind myself of this when we nodoubt have a terrible patch the season and the screams of Ole out sound out.

Looking at our rivals, they have all invested heavily this window so top 4 would be a fantastic season at this point.