It's hilarious seeing people moan about the poor performances totally pretending the fact that the team got screwed over by the FA match scheduling for playing in an European semi final. Other teams had up to 4 pre season games and 2 competitive matches before United played against them while United had only 1 pre season game. It's hilarious.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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It shows the level of football understanding for some. Or sport in general.
Yup. The mob just parrots whatever is fashionable. This brings me back to the good ol' days when Michael Carrick "can't pass".
Oh god! “Carrick cannot boss the game”Yup. The mob just parrots whatever is fashionable. This brings me back to the good ol' days when Michael Carrick "can't pass".
I know what you mean. The internet has just turned everyone into a mob that believes they know better than world class managers and can play better football than world class players. That's why they are entitled to sit there and moan and insult and degrade any man united players and coaches. The kind of vitriol I've seen on the internet. And they do this to loyal servants of the club who have done nothing wrong. And they have the gall to demand loyalty from players.
These are the kind of "supporters" we have today. Nobody is interested in supporting the club anymore. Everyone just wants to be "right" and demands the club do as they say. I wonder how many even paid a single dime to support the club? Sigh.
Jesus wept.
Sack Fergie! Sell Goggs!!!!!!
I think it is some popular fan channels, and particularly a few of the regulars on there, like Saeed on United standl who have a certain amount of following, that perpetrate the myths of “Ole the PE teacher”, “Ole the clueless coach“ and the latest reincarnation “Our team is not well coached“.
I mean, there are valid criticisms to be made on Ole, in that he clearly prefers long term more than what he perceives as short term gain.
He has his preferences which sometimes puzzle me.
He’s a fan who has gone in to somewhat go back to a past that may well be irrelevant now. Like, if I were to be in charge of Cartoon Network tomorrow, and bring back cartoons that I grew up watching and enjoying, but new generation has no idea about.
Or may be the rot is that deep and he’s effectively fulfilling DoF and Manager both roles and that is taking away his time from the team. May be he needs a couple of senior coaches to ease some of that burden, or a solid DoF above him so he can fully focus on management.
I mean, there are valid criticisms to be made on Ole, in that he clearly prefers long term more than what he perceives as short term gain.
He has his preferences which sometimes puzzle me.
He’s a fan who has gone in to somewhat go back to a past that may well be irrelevant now. Like, if I were to be in charge of Cartoon Network tomorrow, and bring back cartoons that I grew up watching and enjoying, but new generation has no idea about.
Or may be the rot is that deep and he’s effectively fulfilling DoF and Manager both roles and that is taking away his time from the team. May be he needs a couple of senior coaches to ease some of that burden, or a solid DoF above him so he can fully focus on management.
All in all, I still dont see Ole as the manager who brings us forward and makes us compete for trophies again. However, he seems to be one of the better choices, he brought many good things back into the club that we lost and he should have had a much better transfer window. If this club had a right setup, we could talk about better managers but under that shit management, Ole is one of the better options even if he is not the best
Bielsa is in the mould of Van Gaal. Very rigid but damn he knows how to coach a team and play a certain and fun way regardless of the players he has.
He had his meltdowns and he's not an easy character, and sure he can't be the coach around here unless everyone is on board with what he asks of the players.
I still remember how he destroyed us with his Athletic Bilbao in the Europa League.
Coaches like him are the proof that the excuse that everyone in here makes for Ole (we don't have quality players, squad depth, not even Klopp would win the league with that dross) is pure bullshit.
Ole isn't even in the same universe with Bielsa as a coach.
There is a genuine question mark around his in-game management/substitutions though.
It's something he needs to improve on.
Ole is doing a very good job management wise. Think about it, in 2018-19 he started magnificently and brought us closer to the top 4 than we would have ever expected when Mourinho was sacked, just falling short at the end because the players were knackered due to his high-pressing style contrasting with Mourinho’s low block style which they were used to. If I remember correctly, we were 11 points off top 4 when he took over, and ended 4 points off despite the late downturn in form. In that same season, Ole also led us to our 2nd best European win against PSG since Fergie.
Then, he got rid of deadwood or players with terrible attitudes like Lukaku, Alexis, Darmian, Young, Smalling, Rojo in 2019-20, and is continuing to do so now with Pereira. He started the season itself badly but when Bruno came in, he built the team around him perfectly and got us into 3rd while playing some scintillating football after lockdown with players like Pogba, Marcus and Mason also in the team. Remember, the maximum expectation before the season started was 4th, and mid-way through, it was 5th behind Chelsea before we signed Bruno. You could obviously attribute the top 4 solely down to Bruno but that would be unfair to Ole as he got the best out of the rest of them too. All things considered, another overachievement. This season, the players are clearly still unfit after having no pre-season but we’ve still won 3 out of our 4 games, albeit against mostly poor opposition. If we make the right signings, like Telles and Sancho, we’re on our way to another decent season.
The only criticism I’ve had of Ole so far is his defending of the board in his press conferences. I loved Mourinho constantly slating the board, no doubt about that, but I didn’t like him publicly slandering individual players. Ole’s got the latter nailed down to a tee, but he has to be more courageous when speaking out against Woodward and co. Otherwise, he’s done a good job as manager here.
Keep.
Then, he got rid of deadwood or players with terrible attitudes like Lukaku, Alexis, Darmian, Young, Smalling, Rojo in 2019-20, and is continuing to do so now with Pereira. He started the season itself badly but when Bruno came in, he built the team around him perfectly and got us into 3rd while playing some scintillating football after lockdown with players like Pogba, Marcus and Mason also in the team. Remember, the maximum expectation before the season started was 4th, and mid-way through, it was 5th behind Chelsea before we signed Bruno. You could obviously attribute the top 4 solely down to Bruno but that would be unfair to Ole as he got the best out of the rest of them too. All things considered, another overachievement. This season, the players are clearly still unfit after having no pre-season but we’ve still won 3 out of our 4 games, albeit against mostly poor opposition. If we make the right signings, like Telles and Sancho, we’re on our way to another decent season.
The only criticism I’ve had of Ole so far is his defending of the board in his press conferences. I loved Mourinho constantly slating the board, no doubt about that, but I didn’t like him publicly slandering individual players. Ole’s got the latter nailed down to a tee, but he has to be more courageous when speaking out against Woodward and co. Otherwise, he’s done a good job as manager here.
Keep.
You're going to have to expand on this because at the moment it seems like over-simplistic guff.
How has Bielsa or any other 'coach like him' proved that Ole doesn't improvements to the squad to kick on and challenge Liverpool and City?
All I'm saying is that the excuse "I don't have the players I want so that's why we can't perform at the moment or we can't challenge or poor performances" is one big pile of bull.
When Van Gaal was here we weren't always brilliant but in every game you could see that there was a plan, a specific way of playing (I'm not saying good or bad, that's another topic) regardless of who's playing. A very structured approach, everyone knows their place in the game. The same thing applies with Bielsa. His football hasn't changed much since his Bilbao side. More or less it's the same thing except in Bilbao and in Chile national squad he had better players.
All this "I want to give players the freedom to express themselves" sounds to me like you're not coaching anything in attack. These days are long gone this was football up until 10 years ago. Everyone now is very structured and tactical but no, Ole wants to give players freedom. Such bullshit.
Also a small squad doesn't necessarily means a bad thing. Mourinho lifted the premier league with 14-15 players in Chelsea in his second stint and Simeone used maximum of 14 players when they lifted La Liga and went to the Champions League final against Real.
Oh wow. I step away from the forum for a few days, and now it's Bielsa is the dog's bollox with the "everything is wrong with the world" crowd.
When did we move on from Nagelsmann & Tuchel?
When did we move on from Nagelsmann & Tuchel?
At the time he said it, we had players in need of confidence, didn’t we. Like Martial learning the trade of number 9 etc. Doesn’t sound like a bad way of giving our forwards public backing, does it? Think our front three did ok, once they were all fit. Actually, they did amazing with all that time on the sideline. If Ole did nothing, Martial, Greenwood and Rashford did alright with that message, did they not? Me, I think they got some good coaching. Or are you unhappy Lingard and Pereira didn’t progress enough?
I don’t know if them numbers are true. But if they are. We can safely say they where lucky with injuries, can we not? I don’t think 14 players will do any good in this compressed season. You need a deep squad. Wait and see. There will be a large portion of players going down with injury this season. Hope we get lucky, or else Ole will be gone, and the Woodward cycle continues..
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Oles being hung out to dry, pretty clear from his presser. Impossible to match last season let alone improve considering he got no backing this summer and thats the way it'll be.
Bielsa have signed 9 players spending only 90 millions. He is the flavour of the months. Just, we like to pretend he doesn’t need to sign players, he just coaches the ones he has..
Yep, and he will be sacked because of this. A new manager will come in and a 2/3 year cycle will be repeated.
It is clear that this is not a club building or planning for the long term, which we were promised.
I really hope Ole comes out and says what he feels when he gets sacked.
He’s willing to shill for them though and I have no sympathy for that. He could easily just have said he was led to believe one thing but things changed and left it at that. He does that when asked about certain players. Instead he’s backpedaling like a little scrote.
I'm sure there will be a non-disclosure agreement, Woodward isn't stupid.
Well, Ole only signed a 2 year contract which will expire this summer so he wont have that much of a payout if they sack him anyway.
Unlike Jose where they had to pay him £20m, it would have included a non-disclosure.
Anyway, even if Ole doesnt come out and say anything, fans know the situation. When we didnt sign anyone for Jose, some fans could understand because he signed 2 CB's in 2 seasons, so signing a 3rd was always an ask.
With Ole, He hasn't signed a forward, instead he has sold some.
And apparently now letting players creative freedom to express themselves is weak management. Pep Guardiola better take note.
Ole shuts up because he wants to stay and make a difference and people moan about him being a shill for shutting up.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Do you honestly expect to be able to talk shit about your boss and company owners publicly and still keep your job?
Tsk tsk tsk. Didn't you get the memo? As of 2 weeks ago, the trend is for Bielsa.
That's a little unfair. Mourinho spoke up and got sacked and people moaned about his negativity.
Ole shuts up because he wants to stay and make a difference and people moan about him being a shill for shutting up.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Do you honestly expect to be able to talk shit about your boss and company owners publicly and still keep your job?
You still don’t burn your ex employer. It is known. A future employer will look at that as a massive negative.
According to Transfermarkt his contract runs to summer 2022.
Unless a dumpsterfire this year I bet they will offer him an extension in spring/early summer.
No manager in world football is winning a league or CL title under Woodward n Judge. Nobody.
I’m specifically saying he doesn’t need to go like Jose but he doesn’t need to defend Woodward either. Defending him isn’t going to save his job come March when we’re mathematically unable to get into top 4. He’s going to get it in the neck and not the Glazers — that’s what’s hurtful. Yet he’s getting on like he owes them something.And apparently now letting players creative freedom to express themselves is weak management. Pep Guardiola better take note.
Tsk tsk tsk. Didn't you get the memo? As of 2 weeks ago, the trend is for Bielsa.
That's a little unfair. Mourinho spoke up and got sacked and people moaned about his negativity.
Ole shuts up because he wants to stay and make a difference and people moan about him being a shill for shutting up.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Do you honestly expect to be able to talk shit about your boss and company owners publicly and still keep your job?
Yup. Ole is trying to salvage a shit situation and trying to avoid a disaster of a season and is backing his players. Inside he's definitely fuming. But unlike Mourinho, he isn't going to just give up on the season because our owners are inept, because he loves the club. Its a lose lose situation.And apparently now letting players creative freedom to express themselves is weak management. Pep Guardiola better take note.
Tsk tsk tsk. Didn't you get the memo? As of 2 weeks ago, the trend is for Bielsa.
That's a little unfair. Mourinho spoke up and got sacked and people moaned about his negativity.
Ole shuts up because he wants to stay and make a difference and people moan about him being a shill for shutting up.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Do you honestly expect to be able to talk shit about your boss and company owners publicly and still keep your job?
Not cool from the board if more signings are not made, but I think the team is young enough that we can still expect improvement. Also, we had Lingard and Pereira for much of last season as creative forces, now we have Pogba, Bruno and DVB.
It's gutting to watch. He deserves so much more after the turnaround last season. With proper backing I truely believe we could have pushed Liverpool. Not saying we'd win the league but definitely close the gap. Really sad.
Fair point.
I think Ole is due some good karma. I've a feeling the bad luck with injuries and bad form won't repeat this year. Ideally we get 3 players in the next four days (HA!) however I think the fans can all see what Ole wants to do and what he needs and that the board aren't matching his and our ambitions. We have to stick with him and let the board know they can't sack him and start again.
But you don’t need to take the heat for Woodward’s transgressions. We’ve had a diabolical window whatever happens over next 72 hours. There is no way we should be in this position in the first place.
Yep, it was time to be aggressive in the market and make a step up. What's gutting is we're going to let this excellent group of young players go to waste because of inept owners not giving 2 fecks about improving the team or results. Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Bruno, Pogba... you gotta kick on and support that quality with what it deserves. Can't even fecking sign Telles for 15m to get some proper depth ffs. We weren't going to challenge for the title this year, but it was time to spend and put ourselves in a position to be ready to challenge next year or the year after, but you have to be ready, like Chelsea are doing.
Unfortunately, its all going to waste and the best we can hope for is top 4 challenges and the occasional cup competition. Thats our limit. Welcome to being Arsenal.
Its not bad luck injuries. Its no depth so we can't rotate when players aren't match fit enough, and then they get overplayed and injuries happen. We have a very normal amount of injuries, it just hits hard when you have no cover.
Well I'm not so sure he has a say in that. The club probably prepares a public "message" that he has to stand by prepared by the marketing team. For now, the focus really should be on the rebuild and the next game.
I suppose, yeah, you could put it that way. One man realised it was a lose lose and gave up. The other one is still soldiering on despite that. It's sad. I don't know if Ole will be successful in his rebuild. I sure hope he will be.
I couldn't agree more. The lack of rotation and substitutions at the end of last season made it clear as day that he didn't trust anyone outside the first 11 to improve the situation.
Have to redefine what successful is for this club I think. Because it definitely isn't title winners anymore.
I'm not sure what you're railing against here. This just seems like an over-simplified straw man for you to have a rant against.
We just came third so I'm not sure what your point is. We don't have a squad strong enough to challenge Liverpool or City for the title or do you disagree?
Bringing up LVG, who for all his prescribed rigid system never came close to challenging, and Bielsa, who hasn't won a title since the 90s in Argentina, seems a little odd in the context.
Your point about Mourinho doesn't hold up at all. You can't just look at league appearances and forget about the commitments of other competitions.
In All competitions:
In 2004/2005: 19 players had > 20 appearances and the remaining 11 had 55 appearances between them.
In 2005/2006: 18 players had > 20 appearances and the remaining 8 had 55 appearances between them.
In 2006/2007: 20 players had > 20 appearances and the remaining 7 had 40 appearances between them.
You're also neglecting to take into account that injuries to key players totally scupper a small squad.
Mourinho's stated aim when he came in was to have 22 quality players so that there was a quality back-up for every position and he spent a lot to try and make that happen.
He took over a team that had come 2nd in the league and reached the semi-final of the CL and immediately brought in the following:
Petr Čech
Arjen Robben
Mateja Kežman
Didier Drogba
Ricardo Carvalho
Over the next two seasons the players he brought in included:
Michael Essien
Salomon Kalou
Andriy Shevchenko
John Obi Mikel
Ashley Cole
Shaun Wright Phillips
If you asked Mourinho at the time if he needed signings to challenge for the title when he took over a team that had finished 11 pts off League winners Arsenal, what do you think his answer would have been?
He has a say what he says in the media. United don’t tell him what rhetoric to push. He’s his own man and it’s quite clear they’re fecking him. He could have easily said that I was led to believe one thing but certain things transpired and we just have to crack on the best we can. Or words to that effect. Saying everything is fine and dandy is just opening oneself up and by proxy shielding those who are actually at fault. That’s my view anyway.
I guess I'm still in denial about that ... hahaha
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