Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
- Start date
- Status
Its like you just discovered what pressing means and now you think it's the be all to end all in a football match
Its like you just discovered what pressing means and now you think it's the be all to end all in a football match
Well get back to me when you've discovered what it means too. Hint: you won't find out at Old Trafford.
It's like no-one wants to admit it's how the Premier League has been won for the last three season - by coaches who just came from Germany.
Don’t worry. We are still trying to win it the old Jose brute force way. We’ll catch on when the league evolves again and probably hire another out of date manager to get us there.
At the moment looking more and more like a Manchester United manager, isn't he? I mean players seem to be convinced of his vision of football. He is assembling quite a lot of good young talent. My expectations of him are increasing by the day to be honest. But really hope the club backs him this summer. He could be the real deal..
That's where Pep learned about pressing was it?
No but it's where he evolved it.
That's where Pep learned about pressing was it?
Got to love how these kids think pressing was only invented recently, or how Klopp/Pep are all there is and has ever been in football management.
Got to love how these old folk think they understand how Pep and Klopp and Flick play now because they have the AC Milan VHS from the eighties.
Why the hell would I not know about pressing?
And Pep mastered pressing at Barca not the german league
And Pep mastered pressing at Barca not the german league
His Bayern and his Barca played rather differently though, wouldn't you say?
My point was regarding how the average United fan actually views Ole. We are looking at this man with prejudice, and it does not give us an accurate reflection of who he is, or where we are at.
This is where supporting United actually distorts the view of many of our fans. Look at the facts here. Arteta has won a few matches against big opposition. Its worthy of admiration. No question.
But.....our manager has done the same. His record against big clubs is outstanding, and over a bigger sample size. Yet Arteta is seen as a worthy coach and Ole is not. Why is that?
I think people often fail to realise how much a set agenda influences their views on a person.
Right, you're gonna have to explain yourself here.
Ole's preferred formation is 4231. The same formation Bayern just demolished CL with. Ole's teams are also known for high pressing. Basically he advocates the type of football you want. You just fail to realize it.
This is correct..
Well there are plenty of articles about how Pep switched from a fairly vanilla tic-a-tac possession approach to a much more varied and sophisticated approach at Bayern. Here's one. The point is that the successful high press teams are nowadays incredibly well organised and positionally drilled - more so that 10 years ago. There's nothing simple about it. That's why you might expect Arteta to do well. He might actually understand how to coach this stuff.
Honestly people seem to think pressing is just loads of midfielders running around in packs tackling high up the pitch. Too much Shearer analysis.
You actually think that?
I'm not saying that. I just wasn't arguing the point.
I don't understand the notion that Ole somehow is unproven.
What he demonstrated in Molde and for the United reserves is that once he has a team that is very strong on paper(compared to his competitors), he will get results. I would argue that these experiences makes him a better candidate than someone who was a good manager a long time ago(Van Gaal and arguably Mourinho) or someone who has worked wonders with very limited funds(Moyes).
You could argue that Ole had 5 things to prove at the highest level, and he's delivered on 4 of them, imo:
1. Dealing with the pressure of being a United manager. Check
2. Dealing with super star egos. Check.
3. Making smart transfers. Check.
4. Being able to beat top opponents. Check(his stats are actually really good).
5. Winning big trophies. Not yet, but it's unreasonable to expect it so quickly.
What he demonstrated in Molde and for the United reserves is that once he has a team that is very strong on paper(compared to his competitors), he will get results. I would argue that these experiences makes him a better candidate than someone who was a good manager a long time ago(Van Gaal and arguably Mourinho) or someone who has worked wonders with very limited funds(Moyes).
You could argue that Ole had 5 things to prove at the highest level, and he's delivered on 4 of them, imo:
1. Dealing with the pressure of being a United manager. Check
2. Dealing with super star egos. Check.
3. Making smart transfers. Check.
4. Being able to beat top opponents. Check(his stats are actually really good).
5. Winning big trophies. Not yet, but it's unreasonable to expect it so quickly.
When he's comfortable with his team he'll most definitely have it press high.
I don't think that. I know that. As I am Norwegian and have seen Ole's Molde play many, many times and I know his style very well - contrary to your ramblings that are taken out of thin air and not fact based. You can even see it in his matches with United. We press high all the time - even against tougher oppositions. Solskjaer wants his team to press high up the pitch.
Solskjaer had managed more than 400 matches before taking over United. Many fail to realise this and perceive him as a newly retired footballer with no managerial experience.
Mate, what the hell?
I think you struggle to understand what words mean. First it was formations and now pressing.
Yes he's evolved his tactics and approach at his various clubs due to the players at his disposal and also the type of football and formations predominant in the leagues he was playing in. That's clear and not up for debate.
Pressing isn't a style of play, however.
Where in that article does it mention anything about an evolution of the manner in which his teams implement the press?
So why does he have a goalkeeper who never leaves his line? He may want to press - who wouldn't? But he doesn't build his team around it.
Because De Gea isn’t that kind of goalkeeper? If he had unlimited funds and could build from scratch, maybe someone else would be guarding our goal, but right now De Gea is our goalkeeper. Asking him to leave his line is asking for trouble. How is that on Ole?
And yes. The team is a relatively high pressing team. Not as good or effective as the very best in the league (City, Liverpool), but a high pressing team nonetheless. This is the single biggest, and most obvious, difference between his style of play and Mourinho. What people have praised as more “attacking football” under Ole is in many ways a result of a team pressing higher and better, not just sitting back and soaking up wave after wave, waiting for the opposition to make a mistake. We rather try to force them to make that mistake. By pressing.
Id like to know what Ole has to do to please those who constantly criticize him; hes got us playing exciting, attacking winning football, made some excellent signings, changed the mentality of the entire club, has got great performances out of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Williams and all the other young players and made Manchester United a team to be feared again. If not for the lock down who knows where we might have finished last season, certainly 3rd maybe 2nd even or at least much closer. After the lock down we hit the deck running and were easily the best team in the Prem although our form dipped the last 5/6 games but much of that can be put down to the amount of games we were playing. In all we had a very good season finishing in the top 4 and reaching the semis in the two cup competitions. Maybe Pocchetino might have done the same, better maybe, but Im only pleased he never got the chance (where is he now, by the way?) Ole is building something special and we should all get behind him but if in 3/4 years we havent improved further then maybe will be the time to look at it again, but personally I think we'll soon be accumulating silver ware, probably not like in Fergies time but Im confident Ole will put us back where we belong.
I think I'd probably want to continue with Ole.
But being completely honest, there is a part of me that thinks he's achieved exactly what we needed from him, like getting rid of a lot of deadwood, recruiting well, bedding in a decent team. He's laid the groundwork for an elite manager to really take the team further.
But being completely honest, there is a part of me that thinks he's achieved exactly what we needed from him, like getting rid of a lot of deadwood, recruiting well, bedding in a decent team. He's laid the groundwork for an elite manager to really take the team further.
I guess because if your press isn't very intense then it's not doing the job. Are you building your team around the ability to press high or are you not? That is what it boils down to, I suppose. Are you buying the players with this in mind. Are you recruiting your coach with this as a priority. Because if you aren't, the lesson of the last three years is that you are going to finish behind the teams that do.
Romero is as good with his feet as Allison and Ederson. So why does he not use him?
I don’t think I even understand what you’re saying, really. Are you saying we should prioritize buying a new goalie? Or that we should sack the manager, and pick a new one based on what kind of goalkeeper we have?
Because he’s worse than De Gea at the other things. Like goalkeeping. If all a goalkeeper has to do is be good with his feet, and that the rest is down to the rest of the team pressing enough, why not just chuck Pogba in goal?
Edit: Also, Romero isn’t as good as Alisson or Ederson with his feet. Sure, he’s better than Dave, but come on.
I think Ole understands de gea has to be replaced and that's why Henderson has been promised first team football but Ole is not ready to just drop De gea like that. Maybe in a year's time de gea may be sold if Henderson actually makes the goalie spot his.
But better at implementing his style no? Was Saha better than RVN? Was Bravo better than Joe Hart? It’s always the big decisions that define you as a manager. But on that note so is dropping Lukaku before the cult attack me.
You got to make them big decisions. They’ll cost you in the short run. He’s done it before he should do it again. If Henderson has a solid start give him the shirt. If he’s good with his feet. I cannot lie and say I’ve watched him much.
Is this actually true?
As far as I recall he's better than
De Gea but his distribution isn't exactly world class.
- Status