I think that where tactics and people management comes into play. For Utd to complete so are we going to be like City? Where they can name 2 XI squad? We need a manager who can put in a tactics and tell a player what is his role. Are these quality player? O'Shea? Fletcher? Evans? Park Ji Sung? Anderson? Hernandez? Why did we continue to have success over a prolong period of time, that is because of Sir Alex. Even though Ole learn from Alex but I still cannot see great things from him in the last 18 months. As soon as 1 player is injure, this team goes down the drain. If Maguire is injure, we will start leaking goals, if Martial is injure then the team stop scoring, once BF or Pogba is injure then the team stop creating. What kind of team is this?
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I think that where tactics and people management comes into play. For Utd to complete so are we going to be like City? Where they can name 2 XI squad? We need a manager who can put in a tactics and tell a player what is his role. Are these quality player? O'Shea? Fletcher? Evans? Park Ji Sung? Anderson? Hernandez? Why did we continue to have success over a prolong period of time, that is because of Sir Alex. Even though Ole learn from Alex but I still cannot see great things from him in the last 18 months. As soon as 1 player is injure, this team goes down the drain. If Maguire is injure, we will start leaking goals, if Martial is injure then the team stop scoring, once BF or Pogba is injure then the team stop creating. What kind of team is this?
I'm in favour of Ole. I think he's on the right way in both recruitment and development of youth. I wonder about his motivational skills due to DDG and Pogba stupid recurring mistakes.
But... if we don't win at Leicester this season will be our lowest tally of points post Fergie and that's something that's hard to overlook. Even if we win we'll just be equal to our pathetic last season.
But... if we don't win at Leicester this season will be our lowest tally of points post Fergie and that's something that's hard to overlook. Even if we win we'll just be equal to our pathetic last season.
The point is that, on paper, our squad isn't remotely good enough for a club competing on three separate fronts - the FA, EL, and domestic league - yet, Ole got us to the semis of the FA Cup, challenging for the EL, and 3rd spot in the league. Does he not deserve credit for that?
Give him another two or three transfer windows to improve the squad and we'll see a noticeable difference in our fortunes. He's proven himself reliable in the transfer market, he just needs time and funding to make it happen.
Those are absolutely quality players and for some of them some of the best their countries have ever produced. All except Anderson really and even he won a world cup.
It won’t be though. Liverpool’s squad isn’t good enough. But they have won a Champions League and Premier League. They’ve done this because there manager is top level. We can’t do this because our manager isn’t top level. If we give him the best team in the league we might win a league. But the risk reward of that is so high you know the board will not see it out.
We have indeed outspent most clubs. We’ve just spent wrong by backing LvG and Jose. We’re paying for that now. A far bigger symptom of losing the big club mentality is our fans’ borderline delusional backing of DdG. Our spending is not meager by any measure and we’ve only really been outgunned in the market by the oil clubs. Spend incorrectly thought and nothing is ever enough. Look at Barca for evidence.
Absolutely, but many posters on here are not doing that are they? Look at the post match threads, and how many new threads are started when we drop points.
If an average post match thread after a good win is 8 pages, and the average pages after dropped points is well into the 20's, that there is an awful lot of people that are not bothering to post after a good win (ie support the club) but can't wait to post after dropped points.
I understand that people are more likely to post when they are frustrated. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. Those people however should all be aware of how agenda driven they, and their opinions, appear to others
Every season is different from the last though. If you were to say we would be 3rd, 15 points behind City you would think fair enough.
Injuries in the first half of the season killed us. Thats a major contributer to our points total.
Fans were talking about major overhauls and being years behind challenging the top 2. Now we are a few tweaks away with squad depth being the major issue in doing so imo. Thats actual managerial excellence on display
I’m pretty sure you have no balls either! From the last few weeks I’ve not seen much support from you towards the team. Pressure getting to you? Or have your timing always been this far off?
I saw a good video on Utd stand this morning, about agendas and not supporting the team. I think you and rafael is two of the most active posters toward Manchester Devided. I just don’t get it. It’s not like you have any constructive criticism. It’s just blabber on and on..
So getting back into the CL for next year, not to mention the knock-on effect of being able to attract better players, means nothing to you?
That the Liverpool squad achieved what it has while making minimal changes to the starting eleven is a story in itself. Miraculous fitness coaching or PED's (performance-enhancing drugs)? You decide.
Either way, Klopp is the manager of Liverpool and frankly one of the best in his position worldwide, the comparison with Ole is unfounded. You cannot expect Ole to operate on the same level as Klopp just because you want him to.
I agree which is why many fans have been asking for a DOF for years now. Not that getting one in place is a guarantee either. I agree the DDg stuff shows another way in which our standards are dropping.
Yes agreed. It definitely is a transitional season and as such injuries will hurt us more than normally should. Rashford injury in particular was a blow and of course the Pogba nonsense. I wouldn't go as far as saying managerial excellence, rather a necessary step in the right direction by moving some deadwood towards the door and some decent recruitment. There is a long way to go still.
But 63-66 points is always a disappointment.
It's not just that people are more likely to post but criticisms usually result in debate which in turns makes the threads longer. When it's a circlejerk about a result or player that will naturally fizzle out quicker.
I meant in terms of points. We now stand on 63 ponts and finished last season with 66, Moyes got 64 points to put things into perspective.
I'll obivously be happy wht CL spot.
Leaks in the past few years suggest that we tried to hire a few other managers before we ended up with Moyes. Apparently even Mourinho. Moyes should've never been hired, he was rightly fired, and should've gone earlier. I agree.
I disagree with the other two. If we fired Van Gaal by christmas, chances are we wouldn't have got Mourinho anyway, and not giving Mourinho a chance after finishing 2nd and winning the Europa League would've been wrong. Ballsy, sure, but wrong.
See, this doesn't make any sense to me. We have tried 4 (5, if you count Giggsy) managers since Sir Alex Ferguson, and you and @Mainoldo would´ve preferd if we had 6, 7, or even 8 in the same span? Yet you claim you're "all for stability with the right manager"?
If we actually hire a competent DOF, and have a solid, world class core of players, sure. But with the dross we've had to deal with for the past 7 seasons, any chance for stability and finding out who the right manager actually is, is completely unrealistic. They all break the bank for players who suit their philosophy, making it impossible for anyone who comes after to actually perform well enough to create any sort of stability. Heck, they couldn't even do it themselves with the players they signed!
Compare us with Barca, Madrid, Juventus and Bayern, for example. For them to be as ruthless as they are when it comes to changing the manager, the squad needs to be world class, and for the new manager to come to a well run organization ready to compete. Not only the first XI, but the squad, club and organization as a whole. We have, and haven't had, none of those things in many, many years now.
If you can't compete for the league title and/or CL with the squads those teams have, you deserve to be fired. The manager isn't even in charge of, barely even involved in, player logistics in those clubs.
When we have an objectively world class squad, and a legitimate claim to be a well run football club (not just a well run business), we can start acting like the ruthless clubs elsewhere in Europe.
G
Great post
It is the strangest transfer ban in the history of transfer bans. They bought Pulisic and Kovacic during their 'ban'.
Our squad is clearly going through a massive transisition, we cleared out most of Jose's signings and the signings that Ole has brought in has largely been a success.
We have also been playing well since he has playing his preferred first 11. Dips in form happen, especially when you have 4 games in 9 days and a poor bench.
Will judge him end of the season. I think we all got carried away when Bruno came in, the form picked up, performances were exciting, but you cant forget the first half of the season up until Christmas which was dreadful. Also at the crunch time, the team looks to be flagging with little evidence of Ole turning it around.
I think we would all agree Champions league is a must this season. Also it depends on player recruitment in the summer. We dont need more signing like James. We need real quality to come in, and to come off the bench. That's one of the reasons I would suspect why Ole is reluctant to make changes because the quality on the bench is not there.
I think we would all agree Champions league is a must this season. Also it depends on player recruitment in the summer. We dont need more signing like James. We need real quality to come in, and to come off the bench. That's one of the reasons I would suspect why Ole is reluctant to make changes because the quality on the bench is not there.
I don't know if he's the man that's going to take us back to the top and lead us to titles, but what I will say is that the next manager will find the club in much better shape than what Ole was given.
Even if he doesn't go on to win major honours, you have to commend the rebuild he has done, and seems to have brought some identity back to the club once more.
This season is a confusing one, I see shades of last season at times, but at the same time I see some of the most promising signs in years. I would like to see him given another year, and see what we do next year, as the team is clearly evolving under him.
Brining in a few names will be key in the summer, our squad depth is poor, quality wise.
Even if he doesn't go on to win major honours, you have to commend the rebuild he has done, and seems to have brought some identity back to the club once more.
This season is a confusing one, I see shades of last season at times, but at the same time I see some of the most promising signs in years. I would like to see him given another year, and see what we do next year, as the team is clearly evolving under him.
Brining in a few names will be key in the summer, our squad depth is poor, quality wise.
In fact @Rafaeldagold I couldn't resist checking. In the post threads after the wins at Palace, Brighton & Villa you didn't bother to post anything at all. After the Bournemouth win you posted:
Greenwood is a Gem & front line looks great. But we didn’t play as well today as we have done previously, didn’t look structured at all.
And DDG was terrible for the goal & awful kicking today too- he needs to be replaced for next season
Not a completely critical post ,but leaning that way its fair to say. Seems you haven't yet found the right balance between supporting the club and congratulating the team versus being extremely prolific in your criticism after dropped points.
Great post
Fair point but its also got a lot to do with the culture of this forum lately. From the little I've seen of RAWK for example they never seem to get tired of talking about how wonderful Liverpool are (and this was during periods when they were ordinary - god only knows whats it like on there these days). We are at the opposite end of the spectrum unfortunately. When we are winning half the forum goes into hiding.
Oh so they are cheats?
I’m not sure what your saying. Are you confirm Ole isn’t good enough?
I was being honest with my appraisal of the Bournemouth game & unfortunately I think I was proved right in subsequent games that we were on a poor run of form & DDG has got worse somehow - I did praise how great Greenwood is & that day at least our attackers kept us well in the game.
I always always support the club though. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t bother posting on here
I appreciate the post and your right we can’t just be continuously sacking managers mid season. But it’s not the sacking that’s the problem. It’s the hiring and as you pointed out if we had a DoF this would have been sorted. You don’t hire LVG and what he brings by then deciding not to evolve they Philosophy by bringing a man of similar ilk. I.e Pep. I wanted Mourinho I’m not going to hide that. But it wasn’t the right decision for the manner in which we was building the team. Rashford and Martial being the focal point. Hire Poch then I’m telling you we would be in a much better position now. But we are here now and we have a guy who has built a good foundation to move on. He’s set a solid first 11 missing a RW a DM and arguably a keeper to compete at the top. However what he doesn’t offer is good squad rotation, good in game management and a good flowing system for these players to evolve. This is where your DoF makes the change and improves the manager. We want and what we will have is a good set of players who will once again be miss managed and inconsistent.
Our past 3 games included a cup game too.
Are you happy with our performances v Saints, Palace, Chelsea and West Ham? Were you happy with our performances and form in the first half of the season?
I didn't want Mou because of the baggage, but I've always maintained that he did a good job that season. We may have finished 6th and irrespective of whether we had won EL and LC or not, I would have liked him to continue. There were obvious improvements in our playing style (ofcourse we played too conservative for my liking against the likes of City and Pool) and had we had a bit more luck in the attacking end, we would have finished in top 4.
The argument is really simple - players play a more crucial role against smaller teams, and manager a bigger role against similar stature/bigger teams. In our case, our players have been run ragged due to fixture congestion and thanks to lack of depth, we need to field those tired legs every game
If we get third this would be the best season post Fergie in the sense that we now have a good squad and we are looking to build even more on that with the likes of Sancho etc . If we end up bottling it and losing out of top 4 it would be just like the average season post fegie in the sense that we keep bottling our chances to progress and our mental fragility is still there ever since Fergie left. And I certainly wouldn't trust Ole to take us far after bottling the top 4 chance two seasons in a row.
I'll not comment on Chelsea's transfer ban, but they've still been pretty crap this season and we should not be using them as a benchmark.
See, I don't think we've actually been as good as we looked during the first few league games after lockdown. We were a bit better than Spurs, but still created very little. Our performances against SHU and Brighton were great, but it must be said that they offered very little. We became shaky when Bournemouth attacked us, and again when Villa pressed us aggressively. We were unable to control the game against Southampton and CP, and the Chelsea performance was just a debacle.
I don't think these are mere dips in form, but rather indicators of certain systemic weaknesses with our team. Our performances post-lockdown suggest to me that Ole does not have a robust system for our players to play through the different challenges posed by different opponents. Teams like SHU and Brighton who give our talented players time and space get dominated because our players have time to improvise their way through the opponents' defences. Teams who don't give us that time and space however cause us so many problems because without that drilled system in place, our players need too much time to think about their next step. Ole has done many things reasonably well, particularly in his improvement of individual performances, but he has fallen short so far in terms of putting together a system that minimises our reliance on improvisation and individual form. I believe this is a key weakness that will prevent him from making us an elite team.
Well, then why get hung up on the points? It seems bizarre to me.
Because it shows our competition hasn’t been as great as previous years in achieving top 4. Therefore I’m not sure top 4= Ole stays should be an automatic thought process
Look at the fannying around that goes in our box. Do you think SAF would have waited in his seat? He would be out and cursing the whole lot.
His game management is one of the poorest I have seen from a top club.
His game management is one of the poorest I have seen from a top club.
I’m a positive advocate of Paul Pogba and unjustified criticism which is mainly due to him being foreign and dare I say it black. So don’t talk to me about agenda’s.
There’s no agenda. I see flaws in our management system that even with greater players will still be present and prevent us from winning a title. I share my view on that. Having debates on a Internet forum is not wrong. Having a debate to quiet people who speak out on what is considered treason (Not sticking behind your manager at all times) is actually the true agenda.
I will have a back and forth with anyone on here but what I don’t like is people name calling because they can’t be bothered to discuss a topic or have a point of view. If you have an alternative view to mine then express it; if you don’t like the content of this thread then go to another one. I like transfer gossip and when the transfer market opens back up I’ll spend all of my time in the transfer forum with the muppets. Those that don’t like those stuff tend not to be there. Get my drift.
Really? Do you think higher or lower point accumulation has nothing to say about progression between seasons?
What in gods name makes you think that any of these things can't possibly apply to us?
Moot examples, those clubs have wastly more resources and pulling power than their league competition.
We have been one of the best teams since the restart. Two draws then we are suddenly a small time club. Its absurd.
I know what you think but if the other poster is happy to get back into the CL, why get hung up on the points compared to a previous year?
If we get into CL it's job done, it's worth a massive amount of money to the club and we'll be able to attract better players as a result. The young players will also be better again next year.
Bemoaning a points total when we've gone from 9th/10th to 3rd seems wilfully negative to me. You're welcome to your negativity if that's what floats your boat, of course.
You cant ignore that Ole has done good for us post the great Mourinho depression. Especially if we get top 4. I really hope he does well and takes us further. However I am still at a loss to understand what his strategy is. I dont think anyone knows. He has gone from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 to 5 at the back with a false 9 and all sorts. Yes this could be attributed to lack of personnel. But lets say we think his plan is 4-2-3-1. Are the signings he's made suitable for this. Maguire - slow, not aggressive. Means we struggle to have a high line. Wan B. Cant attack. Was the plan to have a RB that does not contribute in attack much. Does a number 10 work in this day and age with most teams moving away from this type of formation. It means that the midfield will consist of 2 and will get overrun. If thats what you are going for then shouldn't the midfield 2 be defensive? i.e. Will Pogba + Matic(or another) DM work. Or will it just be overrun in a number of games. Was Fernandes bought as a number 10 or an 8. Is he a number 10 because we had no Pogba and 2 defensive - ish midfielders. If so what now if Pogba stays.
So many questions with so little answers. We still need an identity and a plan. Then we buy players that fit that strategy instead of buying good players. Good players are useless unless they fit the way you want to play.
So many questions with so little answers. We still need an identity and a plan. Then we buy players that fit that strategy instead of buying good players. Good players are useless unless they fit the way you want to play.
Oh so they are cheats?
I’m not sure what your saying. Are you confirm Ole isn’t good enough?
No, I'm confirming (if it even needed confirming) that Ole does not operate on the same managerial level as Klopp.
Klopp is the best and most sought after manager in the game, Ole is not.
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