Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[romufc]

I told people he’s a serial liar. He just never gets called out on it. I also said he’s team he has managing the fitness side at the club are rumoured to be trash. I mean when is the last time you heard of United doing a bleep test? How backwards.

I think we all know he lies alot. This is quite worrying about the team though. We always start well with high intensity after a break.

Ole's temp reign - started well pressed well and 4/5 games later looked crap
Start of the season - started well and pressed well in games 4/5 games later crap
Winter break - came back looked sharp and again went off the boil
Post lockdown - started well looked sharp and again now labouring

It is a recurring theme now with this team.

 

[Jonno]

He's done the best he could really considering we're playing every 2-3 days constantly. The players are visibly tired. Look how good AWB was compared to TFM once he came on. He was a different player because he finally got some rest.

The squad has drastically improved, we've now got one of the best attacking lines in world football, and thats 100% on Ole.

Fingers crossed, we clinch a CL spot, we rest, finally for a 1-2 weeks before having a real go at the Europa League. Most level headed, mature Man United fans, will see that as doing the most with what Ole has at his disposal.

 

[Jonno]

I like Ole and I think he has done a good job but the last week has been trash.

Why are we not seing anything he says?

Ole said he wants us to be the fittest team. The last 4 games the opponents have looked fitter
Ole said he wants a pressing team - when was the last time we saw us press teams? Palace and West Ham pressed us more than we pressed them... how is that happening?

We've played 4 games in 9 days. Let that sink in. Chelsea had 48 extra hours to prepare against us, West Ham, had 48 hours extra to prepare against us. It's impossible for any 11 to be able to play to their best for 4 straight games in 9 days. The best teams rotate, but we're not in that place yet because if we rotate, we play Lingard and Dan James.

Have patience, let him grow the squad, next season the games will be less condensed.

 

[Rash Decision]

For anyone to make that claim they would need a far better understanding of tactics and coaching than the average football fan.

People dont think this stuff through. You can look at absolutely any other club and see countless examples of 'good player was signed and team got better' or alternatively 'good player left and team got worse' and yet its just accepted as being how football works.

Not by all of the armchair experts on here though. They think we have such a doofus in charge (despite all evidence to the contrary) that our best chance of progress is to make enough signings so that the team will improve IN SPITE of him. I mean, its beyond laughable really.

Sorry I don't get your argument. Are you saying we are not qualified to have reservations about Ole's coaching ability?

 

[romufc]

We've played 4 games in 9 days. Let that sink in. Chelsea had 48 extra hours to prepare against us, West Ham, had 48 hours extra to prepare against us. It's impossible for any 11 to be able to play to their best for 4 straight games in 9 days. The best teams rotate, but we're not in that place yet because if we rotate, we play Lingard and Dan James.

Have patience, let him grow the squad, next season the games will be less condensed.

I appreciate that, hence why some slack towards him.

Chelsea played the same team against Liverpool and were still running around looking sharp, passing well, creating goal scoring chances.

We couldn't get near West Ham players.

 

[Mainoldo]

We've played 4 games in 9 days. Let that sink in. Chelsea had 48 extra hours to prepare against us, West Ham, had 48 hours extra to prepare against us. It's impossible for any 11 to be able to play to their best for 4 straight games in 9 days. The best teams rotate, but we're not in that place yet because if we rotate, we play Lingard and Dan James.

Have patience, let him grow the squad, next season the games will be less condensed.

What’s wrong with playing Lingard and James? I mean we played West Ham. It’s like Pep moaning he couldn’t win the league because he had to play Foden instead of Jadon Sancho and Jesus instead of Mbappe.

Also we’ve still collected more points than the majority of these teams that have had an extra day rest. So it means nothing. What we can judge is how they are performing on the pitch.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Its amazing how thin the margins are in football. We could draw 0-0 on Sunday and finish 3rd. Or we could get a flukey penalty against us in the last minute, lose 1-0, and finish 5th. A single moment in that 1 game, and Ole would go from being seen as having had a decent season, to being seen as a failing manager.

 

[Red Company]

Can't let that pass.

The accusation against the Glazers is not that they didn't spend money. The accusation is that (a) they financed the purchase of the club by debt which the club was obliged to pay off, and so didn't spend enough money to compete with Chelsea and then City. And (b) they structured the club around commercial revenue maximisation which led to bad football decisions and infrastructures, meaning the money they did spend was badly spent, and the top football people wouldn't work for them.

United will never be a world leading club on the field while the Glazers own the club.

The breakdown you stated in regards to what the glazers didn’t do right is correct, although partially.

Referring to the bolded parts...
You mentioned the money we spent on transfers, which was A LOT, wasn’t enough. And it was spent badly.

While you’re right that it was spent badly, it was by no means insufficient in any way. Had we spent it wisely, it was enough to put a team together which would have already been back to the top.

 

[Pretzels81]

We will defeat Leicester and this thread will have (yet another) facelift.

 

[Mainoldo]

Its amazing how thin the margins are in football. We could draw 0-0 on Sunday and finish 3rd. Or we could get a flukey penalty against us in the last minute, lose 1-0, and finish 5th. A single moment in that 1 game, and Ole would go from being seen as having had a decent season, to being seen as a failing manager.

Which is why you should judge things appropriately and not just on the fluke of a game. Regardless of if we win or lose on Sunday we should have enough information by now to judge this team and the person managing it. Abit like how we missed judged a team finishing second on 81points.

 

[Jonno]

I appreciate that, hence why some slack towards him.

Chelsea played the same team against Liverpool and were still running around looking sharp, passing well, creating goal scoring chances.

We couldn't get near West Ham players.

Chelsea played the same team and got ripped apart and conceded 5.

West Ham had 2 extra days. Apart from Rices' shot and a silly penalty, DDG wasn't really troubled all game. We whilst not at our best had many more opportunities even if not in complete control.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It's not hard to see at this point that he relies heavily on individual quality. Give him one of these lower teams and he would have gotten Burnley or Brighton relegated. That's my problem with him

 

[Mainoldo]

Chelsea played the same team and got ripped apart and conceded 5.

West Ham had 2 extra days. Apart from Rices' shot and a silly penalty, DDG wasn't really troubled all game. We whilst not at our best had many more opportunities even if not in complete control.

Your not listening to what he said though. There fitness levels were much better. There’s has to be a reason for that. They lost because they aren’t that good. We draw because West Ham aren’t that good. We can rely on individuals for a whole season if we want. But it plays out exactly how it has been with proof of last season being the same.

 

[Jonno]

What’s wrong with playing Lingard and James? I mean we played West Ham. It’s like Pep moaning he couldn’t win the league because he had to play Foden instead of Jadon Sancho and Jesus instead of Mbappe.

Also we’ve still collected more points than the majority of these teams that have had an extra day rest. So it means nothing. What we can judge is how they are performing on the pitch.

Eh? It's nothing like Pep moaning he had to play Foden. Foden is their equivalent talent-wise to us playing Greenwood.

Are you saying City's squad depth and quality is the same as Uniteds? Because thats what it sounds like.

City can rotate because Jesus will come in and score, because Foden will look the part. Dan James, Lingard, do not do that.

It's called strength in depth. Half of our depth is out on loan because of previous manager failings.

I don't blame Ole for playing his best squad continuously. It's a freak situation, a global pandemic forcing clubs to play in short spaces of time, no moreso than United, 2 days less to prepare than Chelsea, 2 days less to prepare than West Ham.

 

[Kurton]

For anyone to make that claim they would need a far better understanding of tactics and coaching than the average football fan.

People dont think this stuff through. You can look at absolutely any other club and see countless examples of 'good player was signed and team got better' or alternatively 'good player left and team got worse' and yet its just accepted as being how football works.

Not by all of the armchair experts on here though. They think we have such a doofus in charge (despite all evidence to the contrary) that our best chance of progress is to make enough signings so that the team will improve IN SPITE of him. I mean, its beyond laughable really.

That's such a strawman. So because you are not well-versed in a field you cannot criticize someone at all. Don't we criticize actor's performances in movies without having taken acting courses or ever having acted? Don't we criticize politicians when we have no knowledge of how to run a country? That's just poor defense. With your logic, we should just accept whatever crap we get from people in roles of influence as we're armchair whatever.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

It's not hard to see at this point that he relies heavily on individual quality. Give him one of these lower teams and he would have gotten Burnley or Brighton relegated. That's my problem with him

Exactly this unfortunately. We are top 4 (at the moment) in spite of Ole not because of him.

 

[romufc]

Chelsea played the same team and got ripped apart and conceded 5.

They got ripped apart, we know Chelsea have defensive problems.

Your not listening to what he said though. There fitness levels were much better.

Exactly, them being ripped apart has nothing to do with fitness. They started Kovacic and Jorginho in midfield.. let that sink in. They pressed Liverpool and they didn't look tired like we do.

 

[Jonno]

Your not listening to what he said though. There fitness levels were much better. There’s has to be a reason for that. They lost because they aren’t that good. We draw because West Ham aren’t that good. We can rely on individuals for a whole season if we want. But it plays out exactly how it has been with proof of last season being the same.

Eh? Their fitness levels looked better because they had to play against a completely different style of team. We were playing against a side sitting deep for 90 mins. If we played against an attacking Liverpool we would have had space to run into and counter on, exactly like Chelsea did.

It's incredibly unfair to say we weren't as fit as Chelsea. Bruno, Martial and Rashford would have relished playing in the space that Liverpool kept leaving Chelsea all game. West Ham closed the door, which in turn changes the style of the game.

 

[Jonno]

They got ripped apart, we know Chelsea have defensive problems.



Exactly, them being ripped apart has nothing to do with fitness. They started Kovacic and Jorginho in midfield.. let that sink in. They pressed Liverpool and they didn't look tired like we do.

It was a completely different style of game. If we played Liverpool last night, Rashford, Martial, Bruno and Mason would have had a field day, they wouldn't have stopped running in behind.

We were playing against a team with 10 men behind the ball. Completely different style of game.

 

[Bilbo]

Sorry I don't get your argument. Are you saying we are not qualified to have reservations about Ole's coaching ability?

I'm saying nobody on here is qualified enough to make such a sweeping statement along the lines that we need to buy a team of superhuman players so that they can overcome the apparent shortfalls of Ole and his coaching staff

 

[Mainoldo]

Eh? It's nothing like Pep moaning he had to play Foden. Foden is their equivalent talent-wise to us playing Greenwood.

Are you saying City's squad depth and quality is the same as Uniteds? Because thats what it sounds like.

City can rotate because Jesus will come in and score, because Foden will look the part. Dan James, Lingard, do not do that.

It's called strength in depth. Half of our depth is out on loan because of previous manager failings.

I don't blame Ole for playing his best squad continuously. It's a freak situation, a global pandemic forcing clubs to play in short spaces of time, no moreso than United, 2 days less to prepare than Chelsea, 2 days less to prepare than West Ham.

My point is City are trying to win a league. We are trying to get top 4. Clearly a gulf in quality is the reason both teams sit where they are. But by no means does it mean we can’t rotate because Jesse Lingard isn’t as good as Foden. I mean we’ll durgh... we aren’t in a title battle. You think Chelsea are moaning because they have to rotate Giroud and Abraham? Or Pulisic and Pedro?

 

[Jonno]

My point is City are trying to win a league. We are trying to get top 4. Clearly a gulf in quality is the reason both teams sit where they are. But by no means does it mean we can’t rotate because Jesse Lingard isn’t as good as Foden. I mean we’ll durgh... we aren’t in a title battle. You think Chelsea are moaning because they have to rotate Giroud and Abraham? Or Pulisic and Pedro?

City are trying to win the league, because they have had a manager in place for a number of years and a transfer strategy which has resulted in a star studded team with options to rotate every week.

Man United aren't there yet. We're two years off having a squad like that, so in turn, we're not in a position to rotate like City do.

Ole isn't rotating because the options aren't good enough and that's not his fault. His transfer dealings have been excellent and we've made strides forward.

We're 1 game away from finishing 3rd with the chance to win a cup.

 

[romufc]

It was a completely different style of game. If we played Liverpool last night, Rashford, Martial, Bruno and Mason would have had a field day, they wouldn't have stopped running in behind.

We were playing against a team with 10 men behind the ball. Completely different style of game.

Ha! We wouldn't get out our own half. Like the Chelsea game. Don't kid yourself.

 

[anant]

It’s happening unfortunately as they’re better coached. Ole does rely on the individual brilliance of our players.

I’m quite certain that if you put any other half decent manager in there he would do better than Ole. We are scrambling into the top 4 in spite of Ole, not because of him.

This is one of those rubbish arguments that gets thrown on and on and on.

I doubt that there's one manager who's won titles and had a period of dominance with a shite squad. Ofcourse, you need individual brilliance to achieve things. Where was Pep when he just had KdB, Aguero, Sterling and Yaya? What about Klopp without VVD, Alisson and Salah?

People forget that against the bottom half sides, you need individual brilliance of players, not tactics to break them down. If a side is defending at the 18 yard box, how much can you stretch their defence?

The issue with the side is around quality depth. You can't play this kind of football with the same XI every 2.5-3 days as they will run into the ground. And as far as substitutions yesterday were concerned, he should have made the changes, but its understandable that was concerned about losing the 1 point as well by making the change

 

[DarkLord]

I don't think he is the right manager for us unfortunately as much as I love Ole. Pains me to say this. We have a purple patch where we go on a winning streak and then we start dropping silly points. A lot of romanticism because he is a Man United legend and leeway given, if this was Jose/LVG/Moyes, everyone would be calling for their heads.

What if Bruno Fernandes gets injured next season? A good manager has the ability to make mediocre/average players shine with his system and tactics like Klopp and prime Jose. I do admire Ole's ability to bring a good dressing room atmosphere and never throwing players under the bus. But we should have never been in this position where we have to go to Leicester with so much pressure on the last day. Lose and game over.

If we had beaten West Ham by a few goals, top 4 is virtually confirmed.

I'll wait until end of the season to judge him but my take is as long as he gets us into UCL next season either by top 4 or winning the EL, he deserves to be our manager for next season. And no more early season blues like losing so many points. If there's any early signs of next season like this, I think he should make way for a new manager. People criticize managers for not given enough time but I think as compared to other clubs, we've given Ole's enough time to stamp his mark. Real Madrid and Chelsea have done pretty well in their trophy haul considering their turnover of managers.

 

[Canagel]

What’s wrong with playing Lingard and James? I mean we played West Ham. It’s like Pep moaning he couldn’t win the league because he had to play Foden instead of Jadon Sancho and Jesus instead of Mbappe.

Also we’ve still collected more points than the majority of these teams that have had an extra day rest. So it means nothing. What we can judge is how they are performing on the pitch.

Youre talking avout a manager that rushed Pogba back injured vs Rochdale because he was afraid of losing. Expecting rotation was maybe too much, unless you have a system and style of play of course

 

[Withnail]

I'm still annoyed by the Chelsea game! Why in the world didn't he rest rest Bruno and a few others and play Ighalo, fred etc.

Why hasn't be utilised Fred more? He was having his best season for us before the lockdown. Why doesn't he try Mata when the opposition sits back?? He's run the players into the ground, playing the same team every matchday, such amateurish management

It's a real concern.

However, when he's brought players off the bench they haven't exactly staked a claim. For the Norwich game, he gave Fred, McT, Lingard, Mata and Dalot a start and they didn't impress at all against the worst side in the league.

There is an argument he should have given Fred/McT more game-time, as they were flying before lock-down, but as every game was a must-win it doesn't seem like he could trust them unless we were a few goals up.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

If we have a poll asking, can Ole beat Klopp's Liverpool or Pep's City to a title in the next 5 years. I doubt even 10% of this forum would say yes. Our aim is the title. Can Ole get us that title is the only question we should be asking.

 

[Rash Decision]

I'm saying nobody on here is qualified enough to make such a sweeping statement along the lines that we need to buy a team of superhuman players so that they can overcome the apparent shortfalls of Ole and his coaching staff

Gotcha. Needing a team of superhuman players to overcome Ole's coaching weaknesses is an exaggeration, but there's reasonable doubt surrounding his ability to get the most out of his squad. We don't need expert knowledge in football to see that our team is lacking in certain areas that can be associated with a coaching inadequacy. He could prove us wrong, but he certainly hasn't proven himself to be at the level we need yet.

 

[Withnail]

What’s wrong with playing Lingard and James? I mean we played West Ham. It’s like Pep moaning he couldn’t win the league because he had to play Foden instead of Jadon Sancho and Jesus instead of Mbappe.

Also we’ve still collected more points than the majority of these teams that have had an extra day rest. So it means nothing. What we can judge is how they are performing on the pitch.

I think we all know what is wrong with that and your comparison is bananas.

 

[FrankDrebin]

It's not hard to see at this point that he relies heavily on individual quality. Give him one of these lower teams and he would have gotten Burnley or Brighton relegated. That's my problem with him

I mean,he did.

 

[EwanI Ted]

They got ripped apart, we know Chelsea have defensive problems.

Exactly, them being ripped apart has nothing to do with fitness. They started Kovacic and Jorginho in midfield.. let that sink in. They pressed Liverpool and they didn't look tired like we do.

To be fair they were very flat against Crystal Palace and Norwich and got run ragged by Sheffield United, so its not like they've been turning out high energy performances every week.

 

[Mainoldo]

Eh? Their fitness levels looked better because they had to play against a completely different style of team. We were playing against a side sitting deep for 90 mins. If we played against an attacking Liverpool we would have had space to run into and counter on, exactly like Chelsea did.

It's incredibly unfair to say we weren't as fit as Chelsea. Bruno, Martial and Rashford would have relished playing in the space that Liverpool kept leaving Chelsea all game. West Ham closed the door, which in turn changes the style of the game.

Excuses. Excuses. Excuses. Excuses

You do know Liverpool are probably the fittest team in the league. If we played them we would have been just tired because we would have played 5 at the back letting them have the ball for 70 minutes.

 

[Infra-red]

It's not hard to see at this point that he relies heavily on individual quality. Give him one of these lower teams and he would have gotten Burnley or Brighton relegated. That's my problem with him

That is also my impression. There has been a lot of talk about the improvement Ole and his staff have brought to the team, but frankly, between February 2019 and January 2020, I saw no signs of improvement whatsoever. During that period we were largely terrible and the only highlights were when we reverted to a Mourinhoesque low block and played on the break, which sometimes got us a result against one of the bigger sides. The rest of it was dreadful, with no noticeable signs of progress with or without the ball - in fact there was very little evidence of any coaching whatsoever. We made our worst start to a season in 30 years.

Then, in January 2020, we sign Fernandes. I cannot recall many new signings who have had a bigger impact on one of the big Premier League clubs. Not only has he been excellent, but he has instantly improved those around him as well. The results and the style of football have markedly improved since he joined and that has continued post-lockdown.

However, in the last four games, Fernandes has looked tired and we've only managed one win. In the last two games he's looked utterly exhausted and we've been appalling - every bit as bad as we were for most of 2019. We're not a one-man team, we do have other talented players, but it is becoming clear just how reliant Solskjaer is on the individual quality of a couple of players - if they can't make the magic happen, Ole has absolutely no idea what to do. He has been managing this team since December 2018 - we still can't press properly, we still don't look comfortable playing out from the back, we still take too many touches on the ball, we still can't deal with opposition pressing, we still pass the ball too slowly, we still look disorganised at set pieces - aside from a bit of scouting, what the hell have Ole and his staff been doing for the last 18 months?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

This is one of those rubbish arguments that gets thrown on and on and on.

I doubt that there's one manager who's won titles and had a period of dominance with a shite squad. Ofcourse, you need individual brilliance to achieve things. Where was Pep when he just had KdB, Aguero, Sterling and Yaya? What about Klopp without VVD, Alisson and Salah?

People forget that against the bottom half sides, you need individual brilliance of players, not tactics to break them down. If a side is defending at the 18 yard box, how much can you stretch their defence?

The issue with the side is around quality depth. You can't play this kind of football with the same XI every 2.5-3 days as they will run into the ground. And as far as substitutions yesterday were concerned, he should have made the changes, but its understandable that was concerned about losing the 1 point as well by making the change

We don’t have a shite squad at all

 

[DRM]

Maybe i'm being too critical, but have we actually beaten any relatively decent side since the restart?

Spurs - draw
Soton - draw
Chelsea - lost

Perhaps you can say we beat sheffield United comfortably. Other than that, we've beaten the cannon fodders like B'mouth, villa, brighton. Scraped through against Norwich and god knows we were lucky again palace.

 

[spiriticon]

This thread does my head in.

If Ole isn't the man because his CV is poor , it boggles my mind that the same Ole out group are championing Poch, Nagelsmann, Rose and other random no names who all have won sweet feck all of note in their careers.

It doesn't make sense.

If you want champions you talk about Pep, Klopp, Conte or Zidane. If none are available, stick with Ole.

 

[rotherham_red]

Nonsense. This isn't about today or about one penalty, it's about the last 3 games as well, and the first half of the season when we had relegation form.

Funny you should mention the last three games - do you want to know what the form of the teams above and around us has been over the course of the last 3 games?

Liverpool: 4 points from 9
City: 6 from 9
Utd: 5 from 9
Chelsea: 4 from 9
Leicester: 3 from 9

Get a grip, ffs.

 

[Mainoldo]

City are trying to win the league, because they have had a manager in place for a number of years and a transfer strategy which has resulted in a star studded team with options to rotate every week.

Man United aren't there yet. We're two years off having a squad like that, so in turn, we're not in a position to rotate like City do.

Ole isn't rotating because the options aren't good enough and that's not his fault. His transfer dealings have been excellent and we've made strides forward.

We're 1 game away from finishing 3rd with the chance to win a cup.

City won the league with Mancini and Pellegrini. If all the stars are alined you might win the league 3 times in a row. But you don’t need them to be all aligned to have a title challenge or win the league. It’s like we are trying to win the perfect league. Similar to that phrase the perfect goal.

Anyway we will be on a 30 year Barron run like that irraz lot if we keep making excuses to why we are behind. Especially with the evidence is so obvious.

 

[DRM]

It's a real concern.

However, when he's brought players off the bench they haven't exactly staked a claim. For the Norwich game, he gave Fred, McT, Lingard, Mata and Dalot a start and they didn't impress at all against the worst side in the league.

There is an argument he should have given Fred/McT more game-time, as they were flying before lock-down, but as every game was a must-win it doesn't seem like he could trust them unless we were a few goals up.

I get what you're saying but even with the bolded bit - Ole didnt exactly do that. He should've taken off Bruno around the 60th min mark when we've been 2 or 3 nil up.

I know most games were must wins, but rotating 1 player would not have caused us to lose momentum. For example playing Fred instead of Matic v 'bmouth and i'm sure we would've still ended up winning. The post lockdown period should've been all about near term game management, something Fergie was brilliant at. Ole has failed in that department and we can now only hope that doesnt cost us a top 4 position.