Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Mainoldo]

Allergic to facts and high standards are you pal?


So exactly nothing, as I expected. Good.

I'm not angry at all, but I'm especially not irrational. I only use facts and coherent arguments and logic. No conjecture, no lies about what happened etc. If anyone's irrational it's Ole fanboys like you who can't find absolutely nothing wrong with what people like me say but the fact it bothers you that not everyone is a puppet and can't 'feel' the difference.

Time will do it's thing, as always.


You'd struggle to find a single word of my mine that defends Jose. In fact, I said multiple times it's not about justifying Mourinho or regretting his sacking or whatever. I said he was rightly sacked in fact.

People did actually abuse him for his words, and they were actually right. I'm not saying anything about Jose here to shame anyone for saying it. I'm pointing to a time when our fanbase had standards and were right in calling him out and demanding more. That's my whole point.

I don't want Mourinho back, I don't condone any of his tantrums, but I'm also not delusional not to see that Ole is even worse than him. There's no 'may or may not' with Ole, he's already a failure with his results, but especially with his words.

Even if he does qualify for top 4, that's below us and that's not a success. There's a 15 year track record with Glazers spending significantly less when in CL than out of it. I have no reason to believe that won't continue based on everything that's come out of the club, in the media, or from Ole and Woodward. So even if it may seem as a success if we go top 4 this season (and in vacuum for a similar team it is) it's damaging for the long term future of the club when you take context and history in account.


Being upset that your favorite football club is being run as a nursery with no standards is now unhinged. OK. Whatever makes you feel better.

Didn't say he was sacked because he came 2nd. I said fans had standards then and rightfully demanded more than a second place. He was rightfully sacked.

Our turnover to wage ratio is among the lowest in the league. That's not enough and we should be spending more. Not on Lingard and the like, but on proven winners like Bruno and Pogba. The path we're currently on will exactly lead us to having more Lingards in the team because Ole's approval will excuse Glazers to spend less and promote more and more youngsters and soon you'll have Williams, Laird, Garner and the others on those same wages.

That's the thing, we're not moving in the right direction. Don't let the runs against weak opposition fool you. Transfers other than Bruno have been dreadful. Otherwise we wouldn't be in the position we are, we wouldn't break records in games without clean sheets after spending 150m on defenders etc. Other teams are having their worst seasons and we're still struggling to be better than them. Good transfers and the right direction don't pan out this way.

PS: I'm not including his games as caretaker because that's not the same job he has now. There were no expectations on him, players were trying to prove themselves to the new manager etc. As soon as he got the permanent job things went downhill. Bruno signing was a positive shock, soon that'll wear off and we'll be back where we were.

I don't think that. I think he knew the pressure was on him, he knew the squad wasn't as good as he was saying and he was willing to take the risk in order to save his job. A seasoned manager who demands more players and doesn't let his squad get this thin doesn't make that mistake.


Imagine trying to slide this in as proof of anything. Especially as a positive. I was gone almost 8 months and United are still in the same shit as before. But we're heading in the right direction riiight....

And no, the wins vs Spurs and City in December didn't have anything to do with my absence. We had a very bad January and I still wasn't here. But thanks for proving I'm consistent in my opinion and argumentation. Last year didn't sway me, this run didn't sway me and even if we qualify for CL it won't sway me for the reasons stated above. I've heard and seen enough from Ole to know he's bad for Manchester United.

We could lose tomorrow or win. We could qualify for CL or not. I may be here the whole time or come again in 10 months or whatever. None of that has anything to do with what we're talking about here. The fact you have nothing else to say in his favor but personal attempts on me only proves how thin your case for him is. Cheers.


Yes they are actual facts. I'm talking about his jobs as permanent manager in the Premier League. Ole has 50.8, Moyes 52.94.

I could care less about goals. We could be scoring 1 goal per game I wouldn't care if we were winning.


1. No he doesn't. Moyes has 52.94, Ole 50.8. Permanent managers, caretaker is irrelevant. Different jobs, different roles, different pressure and expectations. But even if we do take caretaker into account, being a couple percentage points above Moyes is still not a fecking positive. We're still talking about one of the worst ever, but that's supposed to be the man taking us in the right direction. Laughable.

2. Umm, yeah he is. As permanent manager of Cardiff, in EPL he has 16.67% which is the worst ever for Cardiff in EPL.

3. Phelan as permanent manager of Hull has a 15.00%, the worst ever for Hull in EPL. I got confused about the other job, that was in Australia, also a failure.

4. Five actually, but you're saying 2-3 as if it's a positive. One is too much. Dempsey, Clegg, Pert, Hartis and Leng. None of them were picked on their qualifications because they have none other than being Ole's buddies and ex-teammate(s). Others are Carrick, McKenna with no experience at this level and failed manager from Hull Phelan. He fired DDG's longtime coach for Hartis too.

Pick more please, can't wait.



Umm, no that's not how it works. United is a company that generates it's own money from sales, sponsorships, tv rights etc. Glazers haven't invested a cent of their own money into the club. But they did take more than 2 billion out. That's not how it should go.

He was 'good' then because he had the goat manager next to him ffs. He then went on to be the worst ever PL manager Hull ever had and failed in freaking Australian league. That's why he's not good enough.

I don't need to know every Cardiff manager ever. There are statistics that show Ole and Phelan hold the worst win % ever in PL for three clubs: Manchester United, Cardiff and Hull.

For the 100th time - you can't compare Ole with Pep, Klopp or SAF. Those managers earned the right to get time and patience. Ole has done nothing but failed for the past 7 years at every level. He doesn't get that chance, not at Manchester United.

Have some respect. He’s a club legend. He might not of had the start that managers like SAF, Pep or Klopp had but not every winner have luxurious starts look at Ranieri. It’s a process as LVG would say. You can’t deny players like Martial, Rashford and McTominay have improved under his management and under the mates club coaching staff.

So even though everything points to him being crap I’m backing him me. Don’t ask me why I’m just a romantic and imagine how good it would feel for Ole to win us back the title!

Stop moaning get behind your manager.

 

[Mainoldo]

Even if he failed to get us CL football I'd still keep. He has shown, in two occasions over sustained periods, that he has something about him. He gets the club and we are currently in a better state than we were when we had Mourinho.

However I'd hope that he brings someone else to help him tactically because I think we are still not good enough with the ball. Maybe it's a squad issue but we really don't have the ability to take and maintain control of a tight game, sometimes we find it difficult to close out tight games against decent opposition. I think our game in possession has to improve massively.

Instead of helping him how about we just employ a team that can do it. I think people need to start admitting they like Ole because his face fits.

If Paul Ince was the manager (His CV is pretty similar and obviously we know what he did going to the otherside) and had the same United management career as Ole right now. His head would be on a stick.

 

[The Boy]

Ole has done nothing but failed for the past 7 years at every level. He doesn't get that chance, not at Manchester United.

Well actually it looks like he clearly does as no one is sacking him any time soon regardless of what you write here.

 

[RashysTekkers]

Allergic to facts and high standards are you pal?


So exactly nothing, as I expected. Good.

I'm not angry at all, but I'm especially not irrational. I only use facts and coherent arguments and logic. No conjecture, no lies about what happened etc. If anyone's irrational it's Ole fanboys like you who can't find absolutely nothing wrong with what people like me say but the fact it bothers you that not everyone is a puppet and can't 'feel' the difference.

Time will do it's thing, as always.


You'd struggle to find a single word of my mine that defends Jose. In fact, I said multiple times it's not about justifying Mourinho or regretting his sacking or whatever. I said he was rightly sacked in fact.

People did actually abuse him for his words, and they were actually right. I'm not saying anything about Jose here to shame anyone for saying it. I'm pointing to a time when our fanbase had standards and were right in calling him out and demanding more. That's my whole point.

I don't want Mourinho back, I don't condone any of his tantrums, but I'm also not delusional not to see that Ole is even worse than him. There's no 'may or may not' with Ole, he's already a failure with his results, but especially with his words.

Even if he does qualify for top 4, that's below us and that's not a success. There's a 15 year track record with Glazers spending significantly less when in CL than out of it. I have no reason to believe that won't continue based on everything that's come out of the club, in the media, or from Ole and Woodward. So even if it may seem as a success if we go top 4 this season (and in vacuum for a similar team it is) it's damaging for the long term future of the club when you take context and history in account.


Being upset that your favorite football club is being run as a nursery with no standards is now unhinged. OK. Whatever makes you feel better.

Didn't say he was sacked because he came 2nd. I said fans had standards then and rightfully demanded more than a second place. He was rightfully sacked.

Our turnover to wage ratio is among the lowest in the league. That's not enough and we should be spending more. Not on Lingard and the like, but on proven winners like Bruno and Pogba. The path we're currently on will exactly lead us to having more Lingards in the team because Ole's approval will excuse Glazers to spend less and promote more and more youngsters and soon you'll have Williams, Laird, Garner and the others on those same wages.

That's the thing, we're not moving in the right direction. Don't let the runs against weak opposition fool you. Transfers other than Bruno have been dreadful. Otherwise we wouldn't be in the position we are, we wouldn't break records in games without clean sheets after spending 150m on defenders etc. Other teams are having their worst seasons and we're still struggling to be better than them. Good transfers and the right direction don't pan out this way.

PS: I'm not including his games as caretaker because that's not the same job he has now. There were no expectations on him, players were trying to prove themselves to the new manager etc. As soon as he got the permanent job things went downhill. Bruno signing was a positive shock, soon that'll wear off and we'll be back where we were.

I don't think that. I think he knew the pressure was on him, he knew the squad wasn't as good as he was saying and he was willing to take the risk in order to save his job. A seasoned manager who demands more players and doesn't let his squad get this thin doesn't make that mistake.


Imagine trying to slide this in as proof of anything. Especially as a positive. I was gone almost 8 months and United are still in the same shit as before. But we're heading in the right direction riiight....

And no, the wins vs Spurs and City in December didn't have anything to do with my absence. We had a very bad January and I still wasn't here. But thanks for proving I'm consistent in my opinion and argumentation. Last year didn't sway me, this run didn't sway me and even if we qualify for CL it won't sway me for the reasons stated above. I've heard and seen enough from Ole to know he's bad for Manchester United.

We could lose tomorrow or win. We could qualify for CL or not. I may be here the whole time or come again in 10 months or whatever. None of that has anything to do with what we're talking about here. The fact you have nothing else to say in his favor but personal attempts on me only proves how thin your case for him is. Cheers.


Yes they are actual facts. I'm talking about his jobs as permanent manager in the Premier League. Ole has 50.8, Moyes 52.94.

I could care less about goals. We could be scoring 1 goal per game I wouldn't care if we were winning.


1. No he doesn't. Moyes has 52.94, Ole 50.8. Permanent managers, caretaker is irrelevant. Different jobs, different roles, different pressure and expectations. But even if we do take caretaker into account, being a couple percentage points above Moyes is still not a fecking positive. We're still talking about one of the worst ever, but that's supposed to be the man taking us in the right direction. Laughable.

2. Umm, yeah he is. As permanent manager of Cardiff, in EPL he has 16.67% which is the worst ever for Cardiff in EPL.

3. Phelan as permanent manager of Hull has a 15.00%, the worst ever for Hull in EPL. I got confused about the other job, that was in Australia, also a failure.

4. Five actually, but you're saying 2-3 as if it's a positive. One is too much. Dempsey, Clegg, Pert, Hartis and Leng. None of them were picked on their qualifications because they have none other than being Ole's buddies and ex-teammate(s). Others are Carrick, McKenna with no experience at this level and failed manager from Hull Phelan. He fired DDG's longtime coach for Hartis too.

Pick more please, can't wait.



Umm, no that's not how it works. United is a company that generates it's own money from sales, sponsorships, tv rights etc. Glazers haven't invested a cent of their own money into the club. But they did take more than 2 billion out. That's not how it should go.

He was 'good' then because he had the goat manager next to him ffs. He then went on to be the worst ever PL manager Hull ever had and failed in freaking Australian league. That's why he's not good enough.

I don't need to know every Cardiff manager ever. There are statistics that show Ole and Phelan hold the worst win % ever in PL for three clubs: Manchester United, Cardiff and Hull.

For the 100th time - you can't compare Ole with Pep, Klopp or SAF. Those managers earned the right to get time and patience. Ole has done nothing but failed for the past 7 years at every level. He doesn't get that chance, not at Manchester United.

Wow. This is some peak LUHG stuff. Get a grip son, you're embarrassing.

 

[AneRu]

Instead of helping him how about we just employ a team that can do it. I think people need to start admitting they like Ole because his face fits.

If Paul Ince was the manager (His CV is pretty similar and obviously we know what he did going to the otherside) and had the same United management career as Ole right now. His head would be on a stick.

I think we have seen highs and lows during Ole's time here but I think we have seen enough to suggest that he is on the right track. The hierarchy seems to be sold on his project and we have done well in the second half of the season, I was staunchly 'Ole out' for a long period but you cant deny progress when it's there.

Every manager requires a strong backroom staff and I don't think ours is as strong. I suggested some of the weaknesses I am seeing in our game which can be rectified by Ole recruiting another coach. Sir Alex had high profile assistants, Guardiola has had Vilanova and Arteta whilst Klopp's long time assistant was also highly rated so it seems everyone needs help.

 

[anant]

1. No he doesn't. Moyes has 52.94, Ole 50.8. Permanent managers, caretaker is irrelevant. Different jobs, different roles, different pressure and expectations. But even if we do take caretaker into account, being a couple percentage points above Moyes is still not a fecking positive. We're still talking about one of the worst ever, but that's supposed to be the man taking us in the right direction. Laughable.

2. Umm, yeah he is. As permanent manager of Cardiff, in EPL he has 16.67% which is the worst ever for Cardiff in EPL.

3. Phelan as permanent manager of Hull has a 15.00%, the worst ever for Hull in EPL. I got confused about the other job, that was in Australia, also a failure.

4. Five actually, but you're saying 2-3 as if it's a positive. One is too much. Dempsey, Clegg, Pert, Hartis and Leng. None of them were picked on their qualifications because they have none other than being Ole's buddies and ex-teammate(s). Others are Carrick, McKenna with no experience at this level and failed manager from Hull Phelan. He fired DDG's longtime coach for Hartis too.

Why the feck is record as caretaker irrelevant? And as for the Cardiff bit, I'm comparing his record against managers who managed them in Championship- which should put Ole at a disadvantage.
Ditto for Phelan
Alvarez wasn't sacked, he literally gave an interview a few days ago confirming the same. Plus, Dave had declined a bit under Alvarez

Also, I do hope that you're banned soon

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Yes they are actual facts. I'm talking about his jobs as permanent manager in the Premier League. Ole has 50.8, Moyes 52.94.

No. Moyes had 50%. He won 17 out of 34 games. That's exactly 50%. I posted the actual facts in my original post. Please read it again, stop making stuff up, and go see a doctor.
At least stop acting like an absolute jacka** in this thread. Go jerk off in the Allegri thread or something instead.

 

[romufc]

Yes they are actual facts. I'm talking about his jobs as permanent manager in the Premier League. Ole has 50.8, Moyes 52.94.

Okay lets talk facts..

Moyes took over a title winning team - FACT
Ole took over a team in 6th - FACT

Moyes took over a team that had Rio, Vidic, Evra, DDG, Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Giggs etc.
Ole took over with Smalling, Lindelof, Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly, Fred, Rashford, Martial

Moyes spent £70m on Mata and Fellaini....

 

[midnightmare]

Allergic to facts and high standards are you pal?


So exactly nothing, as I expected. Good.

I'm not angry at all, but I'm especially not irrational. I only use facts and coherent arguments and logic. No conjecture, no lies about what happened etc. If anyone's irrational it's Ole fanboys like you who can't find absolutely nothing wrong with what people like me say but the fact it bothers you that not everyone is a puppet and can't 'feel' the difference.

Time will do it's thing, as always.


You'd struggle to find a single word of my mine that defends Jose. In fact, I said multiple times it's not about justifying Mourinho or regretting his sacking or whatever. I said he was rightly sacked in fact.

People did actually abuse him for his words, and they were actually right. I'm not saying anything about Jose here to shame anyone for saying it. I'm pointing to a time when our fanbase had standards and were right in calling him out and demanding more. That's my whole point.

I don't want Mourinho back, I don't condone any of his tantrums, but I'm also not delusional not to see that Ole is even worse than him. There's no 'may or may not' with Ole, he's already a failure with his results, but especially with his words.

Even if he does qualify for top 4, that's below us and that's not a success. There's a 15 year track record with Glazers spending significantly less when in CL than out of it. I have no reason to believe that won't continue based on everything that's come out of the club, in the media, or from Ole and Woodward. So even if it may seem as a success if we go top 4 this season (and in vacuum for a similar team it is) it's damaging for the long term future of the club when you take context and history in account.


Being upset that your favorite football club is being run as a nursery with no standards is now unhinged. OK. Whatever makes you feel better.

Didn't say he was sacked because he came 2nd. I said fans had standards then and rightfully demanded more than a second place. He was rightfully sacked.

Our turnover to wage ratio is among the lowest in the league. That's not enough and we should be spending more. Not on Lingard and the like, but on proven winners like Bruno and Pogba. The path we're currently on will exactly lead us to having more Lingards in the team because Ole's approval will excuse Glazers to spend less and promote more and more youngsters and soon you'll have Williams, Laird, Garner and the others on those same wages.

That's the thing, we're not moving in the right direction. Don't let the runs against weak opposition fool you. Transfers other than Bruno have been dreadful. Otherwise we wouldn't be in the position we are, we wouldn't break records in games without clean sheets after spending 150m on defenders etc. Other teams are having their worst seasons and we're still struggling to be better than them. Good transfers and the right direction don't pan out this way.

PS: I'm not including his games as caretaker because that's not the same job he has now. There were no expectations on him, players were trying to prove themselves to the new manager etc. As soon as he got the permanent job things went downhill. Bruno signing was a positive shock, soon that'll wear off and we'll be back where we were.

I don't think that. I think he knew the pressure was on him, he knew the squad wasn't as good as he was saying and he was willing to take the risk in order to save his job. A seasoned manager who demands more players and doesn't let his squad get this thin doesn't make that mistake.


Imagine trying to slide this in as proof of anything. Especially as a positive. I was gone almost 8 months and United are still in the same shit as before. But we're heading in the right direction riiight....

And no, the wins vs Spurs and City in December didn't have anything to do with my absence. We had a very bad January and I still wasn't here. But thanks for proving I'm consistent in my opinion and argumentation. Last year didn't sway me, this run didn't sway me and even if we qualify for CL it won't sway me for the reasons stated above. I've heard and seen enough from Ole to know he's bad for Manchester United.

We could lose tomorrow or win. We could qualify for CL or not. I may be here the whole time or come again in 10 months or whatever. None of that has anything to do with what we're talking about here. The fact you have nothing else to say in his favor but personal attempts on me only proves how thin your case for him is. Cheers.


Yes they are actual facts. I'm talking about his jobs as permanent manager in the Premier League. Ole has 50.8, Moyes 52.94.

I could care less about goals. We could be scoring 1 goal per game I wouldn't care if we were winning.


1. No he doesn't. Moyes has 52.94, Ole 50.8. Permanent managers, caretaker is irrelevant. Different jobs, different roles, different pressure and expectations. But even if we do take caretaker into account, being a couple percentage points above Moyes is still not a fecking positive. We're still talking about one of the worst ever, but that's supposed to be the man taking us in the right direction. Laughable.

2. Umm, yeah he is. As permanent manager of Cardiff, in EPL he has 16.67% which is the worst ever for Cardiff in EPL.

3. Phelan as permanent manager of Hull has a 15.00%, the worst ever for Hull in EPL. I got confused about the other job, that was in Australia, also a failure.

4. Five actually, but you're saying 2-3 as if it's a positive. One is too much. Dempsey, Clegg, Pert, Hartis and Leng. None of them were picked on their qualifications because they have none other than being Ole's buddies and ex-teammate(s). Others are Carrick, McKenna with no experience at this level and failed manager from Hull Phelan. He fired DDG's longtime coach for Hartis too.

Pick more please, can't wait.



Umm, no that's not how it works. United is a company that generates it's own money from sales, sponsorships, tv rights etc. Glazers haven't invested a cent of their own money into the club. But they did take more than 2 billion out. That's not how it should go.

He was 'good' then because he had the goat manager next to him ffs. He then went on to be the worst ever PL manager Hull ever had and failed in freaking Australian league. That's why he's not good enough.

I don't need to know every Cardiff manager ever. There are statistics that show Ole and Phelan hold the worst win % ever in PL for three clubs: Manchester United, Cardiff and Hull.

For the 100th time - you can't compare Ole with Pep, Klopp or SAF. Those managers earned the right to get time and patience. Ole has done nothing but failed for the past 7 years at every level. He doesn't get that chance, not at Manchester United.

I'm impressed. Really. Must take a load of effort and time to come up with this. You must manage your time very well.
Most of all though, I must admit that you handle logical arguments as exceptionally as de Gea handled Sarr's shot.

 

[Withnail]

Imagine trying to slide this in as proof of anything. Especially as a positive. I was gone almost 8 months and United are still in the same shit as before. But we're heading in the right direction riiight....

What it proves is that you've no interest in discussing anything to do with United on here when the team are performing well.

Its the very essence of agenda posting and why I'm not engaging with any of your fachts, especially as you're cherry picking the win rate and have admitted that for this team top 4 would be a success if it wasn't for Glazer reasons.

Maybe you're not angry or irrational but it definitely comes across that way.

Hopefully, we win the next two games and this thread can be closed.

 

[RollieOle]

My pint is his PL win rate will be less than 50% not acceptable in any year as a united Boss!

You dont get champions league football based on win percentage. Nonsense stat. Table position is all that matters.

 

[midnightmare]

My pint is his PL win rate will be less than 50% not acceptable in any year as a united Boss!

Interesting. So Jose should have been sacked after his first season when he managed a paltry 18 wins in 38 league games?
I didn't like Jose and I too would have been astonished if we'd sacked him arbitrarily for winning the EL and League Cup but being sacked for "not winning more than 50% of league games".

For the record, Ole could end up with 19 this season for a 50% record and add the EL and Top 4 to it - or he may fail on all those. Irrelevant to my mind.
We have to be more holistic than that.

 

[90 + 5min]

Umm, no that's not how it works. United is a company that generates it's own money from sales, sponsorships, tv rights etc. Glazers haven't invested a cent of their own money into the club. But they did take more than 2 billion out. That's not how it should go.

He was 'good' then because he had the goat manager next to him ffs. He then went on to be the worst ever PL manager Hull ever had and failed in freaking Australian league. That's why he's not good enough.

I don't need to know every Cardiff manager ever. There are statistics that show Ole and Phelan hold the worst win % ever in PL for three clubs: Manchester United, Cardiff and Hull.

For the 100th time - you can't compare Ole with Pep, Klopp or SAF. Those managers earned the right to get time and patience. Ole has done nothing but failed for the past 7 years at every level. He doesn't get that chance, not at Manchester United.

That is exactly how it works. Owners money. Even if ManUtd generate money through it's name from various places it is Glazers. You can talk about "own" money but the club owner decides where his money goes. If he wanted to invest 1% or 99% in the club, it is his choice. It is how this kind of ownership works. Than as I said, it is not perfect but it is reality. Best would be if the club was owned by fans or with 51%-rule some countries have. But it is not the case. And the soon you accept that we are owned the better.

You like words like standards and facts. To have high standards is not the same to not understanding where we are, have been and where we are going. Sometimes you got to take few steps back to go forward. And for your facts I see that you love to take out facts from its context that would back you. Meaning also you don't put all the facts on the table. Suddenly, it doesn't count if you are caretaker. As an example. Like if those months have been erased from football. What is next? We don't count some months? Maybe January? What about September? Do we just look at PL or all competitions? Do we look only at PL (as a name) or going back to Newton Heath era?

If you see the plan, if you can feel and see the progress then you deserve time. Solskjaer is no different to any of other managers. History is past. Now is now. Tell me what did Guardiola have for credentials to become Barcelona manager? Or Zidane to become Real Madrid manager? I am also pretty sure that Ferguson wouldn't be here for so long if you were owner. You don't remember who things went first 5-6 years?

And now to your question. Try to understand.
We had 6-7 years of total mess with recruiting right/wrong people. Changes every year meant no steady grund to work from and we fell from the top. We had a team that was unbalanced and when Mourinho left we were a club that lost our compass and nobody knew were it would end. We were in really, really bad condition. We took in someone who could steer this in right direction and as least brighten up this place. He did that and got permanent job. Now comes the work. Find right players for the team and develop the team. That takes time. It is a progress. Stop looking at points all the time. Look instead at progress of the team and club. Progress that is clear to see. I understand Solskjaer is not a fancy manager (for you as younger fan?) but he is doing very good work.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Allergic to facts and high standards are you pal?


So exactly nothing, as I expected. Good.

I'm not angry at all, but I'm especially not irrational. I only use facts and coherent arguments and logic. No conjecture, no lies about what happened etc. If anyone's irrational it's Ole fanboys like you who can't find absolutely nothing wrong with what people like me say but the fact it bothers you that not everyone is a puppet and can't 'feel' the difference.

Time will do it's thing, as always.


You'd struggle to find a single word of my mine that defends Jose. In fact, I said multiple times it's not about justifying Mourinho or regretting his sacking or whatever. I said he was rightly sacked in fact.

People did actually abuse him for his words, and they were actually right. I'm not saying anything about Jose here to shame anyone for saying it. I'm pointing to a time when our fanbase had standards and were right in calling him out and demanding more. That's my whole point.

I don't want Mourinho back, I don't condone any of his tantrums, but I'm also not delusional not to see that Ole is even worse than him. There's no 'may or may not' with Ole, he's already a failure with his results, but especially with his words.

Even if he does qualify for top 4, that's below us and that's not a success. There's a 15 year track record with Glazers spending significantly less when in CL than out of it. I have no reason to believe that won't continue based on everything that's come out of the club, in the media, or from Ole and Woodward. So even if it may seem as a success if we go top 4 this season (and in vacuum for a similar team it is) it's damaging for the long term future of the club when you take context and history in account.


Being upset that your favorite football club is being run as a nursery with no standards is now unhinged. OK. Whatever makes you feel better.

Didn't say he was sacked because he came 2nd. I said fans had standards then and rightfully demanded more than a second place. He was rightfully sacked.

Our turnover to wage ratio is among the lowest in the league. That's not enough and we should be spending more. Not on Lingard and the like, but on proven winners like Bruno and Pogba. The path we're currently on will exactly lead us to having more Lingards in the team because Ole's approval will excuse Glazers to spend less and promote more and more youngsters and soon you'll have Williams, Laird, Garner and the others on those same wages.

That's the thing, we're not moving in the right direction. Don't let the runs against weak opposition fool you. Transfers other than Bruno have been dreadful. Otherwise we wouldn't be in the position we are, we wouldn't break records in games without clean sheets after spending 150m on defenders etc. Other teams are having their worst seasons and we're still struggling to be better than them. Good transfers and the right direction don't pan out this way.

PS: I'm not including his games as caretaker because that's not the same job he has now. There were no expectations on him, players were trying to prove themselves to the new manager etc. As soon as he got the permanent job things went downhill. Bruno signing was a positive shock, soon that'll wear off and we'll be back where we were.

I don't think that. I think he knew the pressure was on him, he knew the squad wasn't as good as he was saying and he was willing to take the risk in order to save his job. A seasoned manager who demands more players and doesn't let his squad get this thin doesn't make that mistake.


Imagine trying to slide this in as proof of anything. Especially as a positive. I was gone almost 8 months and United are still in the same shit as before. But we're heading in the right direction riiight....

And no, the wins vs Spurs and City in December didn't have anything to do with my absence. We had a very bad January and I still wasn't here. But thanks for proving I'm consistent in my opinion and argumentation. Last year didn't sway me, this run didn't sway me and even if we qualify for CL it won't sway me for the reasons stated above. I've heard and seen enough from Ole to know he's bad for Manchester United.

We could lose tomorrow or win. We could qualify for CL or not. I may be here the whole time or come again in 10 months or whatever. None of that has anything to do with what we're talking about here. The fact you have nothing else to say in his favor but personal attempts on me only proves how thin your case for him is. Cheers.


Yes they are actual facts. I'm talking about his jobs as permanent manager in the Premier League. Ole has 50.8, Moyes 52.94.

I could care less about goals. We could be scoring 1 goal per game I wouldn't care if we were winning.


1. No he doesn't. Moyes has 52.94, Ole 50.8. Permanent managers, caretaker is irrelevant. Different jobs, different roles, different pressure and expectations. But even if we do take caretaker into account, being a couple percentage points above Moyes is still not a fecking positive. We're still talking about one of the worst ever, but that's supposed to be the man taking us in the right direction. Laughable.

2. Umm, yeah he is. As permanent manager of Cardiff, in EPL he has 16.67% which is the worst ever for Cardiff in EPL.

3. Phelan as permanent manager of Hull has a 15.00%, the worst ever for Hull in EPL. I got confused about the other job, that was in Australia, also a failure.

4. Five actually, but you're saying 2-3 as if it's a positive. One is too much. Dempsey, Clegg, Pert, Hartis and Leng. None of them were picked on their qualifications because they have none other than being Ole's buddies and ex-teammate(s). Others are Carrick, McKenna with no experience at this level and failed manager from Hull Phelan. He fired DDG's longtime coach for Hartis too.

Pick more please, can't wait.



Umm, no that's not how it works. United is a company that generates it's own money from sales, sponsorships, tv rights etc. Glazers haven't invested a cent of their own money into the club. But they did take more than 2 billion out. That's not how it should go.

He was 'good' then because he had the goat manager next to him ffs. He then went on to be the worst ever PL manager Hull ever had and failed in freaking Australian league. That's why he's not good enough.

I don't need to know every Cardiff manager ever. There are statistics that show Ole and Phelan hold the worst win % ever in PL for three clubs: Manchester United, Cardiff and Hull.

For the 100th time - you can't compare Ole with Pep, Klopp or SAF. Those managers earned the right to get time and patience. Ole has done nothing but failed for the past 7 years at every level. He doesn't get that chance, not at Manchester United.

I can't believe you wasted so much of your own time typing all this in the last couple of pages (which i barely skimmed, obv). That's not wumming, its crossed far beyond the line into some sort of weird obsession. All I can say is you know nothing about squad building, and sound like the typical armchair CEO you can easily find a dime a dozen on twitter.

 

[Mainoldo]

I can't believe you wasted so much of your own time typing all this in the last couple of pages (which i barely skimmed, obv). That's not wumming, its crossed far beyond the line into some sort of weird obsession. All I can say is you know nothing about squad building, and sound like the typical armchair CEO you can easily find a dime a dozen on twitter.

Come on. Give him a break nobody likes Top Red talk. If people want to study football other than just turning up to match games and getting drunk there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[ILC]

We really have MikeLuhg here,

Hope this helps.

But what you don't have is arguments or facts to refute anything I'm saying. What you do have are personal attacks and cheap jokes. I hope that helps because the truth is not going anywhere.

Have some respect. He’s a club legend. He might not of had the start that managers like SAF, Pep or Klopp had but not every winner have luxurious starts look at Ranieri. It’s a process as LVG would say. You can’t deny players like Martial, Rashford and McTominay have improved under his management and under the mates club coaching staff.

So even though everything points to him being crap I’m backing him me. Don’t ask me why I’m just a romantic and imagine how good it would feel for Ole to win us back the title!

Stop moaning get behind your manager.

I don't give two shits about Ole unless he's helping the club. Since the moment he came he's been doing the opposite so he needs to go. If he was such a legend he wouldn't call fans fake for protesting the Glazers, he wouldn't call the Glazers family, he wouldn't lie about their investment, he wouldn't accept a thin squad so Glazers can save money, he wouldn't call Glazers bad for United as a player but suck up to them now that he's the manager, he wouldn't talk about how top 4 is not good enough for United while at Molde, but the minute he comes here top 4 is all he talks about etc.

Rashford 'improved' by the way of penalty anomaly this season and Pogba being hurt in that time. His open play goal record didn't get much better. And yes, I know penalties are part of the game, but this many penalties isn't normal and won't happen again + being dependent on penalties isn't a good thing.

McTominay improved? How? We were in relegation battle while he was holding the midfield. The minute he got injured and Matić took over we improved by a landslide. He's not a good player.

Martial did improve, I'll give him that. Although I am still on the fence who helped who more.

In the end, that much improvement from individuals should help the team right? Why is it not then?

You're a clown and an utter embarrassment to human beings. Hope this helps.

Whatever helps you sleep.

Well actually it looks like he clearly does as no one is sacking him any time soon regardless of what you write here.

And that's not a positive for Manchester United regardless of how much you buy the bullshit he's selling.

Wow. This is some peak LUHG stuff. Get a grip son, you're embarrassing.

I'm sorry - is love United, hate Glazers 'mantra' supposed to be a negative around here? An insult? Isn't that what every United fan should be?

I don't understand why you people think being positive about anything and supporting whatever the flavor of the month is a sign of being a great fan and anyone who doesn't do it is an embarrassment? There's nothing positive about being positive ALL the time no matter what.

United isn't winning EPL titles and I'm here trolling just for the sake of it. We're literally experiencing some of the worst moments ever in the history of our club and the one who dares to point out the hypocrisy and lack of standards and bullshit of our 'legend' is embarrassing. Then I'm proud to be it thanks.

Why the feck is record as caretaker irrelevant? And as for the Cardiff bit, I'm comparing his record against managers who managed them in Championship- which should put Ole at a disadvantage.
Ditto for Phelan
Alvarez wasn't sacked, he literally gave an interview a few days ago confirming the same. Plus, Dave had declined a bit under Alvarez

Also, I do hope that you're banned soon

I literally explained in the next sentence why it's irrelevant. Or at least why it shouldn't be combined with the permanent role. It literally has a different name, different job completely - you're taking care of something until the next guy comes. You don't get to hire your own staff, you don't get to make decisions on signings etc. etc.

Why would I care about Championship? It's a lower league. But fine, let's talk about his time at Cardiff shall we? He took them (after they won the Championship comfortably the year before) in PL when they were out of relegation zone and won 18 points after 20 rounds, -17 GD. They finished dead last with 30 points and -42 GD. Then next season in Championship he left them in 17th place, they finished 11th after he left. Yay, you really got me on this one.

I didn't see that Alvarez interview. I apologize, I was wrong on the firing thing. Doesn't help that Ole still got an amateur to train our players though.

Also, Idc. My life won't be any worse or better either way. I come here once or twice to spend my post limit for the day and be on my way. I don't troll, I try to write good posts supported with good arguments and facts. If me being critical of the worst season in 30 years and the manager that oversaw it is somehow ban-worthy then so be it. Not aware that's the case though.

No. Moyes had 50%. He won 17 out of 34 games. That's exactly 50%. I posted the actual facts in my original post. Please read it again, stop making stuff up, and go see a doctor.
At least stop acting like an absolute jacka** in this thread. Go jerk off in the Allegri thread or something instead.

I have to apologize again here. I saw an article that had Moyes at 52.94, but after checking myself I see that was the wrong information. Let's celebrate Ole for being 0.8% better then. Yay.

Again with the personal attacks my God. Why does the constructive criticism of one of the worst managers ever and a horrible season we're having under his guidance bother you so much? Is this not a thread where we talk pros and cons of having Ole as a manager?

Also, no thanks. I jerk off to Allegri in a dark room with his greatest hits in the background.

Okay lets talk facts..

Moyes took over a title winning team - FACT
Ole took over a team in 6th - FACT

Moyes took over a team that had Rio, Vidic, Evra, DDG, Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Giggs etc.
Ole took over with Smalling, Lindelof, Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly, Fred, Rashford, Martial

Moyes spent £70m on Mata and Fellaini....

Okay, let's...

Moyes took over a title winning team - FACT
Ole took over a team in 6th - ehhh...not really. He did take over the team when they were 6th but the season was far from over. That team finished 2nd in the last full season before that.
We were in an even worse position at the same point this season - FACT

Oh, I'm not defending Moyes at all. One of the worst managers ever anywhere, not just at United. Ole being basically even with him is not something to brag though. 50% win rate is baaaad, very bad unless you're Crystal Palace or something. Are we Crystal Palace?

Also, let's talk some more facts..

Did Ole or did he not get rid of Mourinho's 'deadwood'?
Did Ole or did he not have great recruitment this season?
Did Ole or did he not cultivate an amazing dressing room atmosphere?

And finally, if your answer to those is 'yes', how is it possible we're having such a poor season overall?

I'm impressed. Really. Must take a load of effort and time to come up with this. You must manage your time very well.
Most of all though, I must admit that you handle logical arguments as exceptionally as de Gea handled Sarr's shot.

It doesn't take a lot of time at all really because I don't come up with anything. This is all factual and, most importantly, publicly available information to anyone. Only those who don't want to don't see it.

What it proves is that you've no interest in discussing anything to do with United on here when the team are performing well.

Its the very essence of agenda posting and why I'm not engaging with any of your fachts, especially as you're cherry picking the win rate and have admitted that for this team top 4 would be a success if it wasn't for Glazer reasons.

Maybe you're not angry or irrational but it definitely comes across that way.

Hopefully, we win the next two games and this thread can be closed.

And when would that be that the team was performing 'well'? I 'left' two months before the team started doing 'well'. A little purple patch in a terrible season is not doing well. Unfortunately for Ole fanboys it's not possible to dissect the season and cherry pick which patches of form are taken into account. Every team has to play 38 games and the overall season counts no matter what Ole fanboys would let you believe.

1. I'm not cherry picking anything. It's public knowledge that caretaker and permanent manager are two completely different jobs.
2. What makes it even worse is you think a couple percentage points from the caretaker period somehow makes Ole's job here better
3. Yes, for a team with normal owners who want to invest money, who want to spend money, who want to win and have ambition - CL qualification would be a positive yes. For the leeches that own our club though it isn't good because there's 15 years of evidence of them spending significantly less when in CL. Common sense really. If it was the other way around I would root for CL too.

If that's what's going to be the best for Man Utd then I hope for the exact same thing.

That is exactly how it works. Owners money. Even if ManUtd generate money through it's name from various places it is Glazers. You can talk about "own" money but the club owner decides where his money goes. If he wanted to invest 1% or 99% in the club, it is his choice. It is how this kind of ownership works. Than as I said, it is not perfect but it is reality. Best would be if the club was owned by fans or with 51%-rule some countries have. But it is not the case. And the soon you accept that we are owned the better.

You like words like standards and facts. To have high standards is not the same to not understanding where we are, have been and where we are going. Sometimes you got to take few steps back to go forward. And for your facts I see that you love to take out facts from its context that would back you. Meaning also you don't put all the facts on the table. Suddenly, it doesn't count if you are caretaker. As an example. Like if those months have been erased from football. What is next? We don't count some months? Maybe January? What about September? Do we just look at PL or all competitions? Do we look only at PL (as a name) or going back to Newton Heath era?

If you see the plan, if you can feel and see the progress then you deserve time. Solskjaer is no different to any of other managers. History is past. Now is now. Tell me what did Guardiola have for credentials to become Barcelona manager? Or Zidane to become Real Madrid manager? I am also pretty sure that Ferguson wouldn't be here for so long if you were owner. You don't remember who things went first 5-6 years?

And now to your question. Try to understand.
We had 6-7 years of total mess with recruiting right/wrong people. Changes every year meant no steady grund to work from and we fell from the top. We had a team that was unbalanced and when Mourinho left we were a club that lost our compass and nobody knew were it would end. We were in really, really bad condition. We took in someone who could steer this in right direction and as least brighten up this place. He did that and got permanent job. Now comes the work. Find right players for the team and develop the team. That takes time. It is a progress. Stop looking at points all the time. Look instead at progress of the team and club. Progress that is clear to see. I understand Solskjaer is not a fancy manager (for you as younger fan?) but he is doing very good work.

I'm sorry mate - you have no clue what you're talking about. Company money and personal money are two different things. United doesn't dominate the sponsorships and marketing because it's owned by the Glazers. United dominates it because it's a global brand. We'd earn the same money, and even more, without the Glazers. They literally took billions out of the club, that's not how it works. End of.

Where have we been is in a bad state with Mourinho. Then we got a club 'legend' who improved recruitment and got rid of bad players from Mourinho's team. Now we're even worse. It's quite obvious where we're going.

I explained a 100 times why caretaker is different, not gonna go over it again.

1. I don't see a plan and certainly don't see or feel the progress.
2. Solskjaer is very different to managers you keep bringing on. He's a failure, they weren't.
3. Neither Pep or Zidane had more credentials than Ole when they became managers. But they brought instant results and proved themselves right away. Ole failed that very small part.
4. 40 years ago a man who would become the goat manager succeeded in completely different times, so this failed Cardiff manager must be on the same path.

Ole is literally two rounds from finishing the worst season in 30 years. End of. There's no good work there, there's no progress.

I can't believe you wasted so much of your own time typing all this in the last couple of pages (which i barely skimmed, obv). That's not wumming, its crossed far beyond the line into some sort of weird obsession. All I can say is you know nothing about squad building, and sound like the typical armchair CEO you can easily find a dime a dozen on twitter.

I can't believe you obv don't care and obv barely skimmed something, but know without a doubt the whole content of it and can successfully 'diagnose' it and took time to respond to it (even though you obv don't care). You're either a genius or a blind sheep who can't think for itself so just follows where the wind takes it. Kudos either way.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Well actually it looks like he clearly does as no one is sacking him any time soon regardless of what you write here.

If he got sacked by Cardiff who saw nothing in him I’m sure we could sack him

 

[roonster09]

But what you don't have is arguments or facts to refute anything I'm saying. What you do have are personal attacks and cheap jokes. I hope that helps because the truth is not going anywhere.

Others have already done it, no need to repeat the same posts again and again, also your facts are just fachts.

 

[RashysTekkers]

If he got sacked by Cardiff who saw nothing in him I’m sure we could sack him

I'm sure Woodward is drafting a dismissal letter as we speak.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

ILC- you’re wasting your time trying to state the obvious that Ole isn’t good enough & we’re just wasting our time with him.

‘Top reds’ think it’s far better to ignore all the evidence in front of us & that Ole will just suddenly not be Shite at tactics & in game management I guess, who knows their thinking, but I wouldn’t debate them as they’re far too gone to be rational

 

[romufc]

Okay, let's...

Moyes took over a title winning team - FACT
Ole took over a team in 6th - ehhh...not really. He did take over the team when they were 6th but the season was far from over. That team finished 2nd in the last full season before that.
We were in an even worse position at the same point this season - FACT

Oh, I'm not defending Moyes at all. One of the worst managers ever anywhere, not just at United. Ole being basically even with him is not something to brag though. 50% win rate is baaaad, very bad unless you're Crystal Palace or something. Are we Crystal Palace?

Also, let's talk some more facts..

Did Ole or did he not get rid of Mourinho's 'deadwood'?
Did Ole or did he not have great recruitment this season?
Did Ole or did he not cultivate an amazing dressing room atmosphere?

And finally, if your answer to those is 'yes', how is it possible we're having such a poor season overall?

We are talking about when he took over the team, which was in December so half a season was played. 6th. end of.

Have you ever heard of rebuild in your life?

When you renovate your house, do you buy new furniture first then ?

No, you get rid of evrything you do not want first. It doesn't happen over night.

We have a board that will not let us do it in one window either, so you have to take a realistic approach. This season was never one for us to win the league, if we get top 4, we have achieved what we set out to do this season.

1. Get rid of deadwoods - he has done 50%, more still to go.
2. First team signings - We have recruited well, some would say we over paid but hey, we have overpaid before and it hasnt worked out. It has worked out because our defence is better.
3. Atmosphere - even when we were losing and having a hard time, the players played for the manager, that should tell you something about how the players feel about Ole.
4. Improvement of players - Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, Martial, Rashford have all improved under Ole
5. Integrating youth - Ole has done that, Greenwood, Williams and even the likes of Garner, Mengi, Chong are all slowly being integrated.

These things cannot happen overnight.

Whether Ole is the man to take us to the title or not, I do not know, neither do you.

However; do I think there is a manager who can take us to the title? No, there isnt.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Ole is literally two rounds from finishing the worst season in 30 years. End of. There's no good work there, there's no progress.

"Facts"

 

[mu4c_20le]

If he got sacked by Cardiff who saw nothing in him I’m sure we could sack him

Because we should totally model our decisions based on Cardiff FC

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Because we should totally model our decisions based on Cardiff FC

I didn’t say that. Someone flippantly said ‘oh we’ll never sack Ole’ , well I’m just saying the mighty Cardiff thought he wasn’t good enough for them

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

ILC- you’re wasting your time trying to state the obvious that Ole isn’t good enough & we’re just wasting our time with him.

‘Top reds’ think it’s far better to ignore all the evidence in front of us & that Ole will just suddenly not be Shite at tactics & in game management I guess, who knows their thinking, but I wouldn’t debate them as they’re far too gone to be rational

The evidence shows De Gea made mistakes that cost Ole points in at least 4 league games.

Evidence shows Ole had to make do without not 1, not 2, but 3 of his best players for months at the start of the season.

Evidence shows the squad players recruited by previous regimes just aren't good enough. (Which Ole is trying to rectify)

Evidence shows Ole has a superb record against the big six and the style of football has improved immeasurably.

Your lot are all glory hunters, no gratitude or understanding of a club legend and the step by step process he is overseeing, which is starting to work wonders. Go support Liverpool.

 

[rotherham_red]

ILC- you’re wasting your time trying to state the obvious that Ole isn’t good enough & we’re just wasting our time with him.

‘Top reds’ think it’s far better to ignore all the evidence in front of us & that Ole will just suddenly not be Shite at tactics & in game management I guess, who knows their thinking, but I wouldn’t debate them as they’re far too gone to be rational

Hmm so much for all the talk last week of "I hope Ole pulls through", and "I'm only being rational"... One bad result after almost half a season of consistently good results and performances, and you're already hopped on to your soapbox. Pathetic.

 

[Kag]

But what you don't have is arguments or facts to refute anything I'm saying. What you do have are personal attacks and cheap jokes. I hope that helps because the truth is not going anywhere.


I don't give two shits about Ole unless he's helping the club. Since the moment he came he's been doing the opposite so he needs to go. If he was such a legend he wouldn't call fans fake for protesting the Glazers, he wouldn't call the Glazers family, he wouldn't lie about their investment, he wouldn't accept a thin squad so Glazers can save money, he wouldn't call Glazers bad for United as a player but suck up to them now that he's the manager, he wouldn't talk about how top 4 is not good enough for United while at Molde, but the minute he comes here top 4 is all he talks about etc.

Rashford 'improved' by the way of penalty anomaly this season and Pogba being hurt in that time. His open play goal record didn't get much better. And yes, I know penalties are part of the game, but this many penalties isn't normal and won't happen again + being dependent on penalties isn't a good thing.

McTominay improved? How? We were in relegation battle while he was holding the midfield. The minute he got injured and Matić took over we improved by a landslide. He's not a good player.

Martial did improve, I'll give him that. Although I am still on the fence who helped who more.

In the end, that much improvement from individuals should help the team right? Why is it not then?


Whatever helps you sleep.


And that's not a positive for Manchester United regardless of how much you buy the bullshit he's selling.


I'm sorry - is love United, hate Glazers 'mantra' supposed to be a negative around here? An insult? Isn't that what every United fan should be?

I don't understand why you people think being positive about anything and supporting whatever the flavor of the month is a sign of being a great fan and anyone who doesn't do it is an embarrassment? There's nothing positive about being positive ALL the time no matter what.

United isn't winning EPL titles and I'm here trolling just for the sake of it. We're literally experiencing some of the worst moments ever in the history of our club and the one who dares to point out the hypocrisy and lack of standards and bullshit of our 'legend' is embarrassing. Then I'm proud to be it thanks.



I literally explained in the next sentence why it's irrelevant. Or at least why it shouldn't be combined with the permanent role. It literally has a different name, different job completely - you're taking care of something until the next guy comes. You don't get to hire your own staff, you don't get to make decisions on signings etc. etc.

Why would I care about Championship? It's a lower league. But fine, let's talk about his time at Cardiff shall we? He took them (after they won the Championship comfortably the year before) in PL when they were out of relegation zone and won 18 points after 20 rounds, -17 GD. They finished dead last with 30 points and -42 GD. Then next season in Championship he left them in 17th place, they finished 11th after he left. Yay, you really got me on this one.

I didn't see that Alvarez interview. I apologize, I was wrong on the firing thing. Doesn't help that Ole still got an amateur to train our players though.

Also, Idc. My life won't be any worse or better either way. I come here once or twice to spend my post limit for the day and be on my way. I don't troll, I try to write good posts supported with good arguments and facts. If me being critical of the worst season in 30 years and the manager that oversaw it is somehow ban-worthy then so be it. Not aware that's the case though.


I have to apologize again here. I saw an article that had Moyes at 52.94, but after checking myself I see that was the wrong information. Let's celebrate Ole for being 0.8% better then. Yay.

Again with the personal attacks my God. Why does the constructive criticism of one of the worst managers ever and a horrible season we're having under his guidance bother you so much? Is this not a thread where we talk pros and cons of having Ole as a manager?

Also, no thanks. I jerk off to Allegri in a dark room with his greatest hits in the background.


Okay, let's...

Moyes took over a title winning team - FACT
Ole took over a team in 6th - ehhh...not really. He did take over the team when they were 6th but the season was far from over. That team finished 2nd in the last full season before that.
We were in an even worse position at the same point this season - FACT

Oh, I'm not defending Moyes at all. One of the worst managers ever anywhere, not just at United. Ole being basically even with him is not something to brag though. 50% win rate is baaaad, very bad unless you're Crystal Palace or something. Are we Crystal Palace?

Also, let's talk some more facts..

Did Ole or did he not get rid of Mourinho's 'deadwood'?
Did Ole or did he not have great recruitment this season?
Did Ole or did he not cultivate an amazing dressing room atmosphere?

And finally, if your answer to those is 'yes', how is it possible we're having such a poor season overall?


It doesn't take a lot of time at all really because I don't come up with anything. This is all factual and, most importantly, publicly available information to anyone. Only those who don't want to don't see it.


And when would that be that the team was performing 'well'? I 'left' two months before the team started doing 'well'. A little purple patch in a terrible season is not doing well. Unfortunately for Ole fanboys it's not possible to dissect the season and cherry pick which patches of form are taken into account. Every team has to play 38 games and the overall season counts no matter what Ole fanboys would let you believe.

1. I'm not cherry picking anything. It's public knowledge that caretaker and permanent manager are two completely different jobs.
2. What makes it even worse is you think a couple percentage points from the caretaker period somehow makes Ole's job here better
3. Yes, for a team with normal owners who want to invest money, who want to spend money, who want to win and have ambition - CL qualification would be a positive yes. For the leeches that own our club though it isn't good because there's 15 years of evidence of them spending significantly less when in CL. Common sense really. If it was the other way around I would root for CL too.

If that's what's going to be the best for Man Utd then I hope for the exact same thing.


I'm sorry mate - you have no clue what you're talking about. Company money and personal money are two different things. United doesn't dominate the sponsorships and marketing because it's owned by the Glazers. United dominates it because it's a global brand. We'd earn the same money, and even more, without the Glazers. They literally took billions out of the club, that's not how it works. End of.

Where have we been is in a bad state with Mourinho. Then we got a club 'legend' who improved recruitment and got rid of bad players from Mourinho's team. Now we're even worse. It's quite obvious where we're going.

I explained a 100 times why caretaker is different, not gonna go over it again.

1. I don't see a plan and certainly don't see or feel the progress.
2. Solskjaer is very different to managers you keep bringing on. He's a failure, they weren't.
3. Neither Pep or Zidane had more credentials than Ole when they became managers. But they brought instant results and proved themselves right away. Ole failed that very small part.
4. 40 years ago a man who would become the goat manager succeeded in completely different times, so this failed Cardiff manager must be on the same path.

Ole is literally two rounds from finishing the worst season in 30 years. End of. There's no good work there, there's no progress.


I can't believe you obv don't care and obv barely skimmed something, but know without a doubt the whole content of it and can successfully 'diagnose' it and took time to respond to it (even though you obv don't care). You're either a genius or a blind sheep who can't think for itself so just follows where the wind takes it. Kudos either way.

You clearly spent a little while manufacturing this post, so I take a small, almost pathetic amount of pride in telling you that it is a dirty, steaming, smelly load of shite. Oh to be wrong.

 

[padzilla]

I am not the biggest fan of Ole's time as manager here, in fact I have been a fairly vocal critic, but it's clear he has a plan and the conditions he has worked under, in terms of needing to overhaul the squad, suggests he deserves more time. That has been reinforced by recent results since Bruno signed. It is the first time since Fergie left that we've looked like a team capable of playing quality attacking football on a regular basis. Yes, we are a few players short of being considered a credible threat to the likes of Liverpool and City, but if nothing else he has bought himself more time. The criticism of him will go through the roof if we fail to reach the top four given our current position, and rightly so, but I can't see Woodward replacing him anytime soon given how he stood by him during dire results and performances.

 

[Red Company]

The evidence shows De Gea made mistakes that cost Ole points in at least 4 league games.

Evidence shows Ole had to make do without not 1, not 2, but 3 of his best players for months at the start of the season.

Evidence shows the squad players recruited by previous regimes just aren't good enough. (Which Ole is trying to rectify)

Evidence shows Ole has a superb record against the big six and the style of football has improved immeasurably.

Your lot are all glory hunters, no gratitude or understanding of a club legend and the step by step process he is overseeing, which is starting to work wonders. Go support Liverpool.

Great post.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't give two shits about Ole unless he's helping the club. Since the moment he came he's been doing the opposite so he needs to go. If he was such a legend he wouldn't call fans fake for protesting the Glazers, he wouldn't call the Glazers family, he wouldn't lie about their investment, he wouldn't accept a thin squad so Glazers can save money, he wouldn't call Glazers bad for United as a player but suck up to them now that he's the manager, he wouldn't talk about how top 4 is not good enough for United while at Molde, but the minute he comes here top 4 is all he talks about etc.

Rashford 'improved' by the way of penalty anomaly this season and Pogba being hurt in that time. His open play goal record didn't get much better. And yes, I know penalties are part of the game, but this many penalties isn't normal and won't happen again + being dependent on penalties isn't a good thing.

McTominay improved? How? We were in relegation battle while he was holding the midfield. The minute he got injured and Matić took over we improved by a landslide. He's not a good player.

Martial did improve, I'll give him that. Although I am still on the fence who helped who more.

In the end, that much improvement from individuals should help the team right? Why is it not then?

Pay me no mind. I just wanted to feel like I was with the majority for once as I knew you’d be getting slandered. I wanted to jump on board

Martial did extend Mourinho’s time in charge even though he hated him. So I don’t think he’s improved but I do credit Ole for actually believing in him. Which is what he’s always needed.

 

[AshRK]

Instead of helping him how about we just employ a team that can do it. I think people need to start admitting they like Ole because his face fits.

If Paul Ince was the manager (His CV is pretty similar and obviously we know what he did going to the otherside) and had the same United management career as Ole right now. His head would be on a stick.

You are really embarrassing yourself here. Ole is not being blindly backed here, just because people are not criticizing him like that newbie or you doesn't mean he is backed or because his face fits. Sacking right now is not an option and we fans (at least most) are waiting to see how we do in these 2 games.

 

[Withnail]

ILC- you’re wasting your time trying to state the obvious that Ole isn’t good enough & we’re just wasting our time with him.

‘Top reds’ think it’s far better to ignore all the evidence in front of us & that Ole will just suddenly not be Shite at tactics & in game management I guess, who knows their thinking, but I wouldn’t debate them as they’re far too gone to be rational

Back from little break straight into it I see

 

[Withnail]

Pay me no mind. I just wanted to feel like I was with the majority for once as I knew you’d be getting slandered. I wanted to jump on board

Martial did extend Mourinho’s time in charge even though he hated him. So I don’t think he’s improved but I do credit Ole for actually believing in him. Which is what he’s always needed.

Objectively, Martial has improved his goals per minute but he's been improving every year for 3 seasons now. He certainly does seem more motivated these days though.

 

[glazed]

People are getting quite hett up about what should happen which is all personal opinion. What will happen is that Woodward might sack Ole if he fails to secure Champions League, but he probably won't because it doesn't suite him to do so, and there isn't any pressure from the match day fans to do so - because there are no match day fans, and even if there were they'd most likely still be backing him. What internet fans say or think is less than a fart in the wind.

 

[rotherham_red]

Back from little break straight into it I see

He's beyond pathetic... Remember how he tried to gaslight everyone last week, and now we see this

 

[Withnail]

He's beyond pathetic... Remember how he tried to gaslight everyone last week, and now we see this

That poster always claims to be rational when challenged, then flip-flops to back up a rabid Ole outer.

 

[Red Company]

3. Neither Pep or Zidane had more credentials than Ole when they became managers. But they brought instant results and proved themselves right away. Ole failed that very small part.

Don’t you think Ole might have failed to bring instant results due to the lack of squad depth and quality available to him (unlike what Pep or Zidane had to deal with)?

Also, you mentioned Glazers in a very negative tone and while I agree they could’ve done better, they have spent close to £1bn since SAF left on player acquisitions. It’s not entirely their fault that the investment didn’t yield results?

And while they have taken out money, it is in their right to do so since they spent that money to buy our club as well. Obviously they’d want a return on their investment in some form, at some point?

ILC- you’re wasting your time trying to state the obvious that Ole isn’t good enough & we’re just wasting our time with him.

‘Top reds’ think it’s far better to ignore all the evidence in front of us & that Ole will just suddenly not be Shite at tactics & in game management I guess, who knows their thinking, but I wouldn’t debate them as they’re far too gone to be rational

In all humbleness, we’re all ‘Reds’ to begin with. Whose top and whose not, I’m no one to say. But it’s you who is referring to some as ‘Top’ so firstly, you need to avoid that term because you are making yourself seem less significant and secondly, it’s also wrong to state that some of us might be acting ‘ignorant’ because just like you, we have our reasons to assume or believe that our analogy of how things are going might be calculatedly right as well. I.e: we can trust Ole during this rebuilding process.

All of us are on here to debate and discuss and there is no need to create partitions by using words like ‘top’ or ‘ignorant’ to differentiate between ourselves.

Nobody has ever come out and strictly said to you that Ole is perfect at tactics or in game management. Most of us and Ole himself believe there is obvious room for improvement but we feel confident enough that he is showing potential to improve.

 

[Mainoldo]

You are really embarrassing yourself here. Ole is not being blindly backed here, just because people are not criticizing him like that newbie or you doesn't mean he is backed or because his face fits. Sacking right now is not an option and we fans (at least most) are waiting to see how we do in these 2 games.

I’m always embarrassing myself apparently. I was always embarrassing myself with Mourinho and Moyes too.

What you say sounds good. But let’s be honest if he lost the next two games would still back him because you’d find something just worthy in the game to have hope. This is how it works and will continue until he either gets sacked or hopefully becomes a better manager.

 

[Withnail]

People are getting quite hett up about what should happen which is all personal opinion. What will happen is that Woodward might sack Ole if he fails to secure Champions League, but he probably won't because it doesn't suite him to do so, and there isn't any pressure from the match day fans to do so - because there are no match day fans, and even if there were they'd most likely still be backing him. What internet fans say or think is less than a fart in the wind.

Well that's exactly it. Along with the fact that we are straight into transfer window the day after the season ends, swiftly followed by the Europa and next season hot on it's heels, it would be absolute madness to get a new manager in unless something catastrophic happened.

 

[Mainoldo]

Objectively, Martial has improved his goals per minute but he's been improving every year for 3 seasons now. He certainly does seem more motivated these days though.

Yeah I’d say so. Ole being a good striker himself has also helped him I think. He’s hardly going to listen to his advise and be like who are you to tell me. I’m sure Ole can still ping one in bottom corner blindfolded. If ever questioned.