God have mercy on him if we don't beat West Ham today.
This place is going to go crazy.
This place is going to go crazy.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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It's highly unlikely Ole will get the sack now given the progress he and the team have made this season, with or without top-four.
He's done more than enough to warrant another season in charge.
Same can be said about people like you that you keep on changing your goal post as you have an agenda against Ole. When will you start changing your opinion or you will just pop here every time we lose and shout see I told you I was right. It seems for you being proven right is more important than Ole doing well.
Like I said if we are in a similar situation come next season then I will question him even more and may even think in your lines but I cannot just bash him because he doesn't have a great CV. To be fair he has done a good job considering the CV he has. So who knows he may keep surprising people and do even better.
But you’ve just proved you’d do exactly what I said you would. Then said I move the goal post?
Originally you said people are holding out for these last two games. I took that as you included? You then said your looking out for if he still performs like this next season? So you’ve already accepted in your mind the last two games don’t matter.
Be honest, if José/LVG or anyone had put in that semi final performance you’d have serious questions I hope. We were embarrassing.
Even if we get to 4th it’s with a very low points total- but if we do get there then yes he’ll probably get another season but I don’t think he’s good enough.
How can you rabid Ole in lot defend & think it’s abhorrent to even question his position? It absolutely should be talked about but you’re so far gone & Ole no matter what you can’t see it
I never said last 2 games didn't matter. If we lose or miss out on top 4 my doubts in Ole will rise and I would be on fence with him. But if we win and reach top 4, my expectations from him next season will also increase and I will not be pretending to be happy if we are in the same situation fighting for 4th spot without much improvement next season. Did you see the difference?
I don't know how that progress even exists without getting top four. I mean it's going to sound a bit ridiculous saying "but he improved this or that player, brought in Bruno in January ect" but he couldn't get us over the line when top four was handed to us on a silver plate. That doesn't sound like progress from our last few seasons at all.
I'm not rabid Ole in. I think he deserves more time and I'm enjoying watching the team more than I have done in years.
That's my position.
I'm not claiming he's the second coming when we win and I'm not claiming he or anyone else is a clown when we lose.
EDIT: In relation to LVG/Jose it would depend on the circumstances surrounding it. I'm also not too bothered about the FA Cup at the moment. The current run of games is punishing and we have bigger fish to fry.
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If we qualify for the CL,then Ole would have certainly met the target that was set for him at the start of the season,so he certainly deserves to be here next season.Back in August,a lot of supporters felt that we had no chance of finishing in the top 4,so obviously we”ve improved a lot over the course of the season.But like some how pointed out,our expectations should be higher next season and Ole will be expected to close the gap with City and Liverpool,but for now,his job is certainly safe...
Not if they had to make the same decision Ole had to make: progressing to the FA Cup final by playing his best team (the same team that beat Chelsea 3 times in the season) or resting five of them to keep them fit for the league. He went with the latter due to priorities.
I see the difference but I see no change in your thinking. If we don’t make it you’ll rely on the Europa to give him grace to save his job and you’ll excuse his inability to get us over the line on the frailties of the squad and that we are still progressing in our rebuild.
Basically what I’m saying is you’ve already given him another year regardless. How you judge him at the end of next season is fine. You might be impressed you might not be. But what I’m getting at is your criticising people for justified doubts in him because you’ve already decided he deserves another year no matter what.
Can't let that pass.
The accusation against the Glazers is not that they didn't spend money. The accusation is that (a) they financed the purchase of the club by debt which the club was obliged to pay off, and so didn't spend enough money to compete with Chelsea and then City. And (b) they structured the club around commercial revenue maximisation which led to bad football decisions and infrastructures, meaning the money they did spend was badly spent, and the top football people wouldn't work for them.
United will never be a world leading club on the field while the Glazers own the club.
Don’t you have to judge things relatively though. The majority thought we wouldn’t make top 4 because Spurs and Arsenal would occupy them. But........
Who did he rest? Matic who’s legs need protecting anyway; the non cup keeper De Gea; Slabber man out who has played literally every minute this season and Marcus broke back Rashford started the game.
Obviously we couldn’t drop all of them. But yet again those that actually needed preserving was suspect.
It’s showing with our continuous poor footballing decisions. God help us.
I mean, it won't look good if we miss out on top-four given the situation we're in right now, but Woodward will surely look past that given how good we've looked since January.
Ole's made very good signings on the whole, has the team playing attacking football, has promoted youth on the regular throughout the season, brought the best out of a number of players this year, and has us fighting for top-four, got us to the FA Cup semis, and competing for the EL.
What's not to like?
But what you don't have is arguments or facts to refute anything I'm saying. What you do have are personal attacks and cheap jokes. I hope that helps because the truth is not going anywhere.
I don't give two shits about Ole unless he's helping the club. Since the moment he came he's been doing the opposite so he needs to go. If he was such a legend he wouldn't call fans fake for protesting the Glazers, he wouldn't call the Glazers family, he wouldn't lie about their investment, he wouldn't accept a thin squad so Glazers can save money, he wouldn't call Glazers bad for United as a player but suck up to them now that he's the manager, he wouldn't talk about how top 4 is not good enough for United while at Molde, but the minute he comes here top 4 is all he talks about etc.
Rashford 'improved' by the way of penalty anomaly this season and Pogba being hurt in that time. His open play goal record didn't get much better. And yes, I know penalties are part of the game, but this many penalties isn't normal and won't happen again + being dependent on penalties isn't a good thing.
McTominay improved? How? We were in relegation battle while he was holding the midfield. The minute he got injured and Matić took over we improved by a landslide. He's not a good player.
Martial did improve, I'll give him that. Although I am still on the fence who helped who more.
In the end, that much improvement from individuals should help the team right? Why is it not then?
Whatever helps you sleep.
And that's not a positive for Manchester United regardless of how much you buy the bullshit he's selling.
I'm sorry - is love United, hate Glazers 'mantra' supposed to be a negative around here? An insult? Isn't that what every United fan should be?
I don't understand why you people think being positive about anything and supporting whatever the flavor of the month is a sign of being a great fan and anyone who doesn't do it is an embarrassment? There's nothing positive about being positive ALL the time no matter what.
United isn't winning EPL titles and I'm here trolling just for the sake of it. We're literally experiencing some of the worst moments ever in the history of our club and the one who dares to point out the hypocrisy and lack of standards and bullshit of our 'legend' is embarrassing. Then I'm proud to be it thanks.
I literally explained in the next sentence why it's irrelevant. Or at least why it shouldn't be combined with the permanent role. It literally has a different name, different job completely - you're taking care of something until the next guy comes. You don't get to hire your own staff, you don't get to make decisions on signings etc. etc.
Why would I care about Championship? It's a lower league. But fine, let's talk about his time at Cardiff shall we? He took them (after they won the Championship comfortably the year before) in PL when they were out of relegation zone and won 18 points after 20 rounds, -17 GD. They finished dead last with 30 points and -42 GD. Then next season in Championship he left them in 17th place, they finished 11th after he left. Yay, you really got me on this one.
I didn't see that Alvarez interview. I apologize, I was wrong on the firing thing. Doesn't help that Ole still got an amateur to train our players though.
Also, Idc. My life won't be any worse or better either way. I come here once or twice to spend my post limit for the day and be on my way. I don't troll, I try to write good posts supported with good arguments and facts. If me being critical of the worst season in 30 years and the manager that oversaw it is somehow ban-worthy then so be it. Not aware that's the case though.
I have to apologize again here. I saw an article that had Moyes at 52.94, but after checking myself I see that was the wrong information. Let's celebrate Ole for being 0.8% better then. Yay.
Again with the personal attacks my God. Why does the constructive criticism of one of the worst managers ever and a horrible season we're having under his guidance bother you so much? Is this not a thread where we talk pros and cons of having Ole as a manager?
Also, no thanks. I jerk off to Allegri in a dark room with his greatest hits in the background.
Okay, let's...
Moyes took over a title winning team - FACT
Ole took over a team in 6th - ehhh...not really. He did take over the team when they were 6th but the season was far from over. That team finished 2nd in the last full season before that.
We were in an even worse position at the same point this season - FACT
Oh, I'm not defending Moyes at all. One of the worst managers ever anywhere, not just at United. Ole being basically even with him is not something to brag though. 50% win rate is baaaad, very bad unless you're Crystal Palace or something. Are we Crystal Palace?
Also, let's talk some more facts..
Did Ole or did he not get rid of Mourinho's 'deadwood'?
Did Ole or did he not have great recruitment this season?
Did Ole or did he not cultivate an amazing dressing room atmosphere?
And finally, if your answer to those is 'yes', how is it possible we're having such a poor season overall?
It doesn't take a lot of time at all really because I don't come up with anything. This is all factual and, most importantly, publicly available information to anyone. Only those who don't want to don't see it.
And when would that be that the team was performing 'well'? I 'left' two months before the team started doing 'well'. A little purple patch in a terrible season is not doing well. Unfortunately for Ole fanboys it's not possible to dissect the season and cherry pick which patches of form are taken into account. Every team has to play 38 games and the overall season counts no matter what Ole fanboys would let you believe.
1. I'm not cherry picking anything. It's public knowledge that caretaker and permanent manager are two completely different jobs.
2. What makes it even worse is you think a couple percentage points from the caretaker period somehow makes Ole's job here better
3. Yes, for a team with normal owners who want to invest money, who want to spend money, who want to win and have ambition - CL qualification would be a positive yes. For the leeches that own our club though it isn't good because there's 15 years of evidence of them spending significantly less when in CL. Common sense really. If it was the other way around I would root for CL too.
If that's what's going to be the best for Man Utd then I hope for the exact same thing.
I'm sorry mate - you have no clue what you're talking about. Company money and personal money are two different things. United doesn't dominate the sponsorships and marketing because it's owned by the Glazers. United dominates it because it's a global brand. We'd earn the same money, and even more, without the Glazers. They literally took billions out of the club, that's not how it works. End of.
Where have we been is in a bad state with Mourinho. Then we got a club 'legend' who improved recruitment and got rid of bad players from Mourinho's team. Now we're even worse. It's quite obvious where we're going.
I explained a 100 times why caretaker is different, not gonna go over it again.
1. I don't see a plan and certainly don't see or feel the progress.
2. Solskjaer is very different to managers you keep bringing on. He's a failure, they weren't.
3. Neither Pep or Zidane had more credentials than Ole when they became managers. But they brought instant results and proved themselves right away. Ole failed that very small part.
4. 40 years ago a man who would become the goat manager succeeded in completely different times, so this failed Cardiff manager must be on the same path.
Ole is literally two rounds from finishing the worst season in 30 years. End of. There's no good work there, there's no progress.
I can't believe you obv don't care and obv barely skimmed something, but know without a doubt the whole content of it and can successfully 'diagnose' it and took time to respond to it (even though you obv don't care). You're either a genius or a blind sheep who can't think for itself so just follows where the wind takes it. Kudos either way.
You feeling alright, mate?
Don't think so as he is banned.
Yes because I feel the over all progress we've made so far is very positive.
Even if the nerves were to get to everyone at the end, the recent string of results makes it unlikely that we would be shite at the start of the next season (mentioning this since some complain that recent results doesn't matter because full season). And then next year our young squad would also be more experienced on how their nerves acted up.
Not to mention the fact that I don't see a single available candidate that I think could come in and do a better job right now. Someone that could keep improving the positive improvements and not just rip it all up to start fresh again.
That said, this is just theorizing. We will be in the Champions League next season. I'm certain.
You just made all this up by just presuming to read my mind. Where did I even.mention about europa or where did I make a statement that he should be given next year no matter what. The problem is you want everyone to think like you and term Ole a failure and call him a "Cardiff Plonker".
Trust me if we don't finish top 4 you.will see more people question him than not but if we get top 4 people like you will still find a way to devalue it and bash Ole. That's the difference.
To be fair to @Mainoldo he's by no means the worst in here and is usually quite good-humoured about the whole thing.
Ohh I know and that's why I engage with him and avoid even having an argument with that newbie and the other fellow. I don't mind people questioning Ole, we all do but just don't get the idea people just make up facts to prove their agenda.
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Depends how you talk about it. Most of your posts are not questioning Ole. They are flat out saying he's a washed up cardiff PE teacher and we should get rid. That's nothing remotely like questioning him.
I haven't seen a single (serious) Ole in person say that they are behind him no matter how things turn out in the future. But they are saying they have seen enough up until this point that they believe he deserves more time, no matter how we end this season now with so short time left.
Would we support him as much next season if we are in relegation form? Unlikely, but we do have to remember that things aren't binary, if you look at the wider picture and you can see clear reasons that aren't directly Ole's fault there might be mitigating factors to give him the benefit of doubt (like there was this season).
But we don't know that until we get to next season.
We HAVE questioned the state of things this season, and the answers we found is that things are progressing, it's an upwards trajectory and we actually have fun watching football again unlike the sleep-inducing stuff we had post-Fergie. That we believe that this is currently the best strategy for us to get back on top.
Hallelujers.
There's a lot to like, but what I'm saying is despite doing all of that good work, would it not at the same time highlight some major issues if he fails to get us over the line for top-four, despite our rivals having mini collapses themselves around us. Especially since we had an opportunity last season also and the players fell to pieces in the final few games. I just don't think the work that Ole has done would be enough if he can't motivate a team with this talent to go out and do what's necessary to clinch this now and I'd have major doubts over him ever challenging for the title of he can't pull this off from here. Ask yourself this, could you see Klopp, Pep, Zidane or some of the other top managers in world football failing to get their team champions league football in a position such as this?
This is exactly it.
Most Ole in supporters are defending him against the nonsense that Ole out fans spew that aren't based on fact but are based on opinions of him simply not being good enough.
Most Ole In fans tend to agree that he has everything to prove, that we should be questioning when things go wrong, that the board should ALWAYS keep an eye on managerial targets incase Ole does a bad job. But they rightly, as far as I'm concerned, recognise that at the moment he is doing a good job and proving he should stay in the job to continue that progression.
Ole out fans flat out ignore the progress, or worse, pretend it is nothing to do with Ole. I think they forget how bad the atmosphere and football was under Moyes, LVG & Mourinho.
The results Ole had this season against Chelsea, Wolves, Man City, Lpool were great results based on tactical decisions. We struggled against the weak teams in the first half of the season and since January that has been put right as we got the 1 type of player Ole needed to deal with the low block.
Some Ole Out fans will even revert to talking about the weakness in the squad, as if that hasn't been well addressed in each of his transfer windows to date, expecting it to be sorted overnight.
Ole might not be the manager to win things but he sure has changed the trajectory of the club, the age of the squad, the mentality, and the enjoyment of match day for fans. Until he proves he is not good enough, as far as I'm concerned, he should be supported by these so called 'fans'.
If they can't support the man when things are going well there is a big problem. These 'fans' would rather see us miss top 4 just to prove Ole isn't good enough and they were right.
If we miss top 4 that will be a valid conversation to have, absolutely. The nature of how it was missed out would factor into that equation though. If it happens and it can all be pinned on the manager that would be different to getting shafted by injuries or poor officiating etc.
I dont think missing out on the top 4 necessarily means no progress is being made. Its possible to build the long term foundations of success while treading water in terms of short term results. Fergie did that for some time before things clicked. The same was true of Klopp's early time at Liverpool and Pochettino's at Spurs, and plenty of other clubs over the years.
Whether you think Ole is improving the fundamentals or not is the real issue.
The truth is that we're arguing about Ole when we should be arguing about the Glazers. And that's exactly why Woodward brought Ole in - he's a lightning conductor for criticism of him. No-one wants to attack Ole because he's likeable and a club legend, and so he protects the owners too. So while Ole is there none of the infrastructure problems are addressed. Notice how Woodward dropped the whole fake DoF plan as soon as he felt strong enough to do so.
And yes Klopp or Pep would have done much better. But they wouldn't and didn't want to work in a club that is so badly run.
I hope there won't be any bring back Moyes thread after today's match.
I have been an Ole out guy but I have changed my mind about giving him more time at least up to December next season.
I have seen progress but I still think he is naive in his tactics and he is not helping himself by having newbies as his assistants.
He should forget about the United way as the United way is the winning way.
We are too cumbersome sometimes and our set pieces especially corners have been horrible.
I have been an Ole out guy but I have changed my mind about giving him more time at least up to December next season.
I have seen progress but I still think he is naive in his tactics and he is not helping himself by having newbies as his assistants.
He should forget about the United way as the United way is the winning way.
We are too cumbersome sometimes and our set pieces especially corners have been horrible.
See I agree with you here. But the thing for me is what will elevate him as a manger he won’t do. As someone has mentioned his back room staff are his mates and from whispers around the club they aren’t very qualified for this level. One of those being the clubs fitness coach.
If he got better back room staff I reckon that would elevate him but he’s not going to do it. So the little tweaks you are referring to won’t happen. But we can hope.
Ole has stated multiple times that this is his dream-job. Why would he risk that to hire mates? He would want the best possible people for the job.
Most managers will bring their own team of people they trust, but Ole has hardly done that.
He retained Carrick and McKenna as First-Team Coaches, which was Mourinho appointments (And McKenna had come from doing great work with the U18's). This was a smart move as they had been there to see what went on in the years before and could advice Ole on what went wrong and what worked.
He brought in Phelan that worked under SAF.
The closest thing to a mate would be Mark Dempsey as another first-team coach. He was with Solskjær in Molde, Cardiff and Molde again. But he was also a youth coach in United before then.
Almost every single person working in his team have come through the United system and proved their talents coaching the younger players before being brought up.
Other staff either come from the FA or other top clubs.
I don't see a lot of Ole's mates in the team as described in this article.
(Not sure how outdated this is outside of Emilio)
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ews/man-utd-coaching-staff-solskjaer-16914024
We've had the same Head of Athletics since 2008, and the Fitness Coach was promoted from U18 after we let go the two previous fitness coaches last year (as we wanted a change). On paper maybe the fitness coach looks inexperienced, but he's not designing the fitness program by himself, he has the HoA, the sports scientists and so on to create our fitness strategies with.
I’ve never once said he’s a PE teacher. I just don’t think he’s good enough, tactically & especially In game management is awful. When things are going wrong or not working he seems incapable of changing the flow of the game.
I just don’t think he’s as good as the majority think in here & that his position really should be questioned end of the season. And if we don’t get top 4 with such a low points total to get it & Leicester imploding then he really shouldn’t be manager next season
Only two teams have done better at picking up points from losing positions than us, Wolves and Liverpool. We got points 50% of the time after falling behind, Wolves managed it 62% of the time and Liverpool managed it 66% of the time they fell behind in games. That might have been despite Ole I suppose, but that feels like a harsh criticism.
Stick to things you actually know something about, and leave commenting on the Norwegian league to those of us who actually follow it.
Slabber man?
I'm sure you don't need me to point out who he rested
Pogba, Martial and Greenwood. Who all ended up coming on. So he basically rested no one.
He did the same thing against Norwich, which was pointless
So two inexperienced first team coaches added in with his coach from Cardiff and Molde (Don’t bite that’s where they have come from).
The fitness coach who I imaged worked with the youth and reserves when Ole was part of United’s coaching team.
Don’t get me started on Phelan. He’s no Brian Kidd put it that way. But basically there hasn’t been much thought in recruiting his back room staff has there? He needs to atleast fix that going forward. He can keep his mate Dempsey but maybe he tries and get the best coaches in Europe for the other positions.
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