Having thought about this for another day I think.
We are going to need a better manager to stop Pool and City from dominating english football.
We are going to need a better manager to stop Pool and City from dominating english football.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Imagine a fanbase being this upset about going 18 games unbeaten. The probability of us winning all games left after the break is less than 1%. Almost no teams in the Premier League go 9x W in a season, let alone at the end of one.
let's try to get some reasonable perspective instead of being so massively reactionary to every bump in the road.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=30&max=36
This is the table since the league resumed: https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=30&max=36
We are literally the only team that has not lost since the league resumed.
let's try to get some reasonable perspective instead of being so massively reactionary to every bump in the road.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=30&max=36
This is the table since the league resumed: https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=30&max=36
We are literally the only team that has not lost since the league resumed.
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Yes I’m so upset about 18 games unbeaten.
Or maybe we’re looking at the season as a whole & how awful we were that even with a great run of form we’re still not in the top 4?
I wish in one game where it’s close or things aren’t working as we’d hope (like last night) that Ole would make an inspired change or change tactics/formation as it clearly wasn’t working.
The team should always be striving to improve itself and that includes the Ability of the manager.
It’s very unlikely that Solskjær will ever be anything other than a decent manager. We need a top class manager to stand a chance of regaining the title.
It’s very unlikely that Solskjær will ever be anything other than a decent manager. We need a top class manager to stand a chance of regaining the title.
We also had a bloody easy run after the break. Sheffield is fairly hard, but then we had Brighton, Villa and Bournemouth. 3/4 easiest sides to have in the league.
We have beaten bigger teams before though so that is good.
If we don’t make top four then he should be sacked. Just like every other manager post Fergie.
Question is, can Ole improve and become that manager? Almost no manager appears on the scene as the finished article. Jose and Pep probably bring the only two I can think of in recent times. Most learn on the job.
Maybe with better assistants. I think they need to work on movement in the buildups and how to have the right space between players. It looks so individual in the way we attack rather than like a unit as it is with City and Liverpool to a degree .
Regarding improving things with transfers I think it is pretty hard in this modern market. It is hard to find gems. We tried with Dan James, but it has not worked that well.
Normally this is my stance for any manager we have, but because of the introduction of Bruno leading to a significant upturn in results as well as COVID-19 playing a part in our season where we can have Pogba for more games and have Rashford back completely, then I’m tempted to stick with him but only provided the likes of Sancho are bought in the summer.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt for that. Our current struggle is because our first half of the season was very mediocre and we can speculate ‘what if’s around where we would be now if Bruno was bought last summer. Lingard, Pereira and Mata are either not good enough or not suited to the playstyle in Matas case. We’re playing catch up in order to make up for that period of claiming the scalp of a good team then stutter to two smaller teams (I.e. for a win against City away, there’s two losses to Palace and Burnley at home)
If OGS cant get the results with even more quality added to the squad or it reverts back to April 2019 - January 2020 period by Christmas 2020 then he should go, and we can say he laid sufficient groundwork for a better manager to come in and run with that team.
Don’t want to criticise Ole as I’m over it. But did it take those managers 10 years? The ones you are talking about. Most great managers I know became good fairly quickly.
Anyhing other than a win and ALL the Ole out brigade are out in full force.
Just like you - whining for 12 months, and still not having anything remotely interesting to contribute with
I have missed you Mainoldo - United must have been doing well for a while
Some of the fans are truly mental and delusional. You think Ole is some sort of managerial Jesus who is going to win every game ? Games like this are bound to happen, we experienced this under SAF too (4-4 Everton choke anyone??) but nobody calls for his head. We played really well yesterday until we lost Williams. Still our fate is in our hands and I dont see Chelsea or Leicester winning their last 3.
Like Mourinho was sacked after finishing 6th?
I agree, I should probably discuss. That said, a lot of us(including myself) has discussed this topic to great lengths. It’s the negativity that kills this forum, it’s not the opinions.
Ole-in is not very accurate tbf. It’s more about wanting a proper process. Ole has done great in that regard. I think people should back him and trust the process. If Ole can’t handle the next step; challenge Liverpool and City, the next manager will inherit a great team.
Anyway, at this point, Ole has done so much right and rightly should be backed by our fan base. We can’t revisit this thread every time we don’t win a match. That’s just plain negativity/knee jerk.
When do we identify him not being ready for the next step?
Agreed though we should continue to be positive.
I think you know he means CL qualification and to be fair, that's the metric every manager has been judged on post Fergie. Mourinho finished 6th and won the EL, thus getting CL qualification.
I imagine the majority will still support him if we get 5th and he gets wins the EL.
It's lazy to just judge him over the course of the entire season given the difference between our performances pre and post Bruno. We are a different team. I say this as someone who was full on backing him to get sacked back in December/January.
For me he's actually done a pretty remarkable job to turn things around so much. I wanted him gone because I didn't think it was possible that a manager could turn things around from such a shocking run of results and form, but he did so to just say "we should sack him if we don't get top four" considering we're the best performing team in the league over the last 20 odd games is daft.
I still have legitimite concerns over whether he's the right fit and the fact that our two really great spells under him happened when very little pressure was actually on the team and we seem to (for want of a better word) "bottle" it when the pressure is on and we can actually achieve something - but he deserves backing going into next season regardless of our final position this season.
For me he's actually done a pretty remarkable job to turn things around so much. I wanted him gone because I didn't think it was possible that a manager could turn things around from such a shocking run of results and form, but he did so to just say "we should sack him if we don't get top four" considering we're the best performing team in the league over the last 20 odd games is daft.
I still have legitimite concerns over whether he's the right fit and the fact that our two really great spells under him happened when very little pressure was actually on the team and we seem to (for want of a better word) "bottle" it when the pressure is on and we can actually achieve something - but he deserves backing going into next season regardless of our final position this season.
I would look at the way we play and if he can get more out of the team than the sum of the parts. Liverpool and City gets that often.
Some players have improved under Ole, but they are talented to have been able to do it under many managers. Thinking about Rashford,Greenwood and Martial mainly.
You could maybe add Shaw too and Mctominay earlier in the season.
The number of players that has turned for the worse is a worry too , but some of them like with Lingard and Mata might have been hard to improve.
There's some very childish overly aggressive comments from the staunch Ole fans in here. Can some of you not be objective and tackle the issues raised in posts rather than resorting to petulant, disparaging remarks.
Someone like @Revan has gone and sought out actual stats etc. to reinforce his point. Some have responded by completely ignoring everything he has said by resorting to petty shit like he 'hates' Ole. Makes it a very arduous process trying to discuss Ole on here with certain posters who have nailed their flag firmly to his mast and won't hear of any critique.
Someone like @Revan has gone and sought out actual stats etc. to reinforce his point. Some have responded by completely ignoring everything he has said by resorting to petty shit like he 'hates' Ole. Makes it a very arduous process trying to discuss Ole on here with certain posters who have nailed their flag firmly to his mast and won't hear of any critique.
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Well said, what I'm most interested in now is how they respond to the poor performance.
Do they come out fighting and smash Palace or has it knocked their confidence?
That will tell us all we need to know about the mentality of the group.
My biggest complaint about last night is I still don't understand why he didn't sub on Sancho or Grealish to add some quality when it was clear that our starting creative players were having an off-day.
We didn't win yesterday. I have been an Ole out guy from the beginning. However, I have said if things change I would like to give him a chance.
I still have issues with him. The lack of variations in corners and a good tactically competent coach in his staff and on field tactics during the game. I never wanted Poch as I don't think it would be a massive upgrade on Ole. We will know a lot more next season.
This is the thing, not once have I seen Ole change a game for us through a sub/tactical game when the game is tight or we’re getting outplayed. I think Manchester United deserves a top quality manager, not a half decent one
I think reality is setting in that we could potentially miss out on top 4 again. The key to Ole keeping the job has always been getting into the top 4 and if he doesn't get it then we should question his position.
The season is on a crazy knife edge: We could potentially finish third and win two cups or conceivably finish fifth and meekly crash out of both cups.
If the former happens, it will have been a great season and if it's the latter, then the posters who have nailed their flag to the 'Ole in' mast, no matter what, will have to suck up the deserved criticism that will follow.
Obviously these are two hypothetical scenarios and it could really be anything in between. At the moment I'm happy for him to stay but a-lot will depend on the coming weeks. There's been some recent positives for sure but all the negatives from the season simply can't be ignored either.
If the former happens, it will have been a great season and if it's the latter, then the posters who have nailed their flag to the 'Ole in' mast, no matter what, will have to suck up the deserved criticism that will follow.
Obviously these are two hypothetical scenarios and it could really be anything in between. At the moment I'm happy for him to stay but a-lot will depend on the coming weeks. There's been some recent positives for sure but all the negatives from the season simply can't be ignored either.
In hindsight Ole shouldn't have made the three sets of changes before the end,he then could have brought Bailly on for that corner.
I was hoping he could have brought on Gigi for some creative spark. Did you see what he done to Barca!
Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if half of you are wum merchants.
Ole's transfer activity has been good. He's brought in good quality players without panic buying and got rid of a lot of the dead wood and negative players here for the wrong reasons.
We've been very unlucky with injuries this year which also seems to be a miss (Pogba, Martial, Rashford).
Our record against the top 6 is pretty good.
He's identified we needed a creative player to break down the teams we can't counter attack and get in behind. Since Bruno has come in the rest has been self explanatory.
Ole gets us and is implementing the United DNA we've lost since Fergie left. He might not be the biggest tactical genius in the world but he obviously has a clear vision of what he wants to build and it's an attacking interchangeable team with a bit of bite and flair and personally I don't believe we're far away at all.
Ole's transfer activity has been good. He's brought in good quality players without panic buying and got rid of a lot of the dead wood and negative players here for the wrong reasons.
We've been very unlucky with injuries this year which also seems to be a miss (Pogba, Martial, Rashford).
Our record against the top 6 is pretty good.
He's identified we needed a creative player to break down the teams we can't counter attack and get in behind. Since Bruno has come in the rest has been self explanatory.
Ole gets us and is implementing the United DNA we've lost since Fergie left. He might not be the biggest tactical genius in the world but he obviously has a clear vision of what he wants to build and it's an attacking interchangeable team with a bit of bite and flair and personally I don't believe we're far away at all.
Klopp had 7 mixed years at Mainz, then another couple at Dortmund before he won the league. Poch was at Espanyol then Southampton for 5 years before joining Spurs, and again took a couple of seasons to really transform that team. Hard to say exactly how long it should take, depends on the league and other factors I suppose.
Yes, Top 4 is crucial and I would agree. However; we have the backup of Europa league so I cannot see Ole sacked.
If we are sacking Ole in August and hiring a new coach, it means next season is a washout.
We all have issues with Ole. I have had issues with Ole too, his management style is to copy SAF but football has moved on, with the players we have we need to be asserting ourselves.
However; he has started to turn things around, no way he will get sacked, no way we sell Maguire.. its what we have, lets back him and hope we can get into the top 4.
Exactly, if Poch isnt the man who is? There isn't that many top class managers out there.
Jury out on those defenders and justifiably so as well. As for Dan James he's a perfect example of the 'big drop off in quality' that people refer to when we sub one of our attacking players.
We're close enough to top 4 and in good enough form that we'll stick with him even if he misses out.
I was Ole out for a good while and i still think we could do better but there's enough there to put off risking any turbulence.
He's fortunate that the rest are so shit as our points total is really poor. Not his fault of course but if Arsenal or Spurs were having a better season he'd be in major trouble.
So if I get this right:
Before Jan: Ole is just a counter-attack guy who can only set his teams up against big teams. Doesn’t get results against minnows. Sack him!
After Jan: Ole is just rolling over minnows and can’t set up to win against good teams (based on one f***ing draw caused by a calamitous injury and from the opposition’s one decent chance). Sack him!
I really had thought it would take a defeat before the Ole Out brigade came back out of the woodwork. Clearly I overestimated their intellect.
Before Jan: Ole is just a counter-attack guy who can only set his teams up against big teams. Doesn’t get results against minnows. Sack him!
After Jan: Ole is just rolling over minnows and can’t set up to win against good teams (based on one f***ing draw caused by a calamitous injury and from the opposition’s one decent chance). Sack him!
I really had thought it would take a defeat before the Ole Out brigade came back out of the woodwork. Clearly I overestimated their intellect.
Arguably Mourinho had better effect on his transfers early on before Sanchez. Next people wanting them gone etc.
Maguire got weaknesses and so people might want him gone soon. Probably not with Bruno and Wan Bissaka, but we will see.
Could the debate not be rebooted to be asking whether we are getting over excited?
The extreme position of No Top 4 - Ole Out just looks stupid (I hope).
I think 5th place and no trophies is very possible but that ought not to mean he goes either.
I thought we over achieved very early on. I thought we were very poor indeed for a couple of months. I wouldn't have moaned if they had of sacked him.
But not now, the team is largely transformed and ought to finish in the Top 4 next season.
Which yes, is next season I'm afraid. Its still next season with a new Manager having invited pissing off Ole's players and having another set of ideas to integrate.
A little bit of patience, much less moaning, when things are going well.
The extreme position of No Top 4 - Ole Out just looks stupid (I hope).
I think 5th place and no trophies is very possible but that ought not to mean he goes either.
I thought we over achieved very early on. I thought we were very poor indeed for a couple of months. I wouldn't have moaned if they had of sacked him.
But not now, the team is largely transformed and ought to finish in the Top 4 next season.
Which yes, is next season I'm afraid. Its still next season with a new Manager having invited pissing off Ole's players and having another set of ideas to integrate.
A little bit of patience, much less moaning, when things are going well.
Can we remind ourselves that we're 18 games unbeaten and have only conceded 8 goals? Before last night our team had only allowed 7 passes beyond our 20 yard line. Individual mistakes will happen that's variance for you but our defence isn't a concern for me, the signings of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka we're very good by Ole regardless. Dan James was never meant to be a start, just an impact squad player with his pace obviously being the main asset to use.
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