I never said we were good enough to win the league. This isn't a league winning squad, regardless of whatever you're hinting at.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I never said we were good enough to win the league. This isn't a league winning squad, regardless of whatever you're hinting at.
What's funny is you telling me grow up after reading your posts all season.
You're a glass half-empty kinda fella aren't you?
We spank relegation fodder 5-2 with 72% possession 19 shots 10 of which were on target vs them scoring 1 of their two or three shots on target and a silly penalty and you claim they cut through us with ease.
You claim to be objective and rational but the evidence suggests that you amplify the negative and downplay the positives when watching football.
Not sure i understand replies like "Ole will be here next season no matter what" to people who express their certain concerns or their opinion where they want him gone after this season if we dont get CL. I mean what (above) have to do with anything.
Fair criticism maybe but the incessant posts of a few people on here "waaah, waaah, we might not get top.4" is boring and more agenda driven than anyone you think is "pro Ole" (and they're not by the way, they're pro progress that's being made).
Getting in the top 4 is important yes but it can't be the ONLY metric of how well the manager is doing (or not) surely? You honestly think that the change in our team, our style of play, our improved team mentality, the future (compared to what Ole inherited) .... should ALL be ignored if we come 5th by a point?
The other agenda driven poster said Oles transfers were "ok" but overpriced... really, ok?! And since when did Ole determine the price we pay for players? He also said bringing through Greenwood was decent (and Williams not so) but it was the same as Van Gaal bringing through Rashford. Rubbish, Van Gaal brought Rashford in because we were down to the bare bones then tried to claim he was some genius. Yes Greenwood is clearly a great prospect but Oles management of him has been spot on.
This team is night and day from what Ole inherited and I'm more bothered about progress than top.4. If all you're interested in is top.4, go support City... they're nailed on all the time.
But the guy he replied to, who made tons of negative threads about Ole, and hope we lose every game so he can "win" the argument on The Caf, is extremely valuable.
I’ve told no lies. Many in here have!!
Something tickle you?
Very well said.
Do squads win leagues or first 11’s?
Keep, yesterday just proves the point we don’t have the squad to challenge, first XI can. But on the bench how many are top 6 quality? The ones in bold I think are
Romero
Williams
Bailly
Fred
McTominay
Mata
Pereira
James
Ighalo
Romero
Williams
Bailly
Fred
McTominay
Mata
Pereira
James
Ighalo
The actual truth is somewhere in the middle as always.
This was a Cup game then, was it? Damn! And here I was thinking we’d done reasonably fine for a team having an off-day against the team with the second best away record in the PL this season. That’s me told, then.
Seriously though, have a look at yourself.
I’d go reverse and bold the guys which aren’t. Which are Periera and James. Anyone else can play in a top 6 team easily.
Let’s not go full ‘Leicester have a better team than ours again’ then want to back track when these players have a good 3 games.
Do you have a point to make or are you just being deliberately obtuse?
I’m asking you your opinion. I don’t feel you need a great squad to win the league if you have a good first 11.
Romero is not top 6 quality. He mostly plays against poor opposition and has flattered to deceive. He was poor for that goal against Norwich, for example.
Fred/McTominay were playing brilliantly before the break. I'm not sure what's happened since, maybe they haven't had enough games but they've been completely off the pace.
Not at all. Against Sheffield United we were totally in control & it was a brilliant team performance. Against Bournemouth it wasn’t so good
Firstly, context is really important here. Had Mou not won EL that season, how many of us would have said- sack him now? Everyone saw that we were on the rise then, and it made no sense to have sacked him for finishing 6th. Add to that everyone acknowledged that we were playing well, but had poor luck in front of goal.
Similarly, for Ole. We are clearly in transition, we were unlucky with injuries and add to that we are on the rise. It makes no sense to sack a manager irrespective of where we finish if the team has been showing improvements for this long
If you're lucky with injuries you'll maybe get away with it but yes you do need a great squad to consistently challenge for titles, champions leagues and the cups.
If you have a great first XI and a poor bench what happens when someone's having an off-day, needs a rest, gets injured or you need to change things to get the win? You're bring on Jesse Lingard/Pereira and crying yourself to sleep that's what.
This was a Cup game then, was it? Damn! And here I was thinking we’d done reasonably fine for a team having an off-day against the team with the second best away record in the PL this season. That’s me told, then.
Seriously though, have a look at yourself.
I don’t quite understand what you’re going on about..Southampton are a lower In the league than us? That’s what I meant . And that they tactically outsmarted us
How is that a valid comparison?
Sheffield Utd were poor and hardly attacked us at all. Bournemouth at least gave it a bit of a go.
You do realise the performance of the opposition has an impact on how the team performs, right?
Top 4 isn’t the only metric but it’s an important one if we still have ambitions of playing at the highest level. I think we need to consider it there’s better managers out there that’s all, I feel the question should be asked.
His transfers have been decent on the whole yes, although Wan Bisaker recently isn’t looking so good.
And no I don’t want to support another club that gets top 4. I’m kinda fond of this club & just want the best for it that’s all
Sack him or keep him?
He's don't enough to to be given a chance into next season. I still think it's too early to take it any further than that. On a personal note I still question his tactics in defending. However, he can only take so much of the blame as there's been plenty of individual mistakes defensively.
Maguire has really struggled since lockdown.
De Gea made some silly mistakes which isn't him.
Dalot still yet to prove he's up to the plate.
Rojo simply not good enough and at best a bench player.
Lindelof I would keep even though not quite at the standard we/I want. Good back up player though.
Ole definitely needs to dabble (( defensively )) in the summer market if we're going to challenge the top two next year. I'll be really disappointed if he doesn't.
He's don't enough to to be given a chance into next season. I still think it's too early to take it any further than that. On a personal note I still question his tactics in defending. However, he can only take so much of the blame as there's been plenty of individual mistakes defensively.
Maguire has really struggled since lockdown.
De Gea made some silly mistakes which isn't him.
Dalot still yet to prove he's up to the plate.
Rojo simply not good enough and at best a bench player.
Lindelof I would keep even though not quite at the standard we/I want. Good back up player though.
Ole definitely needs to dabble (( defensively )) in the summer market if we're going to challenge the top two next year. I'll be really disappointed if he doesn't.
Well that makes it look even worse for Ole if you’re saying our best performance since the restart was just that Sheff United were shite & that Infact we should expect Bournemouth & Southampton to cause us problems
I think Fred has some ability. McTominay could possibly end up as a Darren Fletcher-type big game player for us, but I don't really see him developing into a regular starter.
I don't think any of Bailly, Mata, James or Pereira would find a place at another top 6 club if they left united (indeed the latter two would likely find it difficult to remain in the premier League at all).
The reason they are on the bench. They are not starter quality. Now, you say they are not top 6 quality. Let's compare benches.
Look at the top 6 now. apart from City, none of the other teams players would get into our team either.
You literally called them a "lower league team" as opposed to a team lower in the league. By the way, does that mean Klopp should be sacked for losing to Watford? What does it say for Pep that Ole did the double (triple?) on him? Or Poch whom Ole bested? By picking on one very unlucky draw in a phenomenal and increasingly positive run for the club, you show yourself as agenda-driven. Whether you like it or not; whether you even admit it to yourself or not, you are agenda-driven.
To the objective observer, this is a phenomenal run in which we've just drawn against a team bang in form and which has the second-best away record in the league and who are in the bottom-half solely because of inexplicably poor home form. Yet, reading your messages, one would thing we're in gloomy shape and staring relegation in the face instead of being tied on points with fourth, one behind third and facing a favourable last 3 - oh and still in 2 Cup competitions as on date.
We’ve been on an excellent run which I’ve praised Ole for & it’s not particularly last nights result that is disappointing, it’s the season as a whole.
Despite an amazing run we are still not even 4th & that’s because for the season as a whole we haven’t been good enough. Call it agenda driven if you like but I think you’re agenda driven if you don’t think if we don’t reach top 4 that discussions should be held at least as to what went wrong
Bournemouth have caused us some problems in the past. How we reacted to going a goal down in that match and against Southampton was very encouraging and we could have been out of sight by half-time.
You've already been told this but Southampton have one of the best away records in the league and cause everyone problems. They went to Leicester and Chelsea and won and have beaten City recently.
Are you seriously suggesting you don't think that teams outside the top 10 will cause the top teams problems?
Absolute and utter tosh. If you can't see that the reasons we are not yet fourth are actually genuine and there's more than enough to suggest Ole is doing a great job right now, you're either ignorant or agenda-driven or both. You're basically literally saying that from here on, there could really be a scenario wherein we tie on points for fourth with Leicester and were we to be one goal ahead in GD, you'd keep and were we one behind you'd want him gone, regardless of how well the dressing-room regards him and how good his work has been. That my friend reeks of agenda and/or ignorance.
I voted to sack Ole when this poll was started last year, there wasn't a lot he had done up until then that convinced me we were on the right track even when we won all those games in his honeymoon period. I have changed my mind and my vote now though since surely every single person who has seen us play in the last 5 months can see the momentum and the massive difference in how things are going now compared to last year.
Yes we were awful at the start of the season, but replacing McTominay/Mata/Pereira with Bruno and Pogba was basically like putting an engine back in a car, and with a functioning car it looks like Ole can both get us points and have us play football that makes you excited for game day, which is sadly something I haven't been able to say for a very long time.
I just don't see the point in looking back to a injury filled and Bruno-less time last year when we've improved so much and are basically playing like a whole new team today.
Are you comparing our subs with starting XI of other top 6 sides?
Fred/McT/Romero will easily be atleast squad players for I think every top 6 side (maybe even City but that's a different argument, which I don't want to get into). Underrating of our players after a draw/loss has become the norm on here
I have an issue with Romero and have little trust in him, especially as his knees apparently won't hold up to an extended run of games. I think it's short-sighted as I think we'd be in trouble if De Gea was out for a long time but it's not the most pressing issue imo.
I've no issue with Fred/McT as they have shown what they can do before the re-start. They have looked poor since but as I said they probably aren't match fit and I think rotation was needed before now.
It's AM/RW/CB where we need quality back-ups
Words and figures...
You say top.4 is not the only metric but a lot of your posts suggest otherwise. If they didn't, you wouldn't have seen the number of replies you've had? No-one minds opinions on here, but narrow negative views are always going to get called out.
There was a post a few pages back by someone listing some of the things from last night.... Martial not getting 1-2 more, Rashford not burying that chance, Pogba having one of his mind farts, the terrible ref/VAR decision that should have taken them down to 10 men, the sheer fluke of both LBs getting injured, the defending for the last corner. We can't blame Ole for everything?!
That game gets played another 10 times, I reckon we win it 6/7 times. Last night we had an off night combined with all of those
factors and got a draw against a team who beat City the other week. Would you sack Pep because with that team and that spending, his points total is poor and he got completely out-thought by Southampton's boss because they lost? It's no good saying City were the better team and unlucky because we can't look at other factors (bar the result and points) if we're ignoring the factors from last night's game Also remember that Bruno has started 11 PL games and Pogba 10, mainly the more recent games, games where we've looked good and which give a better indicator of recent progress and what we should be like next season.
You look at the entire season and say "not top.4, not good enough, look to replace Ole".
I look at it and think he's moved loads of deadwood on, brought in good new players, instilled a much better mentality, brought through a couple of young players and the future looks positive so I'd keep him, irrespective of a disappointing draw which is one match.
And I'm definitely NOT going to say you'd have sacked Fergie in the late 80s.
Did anyone say that? But offering an opinion is at least better than that crap I quoted.
Things have been going well for a while but there’s legitimate areas of concern and the season should be looked at as a whole, considering not just the last 18 games but also the reasons why we’re still 5th after such a fantastic run.
But the point is that the reason this forum has largely gone to shit is that everyone has to fit into one camp or another on every issue and people don’t seem to accept the fact that opinions can be fluid and there’s more nuance to discussions on a variety of issues than what you and others boil down to “Ole out brigade” or whatever other childish shit you’re on these days.
This is meant to be a discussion forum. If you come across opinions you disagree with then discuss them, counter them, offer your own views. Simply posting “stop crying” over and over is pointless and stupid and only serves to reinforce the divided nature of the forum.
Mata doesn’t even start for Norwich let alone a top 6 team. Not saying Leicester have a better team far from it, compare starting XI I would take Ndidi over Matic and that’s it.
I really like our first 11, but you can’t take Pogba & Bruno off for players who are better off the ball than on it, which is why we need Grealish & maybe even Van de Beek or Tonali before we can really be contenders, as well as signing Sancho and a maybe a CB (if Tuanzebe can stay fit) before we can compete. 2 summer windows before we can push Liverpool & City
Romero - starts for Leicester & Chelsea
Williams - Starts for Chelsea & City (kind of competition we need all over the pitch)
Bailly- I really like him but too rash and injury prone
Fred- energetic, works hard but ultimately not good enough on the ball for me for a top 6 side (not a true DM)
McTominay- same as Fred
James - pace to burn but yet can’t beat a man and his end product isn’t good enough
Mata - nice guy but is really bad
Ighalo- could partner Jimenez at Wolves, also no worse than Giroud or Abraham
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