Klopp had taken Dortmund to the European final and league titles. He had proven that he was worthy of trust over several years. OGS hasn't beyond the last 17 games.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Klopp had taken Dortmund to the European final and league titles. He had proven that he was worthy of trust over several years. OGS hasn't beyond the last 17 games.
Think you give Pep to much credit. He based his play on Cruyf and the culture at Barca. He did not invent posession football. Besides there was a lot more there than Messi. Both Xavi and Iniesta are Goats.
As for Jose he clearly was a serial winner back in the day, but mostly with big clubs with a lot of resources.
Btw Ole has been really lucky as well. If you asked in 2018 i cant imagine many would bet he would mange us right now.
One draw and the cretins are back out
Oh, I was out before the draw. There are legitimate reasons to wonder if OGS is qualified to turn the team into title contenders that were obvious before the draw. People who are dismissing all doubts about him as "knee-jerk" are misrepresenting the biggest doubts about OGS.
First time I come back on that thread since february, I remember the large majority who voted sack.
Crazy to see the tables turning and so proud of Solskjaer.
Crazy to see the tables turning and so proud of Solskjaer.
Agree there have been doubts from the start. He proved many people wrong with his early start, but could not build on it.
Now we will see if he can build on this good run. You need to tactically develop a team during a good run rather than just use the same tactic.
If not he will be found out eventually.
One draw and the cretins are back out
one draw where he got done by both his LBs getting injured in a span of 15 minutes and the "3 sub window" rule and had to play a man down for extra time.
The thing with Pep and other such managers is that they remain committed to that system with minor tweaks and eventually over time (because in their mind, it's the greatest system), they fall off the peak. Look at every manager - Cryuff, Michels, Sacchi, even Mou to a degree and the likes. Its one of the reasons why SAF was successful - play around with tactics , and change your backroom staff every few years as the tactical coaches at the club would be resistent to change. Its a separate conversation, but Ole has shown that the team has been working on multiple playing styles - which is really good to see.
Before the Ole Outers come and quote the post, I'm not saying that Ole>Pep (atleast not now).
This credentials talk is old and barely relevant. Football isn't a game played on paper, there are as many intangible factors that go into how things play out on the pitch as there are tangible ones. The fact that Ole knows the culture of the club inside and out has value. The fact that his credentials as a player and his status as a United legend endears him to players and fans has value.
United fans who have seen the last 7 years should know better than anyone that there's more to building a good team than sticking a United badge on the best players and most accomplished manager currently available and leaving them to it. The fact that there are managers out there with better CVs than Ole's doesn't necessarily make them a better fit for this club at this time.
United fans who have seen the last 7 years should know better than anyone that there's more to building a good team than sticking a United badge on the best players and most accomplished manager currently available and leaving them to it. The fact that there are managers out there with better CVs than Ole's doesn't necessarily make them a better fit for this club at this time.
I think some people just like to grumble. On days Utd win, they probably all go off to different forums to grumble about mobile phones or the price of tyres.One draw and the cretins are back out
I can say this I would take Ole over Lampard and Rodgers 
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.We should have kept attacking, but with the options on the bench how could he? Still hasn't lost in 18.
There aren’t any legitimate reasons to question his qualifications at all. And yes, it is knee-jerk to jump in the Ole out thread after a draw, considering the form we’ve been in recently.
You’re all just sour that we haven’t got one of the in-vogue hipster managers.
Yeah I would 100%, no matter who was in charge if I was seeing the same progress as under Ole.
Who knows if he's the right man or not for the job long term, but so far I'm more than happy with the job he's doing since he came in.
Trust me mate, its nothing to do with backing managers blindly. If its not working its not working, but thats the thing, I don't think we have got it wrong with Ole.
I think he's well worth sticking with, as I think we're in a better place now than we've been at any time since the great man packed it in.
I had him getting the sack before the new year when the season started, and I feel he's just about bought himself another season.
It's likely just high tensions. We're close to making CL in his first full season dammit!One draw and the cretins are back out
I still rate him based of what I decided entering his first full season (regardless of how it has developed so far). Top 4 immediate success, a close 5th or 6th acceptable for first season, far behind top four useless.
It's hard not to see him at acceptable progress (and thus deserving of another season) right now, with a reasonable chance at being considered an immediate success.
Next season the "acceptable" bar is raised to a definite top four, with success sitting at shortening most of the gap between United and the current top two.
(Obviously winning the EL substitutes top four, but measuring coaches on cups won is almost a certain disappointment).
If we miss out on Champions League we should consider his position. He should only be replaced by a forward thinking manager like Poch. I fear another season of Ole we would revert to being quite defensive in bigger games and get found out once of twice along the way against the likes of Southampton last night. I don't think we have a issue now with breaking "smaller" teams down like we did before, we have moved on a bit, with the help of a couple of added players.
It's likely just high tensions. We're close to making CL in his first full season dammit!
I still rate him based of what I decided entering his first full season (regardless of how it has developed so far). Top 4 immediate success, a close 5th or 6th acceptable for first season, far behind top four useless.
It's hard not to see him at acceptable progress (and thus deserving of another season) right now, with a reasonable chance at being considered an immediate success.
Next season the "acceptable" bar is raised to a definite top four, with success sitting at shortening most of the gap between United and the current top two.
(Obviously winning the EL substitutes top four, but measuring coaches on cups won is almost a certain disappointment).
The squad have improved massively over the season, only a moron would fail to eee that. He’s worked wonders considering the mess we were in 18 months ago, and he’s good as long as the progress continues.
It's likely just high tensions. We're close to making CL in his first full season dammit!
I still rate him based of what I decided entering his first full season (regardless of how it has developed so far). Top 4 immediate success, a close 5th or 6th acceptable for first season, far behind top four useless.
It's hard not to see him at acceptable progress (and thus deserving of another season) right now, with a reasonable chance at being considered an immediate success.
Next season the "acceptable" bar is raised to a definite top four, with success sitting at shortening most of the gap between United and the current top two.
(Obviously winning the EL substitutes top four, but measuring coaches on cups won is almost a certain disappointment).
You have to rate also in comparison to the competition. That Chelsea squad has much bigger holes than we do. And Leicester doesn't have the same level of talent as UTD. He has to make it to top 4. Mourinho, Moyes & LVG were judged with the same criteria. Missing top 4 is unacceptable. If he makes, he has earned another season.
He hasn't done all that badly. If he brings in Rúben Neves then it's ok. We'll see his buys.
Rúben Neves shouldn't be all that hard to sway him to United. But City and Liverpool will be after him aswell. Tme to use Bruno Fernandes, Ole.
World class shooter. He's like a young Wayne Rooney. And when he joins United he needs freedom to shoot.
Rúben Neves shouldn't be all that hard to sway him to United. But City and Liverpool will be after him aswell. Tme to use Bruno Fernandes, Ole.
World class shooter. He's like a young Wayne Rooney. And when he joins United he needs freedom to shoot.
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He has had several seasons at Molde and got relegated at Cardiff. Now he's managing (arguably) the biggest club on earth, with immense public pressure and aiming to compete with the two best managers on earth (Pep and Klopp). How is questioning his qualifications not legitimate?
Knee-jerk is reactionary and automatic. People who had doubts about him before the draw still having doubts about him after the draw is not a knee-jerk reaction because they're not reacting to anything or changing their mind. Are we only allowed to question managers after their team wins? And how long does a run of good form have to last before it becomes knee-jerk to have doubts? Do we all have to shut up after 10 games unbeaten?
If by "in vogue" you mean having been successful over several recent seasons and not just "given long term contract because of a good few months as interim manager", then yes I would rather that. Liverpool and City got those "in-vogue hipster" managers and it worked fairly well.
Yep. The current run is good but eventually Bruno's form will dip a little or he'll get injured. If we just revert to how we were at the start of this season, has any progress been made?
Point.3.
City played Southampton the other night and were losing. City have Pep, the greatest manager that's ever lived (if you're a City fan, the media or Lineker)... but yeah, he's a top manager tbf.
So what did the top manager do? He replaced two (mega expensive) attacking players in Mahrez and Sterling with two (partly expensive) attacking players in KdB and Foden. And they lost.... to the team we just drew against (with 10 men at the end, from a 95th minute goal).
Why not drop a defender for a forward? Why not change defensive shape? He did the same thing and with a bit of luck, a game plan and a great work ethic/holding formation, Southampton won.
Is Pep not a top manager? Of course he is.
If you simply stuck to one of the lines in your post (about assessing Ole at the season end), posters wouldn't have an issue. But you persist with multiple negative posts and slightly demeaning at times (as @lysglimt pointed out when he copied just a few of your posts from the start of this thread).
#balance
mou got 6th place saved by EL, remember?
Which had absolutely nothing to do with what he was doing at Liverpool, nor what Ole is doing at United.
What you've done at other clubs should in no way determine how much time you get, the direction and progress youre making should.
Klopp got that time because he'd proved that Liverpool were improving and needed another transfer window, just like Ole & United.
And same old arguments. Poch, championship cv, etc. you name itOne draw and the cretins are back out
Common, don't they even get tired repeating the same shite that many times?
Do they even watch us play? I seriously doubt this tbh.
You don't understand what knee jerk means, by the sounds of things .
No, knee jerk is flaring up the fire Ole debate again after a 2-2 draw at home.
It's so absurd that we're comparing the team we have today to the one we've had to string along all season and somehow expect equal results all season. Sure.
Do we really know this for sure though? Do you think they would have sacked Mourinho and LVG had they not made Champions League in their first seasons? I'm not sure, but I don't remember too much written about Mou having to win the final to stay after he put us 6th in his first season.
I thought the LVG sacking was a bit harsh from a results PoV, but our football was DIRE (49 goals was it?), so I was looking forward to something else anyway. The other two delivered calamities of seasons compared to the previous one.
One took on board champions and didn't even qualify for Europe (~25 points less), the other one would have clocked in at a record low 58 points if looking at the games he managed (~23 points less). Both very just sackings.
A lot of fans like to include and exclude his first few months (caretaker) based purely on whether it fits their argument or not. If we include that period we're slightly worse off compared to last season (showing complete disregard for the so-called "new manager bounce" and/or uncertainty motivation), if we hold him to what he's done as permanent manager we're probably about 25-30 points better off this season than how the last one ended.
I'd be genuinely surprised if we let Ole go even after narrowly missing out on top four.
Even if Ole doesn’t get top 4 this seasons, he has done a lot more right than the 3 previous managers we’ve had!
- He’s got rid of the obvious deadwood that everyone could see needed to go. (And looking get rid of more). For some reason the likes of Young, Fellani, Lingard were loved by previous managers even Though they were crap.
- All the signings from the previous managers were terrible signings and all failed (except for Martial). The signings Ole has brought in have been a success in general and improved the team. Especially AWB and Bruno Fernandes. James is young and has time to develop but is still more promising than what Mikhitaryan showed.
- Ole is playing the most exciting football we’ve seen since Fergie prime days. None of the previous managers achieved this. It was dreadful to watch. Ole has shown he can play beautiful while still getting results consistently and regularly winning big games. People forget in recent seasons it was a shock for us to win 2 or more games in a row before a defeat came round again.
- Ole has improved the performance of players massively compared to previous managers. Martial is playing his best football ever for us. Shaw is looking to get close back to his best. Pogba is looking closer to what we expected when we signed him. Rashford has improved and performing much more consistently. He’s brought Greenwood through and nurtured him into the team perfectly.
Given all Of the above, Ole has done a miles better job than the last 3 idiots we’ve had. He deserves some slack and defo more time! He is heading the club back in the right direction.
you can tell Ole wants the best for united regardless of whether he is manager for much longer or not. He just wants utd to do well going forward.
- He’s got rid of the obvious deadwood that everyone could see needed to go. (And looking get rid of more). For some reason the likes of Young, Fellani, Lingard were loved by previous managers even Though they were crap.
- All the signings from the previous managers were terrible signings and all failed (except for Martial). The signings Ole has brought in have been a success in general and improved the team. Especially AWB and Bruno Fernandes. James is young and has time to develop but is still more promising than what Mikhitaryan showed.
- Ole is playing the most exciting football we’ve seen since Fergie prime days. None of the previous managers achieved this. It was dreadful to watch. Ole has shown he can play beautiful while still getting results consistently and regularly winning big games. People forget in recent seasons it was a shock for us to win 2 or more games in a row before a defeat came round again.
- Ole has improved the performance of players massively compared to previous managers. Martial is playing his best football ever for us. Shaw is looking to get close back to his best. Pogba is looking closer to what we expected when we signed him. Rashford has improved and performing much more consistently. He’s brought Greenwood through and nurtured him into the team perfectly.
Given all Of the above, Ole has done a miles better job than the last 3 idiots we’ve had. He deserves some slack and defo more time! He is heading the club back in the right direction.
you can tell Ole wants the best for united regardless of whether he is manager for much longer or not. He just wants utd to do well going forward.
We currently are on the following run in the League: 7 wins and 4 Draws in the last 11.
Chances are - not big though, that we won't make top-4 if we finish the season with 9 wins and 5 Draws from the last 14. Which is an unbelievable form, add to that our current goal difference from those 11 matches is: 25-6
Of course it's important to look at the full season, but let's be realistic here - the first 9 matches ruined our season. After those 9 matches we have been the third best team by a mile. We had 10 points from our first 9 matches
After those 9 matches we were 7 points behind Leicester and Chelsea and even 5 behind Arsenal. We have had some poor spells afterwards as well, but those 9 matches ruined our season - as easy as that. So if you are only looking at results and ignore absolutely everything else - yeah you could fire the manager, but how smart it would be to fire a manager for something that happened in September when almost everything else afterwards have been positive - I am sure that is debatable
I personally would have faith in any manager who in 18 months managed to turn Mourinhos crap into what we see now. The guy has worked miracles considering where we was when he took over. For the first time in years - we can play Liverpool and City, and I feel we can almost match them player for player - and against any other English team, I feel we are superior.
Referring to the bolded parts;
1) Expecting trophies.
2) Zidane was an interim to Ancelotti. Did Madrid make a mistake letting Zidane take his position? My point is every good coach has been an interim first. I have seen many managers start in positions worse than Ole’s with barely a resume to back them up like Gary Neville going to Valencia and bottling it up in 3 months. Which is technically not even as long as Ole’s interim role with us was if I’m not wrong. The reason Ole has been given the support for so long is because he’s an interim worthy of proving he deserves the manager position. He has a great team around him guiding him and supporting him. Starting with SAF’s assistant and SAF himself behind the scenes. I’ve asked many other posters this as I’m curious to know who would you rather have take Ole’s position? While making sure he sticks to United’s way like Ole has. Which is more fundamental to me than anything else, having tried hiring prominent coaches who have already proven themselves. Most clubs suffer when they deviate away from their ideologies. Same reason why Lampard has been given a chance at Chelsea which by the way is a club that was notoriously well known for being a sacking club. It didn’t work. Same reason city laid the groundwork for years for Pep to arrive. Every club needs to stick to its roots and for now there’s nobody else available to replace Ole with, who’ll do it the united way.
3) This has never been Woodward’s United. He literally gave close to £1bn to the last 3 managers to try and bring us back to the top. It’s those managers that destroyed and delayed our return back to the top. Woodward is not to blame here.
Great post. Puts things into perspective. Those of us having trouble judging Ole based on merit since he lacks trophies, should know all young managers don’t have any yet. But it’s their ideas and philosophies that bring them the opportunities to earn some.
1) Agreed. But the way things have worked out since Ole came in, we now have a clear idea of who to bring in.
2) No offence but how on earth, do you as a united fan, not believe in identity???? Our whole club philosophy has been about our own identity and cultivating a never ending united way. Our entire success has been a result of it. The reason we kept SAF for so long was because of identity. He ensured we always did it our way.
Also - since you mentioned Mourinho being successful anywhere? Do you need reminding? You sound contradictory cuz he obviously wasn’t successful with us. The closest he got to winning the league was still 18 points from the top.
3) Moyes had a cult-like following because the situation then demanded it. He was picked by SAF and we had to trust his decision. I think your 3rd point is very subjective. It’s easy to say the manager is Demi-god and our club is there to serve him. That is the case at literally every club once someone is appointed. He’s trusted and backed until retained. That is the purpose no? And when it stops working out, you let him go. Now for instance, Ole is has the position. Fans like me, don’t just support him cuz he’s our golden boy or whatever some might call him. We could’ve hired Gary Neville, or Ryan Giggs or Steve Bruce too, just cuz they played for united and understand our way. The reason I continue to support him is because he has shown enough capability to be the right guy for us right now. I always ask posters, who would you rather replace him with?
As for your last point about Allegri. It’s not that he won’t do well just cuz the system above him is not right. That’s bollocks. He won’t do well only if he’s not right for us. As a manager, not having a DoF is usually better since it allows you more control. Mourinho fought with the board over this same exact thing. He didn’t get sacked cuz he wouldn’t have a DoF, he got sacked cuz he didn’t do well enough. It’s not like we hired a DoF as soon as we replaced him? Poch has been available since he got sacked from spurs, why haven’t we replaced Ole with him if not Allegri? Its because we our trying to go back to our own ‘ideology’ and we aren’t prepared to let another manager come in who again will try to do it his own way and leave us lost when he too, leaves. At least this time, if Ole doesn’t prove himself by the end of next season, we won’t be having to reboot our culture along with a new manager again.
Anyways it’s been pleasant debating with you. I understand statistics and results matter to you when reaching conclusions but with our club, those will never improve until our own ideology and culture align with our way forward. I’m hoping Ole collects some trophies so he can prove all this to you. It’ll then be interesting to see if you still have a tough time supporting him.
Even if we lose our three remaining games, Ole is not getting sacked.
1) We’ve had trophies through the other managers. That’s not enough
2) I’ll be honest I didn’t read it all 1 you said good coach and two Zidane took over Benitez
3) Coinciding with 2. Ed Woodward has no plan. Just giving up the money is not enough. Knowing when to hire and sack managers is also important and all of our managers under him have been sacked too late and given the wrong contracts.
I think this is a perfect opinion of what people with alternative views to above have to fight up against. Clearly points which aren’t true but I can understand why you feel this way and why you are giving Ole your full support.
Good read though.
If you think everyone who has a different opinion to yours is a cretin, than a public forum is probably not the place for you.One draw and the cretins are back out
Yes it did. He had everything to do with proving what he was capable of.
So if an academy player was picked to start on the first game of the season, you'd show them as much patience as you would to say Ronaldo if he came here at the start of the season?
I remember hearing the same about LvG and Jose and that Moyes "deserved" another transfer window.
And same old arguments. Poch, championship cv, etc. you name it
Common, don't they even get tired repeating the same shite that many times?
Have they stopped being true? The arguments against them are "we've played well since Bruno came so shut up". 1 + 1 hasn't stopped being 2 just because it got old.
What is true? Poch, championship cv, etc. ? Tell me what of those was ever true?
And hell no man, if you can read you can find a lot more than that Bruno stuff. Looot of posts just above. Of course only if you want to read.
Ole won't be sacked even if we lose all the matches left. For some "fans" it's actually more important for them to be right than the progress of the club. Or their love for Poch or Mou. Or they just hate Ole. Actually I feel just damn happy to think what you lot would feel right now
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