Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I really wish somebody would explain this fascination so many have with Pochettino, he's never won anything which was once important, and you could argue he's never Managed a big club. It's just weird.

I would actually prefer Tuchel and Nagelsmann simply due to their style of football being more exciting. If we can get them that is better.
But currently we need someone that can make our team atleast a consistent top 4 team and has a style which is still applicable in modern football. I have no stomach for watching defence first counterattacking football.

 

[Class of 63]

To hell with winning league, we need to first finish consistently in top 3 before thinking about winning the league. Poch is perfect in that sense. But no Poch has never won a trophy so we persist with a noob as manager.

Why is he perfect? Some players can't hack Old Trafford, some Managers too, even Mourinho and LvG were taken aback at the size of the club and when you consider some of the clubs they've Managed it says a lot, what's to say Pochettino won't be swamped by the size of the place and crack under the pressure.

It would be a massive gamble, some times it's better the devil you know.

 

[midnightmare]

He didn't tanked at every club that wasn't semi amateur level which is far more then Ole did. Seriously the guy had improved every club he was in often with little budget at his disposal

Arguable; at Soton, the manager just before and the one just after had better records than Poch.

I'm not in the "Ole in" camp at all. To me, Ole seems to be a good coach of individuals who is struggling to make them mesh in a good enough system. That's the only way I can explain how anyone realistic will admit that individual players from Rashford and Fred to McTominay and Lindelof have improved - but that collectively, we've been poor. Where I lose track of this discussion and get disconnected from both sides is the refusal to admit any point the other side may have. I don't see how people can deny that he's improved players. At the same time, I don't understand how people can say he's got them working well as a team!

On Poch - I don't have him as my first choice to replace Ole, to be honest.

And yes - while I am quite sure Ole is not the man to lead us to glory, I will never have been happier than I'll be if (somehow, against all my expectations and conviction) he proves me wrong.

 

[Joseunited]

I would actually prefer Tuchel and Nagelsmann simply due to their style of football being more exciting. If we can get them that is better.
But currently we need someone that can make our team atleast a consistent top 4 team and has a style which is still applicable in modern football. I have no stomach for watching defence first counterattacking football.

Let's steer clear of the Wolves manager then, I can't stand watching them.

 

[Kurton]

Why is he perfect? Some players can't hack Old Trafford, some Managers too, even Mourinho and LvG were taken aback at the size of the club and when you consider some of the clubs they've Managed it says a lot, what's to say Pochettino won't be swamped by the size of the place and crack under the pressure.

It would be a massive gamble, some times it's better the devil you know.

Not as massive gamble as give the job to someone like Ole with virtually no experience in Premier league and only having coached in some third rate league. Poch has managed in pl for several years and done well and out squad quality is quite similar to Spurs. And the previous managers you mentioned have done much better and won trophies with us. Utd are now like bad case of inbreeding with all these people formerly worked at the club causing disabilities. We need fresh ideas, and Poch is as safe a bet as we can get.

 

[Wolfmother]

Who cares about a club in a tin pot league?

Should we appoint managers that did well in Albania and Lichtenstein too?

What are his qualifications managing a top side in a top league over the last 10 years of his career?

Probably the same reason Gatusso is at Napoli. Or Zidane at Real. The same reason Lampard is at Chelsea. Or even Arteta at Arsenal.
The clubs know the manager, and the manager knows the club. More important, they have actual football parameters and knowledge, not those of a shortsighted football fan like yourself.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Pochettino has the strength of Premier League experience and finishing high in it, but he hasn’t won trophies.

Tuchel has won things in Germany and France (albeit winning domestic trophies with PSG isnt the hardest challenge). However he has a history of falling out with club hierarchy and demands total control like a certain Portuguese guy we once had... and he doesn’t have experience in the PL.

Nagelsmann would be an exciting choice on paper. Plays exciting football with modest budget compared to rivals... but he hasn’t won anything, no PL experience and there’s always a chance he could be a flash in the pan. I remember when Paul Le Guen was meant to be the next Wenger and how Andres Villas-Boas was going to dominate Europe... but where are they now?

 

[Enigma_87]

Probably the same reason Gatusso is at Napoli. Or Zidane at Real. The same reason Lampard is at Chelsea. Or even Arteta at Arsenal.
The clubs know the manager, and the manager knows the club. Most important of all, they have actual football parameters and knowledge, not those of a shortsighted football fan like yourself.

Yeah Gattuso at Milan worked wonders for them.
Arteta for Arsenal also looks like a phenomenal success

Zidane didn’t manage some side in Scandinavia for 10 years and relegate a Spanish side before being given the job at Real, did he?

 

[Wolfmother]

Yeah Gattuso at Milan worked wonders for them.
Arteta for Arsenal also looks like a phenomenal success

Zidane didn’t manage some side in Scandinavia for 10 years and relegate a Spanish side before being given the job at Real, did he?

No. He managed a massive talented side in secunda B and failed to take them up. But the players loved to work with him. Just like players do under Ole.
You really should get out more, learn to have some patience. Maybe even develop some humility. Being a young angry man on a football forum isn’t the best of qualifications, but acknowledging there are actually people out there who know better than you does take you a long way.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I really wish somebody would explain this fascination so many have with Pochettino, he's never won anything which was once important, and you could argue he's never Managed a big club. It's just weird.

The day of last years CL final if Poch was offered to us as manager would you have taken him? I think 80% of the forum would. Yes it broke down for him in the end but that doesn't mean he all of a sudden became a bad manager. Working with Levy it was bound to break down, especially with the new stadium being built with not a lot of transfer funds and their players getting paid a lot less than at other clubs. It just reached the point of no return.

I've been following Poch since his Espanyol days and he punched well above his weight there even though he got sacked in the end. Once again it was similar circumstances to Spurs where Espanyol were building a new stadium, selling their best players and bringing in cheaper options. People will say why would we want a manager who's been sacked twice? That's a fair question but they need to understand it wasn't because he is a bad manager and I think he's proved that he is capable of taking over a team and elevating them to the next level. One thing we haven't tried since SAF retired is hiring a young, progressive thinking modern manager and Poch falls nicely into this category.

But a word of advice to him. Don't go to a job where they're thinking of building a new stadium

 

[Enigma_87]

No. He managed a massive talented side in secunda B and failed to take them up. But the players loved to work with him. Just like players do under Ole.
You really should get out more, learn to have some patience. Maybe even develop some humility. Being a young angry man on a football forum isn’t the best of qualifications, but acknowledging there are actually people out there who know better than you does take you a long way.

There is absolutely no correlation between Zidane and Ole - the clubs they managed, the squads they took over and so on. However some blind Ole supporters like you, not United supporters, can’t bother to see that.
I’m far from angry, well past that point with Ole. However, just like Moyes I’ll always call out a crap manager when I see one and Ole is worst of the bunch.

 

[Enigma_87]

No. He managed a massive talented side in secunda B and failed to take them up. But the players loved to work with him. Just like players do under Ole.
You really should get out more, learn to have some patience. Maybe even develop some humility. Being a young angry man on a football forum isn’t the best of qualifications, but acknowledging there are actually people out there who know better than you does take you a long way.

Can ask the same about some with Ole apart from being a former player. He has the same credentials as the current Molde manager that won them the title.

 

[Jeffthered]

No. He managed a massive talented side in secunda B and failed to take them up. But the players loved to work with him. Just like players do under Ole.
You really should get out more, learn to have some patience. Maybe even develop some humility. Being a young angry man on a football forum isn’t the best of qualifications, but acknowledging there are actually people out there who know better than you does take you a long way.

And the evidence of this is?

Performances?

Attracting players to club?

Improving players?

Retaining players?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

No. He managed a massive talented side in secunda B and failed to take them up. But the players loved to work with him. Just like players do under Ole.
You really should get out more, learn to have some patience. Maybe even develop some humility. Being a young angry man on a football forum isn’t the best of qualifications, but acknowledging there are actually people out there who know better than you does take you a long way.

I find it incredible that Ole in crowd keep comparing Ole with proven winners. If Pep or Zidane in their first season finished as Ole did last season they would of been out the door. Spurs and Arsenal were hovering around the same position as us when they got rid of their managers. I'm sure if Arsenal don't drastically pick up Arteta will be out the door come the end of the season. Valverde after all he won at Barca out the door. How many managers have Madrid or Bayern shown the door after winning titles? Even Chelski? The list is endless but the biggest difference between us and them is they have standards. Ours have fallen so low that people are now thinking that 6th place is some sort of achievement.

 

[L1nk]

Feel free to name-drop anybody on the forum that has suggested that, or anything remotely similar, nope didn't think so.

Ok

Class of 63, you clearly have a defiant attitude problem with defending Ole and nobody defending Ole can provide facts or statistical evidence as to why he's the messiah, so...

Perhaps you should look in the Solskjaer threads, they are everywhere, but then again you're obviously used to having your head buried in the sand whilst making yourself sound superior to everyone else with little reason.

 

[90 + 5min]

Yeah Gattuso at Milan worked wonders for them.
Arteta for Arsenal also looks like a phenomenal success

Zidane didn’t manage some side in Scandinavia for 10 years and relegate a Spanish side before being given the job at Real, did he?

Zidane managed a team that would be equal to League Two before taking over Real Madrid. Still he didn't do that bad, in Champions League.

There is absolutely no correlation between Zidane and Ole - the clubs they managed, the squads they took over and so on. However some blind Ole supporters like you, not United supporters, can’t bother to see that.
I’m far from angry, well past that point with Ole. However, just like Moyes I’ll always call out a crap manager when I see one and Ole is worst of the bunch.

Same old, same old. Hate and I'm better supporter than you because I want Solskajer gone".

Can ask the same about some with Ole apart from being a former player. He has the same credentials as the current Molde manager that won them the title.

As you also can say that Pochettino or more then half of the elite managers has exaclty same amount trophies as you and me. There goes that credentials talk.

 

[Anustart89]

Even the Ole in brigade will be running out of excuses if 5th place get ucl football and Ole still messes up not getting champions league football.

No but you don't get it. 6th was always the target, even if we get it with 43 points.

 

[711]

Yeah Gattuso at Milan worked wonders for them.
Arteta for Arsenal also looks like a phenomenal success

Zidane didn’t manage some side in Scandinavia for 10 years and relegate a Spanish side before being given the job at Real, did he?

I can't help thinking that judging Arteta after 9 weeks might be a tad too early.

 

[Toni Roncoroni]

So the Ole-fanboys want us to be patient and give him as much time as he wants.
On the other side they are judging Poch for his last few months when before he transformed Tottenham? If you guys would look at Ole the same he would be long gone.
No way compring Ole to Poch. They are miles apart as coach or manager.

 

[Enigma_87]

I can't help thinking that judging Arteta after 9 weeks might be a tad too early.

Hence not appropriate example he used. I’m not sure why he even mentioned Arteta in the first place.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Those supporting Ole still- if 5th gets Champions League & we still fail should he be sacked?

 

[Enigma_87]

Zidane managed a team that would be equal to League Two before taking over Real Madrid. Still he didn't do that bad, in Champions League.


Same old, same old. Hate and I'm better supporter than you because I want Solskajer gone".


As you also can say that Pochettino or more then half of the elite managers has exaclty same amount trophies as you and me. There goes that credentials talk.

Zidane want a manager for 10 years in some obscure league, neither he was a failure in lower La Liga side before taking over Real.

how many managers did Barca change after Pep?

you can go on and discredit Poch all you want but the truth is his credentials beat the shit out of Ole’s.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Zidane managed a team that would be equal to League Two before taking over Real Madrid. Still he didn't do that bad, in Champions League.

The difference with Zidane is Zidane took over in January and finished 1 point behind barça in the league and the small matter of him winning the CL.

In his first full season he did the double winning la liga and CL.

How is this relevant to what Ole is doing?

 

[Leftback99]

Those supporting Ole still- if 5th gets Champions League & we still fail should he be sacked?

I expected 6th pre season so I'll judge him on that at the end. Spurs are favourites for 5th.

 

[hubbuh]

Those supporting Ole still- if 5th gets Champions League & we still fail should he be sacked?

If anyone thinks us stumbling to the CL is a convincing enough argument for us to keep Ole then they’re dead wrong. Winning the FA Cup wasn’t enough to save van Gaal as it was patently obvious to anyone watching that the football was dreadful with no signs of improving. We need to formulate a genuine footballing identity beyond vague and generic terms like ‘high energy’ (which we still aren’t seeing) and attacking football (which we also aren’t really seeing). I’m sure it goes beyond what Ole says in pressers but it’s hard to see much of anything on the pitch.

 

[Gehrman]

Getting players fit and getting players with quality will improve.


Give me a break. What is next? Solskjaer is for war in world because he don't give any statement that he is against it? That he is for poverty and hunger because he don't give any statement?

If Moyes was in Solskjaer position I would still think he need time. But Moyes was in lot better position when he came. You can't even compare that.


So you think it is our manager fault that we chased lot of attackers but couldn't finnish any deals?

Pogba never wanted to come to Manchester. And he wants out as soon as he can. Nothing to do with any manager. I was against buying him back because he and his agent showed how much they cared when Fergie put his foot down and he left for Juventus.

While I don't know the exactly thoughts our coaching team had I believe that putting Dalot and Lingard gave us fresh legs. Mata and James played a lot and we needed more energy. Yes, there is maybe hard to understand why putting on more defensive player and one that is far from any kind of form but we don't have players (injuries /thin squad) that we could use as great subs that game.


Still missing the point. I'll try to explain again.
Poster said something about how Solskjaer didn't have anything to show for him getting ManUtd job. While I agree that he wasn't the best guy, he got the job. Then people say that we should hire Pochettino to win titles. I said, what has he won that show he would be taking titles to Old Trafford when he won zero titles as a manager. That was my reply to what has Solskajer done. Then I said that what they have done in past is not messure what they can achive in ManUtd. Solskjaer or Pochettino or whoever maybe goes on winning streak desite not winning in previous clubs (Although Solskjaer got league titles)

In general nobody expects you to win the title or the CL when you manage Spurs or Southampton. He does however have a very record of overachieving with the budget at his disposal. I guess a FA Cup could be lacking, but there is a reason why Poch is highly rated as a manager and rated much higher than Solskjær. I don't think he'll come in and be our Saf, but I think of all the avaible candidates atm he is the best one.

 

[Mainoldo]

Pochettino has the strength of Premier League experience and finishing high in it, but he hasn’t won trophies.

Tuchel has won things in Germany and France (albeit winning domestic trophies with PSG isnt the hardest challenge). However he has a history of falling out with club hierarchy and demands total control like a certain Portuguese guy we once had... and he doesn’t have experience in the PL.

Nagelsmann would be an exciting choice on paper. Plays exciting football with modest budget compared to rivals... but he hasn’t won anything, no PL experience and there’s always a chance he could be a flash in the pan. I remember when Paul Le Guen was meant to be the next Wenger and how Andres Villas-Boas was going to dominate Europe... but where are they now?

So who you backing? I suppose we have to release all managers come with faults. I more see it as who’s best fit for the current core players we have.

 

[Gehrman]

Ole In: “He got rid of the deadwood”.
Anyone thinking straight: “ and then spent £200m and made United even worse “

Conte seems to be doing well with our deadwood.

 

[RedorDead21]

You dont have to drop to the relegation fodder to start rebuilding. Ole was suppose to rebuild from the 6th position and progress to higher positions not plummet us to 10th.
Also I can't argue about Lingard or Pereira but when Mou was around he actually transformed Lingard into a somehow desent player (just look at his stats when we got 2nd place). That's what great coaches do. That's what Klopp did with Henderson.

Ole is getting better stats out of Rashers though...and his signings look a marked improvement over Mous....we’ve had injury and injury and all I want is for Ole to have our best team out again this season to see how it performs.

 

[Chairman Steve]

So who you backing? I suppose we have to release all managers come with faults. I more see it as who’s best fit for the current core players we have.

Leaning towards Poch at the moment, then Nagelsmann and then Tuchel.


But I‘d have any of those three over OGS.

 

[RedorDead21]

Conte seems to be doing well with our deadwood.

Everyone wanted them outta here Let’s not start beating Ole for that. Their attitude and ability started to stink out the place for the money they were on. Smelling for instance had a decade here and if he’s performing well in Italy, shows the gap between the leagues.

 

[peridigm]

Conte seems to be doing well with our deadwood.

Let’s hope he takes more. Lingard, Pereira, Jones....

 

[Gehrman]

I really wish somebody would explain this fascination so many have with Pochettino, he's never won anything which was once important, and you could argue he's never Managed a big club. It's just weird.

Then try at compare Ole and Poch record in the PL.

 

[Stadjer]

I think the argument ''Poch hasnt won anything!'' is such a ridiculous easy argument.

While it is true that he hasnt won anything, getting to the CL final and challenging for the title with a Spurs team he build up over the years is, in my opinion, more impressive than winning a title. Put Poch in charge of PSG, Juventus, Bayern or Manchester City and he will win things and the whole argument of not winning titles is gone. He isnt any worse than any of those managers but he didnt have the luck to be hired by one of those teams (yet). Sarri never won anything before he won the FA cup with Chelsea. Was he the moment he won that cup a better manager? I doubt it. Would Juventus not have hired him if he lost that game?

Winning a title doesnt somehow make you a better manager, i think 'the journey' is more important to show your qualities as a manager than to win the very last game. Especially in a sport like football where the best doesnt always win the game. Ofcourse you want to win a title in the end but if you keep getting to the final you will most likely eventually win one. Klopp for example lost multiple CL finals, it didnt make him a worse manage and now he is CL winning manager.

 

[Mainoldo]

No. He managed a massive talented side in secunda B and failed to take them up. But the players loved to work with him. Just like players do under Ole.
You really should get out more, learn to have some patience. Maybe even develop some humility. Being a young angry man on a football forum isn’t the best of qualifications, but acknowledging there are actually people out there who know better than you does take you a long way.

I wonder if Zidane stays in a job if he performed like Ole this season?

Just a thought.

 

[Gehrman]

Arguable; at Soton, the manager just before and the one just after had better records than Poch.

I'm not in the "Ole in" camp at all. To me, Ole seems to be a good coach of individuals who is struggling to make them mesh in a good enough system. That's the only way I can explain how anyone realistic will admit that individual players from Rashford and Fred to McTominay and Lindelof have improved - but that collectively, we've been poor. Where I lose track of this discussion and get disconnected from both sides is the refusal to admit any point the other side may have. I don't see how people can deny that he's improved players. At the same time, I don't understand how people can say he's got them working well as a team!

On Poch - I don't have him as my first choice to replace Ole, to be honest.

And yes - while I am quite sure Ole is not the man to lead us to glory, I will never have been happier than I'll be if (somehow, against all my expectations and conviction) he proves me wrong.

Poch had Southampton in their highest point tally since the inception of the PL, so I'm wondering what the southampton guy before him did to have better record?

 

[devilish]

Arguable; at Soton, the manager just before and the one just after had better records than Poch.

I'm not in the "Ole in" camp at all. To me, Ole seems to be a good coach of individuals who is struggling to make them mesh in a good enough system. That's the only way I can explain how anyone realistic will admit that individual players from Rashford and Fred to McTominay and Lindelof have improved - but that collectively, we've been poor. Where I lose track of this discussion and get disconnected from both sides is the refusal to admit any point the other side may have. I don't see how people can deny that he's improved players. At the same time, I don't understand how people can say he's got them working well as a team!

On Poch - I don't have him as my first choice to replace Ole, to be honest.

And yes - while I am quite sure Ole is not the man to lead us to glory, I will never have been happier than I'll be if (somehow, against all my expectations and conviction) he proves me wrong.

In his first season at Southampton Pochs lead them to 8th place which was the highest league position for them since 2002-2003. He did so with the highest points tally since 1992-1993. I have my share of concerns about him as well. His narrow systems will piss off many fans at United + he doesn't seem keen to work with DOFs. However he's a far better manager then Ole is.

 

[Gehrman]

I can't understand people are comparing the similarities of Zidane and Ole. Even as player legends Zidane is in a different stratosphere. Zidane is the coolest mofo in football. Solskjær was our super sub who scored the most important winner in our history, but I'm pretty sure the attraction of Zidane is miles ahead of Ole.

But anyway as managers, Zidane together with Pep has the best start of a mangerial career ever. Ole has managed for 10 years and has, if results on the pitch matter, failed in the 2 PL jobs he's been.


Im from Denmark, people would be lauging their asses off if I suggested that the record holder of Danish league titles should manage Man Utd..

 

[90 + 5min]

Zidane want a manager for 10 years in some obscure league, neither he was a failure in lower La Liga side before taking over Real.

how many managers did Barca change after Pep?

you can go on and discredit Poch all you want but the truth is his credentials beat the shit out of Ole’s.

So? Still he had no manager experience and still got job. Therefore, people talking about "what has Solskjaer done before" should look at those examples and see that you don't need to have CV full of titles to make something at a big club.

I'm not discrediting Pochettino. I like him. And he is good manager. But people are making it like he is some kind of manager demon. At least we should wait until he has won something. Anything.

The difference with Zidane is Zidane took over in January and finished 1 point behind barça in the league and the small matter of him winning the CL.

In his first full season he did the double winning la liga and CL.

How is this relevant to what Ole is doing?

Relevant, because of discussion "what has Solskjaer done". Before ManUtd.

In general nobody expects you to win the title or the CL when you manage Spurs or Southampton. He does however have a very record of overachieving with the budget at his disposal. I guess a FA Cup could be lacking, but there is a reason why Poch is highly rated as a manager and rated much higher than Solskjær. I don't think he'll come in and be our Saf, but I think of all the avaible candidates atm he is the best one.

He overachived with Southampton. He did absolutly nothing in Espanyol and left them in relegation. With Tottenham, he did improve them, but that improvement was not that big looking at Tottenham before him. So overachiving is a strong word. I would say slightly improved.

I think the argument ''Poch hasnt won anything!'' is such a ridiculous easy argument.

While it is true that he hasnt won anything, getting to the CL final and challenging for the title with a Spurs team he build up over the years is, in my opinion, more impressive than winning a title. Put Poch in charge of PSG, Juventus, Bayern or Manchester City and he will win things and the whole argument of not winning titles is gone. He isnt any worse than any of those managers but he didnt have the luck to be hired by one of those teams (yet). Sarri never won anything before he won the FA cup with Chelsea. Was he the moment he won that cup a better manager? I doubt it. Would Juventus not have hired him if he lost that game?

Winning a title doesnt somehow make you a better manager, i think 'the journey' is more important to show your qualities as a manager than to win the very last game. Especially in a sport like football where the best doesnt always win the game. Ofcourse you want to win a title in the end but if you keep getting to the final you will most likely eventually win one. Klopp for example lost multiple CL finals, it didnt make him a worse manage and now he is CL winning manager.

Put anyone, including me and you in PSG or Bayern and they would win. Those leagues are finished before they even starts.

I agree that winning doen't neccessery makes you better coach. You can be great coach in low teams. And you can be bad coach in great teams. There is element of luck where destiny takes you. But in football, titles count.

 

[Gehrman]

So? Still he had no manager experience and still got job. Therefore, people talking about "what has Solskjaer done before" should look at those examples and see that you don't need to have CV full of titles to make something at a big club.

I'm not discrediting Pochettino. I like him. And he is good manager. But people are making it like he is some kind of manager demon. At least we should wait until he has won something. Anything.


Relevant, because of discussion "what has Solskjaer done". Before ManUtd.


He overachived with Southampton. He did absolutly nothing in Espanyol and left them in relegation. With Tottenham, he did improve them, but that improvement was not that big looking at Tottenham before him. So overachiving is a strong word. I would say slightly improved.


Put anyone, including me and you in PSG or Bayern and they would win. Those leagues are finished before they even starts.

I agree that winning doen't neccessery makes you better coach. You can be great coach in low teams. And you can be bad coach in great teams. There is element of luck where destiny takes you. But in football, titles count.

I'm sorry but people were saying the same thing about us. That we were too big too fail. Yet LVG and José failed to to consistently deliver the bare minmim which was top 4 despite spending massively in transfers and wages. In general Poch outperformed them in the league with a netspend of 15 mil pr season.

I'm not saying that Poch is the man to knock Klopp or Pep of their perches, but the general consensus is that we don't old defensive managers who are past it, but want young managers in the prime years with a record of overachieving and playing good football. Managers like Poch and Nagelsmann fit in that box.