The most successful club in the world does exactly that
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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The most successful club in the world does exactly that
That's not Poch, That's David Hasselhoff.Yea he was saying on his podcast that Poch's people have been in touch with the club and believe they can convince the Glazers.
Probably been the most positive piece of news regarding the clubs future that we've had in months, it'd be a no brainer binning Ole for a Premier league proven manager who's known for developing talent and overachieving on a budget.
Sir Alex would give him his blessing as well as he's been a fan and mentor of his for years now
Well just consider that the only Moyes signing left signed a new contract under Ole, the LVG signings (Shaw, Martial) have got new contracts, Herrera he wanted to keep. Rojo & Darmian I’ll give you but that’s 2 not massively paid players.
But every new manager takes over a squad with 6 years of players in it, what’s special about Ole’s position, there’s nothing unique about it.
Klopp had Rodgers players, Dalglish players, Woy players etc. And did Conte just inherit a squad of players from the last manager @Bobcat?
Lampard has a mish mash of how many managers players??
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He did, he brought in Micky Phelan, not sure where he puts the cameras, probably best not to know
Phelan is a classic example of Sir Alex's recruitment at top level. Prior in joining us as assistant with the United reserves he was assistant at Norwich, Blackpool and Stockport. He initially took a job with the reserves were he stayed there for 3 years then he was promoted as first team coach were he spent years there and then he became Sir Alex assistant. That's a hell more experience then Carrick and Mckenna. However Phelan is primarly a Sir Alex's accolade, same as Ole and Carrick. We need experienced people who can think outside of that mindset and challenge the 'estabilished' idea like Queroz, Mclaren and Rene did.
Ironically we already have this guy at the club. Marcel Bout worked as a head training coach, youth team coach and recovery trainer at Feyenoord (1995-2004) and assistant coach, head of youth and chief scout at Volendam (2004-2006). He was the youth team manager at Alkmaar from 2007-2009, the head coach at Telstar senior team and he was LVG's no 2 at Bayern. The guy also worked with Jupp Heynkes as chief match analyst at the club and he was Holland's U21 assistant coach, technical analyst and scout. He came to United under LVG's revolution and he was employed to be our assistant coach specialising in opposition scouting.
Unfortunately someone with such experience is being utilised away from the training grounds (as head of global scouting) while there are persistent rumours within the United camp that Phelan's role is more of a DOF then that of an assistant manager. Which kind of explains why we never hired a DOF. If true then we're back to Ole, Carrick and Mckenna doing the coaching.
Well said mate. It’s mind numbing the lengths Ole’s fan boys go to support Ole even if it’s to the detriment of the club. The state of that post.
And that wasn't my point either. Every manager since Fergie has had to handle very difficult circumstances, the team Moyes inherited won the league, but most of them where at the very ends of their careers so the whole "rebuild" thing should have started back then, but for various reasons we have not handled this transition and we have been in rebuild mode in 6, soon to be 7 seasons now.
My point is that us ending up with the second highest wage bill in the league and this much deadwood, did not happen overnight. If Poch manages us next season my stance wont change. We have some serious work to do and he will need at least 2 seasons to turn this rabble into a serious contenders
Not necessarily, that's just how you chose to interpret it, it was a bit OTT not denying that, but the 2nd paragraph suggest otherwise.
Or maybe that's just how I interpreted it
Solskjaer is one of the many problems ailing United. If he was gutsy enough to do a self assessment and accept his inability to do the job, lot of things would be easier. In the real world meanwhile, his legacy as player will also be tarnished by the time he prolongs this and makes the atmosphere very toxic.
Nagelsmann isnt going to come here, he literally just joined RB Leipzig.
Hit us with some names then.
I have my reservations with Pochs, mainly his resistance to work with a DOF and his obsession in not using wingers. However similarly to Allegri, Pochs is what United needed when Mou left. These are people who can overachieve with an imperfect squad. They have experience in stabilising the team's performance, they can work on limited budgets and they will be careful in their rebuilding process not to allow United to drift so far away because of the many changes made. I think no United fan expect us to challenge for the big honours for the next 2-3-4 years. At this point our aim is to stop the rot and to build the foundations. Allegri and Pochs know how to do that having done it before. Ole does not.
Gutsy? Are you being sponsored to talk crap? A few weeks ago we were in touching distance of T4, and it's still a possibility, in the semi-final of the League Cup, and still in the FA Cup and Europa League, a few dodgy results later and he's got to accept he's not up to the job, do me a favour.
I am not sponsored to talk out of my arse like cultists. The dodgy results started right after the PSG game and his unfortunate permanent appointment, not recently. The end of the last season pretty much showed what is his actual calibre as a manager.
I cannot be further arsed to waste my time as to why he should be sacked immediately. That has been argued on here a million times. What I had hoped from Solskjaer is a tiny bit of honesty. But he chose to stick to stealing a living from the club. I have no regard for him whatsoever anymore. If you do, good for you. Enjoy it.
I cannot be further arsed to waste my time as to why he should be sacked immediately. That has been argued on here a million times. What I had hoped from Solskjaer is a tiny bit of honesty. But he chose to stick to stealing a living from the club. I have no regard for him whatsoever anymore. If you do, good for you. Enjoy it.
This is by far the most stupid logic I have read this year.
Overachieving with mid table team is equivalent of underachieving with top4 team? What? So doing better with worse team is the same as doing worse with better team? So if you already proved that you can do miracles with mid table team, you have the same qualification as manager like Ole who is breaking all negative records with top4 team? So every manager that failed in the past with top4 team is at the same level as Poche who played in Champions League final with Spurs with net spent around zero? I actually cant stop laughing, this is so stupid I cant believe you mean it. I am reading it over and over and I actually believe that I misunderstood it, but I cant figure it out.
If you prove yourself in smaller club, it is a natural path to go to a bigger club, exactly like Klopp did with Mainz, BVB and he is now king of the football world with Liverpool.
Btw your claim that we have slightly bigger budget is completly untrue.
Feels like you've completely re written the whole situation. Even a few weeks ago, there was little doubt in most people's minds that Ole isn't up to task. If were get top 4 this season it's going to be because somebody else has been equally as horrid as us. Probably the team that hasn't spent money in over a year, having lost their best player.
Considering what we have achieved over the past seven seasons I'd take what Pochettino achieved at Spurs within a heartbeat. If he can come in get rid of the loafers, improve our young talent and consistently achieve top 4 then that will put us in a strong position both financially and squad wise to take the next step with a new guy if he can't. We can't look down on consistent top four finishes when we have managed to achieve it in just two seasons out of seven.
In here and on less reputable forums maybe, but not in the real world
And if we sneak into T4 only because others have under performed, who cares?
I get that you want what's good for the club, but is wishing our own manager to get the sack, really what's best for the club? Isn't that what we'd both be guilty of, so by your own admission you're not a United fan either? To want him gone and openly so too, surely that's the same as wanting Ole to go? You ultimately are looking for him to not succeed so he can go so Poch can come in, I could be wrong but that's what it looks like.
I want the club to do well and am willing to have the patience to let Ole do what he has to do to get there, nothing will change in just over a year. Not for the large rebuild that Ole has to do. He has to change so much and change the mentality of the players from within the club.
I've never seen something so toxic in all my life supporting man utd, the polarising appointment of Ole, the mix between the fans who supported MUFC during the SAF successful years to the ones who supported them prior.
I do think that too many fans are used to winning. I do think that not many fans have the patience to just wait for things to progress, Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.
The love in for Poch is disgusting at this place. People are so sure that he'll bring a magic wand and change things for the better, but there's no guarantee that that will happen. None whatsoever, then will the same people who are clamoring for the Poch appointment ask for patience? Like the ones asking Ole for patience? Will the roles change? Is he really that much more experienced than Ole, has he won anything? He got through to the final of the UCL by luck, got 2nd place in the Prem and then lost the dressing room. Is no one asking why after his most successful season as a manager, he got the sack? Why results turned to S**T? Why he lost the dressing room? Or are we going to gloss all over that because he's Poch?
Looking at the passionate clamour for Poch to become manager, I'm sure that many of the Poch fans will ask for patience. Which would be very hypocritical, as the Ole In Fans, the ones willing to support the manager and thus the club by proxy are doing just now. Willing to be patient. I'd have given Moyes more time!
It's disgusting why so many fans are willing to be so open about wanting Poch to come in and wave his magic wand. Support the club!
I support the club and am willing to see Ole do his thing, even if we go through a rough patch, which we currently are. Nothing is ever easy and sure results aren't great at the moment, but deadwood is getting cleared out, the right players are being brought in. It takes time to undo all the things that went wrong over the past 7 years.
Not necessarily, that's just how you chose to interpret it, it was a bit OTT not denying that, but the 2nd paragraph suggest otherwise.
Or maybe that's just how I interpreted it
Exactly, I just want what's best for the club and will support it through both thick and thin.
Sounds like our current manager.....
MCT - Improved
Fred - Imrpoved
Rashford - Improved
Williams - Promoted
What else do Poch fans actually want?!
We got everything that your clamouring for right here!
The squad's thin and inconsistent, no manager who comes in would do any better than Ole with the current squad.
Say Poch did come in and he was left with the dire state the squads in and he had to deal with the same injuries that Ole's team has had. He wouldn't do much better!
Yea, I listened to his podcast. He's been saying for a while that Pochettino wants to come and Pochettino's interview yesterday would have only confirmed things.
What?!
By your logic, I pity those poor fools who are doing a good job managing the smaller clubs, because they can never translate those achievements to a bigger club. Doesn't most successful managers come from managing smaller clubs??
The assumption that Poch can achieve more with a bigger budget > The assumption that club legend Ole can bring us trophies
Great post that mate, and don't let anybody tell you different.
What?
In your own words that I'm "wishing for the sack" of our current manager is because of my love for the club, not despite of it. I do not want to see my club continue falling just because of romanticism and dithering. I see a manager who is currently underperforming and out of depth, then I would call for the sack, regardless of whether he is a club legend, a gentleman or Gal Gadot. Same goes to Pochettino when and if he gets to manage the club in the future. If Poch fails, we would call for the sack as well. There is no "love-in" for Poch. There's just simple logic. Ole is failing > Poch is available > Poch is vastly more experienced in the PL > Replace Ole with Poch.
If you think Poch is not a good coach, then that's for another discussion. IMO, Poch's football is very easy on the eyes and utilizes youth well and he's the most available candidate thus far. It's a no brainer for me. Not a "love-in".
Maybe it wasn't worded very well, but my point is that he may work better with a smaller budget, taking mid table clubs into top 4, but not necessarily with a big club. There is no evidence that he would do better with more money. N'dombele is his biggest signing and seems underwhelming. Nothing against managers at smaller clubs, but there is a reason why many of them stay at that level forever.What?!
By your logic, I pity those poor fools who are doing a good job managing the smaller clubs, because they can never translate those achievements to a bigger club. Doesn't most successful managers come from managing smaller clubs??
Maybe, maybe not, depends on how well we sell it to him I suppose. We missed out on both Klopp and Pep because of bad timing, we actually had the idea to hire them and even made contact, but we were already committed to someone at the time. My point is that I'd be okay with Poch, but not if it prevents us going after someone like Nagelsmann in the next 2-3 years.
You left out the results bit and do you remember who left us with a thin and inconsistent squad? I'd argue that a lot of managers would do better than Ole because they wouldn't leave themselves so short to begin with and wouldn't persist with shit like Lingard either.
McT - naturally progressed with age.
Fred - should be given more time to see his actual improvement, before declaring he's the next best thing. Matic for one have been better in many games even though 90% want him out
Rashford - ran into the ground and injured due to being overplayed. He also posted similar numbers like last year so improvement is a bit of a stretch, the difference is that he takes the penos this year to boost his numbers.
Williams - can give you that.
On the flip side
Martial - regressed
his own signings - regressed, especially James who started very brightly but again is overplayed.
Gomes/Garner given zero chances, keep playing Lingard and Pereira despite being shite.
Squad being thin - again on him. 200m pounds spent over 6 months - surely could've filled more holes in the squad.
Deciding to get rid of senior players without replacement - again on him.
The bolded part is utter bollocks. We have been underperforming against very inferior teams and losing home and away.
Fact is - the team and club as a whole regressed from 6th position last year, despite spending ton of money in the Summer.
If you go with natural progression then you can say that about any player. No manager should get credit for improving any young player.
Also Rashford never posted numbers like this, this is his best goal scoring season. He was involved in around 25 goals in half a season.
I mean it's ok to think manager is out of his depth and give credit for very few good things he has done.
So many are terrible at this. Being over the top and never giving any praise just weakens your argument. If you're not able to look at things in a rational balanced manner, you just end up looking completely blinded and unable to be fair.
Yeah I think those who refuse to give Ole credit for the good things he's done are as bad as those who blindly follow him and ignore all the bad things he's done. He's clearly been a positive influence on the likes of Rashford and Fred.
I'm not even sure why they need to try dismiss these things either. There's plenty out there that proves he's not up to the task without doing it!
I'm not even sure why they need to try dismiss these things either. There's plenty out there that proves he's not up to the task without doing it!
Exactly. I mean you already have plenty to argue against Ole, biggest of them being results and lack of good playing style. Why to twist everything and end up looking like agenda driven poster.
For all his faults, Ole has done well when it comes to making space for young players, that doesn't mean he has given or should give chances to every young player. From squad rotation roles and back up roles he has promoted players like Rashford, McTominay to undisputed starters which helped their development. He gave chances to Greenwood, Williams and also players like Garner, Chong played decent number of mins, especially Garner for his age and his physicality. People have unrealistic demands when it comes to young players.
Overall his time at Manutd has been a failure, with very poor results and not good enough playing style. His squad management has been poor too.
McT has still issues with his passing, positional sense and as a player I don't see much improvement in his game, rather than playing time and experience. In what areas has McT improved compared to last year?
Rashford has the same numbers in terms of goals/assists per mins compared to last year if you discount penalties. Even slightly worse. This is considering he's our leading scorer and also having zero competition to his place and being focal point to our attack.
Rashford 18/19 - 10 goals / 7 assists in 2.343 minutes - 0 penalties.
Rashford 19/20 - 14 goals / 4 assists in 1.882 minutes - 5 penalties.
18/19 - Goals/assists from open play - once every 137 minutes.
19/20 - Goals/assists from open play - once every 144 minutes.
These are his stats so far - taken from transfermarkd.
Rashford and McT have both been clearly better under Ole than they were under Jose and to pick away at minute stats to try prove otherwise is just sad.
So it's a good thing Rashford was overplayed to extend he will most likely miss the remainder of the season?
Again, look at the stats and how he fared in open play this year and last year - numbers are the same. He is the focal point of the attack and operates in much more space compared to last year due to us being a counter attacking side against better sides.
Is it fair to say he is a "positive influence" to a young player (your best asset) to be overplayed through pain over and over again and end up being injured ?
McT has played a lot more this season and naturally he will be better with experience.
Rashford was pretty good last year too and he has been mismanaged this year or we should discount Ole overplaying him ?
It was so obvious you'd bring up the "play through pain" thing. Yeah probably not the best move by Ole but it doesn't discount the fact that Rashford has been a better player under him.
Seriously, it's really sad that you have to try discredit even the positive things Ole has done here like that. We already have enough sticks to beat him with without doing that, what's the point? Do you think the board are going "well look results are awful, transfers weren't great, we look a mess in every aspect really, we won't get Europe this year, but man.. look at what he did with Rashford and McT, let's keep him!"?
This is hilarious. If Poch came in and improved the same players, it'd have nothing to do with age. It'd be Poch's talent at improving young players.
It's amazing when people try and make things up to take away the good things Ole has done. Has he done everything well? Absolutely not. But to just make things up to try and make him look worse than he already does is just silly.
Ole is the one playing McT
Also Rashford was good last season, very true, in the second half of the season more so than the first half as I recall, hmm, wonder why?
Even with the mismanagement, if you can't clearly see this as the season where Rashford has shown his best form and the clearest sign he could go on to have an amazing career for us, you just aren't worth discussing things with, sadly a lot on here aren't, too busy sticking to their in vs out team.
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