Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Bilbo]

I think most fans have been in agreement for years that the problem is two-fold, the players and the management. The problem is STILL two-fold and simply buying better players isn't going to improve us because our management team is sub-par. Likewise, firing Ole and bringing in say Pochettino to manage this exact squad will see very little improvements, also.

So you're saying that Pochettino wouldn't get more of a tune out of this lot without new additions, but even so you are convinced that this manager is not up to the task.

 

[b82REZ]

I think most on here would've got rid of most of the players Ole has.

Personally I would've got rid of, Lingard, Young, Jones, Darmian, Sanchez, Pereira etc but I wouldn't expect to be given credit for something that was obvious.

The most puzzling thing for me is how much credit Solskjaer is given for "clearing the deadwood".

He hasn't done that great a job because of the supposed deadwood he got rid of were arguably the least deadwoody out of all the players. Smalling should have been retained over Jones for example, and how anyone can thing keeping Pereira was a good idea while expecting him to contribute in the attacking third I have no idea.

Rebuilds are done at every club and no where else is such mediocrity accepted. There has to be a balance and certain deadwood players need to be retained and used while the process of rebuilding takes place. You can't get rid of half your squad and then beg for time as results decline. No matter how this is spun by supporters of the manager or press releases it is negligent and would not be accepted at any club in the world, let alone one of the self styled "biggest clubs in the world".

Mediocrity is pouring from top to bottom of our club right now and needs to be weeded out quickly or we risk becoming Liverpool or Arsenal as we go on about the good ol' days and how we'll one day return to glory and it'll be done "the United Way".

 

[Bobcat]

It's weird that you keep saying this but still so vehemently defend Ole. Surely if you acknowledge that the results have been poor under him then you're admitting that he's done a poor job?

I constantly see this from people on here now. "OK, look, the results have been crap but whaddabout this and this and this!". Like, it's all well and good talking about those other things but if a manager can't deliver results to an acceptable level of what he has at his disposal then that's pretty solid proof that the rest should be largely irrelevant because he's not up to the job in the first place.

Results are not good enough, so in that regard hes done a bad job, but that does not mean everything hes done has been horrible.

Clearing the deadwood was necessary and i firmly believe hes done the right thing here in that regard, even though it has hurt our league form this season. Would much rather take two seasons with no European football and then create a healthy base to build a top team from, than to limp onwards with a semi decent squad and then scramble for top 4 ever year

 

[Adnan]

The most puzzling thing for me is how much credit Solskjaer is given for "clearing the deadwood".

He hasn't done that great a job because of the supposed deadwood he got rid of were arguably the least deadwoody out of all the players. Smalling should have been retained over Jones for example, and how anyone can thing keeping Pereira was a good idea while expecting him to contribute in the attacking third I have no idea.

Rebuilds are done at every club and no where else is such mediocrity accepted. There has to be a balance and certain deadwood players need to be retained and used while the process of rebuilding takes place. You can't get rid of half your squad and then beg for time as results decline. No matter how this is spun by supporters of the manager or press releases it is negligent and would not be accepted at any club in the world, let alone one of the self styled "biggest clubs in the world".

Mediocrity is pouring from top to bottom of our club right now and needs to be weeded out quickly or we risk becoming Liverpool or Arsenal as we go on about the good ol' days and how we'll one day return to glory and it'll be done "the United Way".

If truth be told, his dismantling of the squad has been very naive and highlights his inexperience at such a big club.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Results are not good enough, so in that regard hes done a bad job, but that does not mean everything hes done has been horrible.

Clearing the deadwood was necessary and i firmly believe hes done the right thing here in that regard, even though it has hurt our league form this season. Would much rather take two seasons with no European football and then create a healthy base to build a top team from, than to limp onwards with a semi decent squad and then scramble for top 4 ever year

He's done a bad job full stop.

You can talk about your healthy base, and clearing deadwood and whatnot all you want but his signings really haven't been all that. Maguire was way overpriced, James is a decent backup, AWB is probably the best of them but again, cost a fortune. He just basically panic bought Bruno and an on-loan striker from China in January, which apparently is one of the things we were supposed to not do under Ole because he had a long term plan, so I guess that puts that one out the window too.

Also, if he did such a great job clearing deadwood, why he hell are Lingard and Pereira, two of the worst footballers I've ever seen in a Utd shot, getting so many games for us, whilst we've let better footballers leave?

For all this talk of clearing deadwood, and I'm not saying he hasn't done that, we have a net spend of something like £150m and probably a worse overall squad than we did when he first took over. How the actual feck is that "building a base?"

Honestly it's quite astonishing that you're willing to excuse a manager who has done so incredibly badly for us and broken all sorts of the wrong records just because he cleared out some deadwood and because we probably wouldn't be winning titles with this squad under another manager anyway. I mean fecking hell, read what you're saying and tell me it's not bonkers?

 

[b82REZ]

Results are not good enough, so in that regard hes done a bad job, but that does not mean everything hes done has been horrible.

Clearing the deadwood was necessary and i firmly believe hes done the right thing here in that regard, even though it has hurt our league form this season. Would much rather take two seasons with no European football and then create a healthy base to build a top team from, than to limp onwards with a semi decent squad and then scramble for top 4 ever year

But the impact of missing out of Europe for two consecutive seasons is huge. Just looking at the financial side, the Adidas money will be reduced this year which will impact our transfer fees. In regards to transfers we will miss out on top targets with no European football. How can we sell our vision to any ambitious player by suggesting we may miss out on European football as we build a squad.

I have never seen a club and a certain percentage of its supporters be so accepting of mediocrity.

 

[Bilbo]

we risk becoming Liverpool or Arsenal as we go on about the good ol' days and how we'll one day return to glory and it'll be done "the United Way".

Newsflash - we are already there. We have been for quite some time now, and we've failed to qualify for the CL more often than we have done so. This is why the rebuild is so essential.

 

[mancan92]

Results are not good enough, so in that regard hes done a bad job, but that does not mean everything hes done has been horrible.

Clearing the deadwood was necessary and i firmly believe hes done the right thing here in that regard, even though it has hurt our league form this season. Would much rather take two seasons with no European football and then create a healthy base to build a top team from, than to limp onwards with a semi decent squad and then scramble for top 4 ever year

But when has that ever worked for any team? Except Relegation level teams

 

[Robbie Boy]

LvG similarly cleared out the deadwood without properly replacing them. I seriously cannot believe that standards have fallen so low for some fans, that selling some shit players is now used as a barometer to praise a Manchester United manager. I mean, wow. We will surely look back on these threads in years to come and laugh at how badly some fans let their expectations for the club drop.

 

[b82REZ]

Newsflash - we are already there. We have been for quite some time now, and we've failed to qualify for the CL more often than we have done so. This is why the rebuild is so essential.

Newsflash - never for more than two consecutive seasons. Another negative record for Ole to smash.

I don't think you'll find any supporter that doesn't agree the squad needs rejuvenating but there is only about 20%of them that seem be under some illusion that we need to go backwards before we can move forwards. It's the most flawed logic and will be the major detriment to us being able to complete this rebuild properly.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Newsflash - we are already there. We have been for quite some time now, and we've failed to qualify for the CL more often than we have done so. This is why the rebuild is so essential.

Yeah, it is essential, and maybe we should, oh I don't know, hire a manager who is actually capable of getting us back into Europe?

By the way, it's only two seasons ago since we finished 2nd. We were in Europe last year for feck sake.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Newsflash - we are already there. We have been for quite some time now, and we've failed to qualify for the CL more often than we have done so. This is why the rebuild is so essential.

What we need is rebuild at the top. New owners might be hard sadly. New board, CEO. New fitness coaches/medical staff. New manager.
Although I do not know what everyone does in these roles, but clearly they are not doing a good enough job overall.
Woodward and Ole out first and the replacements might actually try to fix things.

Once we actually have people around that can buy the right players. Improve those we got and manage the squad then we can talk about a rebuild.
Getting Harry Maguire in to save us for 80 million hoping he is at Van Dijks level is not a rebuild in my world at all.
Hopefully Ole is not trying to rebuild the academy or anything because he would probably ruin our kids too.

 

[Massive Spanner]

LvG similarly cleared out the deadwood without properly replacing them. I seriously cannot believe that standards have fallen so low for some fans, that selling some shit players is now used as a barometer to praise a Manchester United manager. I mean, wow. We will surely look back on these threads in years to come and laugh at how badly some fans let their expectations for the club drop.

It's quite incredible how willing people are to accept mediocrity for the sake of not sacking a club legend. I reckon at this stage Ole could knock down their house and the response would be "ah to be honest the house was in need of a rebuild anyway, this is for the best".

 

[b82REZ]

LvG similarly cleared out the deadwood without properly replacing them. I seriously cannot believe that standards have fallen so low for some fans, that selling some shit players is now used as a barometer to praise a Manchester United manager. I mean, wow. We will surely look back on these threads in years to come and laugh at how badly some fans let their expectations for the club drop.

I've used this example before and you'll likely be ignored by the Ole supporters as they can't explain their double standards in this regard.

To be clear I hated the LvG years but he was doing exactly the same as Ole is now. He reduced the squad with the intention of incorporating youth. While it was arguably the worst football I've seen at United there was a clear direction to his plan and that translated onto the pitch. I cannot say the same for Ole.

LvG also did succeed in getting CL football in his first season and narrowly missed out in his second season whilst also winning a cup. That was not enough for the board or supporters, nor should it have been and LvG was justifiably sacked. I just don't get the double standard when it comes to Solskjaer.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I've used this example before and you'll likely be ignored by the Ole supporters as they can't explain their double standards in this regard.

To be clear I hated the LvG years but he was doing exactly the same as Ole is now. He reduced the squad with the intention of incorporating youth. While it was arguably the worst football I've seen at United there was a clear direction to his plan and that translated onto the pitch. I cannot say the same for Ole.

LvG also did succeed in getting CL football in his first season and narrowly missed out in his second season whilst also winning a cup. That was not enough for the board or supporters, nor should it have been and LvG was justifiably sacked. I just don't get the double standard when it comes to Solskjaer.

Still under LVG it was not like most of the kids got chances. Due to injury they got 1-2 games and then got dropped once others cameback.
Rashford scoring 4 goals in 2 games made it hard for LVG to do that.
Although had Rooney not been injured Rashford would have never got the chance. It would have been my captain will always play etc.

Under Ole though we basically got no strikers which almost forces him to play Greenwood.
Still Lingard and Pereira in midfield and sometimes on the wings have been picked ahead of him a lot too.

 

[b82REZ]

Still under LVG it was not like most of the kids got chances. Due to injury they got 1-2 games and then got dropped once others cameback.
Rashford scoring 4 goals in 2 games made it hard for LVG to do that.
Although had Rooney not been injured Rashford would have never got the chance. It would have been my captain will always play etc.

Under Ole though we basically got no strikers which almost forces him to play Greenwood.
Still Lingard and Pereira in midfield and sometimes on the wings have been picked ahead of him a lot too.

I don't know what point your trying to make but youth players were regularly starting for us LvG last season. CBJ, McNair, Blackett all got a decent amount of minutes that season of obviously Rashford emerged that season.

 

[Bilbo]

LvG similarly cleared out the deadwood without properly replacing them. I seriously cannot believe that standards have fallen so low for some fans, that selling some shit players is now used as a barometer to praise a Manchester United manager. I mean, wow. We will surely look back on these threads in years to come and laugh at how badly some fans let their expectations for the club drop.

Its not about being praised, its about doing what is needed to improve how this club is being managed financially. Numbers vary depending on where you look, but a conservative estimate is that we have shaved around €50m a year off of our wage bill since last season (this is dependant on Sanchez and how much of his salary we are still paying, but the number increases when/if he ends up being sold permanently). Mata and Matic are big earners and coming to the end of their contracts. Add to that the likely sales of Pogba and Lingard this summer and we will see very different wage bill figures this time next season. There is clear light at the end of what this time last year looked to be a very long and murky tunnel.

Don't be confused with thinking that this is our primary goal, but it is quite scandalous and a damning indictment on the last 5 years that we sit near the top of the global tree in terms of annual salaries and yet our squad is in the mess that it is in. It had to addressed, and it is being addressed.

Unfortunately there is a cost in doing this so quickly. Our squad is light on numbers this season, we've had very bad luck with injuries and this has affected results considerably. We are no longer looking at transfers unless they are on our terms. The club will come out of this in a much better footing financially. We are carrying far fewer players that are not contributing, or that do not want to be here. We now have the ability to add 3 or 4 more players to this squad and it suddenly looks altogether more suitable for this club in every way. Ole has been prepared to accept this, and deserves credit for it. There is no way we could have done this under LVG or Mourinho or many other managers.

 

[Bilbo]

Yeah, it is essential, and maybe we should, oh I don't know, hire a manager who is actually capable of getting us back into Europe?

By the way, it's only two seasons ago since we finished 2nd. We were in Europe last year for feck sake.

We don't even know whether we will succeed or fail in that regard yet. We still have 2 decent chances of qualifying.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Its not about being praised, its about doing what is needed to improve how this club is being managed financially. Numbers vary depending on where you look, but a conservative estimate is that we have shaved around €50m a year off of our wage bill since last season (this is dependant on Sanchez and how much of his salary we are still paying, but the number increases when/if he ends up being sold permanently). Mata and Matic are big earners and coming to the end of their contracts. Add to that the likely sales of Pogba and Lingard this summer and we will see very different wage bill figures this time next season. There is clear light at the end of what this time last year looked to be a very long and murky tunnel.

Don't be confused with thinking that this is our primary goal, but it is quite scandalous and a damning indictment on the last 5 years that we sit near the top of the global tree in terms of annual salaries and yet our squad is in the mess that it is in. It had to addressed, and it is being addressed.

Unfortunately there is a cost in doing this so quickly. Our squad is light on numbers this season, we've had very bad luck with injuries and this has affected results considerably. We are no longer looking at transfers unless they are on our terms. The club will come out of this in a much better footing financially. We are carrying far fewer players that are not contributing, or that do not want to be here. We now have the ability to add 3 or 4 more players to this squad and it suddenly looks altogether more suitable for this club in every way. Ole has been prepared to accept this, and deserves credit for it. There is no way we could have done this under LVG or Mourinho or many other managers.

Hang on.. Ole deserves credit for accepting what? He has a net spend of £140m, more than almost every other manager in world football in that same time period. But because whilst doing that, he got rid of some overpaid has-beens like Sanchez and Young, and basically forced Lukaku out of the club (who has been great for Inter, by the way), he deserves credit now?

What exactly has he accepted here? He's been given a massive salary, a huge budget, a huge wage bill, essentially freedom over who he purchases that most managers don't get, and his job is completely safe despite our worst PL season in recent memory? Oh, woe is on him!

he hasn't accepted shit, he's been backed as much, if not more, than any of our previous managers, despite somehow being worse than all of them in terms of results.

 

[Bilbo]

What we need is rebuild at the top. New owners might be hard sadly. New board, CEO. New fitness coaches/medical staff. New manager.
Although I do not know what everyone does in these roles, but clearly they are not doing a good enough job overall.
Woodward and Ole out first and the replacements might actually try to fix things.

Once we actually have people around that can buy the right players. Improve those we got and manage the squad then we can talk about a rebuild.
Getting Harry Maguire in to save us for 80 million hoping he is at Van Dijks level is not a rebuild in my world at all.
Hopefully Ole is not trying to rebuild the academy or anything because he would probably ruin our kids too.

The point in bold is the whole thing. You don't know what they do or how well they are doing. None of us do. Its too easy to look at results on the pitch being less than you would like, and needing a scapegoat, when its far easier and simply just more accurate to accept that this squad of players is not currently that good. We have a lot of talented players, and 7 or 8 parts towards a potentially excellent team, but critically we also have a chronic lack of creativity in the team and an attack that needs work. Its really no surprise at all that we aren't doing better than what we are.

 

[Bilbo]

Hang on.. Ole deserves credit for accepting what? He has a net spend of £140m, more than almost every other manager in world football in that same time period. But because whilst doing that, he got rid of some overpaid has-beens like Sanchez and Young, and basically forced Lukaku out of the club (who has been great for Inter, by the way), he deserves credit now?

What exactly has he accepted here? He's been given a massive salary, a huge budget, a huge wage bill, essentially freedom over who he purchases that most managers don't get, and his job is completely safe despite our worst PL season in recent memory? Oh, woe is on him!

he hasn't accepted shit, he's been backed as much, if not more, than any of our previous managers, despite somehow being worse than all of them in terms of results.

Too many people on here just moan without asking themselves why his job is safe. Look at your post without emotion, as if it was a case study, and ask yourself why would anyone ever have a 'completely safe' job under those circumstances? Either the board have gone completely insane and are deliberately sabotaging their own club, or there are pieces to this puzzle that you either don't understand or choose not to. Which one do you think is most likely?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Too many people on here just moan without asking themselves why his job is safe. Look at your post without emotion, as if it was a case study, and ask yourself why would anyone ever have a 'completely safe' job under those circumstances? Either the board have gone completely insane and are deliberately sabotaging their own club, or there are pieces to this puzzle that you either don't understand or choose not to. Which one do you think is most likely?

Uh, the first one. Have you completely missed how our board have run the club in the last decade?

Sorry but using the "you just don't understand how it all works" line doesn't really, well, work, when it comes to Man utd, given the terrible decisions they've been making since Fergie retired (and beyond that). It's a really lame attempt at being condescending.

 

[Bilbo]

Uh, the first one. Have you completely missed how our board have run the club in the last decade?

Sorry but using the "you just don't understand how it all works" line doesn't really, well, work, when it comes to Man utd, given the terrible decisions they've been making since Fergie retired (and beyond that). It's a really lame attempt at being condescending.

Its only condescending if Im claiming to understand every piece of the puzzle. I'm not and I don't. My way of looking at this just makes the most sense to me and fits logically. You can't be feeling the same way when you have no better suggestion for why Ole is still manager other than the board are insane.

 

[hobbers]

Too many people on here just moan without asking themselves why his job is safe. Look at your post without emotion, as if it was a case study, and ask yourself why would anyone ever have a 'completely safe' job under those circumstances? Either the board have gone completely insane and are deliberately sabotaging their own club, or there are pieces to this puzzle that you either don't understand or choose not to. Which one do you think is most likely?

We just tried to sign Josh King on a permanent deal....

We went from Haaland on the first day of the window to King on the final day. Undermining everything Ole or the board have ever said about "finding the right players" "building a better culture" or whatever other vacuous cliches they've trotted out.

It's not a question of sanity it's a question of competence, and no, our board have none. There's nothing secretly great going on behind the scenes, everything is as garbage as it looks. The only reason Ole is still in this job is Woodward is desperately hoping it turns around somehow and he saves face.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Its only condescending if Im claiming to understand every piece of the puzzle. I'm not and I don't. My way of looking at this just makes the most sense to me and fits logically. You can't be feeling the same way when you have no better suggestion for why Ole is still manager other than the board are insane.

I never said the board were insane.

Ole is likely still the manager because he's a club legend and the board know they would receive a lot of backlash from a fanbase who already think they've made a lot of awful decisions since Fergie retired, or (optimist in me) maybe because the manager they want to replace him with won't be available til the summer.

What I do know about our board for certain is that pretty much every major footballing and managerial decision they have made since Fergie retired has been a poor one, so how exactly should it be OK for you to tell me I just don't understand what the board is and what pieces there are to the puzzle when all past, factual evidence shows they're the ones who don't have a fecking clue what they're doing?

 

[Bobcat]

He's done a bad job full stop.

You can talk about your healthy base, and clearing deadwood and whatnot all you want but his signings really haven't been all that. Maguire was way overpriced, James is a decent backup, AWB is probably the best of them but again, cost a fortune. He just basically panic bought Bruno and an on-loan striker from China in January, which apparently is one of the things we were supposed to not do under Ole because he had a long term plan, so I guess that puts that one out the window too.

Also, if he did such a great job clearing deadwood, why he hell are Lingard and Pereira, two of the worst footballers I've ever seen in a Utd shot, getting so many games for us, whilst we've let better footballers leave?

For all this talk of clearing deadwood, and I'm not saying he hasn't done that, we have a net spend of something like £150m and probably a worse overall squad than we did when he first took over. How the actual feck is that "building a base?"

Honestly it's quite astonishing that you're willing to excuse a manager who has done so incredibly badly for us and broken all sorts of the wrong records just because he cleared out some deadwood and because we probably wouldn't be winning titles with this squad under another manager anyway. I mean fecking hell, read what you're saying and tell me it's not bonkers?

Have to disagree on that. Clearly what we produce on the pitch is not good enough, but i think you are being unfair here.

1) Maguire was expensive yes, but that cant really be blamed solely on the manager. Even considering his price, hes fairly young for a CB, comfortably a level above the rest and just made captain so he was brought in for more than just his defending. AWB and James as you said were good acquisitions
2) No one knows why we did not do any more business in the summer, every man and his dog could see that squad was paper thin and if Ole was so naive that he thought that would last an entire season no problem its his fault alone. On the other hand, dont you think its plausible that Ed fecked up once again or that the board tightened the purse strings a bit and wanted us to shed some dead weight from the squad before we made new signings?
3) Lingard and Pereria are clearly not good enough, but its not like they were the only ones holding the squad back. Sanchez for example is on something ridiculous like 400k/week with all addons, and i am pretty sure everyone at the club is desperate to get him of our books seeing as those wages could potentially pay for two world class players.
4) The squad is "weaker" yes in some sense, but the age profile is much better and i would say that overall its in a much healthier state than it was before he took charge.

Not excusing anything here mate. As far as i am concerned he should be sacked at the end of the season unless our form drastically improves, because there is simply no excuse for winning only 1/3 of our league games, but at the same time i think hes done well in getting rid of so much deadwood in a short timespan.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Have to disagree on that. Clearly what we produce on the pitch is not good enough, but i think you are being unfair here.

1) Maguire was expensive yes, but that cant really be blamed solely on the manager. Even considering his price, hes fairly young for a CB, comfortably a level above the rest and just made captain so he was brought in for more than just his defending. AWB and James as you said were good acquisitions
2) No one knows why we did not do any more business in the summer, every man and his dog could see that squad was paper thin and if Ole was so naive that he thought that would last an entire season no problem its his fault alone. On the other hand, dont you think its plausible that Ed fecked up once again or that the board tightened the purse strings a bit and wanted us to shed some dead weight from the squad before we made new signings?
3) Lingard and Pereria are clearly not good enough, but its not like they were the only ones holding the squad back. Sanchez for example is on something ridiculous like 400k/week with all addons, and i am pretty sure everyone at the club is desperate to get him of our books seeing as those wages could potentially pay for two world class players.
4) The squad is "weaker" yes in some sense, but the age profile is much better and i would say that overall its in a much healthier state than it was before he took charge.

Not excusing anything here mate. As far as i am concerned he should be sacked at the end of the season unless our form drastically improves, because there is simply no excuse for winning only 1/3 of our league games, but at the same time i think hes done well in getting rid of so much deadwood in a short timespan.

Personally I always find it ridiculous when people complain about Ole not being given more funds in the summer to buy a midfielder/striker when he spent £130m on a center back and a right back, the former at a world record fee who was, at best, a modest upgrade on another center back he just let go on loan. it makes no sense, you can't have it both ways. Ole would've known his budget and limitations, it was his decision to splash all that money on Maguire and AWB.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The point in bold is the whole thing. You don't know what they do or how well they are doing. None of us do. Its too easy to look at results on the pitch being less than you would like, and needing a scapegoat, when its far easier and simply just more accurate to accept that this squad of players is not currently that good. We have a lot of talented players, and 7 or 8 parts towards a potentially excellent team, but critically we also have a chronic lack of creativity in the team and an attack that needs work. Its really no surprise at all that we aren't doing better than what we are.

Based on the evidence though there is something not right. Coaching and fitness coaching looks far from optimal. I don't know if that is due to our players being physically injury prone, weak, unfit etc from the start. Although most players have looked better before joining us on those levels.
The management and transfer history we got has been shockingly bad and that has been easy to see from the start
. Although it might look worse due to players declining for us.
I think Mourinho had the right ideas for short term sucess and in what he wanted to do, but might have got let down by the background staff in terms of fitness etc.
The other managers have been clueless from the start in terms of building/improving us.
There has notbeen no long term plan around at all it seems at any level. The board,owners, Woodward should get the blame for that.

I don't think us having a crazy amount of injuries every season compared to City and Liverpool is down to luck.
I am sure they have better background staff for medical treatments and fitness coaching. Particular Liverpool.
I do not fully know what they are doing differently, but what we are doing is not working well.
Van Dijk was injured a fair amount before he played for Pool. Once he joined them he has played pretty much every game for them no problems and look like a beast.

 

[Bobcat]

But the impact of missing out of Europe for two consecutive seasons is huge. Just looking at the financial side, the Adidas money will be reduced this year which will impact our transfer fees. In regards to transfers we will miss out on top targets with no European football. How can we sell our vision to any ambitious player by suggesting we may miss out on European football as we build a squad.

I have never seen a club and a certain percentage of its supporters be so accepting of mediocrity.

Missing out on CL is of course a big hit both in terms of lack of revenue and status, but even then we are still a big club with pulling power and spending power. Its not about "accepting mediocrity" no one wants that, but its about accepting the fact that we are no longer among the top dogs in Europe(or the EPL) and clawing our way back will be neither fast nor easy.

Look at our squad and compare it it City. The fact that we pay slightly less in yearly wages is nothing but a disgrace and drastic measures had to be taken. Just look at who has left

Lukaku: Decent player, but wanted away, also acted very unprofessionally his last months here to force a move. Had pretty much all of the Caf on his back his last year here and even on OT he was met with loads of moans and groans from the fans. Could he have helped this season? Yes, without a doubt, but he was not part of the long term plan so why not get rid
Smalling: One of the "chuckle brothers" who suddenly turned into the best CB in the world once he moved to Roma. Hes a marginally better defender than Lindelof, but a complete disaster with the ball at his feet
Darmian: Deadwood
Young: Deadwood
Valenica: Deadwood
Fellaini: Deadwood
Sanchez: Bloody expensive deadwood. Considering his wages hes imo the worst transfer ever made in the EPL. Worse than Torres to Chelsea and Carrol to Liverpool'
Rojo: Deadwood
Herrera: Very good player imo, but left because we did not meet his demands on the new contract. Woody fecked this one up.

Then look at what we have left to clear
Baily: Walking red card and always injured
Jones: Utterly unreliable
Shaw: Always a gust of wind away from being injured for 7 months
Mata: Past it
Lindgard: Not a footballer
Pereira: Decent left foot, shit at everything else
Gomes: Has his head to far up his own arse. Not shown anything on the pitch, yet demands a big contract. Get rid
Chong: French League 2 level
Matic: Past it
Martial: Amazing in 1/3 of his games, utterly useless in the other 2/3's

All teams go through "transitional years" every 5-6 years when the old guard is nearing retirement and they have to refresh the squad with new blood, but its much more difficult in our case because we let all the blooded veterans leave between 2013-2015 and we replaced them with overrated plonkers, mercenaries and frauds.

Not trying to excuse Ole here, if we finish the season as poorly as we have done so far he should be sent packing, but Poch or whoever takes over still have their work cut out for them because there is still major surgery needed to this squad

But when has that ever worked for any team? Except Relegation level teams

 

[b82REZ]

Missing out on CL is of course a big hit both in terms of lack of revenue and status, but even then we are still a big club with pulling power and spending power. Its not about "accepting mediocrity" no one wants that, but its about accepting the fact that we are no longer among the top dogs in Europe(or the EPL) and clawing our way back will be neither fast nor easy.

Look at our squad and compare it it City. The fact that we pay slightly less in yearly wages is nothing but a disgrace and drastic measures had to be taken. Just look at who has left

Lukaku: Decent player, but wanted away, also acted very unprofessionally his last months here to force a move. Had pretty much all of the Caf on his back his last year here and even on OT he was met with loads of moans and groans from the fans. Could he have helped this season? Yes, without a doubt, but he was not part of the long term plan so why not get rid
Smalling: One of the "chuckle brothers" who suddenly turned into the best CB in the world once he moved to Roma. Hes a marginally better defender than Lindelof, but a complete disaster with the ball at his feet
Darmian: Deadwood
Young: Deadwood
Valenica: Deadwood
Fellaini: Deadwood
Sanchez: Bloody expensive deadwood. Considering his wages hes imo the worst transfer ever made in the EPL. Worse than Torres to Chelsea and Carrol to Liverpool'
Rojo: Deadwood
Herrera: Very good player imo, but left because we did not meet his demands on the new contract. Woody fecked this one up.

Then look at what we have left to clear
Baily: Walking red card and always injured
Jones: Utterly unreliable
Shaw: Always a gust of wind away from being injured for 7 months
Mata: Past it
Lindgard: Not a footballer
Pereira: Decent left foot, shit at everything else
Gomes: Has his head to far up his own arse. Not shown anything on the pitch, yet demands a big contract. Get rid
Chong: French League 2 level
Matic: Past it
Martial: Amazing in 1/3 of his games, utterly useless in the other 2/3's

All teams go through "transitional years" every 5-6 years when the old guard is nearing retirement and they have to refresh the squad with new blood, but its much more difficult in our case because we let all the blooded veterans leave between 2013-2015 and we replaced them with overrated plonkers, mercenaries and frauds.

Not trying to excuse Ole here, if we finish the season as poorly as we have done so far he should be sent packing, but Poch or whoever takes over still have their work cut out for them because there is still major surgery needed to this squad

These transitional teams don't freefall down the table though.

Take City this year, they are underachieving by their standards, but come summer they'll overhaul the squad and be challenging again. No talk of a 3 year cycle.

That can be applied to any club. Yet this acceptance of we must get worse to get better is only found on here and is only peddled by Ole supporters.

No one has disagreed that a long term approach is needed but that shouldn't come at the detriment of results in the short term and theres no way you or anyone else can spin this to make me think it should be accepted.

 

[sunama]

Yeah, it is essential, and maybe we should, oh I don't know, hire a manager who is actually capable of getting us back into Europe?

By the way, it's only two seasons ago since we finished 2nd. We were in Europe last year for feck sake.

It just shows how quickly we have fallen and fans are quite accepting of this. It's almost as if some people have had their memories wiped.
Any other club would be in shock, but our fans: "Yeah it's okay. It's a rebuild".

 

[90 + 5min]

That moment when statistics, facts and logic are being thrown in your face, and you can only manage to retort back with sarcastic nonsense. Enjoy the moment, friend.

Statistics is one thing. Fact is another. And logic is another. They can be different to eachother. While the statistic show that we are not world beaters there are things behind those Numbers that should be talked about. First and most important. Players we got and injuries. There should be some logic that with thin average squad hit by injuries would mean that we could struggle.

What's with the hate, man?

Also post one quote of someone saying we'll win the league next season. Either that or stop making strawman arguments because you're offering nothing now other than lies.

The hate doesn’t come from me. And lies is something that is made up by Ole-out supporters. To discredit our manager. Not all but some.

I don't know who's telling you that, or maybe you just want to project hyperbole like all Ole fanboys do (yes I did say fanboys because at this point you guys are Ole fans more than Man Utd fans). Perhaps a better manager/coach will have these players getting results against the likes of Burnley and Watford, so that we can stay within the champions league places.

Call us whatever you want. We, that are still thinking time is important are no Ole fans. We are ManUtd fans. We know that things take time. We know that you can’t bulid anything in a sec. We have tried buying stars and it didn’t Work. Club has taken another way now and this way takes time. We can sack Solskjaer but without time other managers would struggle aswell.

 

[Wolfmother]

Missing out on CL is of course a big hit both in terms of lack of revenue and status, but even then we are still a big club with pulling power and spending power. Its not about "accepting mediocrity" no one wants that, but its about accepting the fact that we are no longer among the top dogs in Europe(or the EPL) and clawing our way back will be neither fast nor easy.

Look at our squad and compare it it City. The fact that we pay slightly less in yearly wages is nothing but a disgrace and drastic measures had to be taken. Just look at who has left

Lukaku: Decent player, but wanted away, also acted very unprofessionally his last months here to force a move. Had pretty much all of the Caf on his back his last year here and even on OT he was met with loads of moans and groans from the fans. Could he have helped this season? Yes, without a doubt, but he was not part of the long term plan so why not get rid
Smalling: One of the "chuckle brothers" who suddenly turned into the best CB in the world once he moved to Roma. Hes a marginally better defender than Lindelof, but a complete disaster with the ball at his feet
Darmian: Deadwood
Young: Deadwood
Valenica: Deadwood
Fellaini: Deadwood
Sanchez: Bloody expensive deadwood. Considering his wages hes imo the worst transfer ever made in the EPL. Worse than Torres to Chelsea and Carrol to Liverpool'
Rojo: Deadwood
Herrera: Very good player imo, but left because we did not meet his demands on the new contract. Woody fecked this one up.

Then look at what we have left to clear
Baily: Walking red card and always injured
Jones: Utterly unreliable
Shaw: Always a gust of wind away from being injured for 7 months
Mata: Past it
Lindgard: Not a footballer
Pereira: Decent left foot, shit at everything else
Gomes: Has his head to far up his own arse. Not shown anything on the pitch, yet demands a big contract. Get rid
Chong: French League 2 level
Matic: Past it
Martial: Amazing in 1/3 of his games, utterly useless in the other 2/3's

All teams go through "transitional years" every 5-6 years when the old guard is nearing retirement and they have to refresh the squad with new blood, but its much more difficult in our case because we let all the blooded veterans leave between 2013-2015 and we replaced them with overrated plonkers, mercenaries and frauds.

Not trying to excuse Ole here, if we finish the season as poorly as we have done so far he should be sent packing, but Poch or whoever takes over still have their work cut out for them because there is still major surgery needed to this squad

Very good assessment! Having watched these players over the years, I don't know if there is any way improving them. You might put them into another system, but that is a bigger Achilles when doing a rebuild.

For me, I’m not to concerned about a few bad results. I’m not to concerned about league table, nor am I concerned about how many points we get.
I watch the players we will keep going forward, and that is the most important thing. If Either Pereira or Lindgard can’t make the runs, or even face the right direction, it is not important. If we can’t play proper football with Matic or Mata on the pitch, it’s not important either. None of these players will be here in the long run. I think the club has set a fair goal this season in top 6. It tells me they knew where they where at before the season started. And with players coming back, our fortunes might even change for the better in a top four chase.

 

[Roboc7]

Disagree, step one was getting rid of deadwood, and quite a few have left already.

Not going to defend the results, because they are clearly not good enough and the squad is better than we currently display, but it still does not change the fact that way to many in the squad are far below the level we should be aiming for.

If Poch or whoever is manager in 5 months time i still would want him to get rid of Lindgard, Pereira, Baily, Shaw, Mata, Matic and Martial. Most of them have played under 3 different managers now and its not like they suddenly turned to shit this year.

No step one had to be change the way we play, move away from the negative tactics and lack of attacking play. Also make the team more not less competitive.

Also think deadwood is massively overplayed, the truth is a lot of these guys are jumping ship, their not leaving kicking and screaming.

I’m not going to commend Ole for Ashley Young wanting to leave because he has a better offer despite playing regularly and being our Captain. A lot of deadwood has been signed up to new deals and have no intention of leaving, that’s where the real problems are.

 

[Bobcat]

These transitional teams don't freefall down the table though.

Take City this year, they are underachieving by their standards, but come summer they'll overhaul the squad and be challenging again. No talk of a 3 year cycle.

That can be applied to any club. Yet this acceptance of we must get worse to get better is only found on here and is only peddled by Ole supporters.

No one has disagreed that a long term approach is needed but that shouldn't come at the detriment of results in the short term and theres no way you or anyone else can spin this to make me think it should be accepted.

No, usually big team is transition dont but our problems started 7 years ago and not in 2019. The EPL is also different than say Spain, Germany or Italy where you have a couple of mega clubs who have complete hegemony over their competitors and vastly more funds and pulling power. Falter in the EPL and you will get overtaken.

Comparing us to City right now is apples and oranges, the likes of Gundogan and Mahrez who usually sit on their bench could walk straight into our first XI. In their case its about replacing 2-3 very good players with 2-3 world class players, in our its a case of replacing 2-3 useless first XI players with decent ones AND finding adequate back up players. They've not won 4/8 last PL season just because Pep (4 league titles in 3 years would be an achievement), they've won because they have a fecking good squad and have had for quite some time

That bolded part is key. Ole has not done well enough this season. 1/3 wins in the league is unacceptable. Still does not change the fact that a successful football club is a lot more than a manager and simply replacing him wont magically make us into league contenders. If Poch takes over in May my stance will be exactly the same. He needs time and funds because this squad is far, far from the Manchester United of old

 

[Bobcat]

No step one had to be change the way we play, move away from the negative tactics and lack of attacking play. Also make the team more not less competitive.

Also think deadwood is massively overplayed, the truth is a lot of these guys are jumping ship, their not leaving kicking and screaming.

I’m not going to commend Ole for Ashley Young wanting to leave because he has a better offer despite playing regularly and being our Captain. A lot of deadwood has been signed up to new deals and have no intention of leaving, that’s where the real problems are.

No matter how you spin it, the players who left were never going to be part of our future, under any manager.

The problem with deadwood is that no one else wants them either. No big European clubs are scratching at out doors and begging is for Lindgard and Jones because they are shit players, worth nothing to us, and nothing to them either.

I'd be happy to eat my own words if Poch could turn Lindgard, Pereria and Jones into decent footballers, but i highly doubt that. If he gets here this summer i want him to show those guys (among others) the door and bring in new players who are actually worthy of the shirt

 

[Class of 63]

Actually Mclaren was considered one of the most promising assistant managers in English football. He was instrumental as no 2 to get Derby back to the EPL and was one of the first to bring technology into football.

Don’t take me wrong sir alex had his share of nepotism which he could afford since he was a genius from a gone era were managers did everything. He always brought people from outside the United pool to give him ideas. Smith, Rene, queroz, Mclaren all had real power at the club enough to take down Roy Keane.not to forget that those who made it on top had a real career progression. They weren't thrown in the deep end from day 1 like Carrick did


I don't see that career progression and new ideas coming in at the moment. Ole and Phelan are Sir Alex accolades, Carrick is inexperienced and also a Sir Alex accolade, mckenna has no experience managing older players while the new guys being brought in from outside the club are as inexperienced as our own manager. It's the same tired ideas rehashed over and over again which is a shame considering that our inexperienced manager needs all the help he can get. That goes against the United way who was always revolutionary and aimed for success.

I knew about Carlos Queiroz, but wasn't aware who Steve McClaren was, and I doubt many United fans did either at the time. Without cheating I doubt many could name the Assistant Manager/No.2 at Liverpool, Burnley or Southampton never mind those doing a similar job for clubs making waves in the Championship.

 

[vanderpants]

I think we all know deep down that Ole will be here next season, If he doesn't improve then I think he will walk rather than get sacked, My concern is that Poch will take another jobe elsewhere and we will miss out on him

 

[Gehrman]

I think we all know deep down that Ole will be here next season, If he doesn't improve then I think he will walk rather than get sacked, My concern is that Poch will take another jobe elsewhere and we will miss out on him

He's not walking away from his compensation

 

[Random Task]

I think we all know deep down that Ole will be here next season, If he doesn't improve then I think he will walk rather than get sacked, My concern is that Poch will take another jobe elsewhere and we will miss out on him

Ole will be sacked if he fails to make top-four, or at least compete for that position, just like Moyes, LVG and Jose before him. Top-four being a mandatory requirement is pretty much the only constant of Woodwards reign as CEO.