Don't agree with this bit at all. Can't recall ever seeing or hearing any of their fans being unhappy with him or not being able to see a plan of action.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Exactly. Klopp's first 12 months he reached the final of League cup and Europa. His team scored 113 goals in that period. Win percentage around 50. 23 different players scored goals in that period. 16 players were given their debut. 20 clean sheets were kept. Four or more goals were scored 11 times. And of course the patterns and cohesion was there for all to see.
Give Ole all the time in the world but people should desist from making absurd comparisons between unequals.
really @KekiZeki ?
Onto Klopp’s first full season had a Premier League win-rate of 58%.
If anyone laughed and compared him to their previous managers after that win-rate, their style of play and his Dortmund history, they weren't very clued up.
If Man City or Liverpool had a poll to sack their managers, would you vote keep then as a United fan?
That's different, that would be obvious.
Stop giving them the benefit that they have a reasonable level of intelligence, if we were to sack the Manager, whether it was Ole, Mourinho, LvG or Fred the Red it would mean we were struggling, and that's all that matters to rival supporters, or should be.
My God it's a mini invasion! Mr Mainwaring and his boys sleeping on the job again.
This has to be highlighted. When Ole took over I thought it was temporary as were most people. Then after the PSG game he became permanent and everything collapsed. If he had a way and a system and kept winning matches this season even if he didn't win any trophies most people including me would be very happy.
No one knows what is going on behind the scenes so all of us see what happens in front of our eyes. In this case culled the squad and not bringing in replacements for the midfield which ever Tom, Dick and Harry(not Maguire) knew that we needed to strengthen the midfield. Yet he let go of Fellaini and Herrera without adding to the squad. Then his public statements on the squad is good enough which everyone knew was not good enough. Then going after British players with their inflated price. Not having a system in how to play and only knowing counter attacking football and not realising the importance of a set piece and finally the worst the last playing Lingard always.
His press conferences are becoming a bit of a joke as well.
Comparing him to Klopp and saying Pool fans wanted him out is pure moonshine. We all wanted Klopp. In fact Woodward was trying to sell United to him by comparing it to Disney. Klopp the most up coming manager who won the Bundesliga a couple of times and took Dotmund to the CL final and people are trying to compare him to Ole? Sheesh.
You can compare Lampard and Ole because both are very good players and Ole has more managerial experience than Lampard but at this moment in time Lampard is doing a bit better but hopefully not soon.
I am sure most of us would hold up our hands and say we were wrong if he gets us going in the right way in the right direction. We want the best for United. If it is a situation of United or Ole, I, for one would not have any hesitation is choosing United. I am not so sure of some here though.
For some fact knowledge, regardles of win procentage. Jurgen Klopp:
2015-2016 - 0 titles
2016-2017 - 0 titles
2017-2018 - 0 titles
2018-2019 - 1 Champions League
2019-2020 - 1 World Super Cup, 1 European super cup, (soon some more)
It took 4 years for Klopp to get the team right with lot of buying and selling. Something quick-fix fans should have in mind when you are asking Solskjaer to deliver right away.
No need with fake news. Herrera wanted out. He got paid a lot in PSG and something our club didn't want to give him. Stop making it out that Solskjaer didn't want him. Fellaini, when left, nobody missed him. Suddenly there are people on here that are furious with that decision even if they where most vocal to get him out. How things change.
Joke? How? You think it is better to throw players under the bus? You like when it is heated press conference? Just because he doesn't let media get what they want don't mean they are bad. What do you want to hear at press conference?
Nobody is comparing Solskjaer with Klopp. What Ole-in fans want is some kind of patience and understanding where we are and why.
dwd came in, they werent ready.
Obvious oppo WUM is obvious!
I love the way people conveniently forget Klopps record before he came to Liverpool. If Ole had of won a couple of German leagues, a couple of German supercups and got to a CL final do you really think people would be so critical of the job he's doing at the minute? Ole has absolutely no credit in the bank other than being an ex legend.
Also 2015/16 he got to a EL final and in 2017/18 a CL final with improvements in the playing style on a regular basis. He didn't have a much better squad when he took over then Ole did. His plan was obvious for all to see from the start. I'm seriously still trying to work out Oles after more than a year in charge.
Examples of obvious in a Sentence
Her doctor immediately noticed the obvious signs of the disease. She saw only the most obvious differences. It was obvious that things weren't working out. The answer seems obvious enough to me.
I have not forgot his record in Bundesliga. But that has nothing to do with Liverpool. In Liverpool, he took time, he made right decision, got rid of lots of players and bought lot aswell. Step by step he made his team stronger and stronger and is now getting credit for the work started 4 years ago.
First year he bought 7players, excluding youth.
Second year he bought 5 players excluding young
Third year he bought 4 players excluding young
Forth year he bough less and this year he only bought 2 player excluding youth
That is more then 20 first team players in almost 5 years. If he was satisfied with his squad he would have bought very little. Looking at last game against Tottenham only Henderson and Firminho were there when Klopp arrived of those who started. So he did bulid that team and as you can see, it took 4 years to make it work so titles could be won. It wasn't fixed after a year.
Let me try...
Obvious Oppo WUM is obviously not meme literate, and thus while obviously attempting to assume the position of pedantic Grammar Nazi, instead ends up revealing their own obvious limitation of understanding...
The point is Fergie and Klopp didnt become good because they were given time, they were already good and that's why they got time.
Otherwise any incompetent Tom, dick or harry could make a case for being given time on any job
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Whatever.
The idea that Klopp has done a fantastic job at Liverpool is undeniable. They have bought lots of players, significant ones at the values 10-40 million. Finished the team off with proven quality in a couple of areas where they were weakest.
If we buy players in the 10-40m range, if they don’t work out, no huge loss, move them on. We need to be more active in buying and selling players.
At every stage of Klopp’s last 4 years you could see rapid progress. With Ole , I just don’t see it . Even with the inconsistency, I can’t see past it being more of the same. I perhaps need enlightenment as to where we are going as a club and I can change my vote to keep.
If we buy players in the 10-40m range, if they don’t work out, no huge loss, move them on. We need to be more active in buying and selling players.
At every stage of Klopp’s last 4 years you could see rapid progress. With Ole , I just don’t see it . Even with the inconsistency, I can’t see past it being more of the same. I perhaps need enlightenment as to where we are going as a club and I can change my vote to keep.
It's completely lost on 90+5. As is the obvious massive improvements both SAF and Klopp made to their sides in the time Ole current has had in the United hot seat.
All he sees is that it took time to win stuff, it's an extremely blinkered way of thinking and no-one on here is going to get him to think otherwise. I spelled the Klopp story out in very very simple terms and stats and it made zero difference.
What he doesn't realise it that if Ole had done in these 13 months what Klopp and Fergie did in their first 13 months at Liverpool and United respectively, people wouldn't be calling for anyone's head, they'd be friggin delighted.
But then he's a newb with 90+5 as his username who joined the caf after Ole was made manager, we're daft to even expect a sensible discussion. Chances that's he's a noggie? 99.9%?
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It's got everything to do with Liverpool. Before he came to them Klopp was a proven winner. He was one of the most sought after managers in the world. Having the patience with him is 100 times more easier than bringing in someone like Ole with his track record as manager. I doubt if there was 1 Liverpool fan who was unhappy with Klopps appointment whereas with Ole the fan base was divided from the start and has continued to be so because a lot of people still don't think he's up to the job.
I think we agree that Klopp took over a slightly worse Liverpool side but within a very short period he had them playing above their station. If Ole had of accomplished that then once again he would be given a lot more leeway.
Obviously the problems go a lot higher than Ole but a good manager can get his team playing above their station which a lot more managers than Klopp or Pep have accomplished, whereas an excellent manager can win things even if we aren't challenging for the title with the squad we currently have but an average manager will have them playing at their level and unfortunately I don't see Ole as anything more than average.
I agree they were good. But so were Mourinho and VanGaal and we know how it went. There is also cases of coaches like Guardiola came without any sort of credientals. I'm not comparing them and I'm not saying Solskjaer is like them but you don't know how it will work unless you give managers time. At same time one must wonder where we stand as a team and club.
I love it when you go personal when your "facts" are getting questioned with simpliest answers. But it is ok. I can take it.
Me, being "new" at this forum (although been reding for years and years) has nothing to do with me supporting the team which I have done for 30+ years. I came in here because of things that are written after every game towards our players and manager. Things that fans should be ashamed of. I came in here to give this forum some balance. But go ahead, make yourself better fan because you got 9000+ posts behind you.
It s easier giving patience. Ofcourse. But that doesn't neccesary mean that managers without any big track record can't make it. As I said before, there are lot of managers coming from nowhere and making it bigtime. First and most Guardiola and he is not the only one. And no, I'm not saying Solskjaer is Guardiola.
While people look at him and what he has done before I am different. I am looking what he is doing now and if the club and team are going forward. And as long as I see progress I am going to stand behind our manager and team.
How on earth has it got nothing to do with his Job at Liverpool in the beginning? it was his CV. Judging by your logic your logic you might as well give me the job at Utd for a few years as the past doesn't count and it took klopp a few years of buying and selling to get it right.
His time in the Bundesliga was proof he knows what he is doing and buys him time, something Ole has zero of. I want Ole to succeed and am constantly changing my mind between when he has everyone fit his plan A is extremely good to looking absolute clueless when he hasn't got EVERYONE fit.
I'm at the point now where enough time has passed that I would replace him in a heartbeat with one of the up and coming hipster managers like nagelsmann if we can but if we can't i'm reasonably happy to see if he gets better or worse with returning players or new players. I don't want to replace him for Poch though, I want a manger that has been playing really attractive football for the past two years (somebody we still haven't hired remarkably) and Poch just hasn't been.
What Ole-in fans want is some kind of patience and understanding where we are and why.
This is the exact point I am making. I am not a fan of Ole and neither was I a fan of Jose or LVG. I am a fan of Manchester United and has been one long before Fergie even stopped playing. You people are fans of Ole and not United most probably.
I want the best manager in the world for United. I want the best players in the world for United. Now it is not possible to get the best three managers for sure and not sure about the best 6 or 7 managers in the World to come to United. Is it too much as a fan of Manchester United that I do not want a rookie manager who was won nothing of importance to be the manager of Manchester United? Someone who has not been known in the footballing world of being a top coach? For that matter I have my doubts about Poch too but for sure he has a better track record that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
No we can't. They finished 8th in the 15/16 season, with standards at season end reflected well here:
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=328774.msg14730234#msg14730234
Klopp's squad was, as is Ole's, young, and he needed 3 years to mature the squad and acquire top talent before challenging for the title. As with Ole, he couldn't achieve consistency without fixing fundamental squad issues.. no one can.
Because CV is not everything. And as Manchester Unnited supporter you would know that looking at how it went with our previous managers.
When Klopp came to Liverpool, his CV couldn't help him. CV helped him getting the job and maybe having owners/fans who had patience but CV didn't help him. Only his work. And he has shown that given time, work and resources you can make it to the top.
We want what is best for the club. It is not to much that you don't want a rookie (your words) as a manager. After Fergie we have had two absolut top class managers and it didn't worked that well. Although somewhere I think we where to quick to get rid of vanGaal. And when it comes to Mourinho you could say that he gave United no other way then to sack him. So having a great CV is not some answer that it will go well.
I'm not a fan of Ole. I am fan of Manchester United. As I said as long as I see progress from where we have been last year then I am still behind manager and players. When we stop making progress I will start to question him.
Probably why your argument is long with the Ole out fans is because you think we're making progress under Ole while they don't. I personally have decided not to make any judgment until the end of the season.
If Ole is provided a creative midfielder, my expectation for this season would increase. If Ole fails to enter top 4 then I think he should be sacked. If we are 5th and actually play good football like Leipzig or Liverpool or City (which is unlikely) then he can stay. Anything less then I don't see why we should keep him around when there would be better alternatives then.
Mourinho and Van Gaal were past it when they came to us. Mourinho literally had Chelsea in the relegation zone despite being the defending champions. He completely imploded and is not showing he is still one of the best at Spurs atm.
1. Klopps CV didnt help him..... err of course it fecking did. He was a huge draw to players going to liverpool. The only established players Ole can attract are rejects and/or money grabbers.
2. We’re making progress.... on what fecking planet has there been progress over the past year? We’re demonstrably worse off in terms of results performances consistency squad depth and confidence.
2. We’re making progress.... on what fecking planet has there been progress over the past year? We’re demonstrably worse off in terms of results performances consistency squad depth and confidence.
Our signings have generally been good, Fred has found his feet, Williams and Greenwood have been managed well enough that we’re possibly seeing them having their breakthrough seasons. Rashford’s on fire and Martial has been doing well also. But for injuries we would likely be in top four now. Don’t pretend we’ve not had positives this season.
So you’re saying rival fans wouldn’t want us to keep Ole?
Every team in the so called top six besides probably Liverpool had injuries. That’s no excuse. Who was all giddy before the start of the season and saying they happy with the squad. When it was clear after selling our £75m striker and letting Herrera go that we were players short in vital positions.
Klopp didn't inherit as much deadwood. Prior to him Rodgers was quite decent manager, he still is, the team he left pretty much suited the style of play Klopp likes. It took some minor tweeks but even so he didn't get them to CL right away.
I changed to sack. I really like Ole and I was desperate for him to succeed (I still want him to) but that 1st half vs Man City was evident enough that he's not in control of things. I also dislike inconsistency and this Manchester United team is the king of inconsistency. Sorry Ole.
You're right, I agree completely, we shouldn't compare two managers in two different clubs with different mentalities, but my point was not to compare two of them as managers but to say that opposing fans will laugh at anyone who is not getting results right away, and no one, not even great sir Alex Ferguson, got great results right away. The only way to get it is to go to already top side who just had a bit of a slump and we're not it, not anymore. We must rebuild.
If we had Klopp I'd stand by him as that's the decision we have taken, but we don't have him, do we? Personally I don't think his style would suit us in the long run and I am not sure if it will work for Liverpool in the long run either. We like to have a system that can combine experience with youth, and Klopp's system deflates after a few good seasons. Pressing football is not made to last, and apart form very high pressing game they don't really do much else. Both their defensive and offensive strategies are dependent on pressing, if it works well it's great but as soon as it fails the entire team drops off, they don't have any back up options to their game. When we were at top we were able to switch it up a bit, they really can't. I know it looks as if I'm grasping at straws here, but it's how I really think their system is.
On to Ole, and not to get overly defensive, but who'd do much better job with the team we have? Because Mourinho's second place finish was one off, not a regular occurance.
Press conference is never easy when the results don't meat expectations, but at least he is not blaming everything else and bragging how great he is like Mourinho did.
Liverpool broke records in the PL and got to the CL final in 17/18.
To say he hadn't got the team right by then just because the trophies didn't come is pure distortion of the reality.
The fact is, in his second season there was a huge improvement already.
Haha, look at Klopp’s line up in his first game in charge, then see if you can come back and post that again with a straight face
Oh, and yeah he did. First full season he was in a title race at xmas and ended in 4th.
Klopp’s first full season: in a title race at xmas, finished 4th.
SAF’s first full season: 2nd
Stop chatting shit la’
Absolutely correct. It's not "time on the job" that makes you good.
At the very elite of football, you have to make a case for yourself to be given that time. Ole hasn't, sadly.
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