What today showed(once again) is that we have some very good talents in our ranks and under proper manager we can end up top 4 this year.
Still Ole out asap.
Still Ole out asap.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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It’s genuinely amusing when people start to make arithmetical calculations, become upset wit the result of thereof, and present it as a valid reason to be ashamed of such a small name as United manager.
Hmm, I was expecting the Ole in brigade out in full force today. Weak showing so far.
The 'Ole out' brigade was accused of no show when we win, so decided to check in myself.
Yes
I'm still Ole in. Last match was bad, this match was good. The inconsistency I expect from the squad we have. Really excited for Wednesday.
Of course Ole should be given time. Today performence was good but whatever happened today don't mean anything looking at bigger picture. Changes take time and we are in the beggining of that. Our results will go up and down as we have mentioned over and over again.
I agree we should have some kind of Director of football.
If Pochettino comes, and he does what he has done in Tottenham, we would have exactly 0 trophies. Maybe he would do lot better here, maybe not. But for now I don't think he is the answer. The answer is time where we can make changes that needs to be done. Starting with buying right players.
They were not past it managers. They came to a club that was were fragile after Sir Alex Ferguson left and a club without any sorts of good plan for future. That is why we are where we are. Changing players and managers all the time didn't do us any good and made us more unstable.
I agree we should have some kind of Director of football.
Not for us. We know that regardless of todays score we need time and things will go up and down. But we have to have patience.
They’ve probably looked at our fixtures list
Burnley don't count ?
Well the out-brigade is in full force even when we win 4-0 - which really says everything
I'm not really sure why you are certain that Poch can't win trophies with Man Utd.
Is Ole looking likely to win big trophies with us because he won the norwegian league twice which is stratospheres lower than the PL. I'm certainly not seeing Ole looking to win trophies with us atm.
If you're looking someone with a hefty trophy cabinet there's Allegri.
The answer still lies elsewhere for me, sadly. Under him we’ll have good days like today but it’s not enough unless we’re willing to accept being a top six club and nothing more.
I never said he wouldn't win trophies here. I said he might be better here but also worse. Nobody knows. My reply is to a poster and I was saying that if he does the same thing here as in his previous clubs we would have 0 trophies.
You have to take the context. When was the last time someone won a major trophy with Spurs or Southampton? He knocked out Pep's City in the CL semifinals as well despite having key players like Harry Kane injured.
The most damning thing for poch has been Kane’s interviews since he left saying things like “yeah now we can think about needing to win trophy’s” and he thinks with Mou “I’m sure that can happen”. Basically suggesting it was something about Poch stopping them take that final step. And indeed it was, not being able to get results from the top 4 for a start. Horrid away record against them over several years with a decent spurs team.
You have to accept that different people have different criteria in judging a manager's ability. Some would only care about results and points, while some would consider other factors. But in both ways, I don't see any reason to keep Ole honestly.
In terms of results, both Pochettino and Emery were sacked in November, by then we had similar points and Ole should have been long gone by this standard. Lampard was out of the equation as his team had 9 more points and were in the top 4.
Yes the above analysis is indeed superficial. But even if we look deeper, I still don't see how Ole deserves to stay and Lampard deserves to be called out. Chelsea were banned for a transfer window and they couldn't do much in the market, while their star Hazard left for Madrid. Under these difficult circumstances, Lampard still manages to do well and gives extensive chances to youngsters like Abraham, Hudson-Odoi, Mount, James, etc. He also doesn't have major obvious weakness like how we struggle against weaker sides. Of course he had some bad time with back 3 and Kante, but he overcame the situation and turned things around. On the other hand, Ole had all the resources but he chose to invest 80m in Maguire. He claimed to provide opportunities to young players but they could barely get a chance. His philosophy is to play attacking football but we still can't find an attacking formula against smaller sides. I guess there's a reason why people call Ole out but not Lampard.
I doubt Poch actively tried to avoid winning trophies. Like telling his team pre-match talk for the CL final "Okay, let's throw this guys".
Twisting Kane's words a bit, don't you think?
I accept people having different criteria, only problem is when they don’t apply the criteria equally to others than Ole. Btw, you say you don’t see why Ole deserves to stay and Lampard to get called out, where on earth did I imply that? I’m just saying if the points haul is enough to call out Ole, then it should also cast doubt over Emery, Lampard and Pochettino.
As it happens I think that analysis is too superficial. Ole’s come into a far trickier situation than they did, in my book.
At least people seem to have stoped flip flopping. Ole out win lose or draw. The man isn't good enough to be a Man Utd manager.
We are 2 points ahead of sheff Utd. Were they in the PL last season?
Yeah because it's in his interest to say he wishes Poch was still there etc...
What is the purpose of your post? To say what? Another wierd comment to include to the witchhunting? So what if they are behind us by 2 points. We are couple of points ahead Tottenham. Were they in Champions League final last year? We are couple of points ahead of Tottenham and Mourinho. Does he have lot of titles?
It was to witchhunt.
I couldn't care how people vote but surprised it hasn't moved (given previous changes).
Was close to 50/50 not long ago then we had a couple of poor results (Arsenal, City) and it moved to almost 53/47.
Decent home win with front three all scoring and sticks...?
He's here until Summer (min) I think.
(Edit. I think to get a clearer idea, you either start the vote again so people are voting with some context... a reasonable term to judge him by. OR make it (1) sack (2) keep til end of season (3) keep full stop.
Mourinho is doing a poor job as well.
While non United fans, or WUMs posing as United fans continue to vote, there will be no accurate sample anyhow.
If they want to vote 'sack' let 'em, it's just a bit of harmless fun at the end of the day.
Umm I think you know fully well that non United fans are voting ‘Keep’
They love where we’re at right now with a mediocre manager at best
Chelsea are having a very similar season to United actually. In the last few weeks they have won away at Tottenham and Arsenal - very good results that reflect well on Lampard. They have also lost at home to West Ham, Bournemouth and Southampton though. Imagine the noise on here if we had lost those 3 home games, and yet you claim that only United struggle against weaker sides? They struggle for consistency in the same way that United do, because they have a new coach that is still getting to grips with the squad and they have a number of young players that will struggle to be consistent in this league, but they are being patient with them because they hope that the end will justify the mean - sounds awfully familiar doesn't it.
Squad wise Chelsea are stronger than we are. They have a lot more depth, particularly in forward areas. Yes they had a transfer ban and lost their best player in the summer too (we've lost Pogba too), but they were fortunate that they had an army of loaned-out talent that they could, and did, call upon. Abraham, James, Mount, Tomori & Pulisic are all effectively new signings. If Chelsea lose Abraham, they call on Batshuayi. Lose him, they have Giroud. Pedro, Willian, Pulisic & Hudson Odoi ensure they are always strong in attack. Their squad is deep - particularly in forward areas, and yet they have only scored 3 more league goals than a United team that are unable to rotate and are crippled by any injury we suffer.
If that's not enough then what about the fact that we've beaten them twice this season. 6-1 on aggregate so far.
Lets face it, neither Ole nor Lampard should have any concerns about being fired this season. Both clubs knew what they were taking on when they appointed these managers. Your post is a classic example of many that we see on here that have a problem with Ole and refuse to be balanced in the analysis.
And you've got proof of this?
Yip.
The transfer ban comment (ignoring the new players they still got, the loan players returning) is used frequently.
You'd expect fans of any club to flex slightly to their own manager first (natural bias?) but amazing that so many United fans seem determined to have an agenda against Ole (who, TO BE CLEAR, is not perfect).
I've voted 'keep' for now.
I was leaning towards voting 'sack' heading into December but those early wins against Spurs and City, along with some of the recent thrashings we've handed out to AZ, Newcastle and Norwich have warranted a stay of execution in my opinion.
I'm always going to look at our traditional champions league rivals for a relativity check and the fact is that we were ninth before the Spurs win back in early December, trailing them by 3 points, Arsenal by 1 and Chelsea by 8. We now lead Spurs by 4 ( 7 point gain,) Arsenal by 6 (7 point gain,) and have closed the gap to Chelsea.
Ed needs to back Ole with Bruno + one more, and let's see if there's more consistency for the last dozen or so matches once the new signings have settled and Pogba and Scott are back.
We've got a tough run ahead. Wolves (c), Liverpool, Burnley, City (c), Wolves again and Chelsea are our next six matches. 9 points against Burnley, Wolves and Chelsea are an absolute must if Ole's going to survive probable losses at Anfield and the Etihad.
I was leaning towards voting 'sack' heading into December but those early wins against Spurs and City, along with some of the recent thrashings we've handed out to AZ, Newcastle and Norwich have warranted a stay of execution in my opinion.
I'm always going to look at our traditional champions league rivals for a relativity check and the fact is that we were ninth before the Spurs win back in early December, trailing them by 3 points, Arsenal by 1 and Chelsea by 8. We now lead Spurs by 4 ( 7 point gain,) Arsenal by 6 (7 point gain,) and have closed the gap to Chelsea.
Ed needs to back Ole with Bruno + one more, and let's see if there's more consistency for the last dozen or so matches once the new signings have settled and Pogba and Scott are back.
We've got a tough run ahead. Wolves (c), Liverpool, Burnley, City (c), Wolves again and Chelsea are our next six matches. 9 points against Burnley, Wolves and Chelsea are an absolute must if Ole's going to survive probable losses at Anfield and the Etihad.
I was looking at our run-in the other day. We have a tough run up until mid-March when we have the City & Spurs fixtures back to back again. Its always futile looking further ahead than the next week in football, but in terms of our league season if we can stay within 5 points of Chelsea after that run ends, we then have the following set of fixtures:
Sheff Utd (h)
Brighton (a)
Bournemouth (h)
Villa (a)
Soton (h)
Palace (a)
West Ham (h)
Hopefully there will be quite a few Europa league ties in there to complicate matters, but on paper that is a dream run of fixtures that will lead us up to Leicester away on the final day. Pogba and McTominay will hopefully be back by then, and perhaps a January signing. I predict that Leicester will have a tough run of results too and get drawn into the pack. I think we have every chance of getting back there next season even without considering the Europa league being a second opportunity.
I don't think that's the case at all and adds nothing to the debate.
Even now after a "decent" December we still have only a 40.9% win-rate. It was below 40 before a game against the PL's worst side at the weekend. Chelsea on the other hand have a 54.5% win-rate.
There is no agenda, 99.9% of fans would love nothing more than to see Ole prove them wrong and finish the season 4th before making massive strides next season. It's simply that some fans expect a hell of a lot better and are of a different opinion regarding what some see as "reasons" and they see as "excuses". Stop trying to make it something it isn't.
If Man City or Liverpool had a poll to sack their managers, would you vote keep then as a United fan?
Come on mate it's pretty obvious as to why. They don't want us to get a serious manager. Do you blame them?
Or maybe people have a different opinion to you (on Ole posts, what they find acceptable/not, what they see as progress/not)?
It's a forum after all? For opinions?
I'll post what I think, you post what you think. It's all good. Chill.
All oppo fans (who are not WUMs, honest!) who voted keep (from the obvious ones):
- Dumbstar
- B20
- maniak
- PickledRed
- ThierryHenry
- Vato
- Rob
- SkeppyRed
- awop
- OutlawGER
- Wiltord02
- BigRedScouser
- Speedy30
- Oga on top.
- buck3y3nut
- Kops 'n' Robertsons
- BayernFan87
- RobinLFC
- Balotelli's Bib
- Cascarino
- Jack - City Fan
- UweBein
- P-Ro
- Liver_bird
- Gentleman Jim
- BBRBB
- LFCKop
- ThierryHenry14
- Dorian Gray
- Dancfc
- InLevyITrust
- Duncspur
- Shaw Mee Tah Mané
- Megadrive Man
- FirminoTeeth
Yeah, some opposing fans will vote to keep him, but they do so because they focus on the current form as if Solskjaer was the one to get us there. They won't focus on the project and what has been done within the club since he has taken over. A belief has returned to the club, and even though the current team is not good enough the club can still attract major players.
If you asked opposing fans was Klopp good for Liverpool after his first season most would laugh and say he's just like their previous managers. It takes time to get results.
I know our support for Solskjaer is not strong at the moment but I also say, whoever we get, impatient fans will always want him out if he didn't fix the team in less than a year.
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