Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[b82REZ]

Last seasons squad has been ripped apart, it’s a fresh start and a lot more changes to come hopefully.

You do remember all those games that were 0-0 at half time yet LVG was happy with that. Entertainment is bigger to me than winning, I’m enjoying football under Ole tenfold more than under him.

You are watching us through rose tinted glasses then because we are as bad, if not worse now.

Are we a counter attacking team or a possession based team? Ole doesn't look like he knows and that is criminal. He's been here 10 months now and we're no better off, if anything we're further behind than we were last year with a weaker squad.

I love Ole, but as a player, he's done nothing and is doing nothing to show he deserves the faith as manager, as much as it pains me to say.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

After those conversations I realised that if I took a turd in the United dugout and put a manager's pin on it. People will start singing about it and back it no matter how much it stinks.

Lovely analogy

Everyone I know wanted Jose out way before it happened though.

 

[Rory 7]

Yeah hence my very first post in this thread (& the one I quoted in the reply to you). I agree with that.

Hence my observation that those voting "Sack" are in essence supporting Woodward. And are, in essence, voting for more of the same crap from on-high.

 

[Cassidy]

Maguire has been fine. James is playing well and was good last night again. Not sure what you're seeing there to be honest.

He clearly intended Martial to lead the line with Rashford and Greenwood as secondary options. Unfortunately he got injured almost straight away leaving the pressure on Rashford who doesn't look ready to be the main man.

We would all agree that another attacker and a couple of midfielders would have left us in a much better position this season. We are definitely short on numbers. The last thing we should be doing though is signing the wrong players for the sake of numbers.

I'd rather wait than repeat any of the following mistakes:

Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, ADM, Falcao, Bailly, Darmian, Rojo, Mata, Matic, Fred, Mhkitaryan, Depay, Sanchez, Lukaku, Fellaini

The highlighted players all looked like good signings 7 games into their United careers. So no you cannot yet be signing off any signing thus far as being good

 

[b82REZ]

Have to disagree about LVG, he implemented nothing at all.
Agree though about 90s Liverpool.

Whether you enjoyed it or not, he did have a style. I hated it and LvGs final season was the closest I came to not watching every game.

 

[RedRover]

You make some great points, especially if Ole leaves who do we get in, there’s not much choice at the moment.

But I believe you don’t need world class players to put a system and style in place. Look at Leicester, they play nice football , Lampard at Chelsea is building a team, even bloody Norwich go in with with an identity.....we’re playing 1995 style football.

If we had Sancho, Rice and a striker in this system I can’t see us being that much better.

We lack quality in the final third and solidity in midfield and as such, I think we would be better with those players.

It's easy to point to Leicester this early in the season when they've had a good run. Will they realistically challenge for top 4 ov? I'd be surprised. That said they have quality in areas we don't especially with Maddison who looks like a top player in the making.

Chelsea, like us have been up and down. In any event I'd say they have better squad depth and more experience, being built on a side that won the title not that long ago. Again, are they top 4? I'm not sure they necessarily are.

I'm not sure what our identity is either but finding it that won't solve the problem if the squad lacks quality. You either need to build a system around the squad, or the other way around. The former isn't any use of the players aren't good enough, the latter requires the manager to identify players and the board to trust him and go and get them.

The bottom line for me is that you can have the best manager in the world but if you can't give him the players he needs to put his ideas into practice then you won't succeed. In my opinion the club needs to address things from the top down. There is no nexus between the business and footballing side. Another manager will have the same problems the others have had.

 

[Dec9003]

The funniest thing about this is that LVG had the most progressive philosophy out of Moyes, Ole and Jose. He was just the worst out of all the mentioned managers in terms of recruiting. LVG's philosophy with better recruitment would have made us a comfortable top 4 team with the occasional cup. LVG followed by managers like Pep or Tuchel would have had us back to challenging for titles.

You're probably right, I just think the majority of the fanbase hated the boring football Van Gaal loved.
Obviously Jose plays boring football too, but after winning two trophies in the first season and getting second place the season after he got more slack than Van Gaal.
Like you say, Pep after Van Gaal would've been fantastic for the club.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Hence my observation that those voting "Sack" are in essence supporting Woodward. And are, in essence, voting for more of the same crap from on-high.

I want Woodward out but see no benefit to sacking Ole just yet, the squad is massively lopsided to the level any top manager is going to struggle. Continually changing the manager just gives these players another excuse.

 

[Majima]

No I really think that is what the board are hoping for.

Regarding Fergie, Ole doesnt have close to his pedigree when stepping into the club but I dont think that matters to them. The new manager bounce provided a false dawn and they jumped on it salivating at the prospect of promoting youth, exciting football and results with the current squad, and cheap manager who would not whine to the media. They had gone with experienced managers previously and that was dour so Woodwards shit logic was try the opposite.

But whatever Fergie achieved at Aberdeen I doubt anyone posting today would give an f if we finished 2nd, 11th, 14th..... you think he would still be in a job? Mou had even more pedigree and even if he didnt throw his toys out the pram their is 0% chance he wouldn't get fired for that.

So back to the present strategy. It is to appoint a very inexperienced manager with a questionable track record who is an ex player passionate about United, promote youth, keep spending down, and pray for a miracle. Under those circumstances the miracle needs time. Oh well perhaps I am wumming.

I can see where you're coming from I agree, it mirrors a lot of what I've been thinking myself.

But under the present strategy, the only people to gain are the shareholders and the Glazers. It's all by design. Because of their reduced investment in the team, they are going to secure their profits and bonuses for each other, even with our revenue growth flatlining currently.

The only people who can't see they're all being taken for a ride under the current arrangement are the fans apparently.

 

[Dec9003]

It’s not that I’m upset they want Ole to stay. Clearly they just have faith no matter what.

But to say his football is enjoyable to watch is removed from reality

You don't get to decide if people prefer the football Ole plays compared to Van Gaal, it's subjective.

 

[Rory 7]

I want Woodward out but see no benefit to sacking Ole just yet, the squad is massively lopsided to the level any top manager is going to struggle. Continually changing the manager just gives these players another excuse.

correct.

 

[Bestietom]

Woody should have allowed Ole bring in a repacement for Lukaku and Sanchez before they were let go. He waited until the last day to let Lukaku go when the deal could have been done a long time before that, thus giving Ole time to look for a replacement.
Woody was not fair to Ole and broke his promises in not replacing Herrera and Fellaini as well as a striker for Lukaku and Sanchez. We wouldn't be in this situation now had he done this.

 

[b82REZ]

Maguire has been fine. James is playing well and was good last night again. Not sure what you're seeing there to be honest.

He clearly intended Martial to lead the line with Rashford and Greenwood as secondary options. Unfortunately he got injured almost straight away leaving the pressure on Rashford who doesn't look ready to be the main man.

We would all agree that another attacker and a couple of midfielders would have left us in a much better position this season. We are definitely short on numbers. The last thing we should be doing though is signing the wrong players for the sake of numbers.

I'd rather wait than repeat any of the following mistakes:

Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, ADM, Falcao, Bailly, Darmian, Rojo, Mata, Matic, Fred, Mhkitaryan, Depay, Sanchez, Lukaku, Fellaini

Fine is not good enough for a world record defender and James did feck all last night. Not being as bad as Lingard and Rashford doesn't mean he played well.

I do think long term James will be a good squad option but I have never seen, and remain to see what all the fuss is about with Maguire. An ordinary defender who got talked up because he's English and is fairly comfortable on the ball. I hope he proves me wrong but I expect us to be back in the market for a CB in a season or two.

We all agree we need to stop the scattergun approach to transfers but there's no excuse for going into this season with such a weak squad.

 

[Wolff]

Love it how Spurs and Pool fans vote for keep.

You voted keep didn’t you? Although for the obvious reason you just posted..

Plenty of posters have given their opinion to why, but always looking for that angle, aren’t we?

 

[SteveW]

The highlighted players all looked like good signings 7 games into their United careers. So no you cannot yet be signing off any signing thus far as being good

Most of the ones in bold were talented but a bad fit for the club for various reasons. ADM & Mhki were too soft for English football, Bailly is braindead, Matic is aging and Lukaku has a poor attitude. I don't see the same types of red flags with the new lads. All are young, hungry and comfortable in the English game. That's what is meant by finding players who are the right fit for the club. Ole's approach has been excellent in this regard.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Those of you voting sack are essentially voting to back Woodward and The Glazers. Nice.

That makes zero sense.

 

[el3mel]

Woody should have allowed Ole bring in a repacement for Lukaku and Sanchez before they were let go. He waited until the last day to let Lukaku go when the deal could have been done a long time before that, thus giving Ole time to look for a replacement.
Woody was not fair to Ole and broke his promises in not replacing Herrera and Fellain as well as a striker for Lukaku and Sanchez. We wouldn't be in this situation now had he done this.

That doesn't make any sense. Both didn't play a single minute in the preseason and Lukaku was negotiating with Inter the whole summer. When the deal gets concluded was just a matter of time, and he was completely out of Ole's plans. We had far more than enough time to secure a replacement if we wanted to, but the only striker we were interested in the whole summer was Mandzukic and that happened late during the window.

Lukaku wasn't in Ole's plans since the end of last season and it was obvious both of them aren't on the same line, thus the idea of us waiting to sell Lukaku first to buy his replacement doesn't make any kind of sense. Not like Lukaku was Ole's first choice and was surprised to see him leaving. In fact, Ole should have given Woodward a list of strikers to negotiate with since the beginning of the summer.

Another point is waiting till you sell your striker then try to sign a replacement will make the clubs you're trying negotiate with try to bully you for a very heavy price tag for their striker because they will know you're desperate to sign anyone, unlike negotiating with clubs while you still had your striker and didn't sell him yet, they'll understand you can cancel the idea of him leaving and thus not sign anyone.

More importantly if things were going that bad and we were very late in that market why didn't we just cancel the deal and refuse to sell Lukaku because we failed to get his replacement and there's no more time for this ?

 

[Maccataq]

Keep, not even God will get this team to win consistently. Anyways, I can't see him staying next year.

Maybe not God but I reckon Fergie would

 

[el3mel]

Those of you voting sack are essentially voting to back Woodward and The Glazers. Nice.

So let's keep a terrible manager to show that we want Glazers and Ed out ? Makes total sense yeah.

You guys need to realize even with Woodward getting sacked or Glazers leaving, it won't change the obvious fact that Ole isn't the right manager for us.

 

[shaky]

You don't get to decide if people prefer the football Ole plays compared to Van Gaal, it's subjective.

AT least Ole's poor football probably isn't intentional. Even when LVG got it going to plan, it was still dire to watch.

 

[SteveW]

Fine is not good enough for a world record defender and James did feck all last night. Not being as bad as Lingard and Rashford doesn't mean he played well.

I do think long term James will be a good squad option but I have never seen, and remain to see what all the fuss is about with Maguire. An ordinary defender who got talked up because he's English and is fairly comfortable on the ball. I hope he proves me wrong but I expect us to be back in the market for a CB in a season or two.

We all agree we need to stop the scattergun approach to transfers but there's no excuse for going into this season with such a weak squad.

I meant fine relative to his price and standing. He's improved us. Unfortunately his CB partner has been poor. You may well be right about going back into the market but it will be to find a partner for Maguire if so. James was good last night. Pretty sure there's a solid consensus on that point.

I definitely agree we needed more this summer. Not signing a midfielder was very risky and it looks like costing us. I'd still prefer that than signing a player we'd end up wanting rid of.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I feel harsh for saying sack because of who he is but the buck stops with the manager.

The timing of his appointment was perfect for him because he knew he couldn't lose - win a few games and the board might be too weak to say thanks but we'll take it from here (as ended up happening), lose a few games and he was only a caretaker manager anyway.

As it turned out, morale was lower than a snake's belly and any manager worth his salt could have given us a positive end to the season.

For the board to turn around after this and say he was worthy of the post full time was ludicrous.

Think of the teams with whom we are trying to compete - the obvious ones being Liverpool and City (if we're punching for the top straight away) and after that Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs.

And look at the ambition of their most recent managerial appointments compared to ours, what those guys have achieved in top level football in Europe. Obviously the exception is Lampard but firstly I think the Championship is miles ahead of the Norwegian top division and secondly with the transfer ban in place I think Chelsea are in an entirely different position to us and needed an old head to steady the ship - let's face it I think they would have been happy with 6th at the start of the season.

But United, not being in that position should have been looking to really kick on and I just don't feel inspired. We are already starting to get in to a position where top players will pick other sides ahead of us - something that was unthinkable under SAF.

Once you start to lose your grip on that kind of position it's very hard to regain it, it will take a marquee player like Messi or Ronaldo, or a manager who the player looks at thinks yes, he's here for 5 years minimum and will win trophies.

If either of those aforementioned players were available right now, there's absolutely nothing to make them want to join us.

So although I'm not about to get an 'OGS out' placard made, the appointment stunk of lack of ambition and says to me that the board are happy for the time being just to sit back and flirt with the top 4.

Having said all of that the person associated with MUFC with whom I am most disappointed by a country mile is Paul Pogba but this obviously isn't the thread for that.

 

[hobbers]

AT least Ole's poor football probably isn't intentional. Even when LVG got it going to plan, it was still dire to watch.

To be fair there were several big games where the plan worked and produced great football. Spurs and Liverpool away spring to mind.

At the moment we couldn't even craft a good game of football at home to Watford or Sheffield. That's where Ole is right now.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Just accept the fact the good days are over for the foreseeable.

Its a complete rebuild. Were not good enough for the champions league. So whats the point in qualifying?

Give him two more windows to cut the shite loose.

We've still too many crap players

 

[Ban]

So let's keep a terrible manager to show that we want Glazers and Ed out ? Makes total sense yeah.

You guys need to realize even with Woodward getting sacked or Glazers leaving, it won't change the obvious fact that Ole isn't the right manager for us.

Ed won't get the sack though and Glazers won't leave. Ed will outlive a 4th manager he appointed and I'd say that's the biggest problem right now, not the actual manager.

 

[Tiber]

Why? The next manager will still have to try win games with Lingard, Young and co

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

I feel harsh for saying sack because of who he is but the buck stops with the manager.

The timing of his appointment was perfect for him because he knew he couldn't lose - win a few games and the board might be too weak to say thanks but we'll take it from here (as ended up happening), lose a few games and he was only a caretaker manager anyway.

As it turned out, morale was lower than a snake's belly and any manager worth his salt could have given us a positive end to the season.

For the board to turn around after this and say he was worthy of the post full time was ludicrous.

Think of the teams with whom we are trying to compete - the obvious ones being Liverpool and City (if we're punching for the top straight away) and after that Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs.

And look at the ambition of their most recent managerial appointments compared to ours, what those guys have achieved in top level football in Europe. Obviously the exception is Lampard but firstly I think the Championship is miles ahead of the Norwegian top division and secondly with the transfer ban in place I think Chelsea are in an entirely different position to us and needed an old head to steady the ship - let's face it I think they would have been happy with 6th at the start of the season.

But United, not being in that position should have been looking to really kick on and I just don't feel inspired. We are already starting to get in to a position where top players will pick other sides ahead of us - something that was unthinkable under SAF.

Once you start to lose your grip on that kind of position it's very hard to regain it, it will take a marquee player like Messi or Ronaldo, or a manager who the player looks at thinks yes, he's here for 5 years minimum and will win trophies.

If either of those aforementioned players were available right now, there's absolutely nothing to make them want to join us.

So although I'm not about to get an 'OGS out' placard made, the appointment stunk of lack of ambition and says to me that the board are happy for the time being just to sit back and flirt with the top 4.

Having said all of that the person associated with MUFC with whom I am most disappointed by a country mile is Paul Pogba but this obviously isn't the thread for that.

You really shouldn’t feel that way, and you’re probably not alone.
You can still love Ole the United legend and not back Ole the failing manager, the two should never be connected or else we’d be in serious trouble.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Why? The next manager will still have to try win games with Lingard, Young and co

Yeah, so? good managers win matches with worse players all the time.

 

[Code-CX]

He should have been used a stop-gap until the end of last season while the board took their time to make an astute decision regarding who our next manager should be. Unfortunately, Woodward/Glazers are completely useless and they based their decision on a (completely fortuitous) small set of games. The way I see it is Ole is on of the long list of problems we have at this club. We need wholesale structural changes from the top-down and unless you're a miracle worker, we won't be challenging for anything significant anytime soon. With that being said, he's just not a good manager. I don't care how you'd like to sugarcoat it, we're tenth. Our play-style is non-existent and I see no difference between the way we're playing right now and the end of Mourinho's time here. It's just boring and tepid counter-attacking football which we have no idea how to properly execute. I honestly don't think he's any better than Moyes was (he's arguably doing worse at the moment) and the only reason he seems to garner this huge amount of support is due to his legend status. Any other manager, with the credentials that Ole has, would have been absolutely lambasted on here. I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if I could wholeheartedly say there were improvements on the pitch, but we just keep going backwards.

 

[Rory 7]

That makes zero sense.

Nice.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Those of you voting sack are essentially voting to back Woodward and The Glazers. Nice.

Nice logic there.

 

[Rory 7]

So let's keep a terrible manager to show that we want Glazers and Ed out ? Makes total sense yeah.

You guys need to realize even with Woodward getting sacked or Glazers leaving, it won't change the obvious fact that Ole isn't the right manager for us.

So IF Woodward sacks Ole in the morning, that is the 'right' thing for the club.
Looks like more the same mismanagement of the club to me.

 

[Rory 7]

Nice logic there.

Thanks.

 

[Class of 63]

This meaningless nonsense again. Did Pep know City inside and out to become a success, what about Klopp at Liverpool or the other numerous managers who can do the basics and get their players punching above their weight? You are either a good manager or not. Dalglish knew Liverpool inside and out and still failed. Means absolutely feck all!

It's not nonsense at all, Manchester United is a unique stand-alone club, every man and his dog has an opinion about us, and isn't slow coming forward sharing those opinions, it's beyond laughable now - the scrutiny on Liverpool and City combined doesn't come anywhere close to the scrutiny on United making it a damn sight easier to go into those clubs and be successful.

Ole might not be the answer, but i'd rather have somebody who knows the club inside and out trying to re-stabilise us than have somebody new come in who for the first 6 months would be wondering what the hell they'd just walked into.

And on Dalglish, he was a success at Liverpool initially, it was the Heysel and/or Hillsborough disaster(s)that derailed him.

 

[Enigma_87]

You voted keep didn’t you? Although for the obvious reason you just posted..

Plenty of posters have given their opinion to why, but always looking for that angle, aren’t we?

I’ve explained my reasoning and I’m at a point that this season is probably gone anyway. Best chance he will be gone by the end of October and we will be again with a short squad and no way of coming back to challenge for top 4.

That angle was because as other mentioned we had similar results for Moyes.

I’m pretty sure opposition fans are happy with us having Ole at the moment.

 

[Castia]

We lack quality in the final third and solidity in midfield and as such, I think we would be better with those players.

It's easy to point to Leicester this early in the season when they've had a good run. Will they realistically challenge for top 4 ov? I'd be surprised. That said they have quality in areas we don't especially with Maddison who looks like a top player in the making.

Chelsea, like us have been up and down. In any event I'd say they have better squad depth and more experience, being built on a side that won the title not that long ago. Again, are they top 4? I'm not sure they necessarily are.

I'm not sure what our identity is either but finding it that won't solve the problem if the squad lacks quality. You either need to build a system around the squad, or the other way around. The former isn't any use of the players aren't good enough, the latter requires the manager to identify players and the board to trust him and go and get them.

The bottom line for me is that you can have the best manager in the world but if you can't give him the players he needs to put his ideas into practice then you won't succeed. In my opinion the club needs to address things from the top down. There is no nexus between the business and footballing side. Another manager will have the same problems the others have had.

True I’m not even expecting much from us. The squad looks a mess and it’s going to be a struggle for top 4 but again you don’t need world class players to at least have a game plan. That’s my biggest worry, we generally look clueless.

I can take the losses if it looks like we’re on the right track. Chelsea will lose games this season, but add players to their system they will improve without a doubt.....add players to this United system I’m not sure how much better we’ll be.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

It's not nonsense at all, Manchester United is a unique stand-alone club, every man and his dog has an opinion about us, and isn't slow coming forward sharing those opinions, it's beyond laughable now - the scrutiny on Liverpool and City combined doesn't come anywhere close to the scrutiny on United making it a damn sight easier to go into those clubs and be successful.

Ole might not be the answer, but i'd rather have somebody who knows the club inside and out trying to re-stabilise us than have somebody new come in who for the first 6 months would be wondering what the hell they'd just walked into.

And on Dalglish, he was a success at Liverpool initially, it was the Heysel and/or Hillsborough disaster(s)that derailed him.

What does it even mean “he knows the club”?
He doesn’t know the club though, as it is as different club that it was when SAF was around, the club was built on him, he rebuilt it, he was the most important man at the club and he was in control of everything.
Just because Ole knows the tea-lady from the good ol’ days means absolutely nothing it all.
Many things changed at the club since then, people should realize it.
It’s the same crest and the same stadium but behind the scenes almost everything has changed.
It will never be the same Fergie club again, because the man isn’t in charge anymore, the priorities are different, the CEO is different, it’s more of a brand than an actual football club at this point.

 

[SplitzMagic]

It's crazy that people want him to stay in the job simply because we've had too many managerial changes.

He needs to go and so does Woodward. It's complex simplicity.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Evra a Champions League finalist before he joined Manchester United and included French Ligue team of the year. Am sure he was difficult to spot.

It's like saying De Ligt was unknown player before Juventus signed him.

What I'm saying is Vidic and Evra weren't being touted as top players wanted by every club like De Ligt. They were more or less brought in under the radar. I'm not saying AWB and Maquire are bad signings, not by any means but signing one of the best RBs in the 2018/2019 season and signing one of the best CBs is hardly great knowledge in the transfer market as many here believe.

People are using the excuse that he got rid of players, players my 10 year old nephew could of got rid of and he brought in players who many of us touted on forums as possible targets as a reason for him to carry on as manager. They don't seem to care that he's tactically useless.

I keep asking the same question but no one seems to have the answer. Other than get rid of obvious targets and bring in more obvious targets what exactly has Ole done to be considered the man to take us back to the top? Because I'm at a complete loss. It's nothing personal against Ole but I do care for my club more than I care about Ole.

 

[el3mel]

Ed won't get the sack though and Glazers won't leave. Ed will outlive a 4th manager he appointed and I'd say that's the biggest problem right now, not the actual manager.

I don't disagree with this, however it doesn't make Ole any kind of blameless.

So IF Woodward sacks Ole in the morning, that is the 'right' thing for the club.
Looks like more the same mismanagement of the club to me.

Yes it's. Ole is a terrible manager, regardless of our opinion on Woodward. Being Ole out camp doesn't necessary makes any of us Woodward or Glazers in. That's kinda naive to think like that.