What's a transition team?
Workrate
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Counter-attacking teams. Doesn't mean they park the bus, just that when they dispossess the other team, they try to take advantage of the opponents lack of defensive shape as quickly and as directly as possible, instead of passing it around the back four and keeper as the other team falls back into tactical organization.
I heard this too during the stoke match and was quite shocked. Surely that cant be right?
Yes we are a relatively immobile and slow team, but we arent THAT bad are we?
Having said that, we are a far cry from the constant pressing menace that the dippers are. Would like to see more of that but I doubt it will happen with Ibra upfront and Carrick in midfield.
I don't even think we're an immobile team.Our best XI only has two players that can't move.
Oliver Kay obviously knows where to find these data. Surely a caftard can sniff it out?
Work rate is at times overrated. Just look at Burnley. Optimal work rate, minimal return. The real key is applying work rate with footballing intelligence. All successful teams consistently do that.
They're from Opta which is behind a paywall. Don't know if any Caftard will have access.
So you're saying workrate is actually dead important so long as they're also good at football?
Look at Burnley?
A team with a lot of championship standard players, who have to work their asses off to get anything
If they stopped working hard they would be gone
Burnley are 12th in the EPL.
Just being able to say that suggests optimal work rate is kind of handy.
Why is everyone talking about Burnley?
If we're looking for examples of a club perhaps working too hard, wouldn't Liverpool's dreadful run in January be the most obvious?
If we're looking for examples of a club perhaps working too hard, wouldn't Liverpool's dreadful run in January be the most obvious?
I don't think that's what the poster who brought up Burnley was trying to prove. He couldn't have picked a worse example really.
Diffcult to say Liverpool's form is down to fatigue. Most teams have a bad run at some point.
Work smart not hard.
Look at Klopp's busy fools.
Look at Klopp's busy fools.
I was thinking yesterday that I actually think we've dropped off a little in recent weeks which has lead to poorer performances and a few dropped points but I think it's been intentional (not so much the dropped points). Mourinho has had them playing in 2nd or 3rd gear for a while and I think that despite what he says about 1 game at a time, he's had his eye on the upcoming fixtures and he's coaching them so they peak at the optimial time. Pogba has definitely been more economical with his energy in recent weeks after crusading around the pitch during his better form.
Fergie was a master at this, he'd coach them like Olympic sprinters who spend the season building up to a main event. That main event for us was the end of March to May. He changed that approach around 05/06 though when he realised that competition was too tight not to get off to a strong start.
I think everyone's a little flat after the hectic run of fixtures at the turn of the year. Liverpool are flatter than most and it does seem likely to be mainly physical. It's not as though this wasn't predicted.
Yeah but this whole thing about Klopp overworking players is based on that final season at Dortmund. It's just a theory that's somehow become fact.
To me it's more likely a run of bad form compounded by not having a centre forward. They've nobody who can get them a winning goal goal whilst playing badly.
It was a theory before they collapsed. Now it's a lot less theoretical. The results speak for themselves.
Of course, what would really seal the deal would be some metrics about Liverpool's workrate over the last month. If that's fallen off a cliff then the theory really has become fact. I'd love to see that data.
I don't see how. One bad season doesn't prove much in my opinion.
Someone in one of those threads said a week ago that their numbers in term of distance covering etc are more or less the same as before.
But I don't know how true it is and I am too lazy to find the stats or who posted it where (probably in klopp's thread).
I think Liverpool players run as much as before but their confidence is gone. Coutinho isn't on form, Firmino and Origgi don't score enough, Mane was absent for most games recently, etc. Their main problem isn't fatigue but lack of quality on the bench. They have the worst squad in the top 6.
Thought this thread was going to be where Jesse Lingard defenders all post. Maybe not.
What is work rate? Benzema and Ronaldo.
As someone following Madrid this is just a frustrating topic. There were times when they made up for their laziness but atm it just leaves you frustrated. And there doesn't seem to be anything a coach could do, these guys won't care anyway. At times they even infected Bale with the virus.
I wonder what is going on in their heads.
As someone following Madrid this is just a frustrating topic. There were times when they made up for their laziness but atm it just leaves you frustrated. And there doesn't seem to be anything a coach could do, these guys won't care anyway. At times they even infected Bale with the virus.
I wonder what is going on in their heads.
Come April we will still be playing with all our players and Liverpool would've lost half its team to injury. I agree that Jurgen's strategy of high press is intense but our team cannot and should not play like that. We have many more games to play than Liverpool and if you have watched Liverpool in recent weeks, they're losing because teams are reading their press well. It's quite easy to beat Liverpool on your best day, wait late and pass quick. Jose's sitting back will work for us but our passing needs to be quick and square. We played well against Leicester, we passed square from the back and moved faster, thanks to MkhiT.
Jurgen played high press at Dortmund with a team that had players who had a very high work rate, in our team now we hardly have such. Mata, Herrera and Fellaini are the only ones who run towards the opp players. It is Jose's way. The ones who don't press- Martial, Pogba, Zlatan, the defenders. We sit back and intrude and play on the break but not fast enough.
Expounding energy intelligently is not reliant on being good at football. Its reliant on excellent coaching. Succesful clubs combine that coaching with the players good at football. But lesser talented teams can be drilled do it to. That's how for example Atletico for example were able to snatch a title from Real and Barca. They became one of the best in Europe at employing work rate intelligently.
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There is working their asses off and not doing it intelligently enough. I have no issues with their work rate. I just believe it can be utilized more intelligently.
Sell Benzema already! Morata will take care of the rest..
I wonder if workrate differential per match is a more relevant stat. Different matches get played at different tempos, so seeing how consistent you're working more than your opponent may be more descriptive than just the average of a team per match.
Nah, yeah I was only being an arse. We need to up both and do it with a bit more pace to boot.
So you think Burnley should/could be doing better? They're only 16 points behind us, an amazing achievement given resources etc.
I think Burnley are a perfect example of what work rate can do. I don't see any lack of intelligence in the way they go about their game.
Yes I do. They have it in them to be much better away from home than they currently are. IMHO their resources matter little. They recruit well consistently and are largely coached well organization wise. I just feel though they could be even more dangerous going forward. Especially on counter attacks away from their ground. And with how they defend, that would assure the permanent midtable safety.
Might as well bump this, seeing as there's new data being discussed in the Martial thread.
We're still running less than any other team. What's that all about, then?
We're still running less than any other team. What's that all about, then?
I like managers who prefer to make the ball work......
Turns out Liverpools' workrate doesn't seem to have dropped off at all. 116.2km/game when this thread was started (4 games played) and 116.9km/game as of today (33 games played).
We do spend a lot of time camped in the opposition half failing to convert chances, not as much hard running when you're in control of the game.
How's our possession compared with other teams?
5th. Hardly anything between Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. City are first with 60%.
It's definitely a tactical thing. We ran much further in previous seasons.
I wonder is it linked to our (relatively) injury free campaign?
I wonder is it linked to our (relatively) injury free campaign?
That would make sense then, wouldn't it? Less running around if you've kept hold of the ball longer as you're not chasing it down to get it back.
Although if we ran more under LVG I'm slightly confused by that.
To retain possession you have to run more as all your players are on the move to receive ball. One of the reason why Barca always clocked higher distance even when they played with relaxed mode on.
If you are playing defensive then few of the players are stationed in the box and distance covered is less. Not saying that's the reason for our low work rate, I think it's because our players play calculated game. Once you take the lead we just drop off and save energy. Can't blame them as we played way too many games.
You say that but our off the ball movement has been awful at times!