Workrate

noodlehair said:
Even if this is the case, professional pride seems to kick in worryingly rarely for a group of professional athletes. It is baffling how someone makes it to the top level when they only take pride in their performance at rare moments of their choosing. Does this happen anywhere near as often in any other sport?
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No, but there isn't any other sport that has so much significance on the manager/coach. The role of the manager has become so much more magnified with everything they do analysed, and things they don't do pondered.

Souness tells the story often about joining Liverpool and asking Paisley what he wants from him. Paisley responded "We spent all that money on you and you're asking us how to play football."

In other words, in those days the mindset was players make tactics work. Whereas now we make excuses for players. For Pogba for example it's the tactics that make him work or not work. And he knows the manager takes the blows for his lack of performances and he knows in the commercial world of football....he is the asset. You can't change 25 players at once but you can change the manager at any time.
 
It's baffeling. I doubt you have a chance of competing today if you are at the bottom half of the table.

Anyone know how the stats was for Chelsea in 2014/15, when they won it under Mou?
 
It's the easiest thing in the world to sprint around like a headless chicken.

The players can do it. Any player (of any decent athletic ability) can do it.

It's strategy. It's bloody infuriating.
 
Remember when we had Rooney and Tevez covering the whole pitch? I bet those two alone back then covered more ground in a game than our current 11 combined. It feels like that anyway.
 
donkeyfish said:
Just as it was specific to LvG, who had the same run less is better idea.
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For distance covered we definitely ran more under LvG. Sky even did a comparison article before and it (running) was part of it. And that's pretty incredible given the sort of football Van Gaal wanted and dynamic football we thought we might get under Mourinho.

Sprints I believe were pretty similar at that time (but this was last season and we've gotten significantly worse under Mourinho this season with sprints).
 
Minimalist said:
For distance covered we definitely ran more under LvG. Sky even did a comparison article before and it (running) was part of it. And that's pretty incredible given the sort of football Van Gaal wanted and dynamic football we thought we might get under Mourinho.

Sprints I believe were pretty similar at that time (but this was last season and we've gotten significantly worse under Mourinho this season with sprints).
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I said in another thread that although i'm no fan of what LVG did when he was here we did actually press pretty well as a team with him in charge (especially in the big games). We just had no clue how to attack.

The energy levels in this team just seem shocking. As bad as the Moyes era when he allegedly claimed he couldn't get any energy out of the players.
 
I think I'm going to stop saying he hasn't lost the dressing room at this point. Just because we aren't getting tonked, doesn't mean the players are still with him. They don't seem to give a feck.
 
Minimalist said:
For distance covered we definitely ran more under LvG. Sky even did a comparison article before and it (running) was part of it. And that's pretty incredible given the sort of football Van Gaal wanted and dynamic football we thought we might get under Mourinho.

Sprints I believe were pretty similar at that time (but this was last season and we've gotten significantly worse under Mourinho this season with sprints).
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This is true actually it seems from my check, I was wrong. He did write in his book about how you should run as little as possible though, which is were I have it from.
 
It is Mourinho. Of course some players also dont give a shit, but it is definitely Mourinho. If it is purely tactical and/or some motivation, is open, but Jose is the denomiator here.
 
donkeyfish said:
This is true actually it seems from my check, I was wrong. He did write in his book about how you should run as little as possible though, which is were I have it from.
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Yeah he often said 'the ball moves faster than any player' or words to that effect. It's actually true to be fair in a perfect world, you run as much as you need to.
 
Has a Jose team ever had such a terrible workrate? The Chelsea team that was near the relegation side? I swear we've even worse than them though.

I just don't get it, he seems to have completely lost whatever made him special.
 
Mourinho's teams don't press. That's a legacy thing. He just doesn't set them out to do it. He prefers a compact block. That's fine in theory. Pressing isnt an inherently superior system. It's all about how it's implemented. Unfortunately our system just doesn't work. It places a lot of emphasis on the defensive qualities of our centre backs and deeper midfielders. That's fine if you're Atletico Madrid who have quality there. But we just don't. Our players haven't improved one iota under Mourinho. That's all on him. If he wants that system to succeed he needs to improve what he has. He just hasn't.

Then there's the Matic problem. He hasn't played well since January. He doesn't have the legs to cover the passing lanes and his own passing has gone down the drain. And whenwin possession he tkes two or three extra touches which kills any possibility of a counter.
 
It's been like this for two years. When what you do isn't working you try and change things.
 
No matter which manager we have if they play Matic, Fellaini, Pogba, Martial and Lukaku then our workrate stats are going to be horrendous. It isn't a tactic to stand around like statues, it's a byproduct of appalling team selection.

Play Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Herrera and Sanchez instead (or at least 3-4 of them) and we'd see a huge improvement in this regard.
 
finneh said:
No matter which manager we have if they play Matic, Fellaini, Pogba, Martial and Lukaku then our workrate stats are going to be horrendous. It isn't a tactic to stand around like statues, it's a byproduct of appalling team selection.

Play Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Herrera and Sanchez instead (or at least 3-4 of them) and we'd see a huge improvement in this regard.
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It is a tactic though, we stand off teams and let them come onto us in a low block, which translates to lack of pressing and workfare.
 
finneh said:
No matter which manager we have if they play Matic, Fellaini, Pogba, Martial and Lukaku then our workrate stats are going to be horrendous. It isn't a tactic to stand around like statues, it's a byproduct of appalling team selection.

Play Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Herrera and Sanchez instead (or at least 3-4 of them) and we'd see a huge improvement in this regard.
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He has options.
 
Giant Midget said:
It is a tactic though, we stand off teams and let them come onto us in a low block, which translates to lack of pressing and workfare.
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Lingard doesn't stand off teams when he plays. Herrera likewise. Rashford likewise. Hell even Mata tries to defend from the front. The players that stand off are the lazy players that strangely get selected every week.

A spine of Matic, Pogba, Fellaini and Lukaku simply don't cover enough ground. It's not even that they stand off, they simply allow the opposition to waltz past them.

If I were a midfielder I'd love playing against United. I'd receive the ball 5 yards from Lukaku who'd slowly amble towards me whilst I ran into the middle third. In front of me I'd see Pogba, Fellaini and Matic who're all absolute statues, meaning my teammates in front of me would find acres of space. I'd pass the ball and there'd be a clear run at two mediocre centre halves. Even if my teammates lost the ball I'd know I'd easily get back quickly enough to cover, that's if Lukaku's first touch didn't immediately give the ball back to me.

Conversely I'd hate playing against a front 6 that included Herrera, Rashford, Fred, Sanchez, Mata & Lingard; even if they aren't as talented as say Pogba.

Red Katie said:
He has options.
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Agreed - hence the appalling team selection comment.
 
Build a team around lanky guys and expect them to hustle, brehs
 
If you do not have the technical skills, some can be compensated by working harder. Obviously, many of the players have trouble with both parts and it bother me.

They should have the ability to play faster and push the opponents more than they do, especially against teams further down the table. Fitness training should not be a problem, it must be the lack of motivation.
 
Liverpool 3:1 Man Utd
Anyone else find Mourinho’s comments about Robertson really fecking bizarre in the context of this thread?!

They play 200 miles per hour with and without the ball. I am still tired just looking at Robertson! He makes 100 metre sprints per minute, absolutely incredible, and these are qualities.
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If he admires these qualities in the opposition, why on earth can’t/won’t he get the same effort out of his own team?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else find Mourinho’s comments about Robertson really fecking bizarre in the context of this thread?!



If he admires these qualities in the opposition, why on earth can’t/won’t he get the same effort out of his own team?
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The man is talking shit. He waxes lyrical about intensity and speed while sticking with Lukaku up top, while insisting on Matic, while removing the only mobile midifelder on the pitch and bringing on Fellaini.
I wouldn't believe this spoofer if he told me the sky was blue.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else find Mourinho’s comments about Robertson really fecking bizarre in the context of this thread?!



If he admires these qualities in the opposition, why on earth can’t/won’t he get the same effort out of his own team?
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This is just one more "opponents are too good for my team" excuse.

Obviously Liverpool play with high intensity and have superb physicality (in terms of stamina) as Klopp makes them work very much on it. Klopp, Conte, Pep and there are many who are obsessed with conditioning of players and make sure they are in top physical condition to make number of sprints.
 
Liverpool don't just magically have speed and intensity.
Klopp has been working on it since day 1. The man is not a coach.
 
I wonder what are training sessions are like, compared to other top clubs.

Looking at our performances my guess would be about half of it is spent on jogging in circles, while the rest is spent playing 7-a side with no clear instructions. Followed up by Instagram updates in the dressing room.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone else find Mourinho’s comments about Robertson really fecking bizarre in the context of this thread?!



If he admires these qualities in the opposition, why on earth can’t/won’t he get the same effort out of his own team?
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He has been moaning about players not running enough for a while. Given that he didn't complain about it last two seasons, can only imagine that he's just throwing all sorts of shit at the wall hoping some would stick and direct attention away from himself to his players. Either that or he has lost control of his players.
 
Just a further embarrassing thing for the manager to say to round off a day of complete embarrassment.
 
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