This is just stupid. Woody completes a few signings, Woody is God. Papers link United with everyone who is not playing for United, no more signings as yet and Woody now is incompetent. Can you people make your damn minds up? The window is still open. You cats have short memories, silly season has been like this for a while at United. Gill and Fergie didn't do great business for years.
Woodward (old thread)
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See, this is the argument which I don't understand. Yes, Ferguson and Gill made a lot of mistakes in the transfer market in the latter years, but that doesn't mean we should accept that as par for course. We should be striving to do much better when competing for better players. This was the same logic that people were using to defend Moyes last year, that he should be given space because our football has has sh!t for years. Well, it was his bloody job to make our football not sh!t and we removed him and got someone else to do that. Similarly, it's Woodward's job to get the players and if he fails we should get someone who manages to push these deals through. Of course, it could all change in the next 2-3 weeks but right now with the season starting in 2 days, it's not looking pretty.
Completing signings doesn't make Woody a god in my book, all it means is he's done the job he's paid to do.
I think it's not the fact that we don't sign every player under the sun linked with us by the papers that is getting people agitated, it's the fact that there are well documented deficiencies in the squad and with two days to go to the first game of the season we're no nearer addressing them than we were on the last day of last season.
He won't blame the hand that feeds him. Not even SAF had ever done that
Tbf. Woodie has a lot of traffic going out as well as a few coming in.
We are all focused on incoming traffic whereas, there are quite a few more going out which are also Woodie's responsibility.
I hope its just not the same smallish team that has to handle all this movements. He should get a few of the transfer geniuses/muppets from the forum to help out.
We are all focused on incoming traffic whereas, there are quite a few more going out which are also Woodie's responsibility.
I hope its just not the same smallish team that has to handle all this movements. He should get a few of the transfer geniuses/muppets from the forum to help out.
Deep down the majority of Manchester United supporters know that the club was and will never be a top dog in terms of transfers. Hence why Woody and Gill yearly muppet speech is uncalled for and counterproductive. Clubs do underrate the fans at times. Time and time again had shown that if the club is honest with the fans then they probably understand and lower their expectations accordingly. That what happened for example at clubs like AC Milan who had to adapt from being the top guns in the transfer market to accepting a much modest role. Its a shame that we still stick to the 'biggest club in the world' BS when we neither have the trophies nor the financial muscle to back that. We're the biggest franchise and the most supported club in the world but we're certainly not the biggest club.
Having said that it would be a tragedy if we don't bring anyone else to strengthen the team. Both defense and midfield is screaming for new talent. There are also a number of gettable players that would certainly prove an asset at OT. Players like Blind and Rojo are decent talent which can cover 2-3 roles. I hope we step for them before they are snapped by other clubs making them ungettable
Having said that it would be a tragedy if we don't bring anyone else to strengthen the team. Both defense and midfield is screaming for new talent. There are also a number of gettable players that would certainly prove an asset at OT. Players like Blind and Rojo are decent talent which can cover 2-3 roles. I hope we step for them before they are snapped by other clubs making them ungettable
I maintain my stance from last season- transfer-wise Woodie is an idiot.
He's certainly done nothing to dispel that view, in spite of all the excuses made on his behalf on here.
Why can't the club put him back in his old role? His clearly a beast on the commercial/sponsorship side of things but it seems he doesn't really know how the transfer market operates.
the man is a money sourcing machine - credit where its due.
Definitely, but imagine having a more capable chief executive making the transfers with all the making we are making through sponsors.
The odd thing about us is that we actually do that the finances. We're loaded as feck.
I'd have liked our transfer business to have been completed before the season started, although I'm not sure who to blame for the fact it isn't. I've repeatedly stressed that the guy has got until the end of the window, and he has, but our current predicament is less than ideal, I'll admit to that.
With that said, I think people are getting a little to caught up in transfers and forgetting about the football. The latter is what it's about right now.
With that said, I think people are getting a little to caught up in transfers and forgetting about the football. The latter is what it's about right now.
True, but the one has an effect on the other. Never more so than this season.
I think what we do in training is that bit more important. Talent exists in bucket loads already, but I take your point to a degree.
I disagree. Our squad compared to that of our rivals is awful. With the exception of the forward positions, we are miles behind City and Chelsea never mind Barca and Madrid.
My problem with Woodward has been all the bollocks he has been spouting since the new year about what we are going to do this summer (not just in terms of incomings but shifting dead wood). Herrera and Shaw are nowhere near enough. He knew he had to get this summer right and its not happening. There are people clinging onto fact there is 2 weeks of the window left - nothing will change.
I have a question... genuinely, how difficult is it to actually buy players?
Does anyone have any idea? Like, is it akin to being a brain surgeon? Or is it on par with data entry? Is Woodward actually doing the hardest job known to man? Answers on a postcard...
Does anyone have any idea? Like, is it akin to being a brain surgeon? Or is it on par with data entry? Is Woodward actually doing the hardest job known to man? Answers on a postcard...
I suppose you'd have to ask other clubs that question - they don't seem to encounter the same difficulties as us.
Woody should have just kept his mouth shut about being able to attract top players and let his actions do the talking for him. There were other options to answer the questions that he was asked, now he has set himself up as a target. I guess he was feeling cocky after the signings of Herrera and Shaw.
Over the last couple of years, we've signed the best player from Arsenal and Chelsea - we may not be top dog but that's still a fecking good pedigree. Anyway you don't win a trophy for a top dog in transfers. Get the feeling lot on here crave a marquee signing more than success.
Saying that, Woody does strike me as your typical management mug who's probably a bit out of his depth with the footballing side of things.
You don't need to be a top dog in transfers and maybe that's something the club is yet to fully realize. We tend to overrate not only our attraction power ('biggest club in the world' and 'everyone wants to join us' BS) but also our players (no one can replace a 36 year old Paul Scholes, the squad is good enough etc) which forces us to go for unrealistic targets (ex Fabregas) while letting absolute bargains slip behind our back (ex Strootman).
At the end of the day what the fans want is a solid side who can win honors. I am sure that many of us would rather see us sign 2 solid defenders and a DM then lets say another marquee no 10 signing.
It's unbelievable we haven't signed more players. We need at least three! top quality signings. Get those bloody pay checks out Woodward.
Just in case anyone thinks we're being hard on the goggle-eyed gimp. These are quotes that have hoist him by his own petard.
That interview was on July 21st. Over three weeks ago. Since he gave that interview, in the three weeks that followed, the following deals have been sealed.
Arsenal
Chambers
Ospina
Everton
Lukaku
Galloway
Besic
City
Mangala
Lampard
Zuculini
Liverpool
Manquillo
Lovren
Origi
Chelsea
Drogba
That's just incoming players. Over the same period of time a bunch of players have been sold or sent out on loan and Kompany and Silva have signed new 5 year deals at City, ditto Barkley at Everton. Fairly sure there's been more contract extensions at other clubs but can't remember them off the top of my head.
Meanwhile, at United, we've signed nobody. We've sold nobody. Nobody has come in or out on loan. Nobody has signed any new deals.
Looking at the summer as a whole, goes without saying that we haven't added as many new players to our squad as any of our rivals, despite losing the three best defenders of our recent club history, plus the only back-up left back to have played any first team football. Following on from a season where we finished lower than we have done in decades, with a squad in desperate need of an overhaul.
As well as signing new players, all of the above clubs have been trimming deadwood, raising funds by selling surplus players and arranging some interesting loan deals for promising youngsters. We've moved on three players (one of whom the manager didn't want to leave!) for pretty much zero money and not finalised a single loan deal.
All of the above is a damning indictment of our CEO, who seems incapable or unable to work at anything other than a glacial pace. That's well and good when it comes to negotiating new shirt deals but it's downright incompetent when it comes to the compressed timelines of transfer windows. I thought last summer that this job was too much for Woodward and thought people were far too quick to decide it was all Moyes's fault, once it became apparent that he was unable to get the team to perform on the pitch. The events of this summer only confirm my suspicions that our problems last season went beyond Fergie's choice of successor. Woodward does not have what it takes to deliver on his new responsibilities as CEO and has compounded the challenges United face in coping with the post-Fergie era. We can chop and change our managers as much as we want but with Woodward continuing in his current role, I don't see any dramatic improvements any time soon.
That interview was on July 21st. Over three weeks ago. Since he gave that interview, in the three weeks that followed, the following deals have been sealed.
Arsenal
Chambers
Ospina
Everton
Lukaku
Galloway
Besic
City
Mangala
Lampard
Zuculini
Liverpool
Manquillo
Lovren
Origi
Chelsea
Drogba
That's just incoming players. Over the same period of time a bunch of players have been sold or sent out on loan and Kompany and Silva have signed new 5 year deals at City, ditto Barkley at Everton. Fairly sure there's been more contract extensions at other clubs but can't remember them off the top of my head.
Meanwhile, at United, we've signed nobody. We've sold nobody. Nobody has come in or out on loan. Nobody has signed any new deals.
Looking at the summer as a whole, goes without saying that we haven't added as many new players to our squad as any of our rivals, despite losing the three best defenders of our recent club history, plus the only back-up left back to have played any first team football. Following on from a season where we finished lower than we have done in decades, with a squad in desperate need of an overhaul.
As well as signing new players, all of the above clubs have been trimming deadwood, raising funds by selling surplus players and arranging some interesting loan deals for promising youngsters. We've moved on three players (one of whom the manager didn't want to leave!) for pretty much zero money and not finalised a single loan deal.
All of the above is a damning indictment of our CEO, who seems incapable or unable to work at anything other than a glacial pace. That's well and good when it comes to negotiating new shirt deals but it's downright incompetent when it comes to the compressed timelines of transfer windows. I thought last summer that this job was too much for Woodward and thought people were far too quick to decide it was all Moyes's fault, once it became apparent that he was unable to get the team to perform on the pitch. The events of this summer only confirm my suspicions that our problems last season went beyond Fergie's choice of successor. Woodward does not have what it takes to deliver on his new responsibilities as CEO and has compounded the challenges United face in coping with the post-Fergie era. We can chop and change our managers as much as we want but with Woodward continuing in his current role, I don't see any dramatic improvements any time soon.
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I imagine it's a difficult process as it any sort of purchase of anything with a high value. I really think we make it hard for ourselves though. Not by negotiating that's fair enough but by Woodward coming out and spouting bollocks getting everyones hopes it and then nothing actually happens, that's the real issue. People always say stuff like "It's only 3 million" like it's loose change, it's a lot of money still and you can see why the club won't pay it. The problem is when the Chief Exec comes out and says he will break the transfer record if he has to we kind of look stupid.
The 3rd party ones seem really hard to deal with, few City fans in my work mention how their Chairman/Chief Exec/Director of Football said they take ages, the Fernando deal and Mangala one I think were meant to be done in January but got dragged out so much and have only been concluded now.
I suppose we have to ask ourselves what exactly is the clubs policy when purchasing players ?
When Bayern,City, Chelsea, Madrid and Barca want players it just seems to happen. With United, we are linked with everybody and then usually make underwhelming signings that are about either potential of improving the squad . .
There is an argument to be made that the team with the best squad (not first team) is the one best equipped for success. Its true to a degree, but when you want to win champions league and win the big games you have to go for a more balanced approach. .
Tbf. Woodie has a lot of traffic going out as well as a few coming in.
We are all focused on incoming traffic whereas, there are quite a few more going out which are also Woodie's responsibility.
I hope its just not the same smallish team that has to handle all this movements. He should get a few of the transfer geniuses/muppets from the forum to help out.
Exactly. He's making a balls out of every possible aspect of his job. Not just signing new players.
I've still never understood why someone - who is successful at doing commercial deals - has been asked to take control of transfers... something that is entirely different, and requires an understanding of a completely different type of business deal.
It'd be like asking the head of HR to also head up the IT department... because both involve people.
It'd be like asking the head of HR to also head up the IT department... because both involve people.
Well its safe to say with one full day of any activity available before the season starts we have seen literally no movement in terms of Ins or Outs for weeks.
I cant believe we are here again going into the last couple of weeks of the window after hearing useless after useless comments suggesting well get things done early, well sign big players, well cover all options and hit the ground running with players coming in, in time to implement them into the team, make sure they know our style BEFORE the games start.
Weve been well and truly led down the garden path and I can only blame Woodward, dont sit there and tell me LVG is happy with literally NO ONE at LCB except two youngsters, 3 central Midfielders of which one is just up to fitness after a severe illness and the other isnt fit for a top 10 team (cleverley) and Herrera being the only real fit option. Wingers who are severely under performing in Valencia and Nani leaving us to switch Young around the pitch playing LWB/RWB with a third or fourth option on the other side. A central defense made up of up-and-comers with Smalling, Jones still to become the experienced players we need and forced to "make do" since we have no one else.
This has potential to be disastrous season again. But we can not keep making excuses for CO who cant seem to get it together. He would have been fired in any other high profile job for making such bold claims and not following through. Its bordering on negligence.
The only ONLY way I see him redeeming himself is by spending HUGE in the next two weeks and if Vidal, Di Maria (or another top class winger), Banatia, Blind and some sort of cover at LB isnt on the cards then he will have failed spectacularly.
Its not just to have a top class team but to have a basic functional team that can be moderately successful.
I cant believe we are here again going into the last couple of weeks of the window after hearing useless after useless comments suggesting well get things done early, well sign big players, well cover all options and hit the ground running with players coming in, in time to implement them into the team, make sure they know our style BEFORE the games start.
Weve been well and truly led down the garden path and I can only blame Woodward, dont sit there and tell me LVG is happy with literally NO ONE at LCB except two youngsters, 3 central Midfielders of which one is just up to fitness after a severe illness and the other isnt fit for a top 10 team (cleverley) and Herrera being the only real fit option. Wingers who are severely under performing in Valencia and Nani leaving us to switch Young around the pitch playing LWB/RWB with a third or fourth option on the other side. A central defense made up of up-and-comers with Smalling, Jones still to become the experienced players we need and forced to "make do" since we have no one else.
This has potential to be disastrous season again. But we can not keep making excuses for CO who cant seem to get it together. He would have been fired in any other high profile job for making such bold claims and not following through. Its bordering on negligence.
The only ONLY way I see him redeeming himself is by spending HUGE in the next two weeks and if Vidal, Di Maria (or another top class winger), Banatia, Blind and some sort of cover at LB isnt on the cards then he will have failed spectacularly.
Its not just to have a top class team but to have a basic functional team that can be moderately successful.
I agree, as a club we're also not helped by the fact as you say we get linked with everyone. Mainly due to how bad we were last season where as the other clubs you mentioned were either successful or are cash rich and get things done quickly. If City were to have a poor season this year they'd be in a similiar position to us in the media where they are linked with almost everyone.
I think the worry with your first sentence is it seems the club don't even know so I doubt we will as fans. Woodward shot himself in the foot, it's good to hear him speak as it gave people some kind of hope but then he failed to deliver at the moment and spectacularly as well, he has made a rod for his own back.
Your last sentence is definitely right, football is a squad game. I think our problem is we've not even got that good of a first 11 at the moment, there's so many holes in the team that need addressing. Our defence is injury prone, our midfield is pretty weak and our wingers aren't brilliant. The only positions you could argue we have part of a "best 11" in is goalkeeper and strikers.
We'd probably have been better off promoting the head of HR, as it happens. What Woody seems incapable of doing is basically hiring and firing.
Excellent post and my thoughts summed up precisely and better than I could muster without getting furious.
Still two weeks to save yourself Ed.
United have the finances to compete with anyone and regularly broke national records pre Glazers.
Great post, each passing day that gets us closer to the end of the transfer frustrates me even more. Any signing brought on now will have the same old "no preseason with the team etc etc etc ..." attached to his performances for a long while. Why do we do this to ourselves ?
A statement that always sounds very different when you say "United always had the finances to compete with anyone and regularly broke national records pre-Chelsea/City/PSG takeovers."
The goalposts were moved considerably just before the Glazers takeover and then moved considerably again soon after so comparing the Glazers transfer dealings to the PLC's is impossible as they were two substantially different markets.
We have spent on Interest payments what Chelsea have spent on fees.
So it's safe to say Ed is following Moyes as the most irritating Manchester United employee on RedCafe.
He was up there with Moyes until Herrera and Shaw came in. But two good signings does not fix an entire squad, come on Woody prove us wrong. At this stage VIdal alone is not enough.
There is some right bellendry on show in this thread today.
Laughable.
Laughable.
You're right, Woodward does not deserve to be criticized for promising unprecedented spending and urging fans to watch the space while struggling to conclude a deal for a Sporting Lisbon player. He still has a couple of weeks, but the window has proven another disappointment thus far. I'm calm and patient, but beginning to grow concerned.
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