True, but it's hard not to think that Vidal and Hummels are about the most suitable players.
Woodward (old thread)
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True, but it's hard not to think that Vidal and Hummels are about the most suitable players.
Why not leave him as a CEO that only negotiates sponsorship deals then and employ somebody more able to negotiate for players?
He's a glazer man. So he's no allegiance to the fans that seem he'll bent on defending him.
The problem is that the glazers have constantly said that there are huge funds available, but more often then not they haven't put any reasonable investment in the squad.
Who cares if Woodward can negotiate 600mil deals if they are only prepared to invest a tiny fraction in the squad?!
People are misguided on many things about Woodward, but thinking he gives a f+*k about pleasing fans or that he gives a f**k about the actual team itself would be just sad.....
I never said he cares for pleasing the fans.
He is interested in a successful football club because this will ultimately maximise the club's valuation and revenue. The fans are interested in a successful football club too.
He has thus far spent £60m, I don't want him to spend £20m on a Young or Valencia or Lallana, I want him to spend £30m plus on a top player however the best players will have more attractive destinations.
di Maria might prefer to stay at Real where Vidal might join Bayern or Real and Hummels might want Barcelona.
I acknowledge the lack of champions league football and our uncertain future since Ferguson's departure might see players prefer Madrid, Munich or Barcelona.
During the last three seasons, if I recall correctly, the investment has been fine. Don't forget, Real Madrid might have spent £145m last season but they sold £100m worth of players.
We have so far spent £60m and that is reasonable so I'm not complaining at the moment, I'm content with how this transfer window has gone so far.
You also say he doesn't care about the team, so you think he is content with a Manchester United that gets relegated? That will do wonders for the bottom line.
EDIT - Drummer will see to it this thread becomes about debating the Glazers.
Well yes suitable players, I should have said 'world class player'.
Ultimately we can strengthen the team without world class players however they would be preferable since they will strengthen the team further. Success on the pitch translates well into money so Woodward wants a strong team I'm sure therefore he likely is in touch with clubs and agents.
Well the players we bought aren't exactly world beaters are they, Most people never even heard of Herrera before the disaster of last summer, plus an 18 year old LB isn't really exiting. We finished 7th for crying out loud, were going to need to spend at least another £80million if we want to compete.
Drummer is also 100% right, what's the point in £600million sponsorship deals if we don't even re invest the money?
He needs to sign Di Maria now to make up for the Sanchez disappointment.
The 7th place finish has much more to do with the manager, we need a cb because of Ferdinand and Vidic leaving but otherwise we have a squad good enough for top four next season.
Luke Shaw is very exciting, he could become the best left back in the world. I'm surprised you don't rate him, do you prefer Evra?
Herrera seems to actually be well suited to Louis van Gaal's system, he is an upgrade on our current midfield but also don't forget the difficulty we have had in that position, it was in desperate need of strengthening and Herrera was available, this makes sense to buy him. People complain when we don't sign CM now people complain because Herrera isn't Vidal.
What you and Drummer don't take into account is that a Manchester United performing poor off the pitch will not obliterate sponsorship records. To have not a weak squad but a strong squad will be the intention of any good CEO.
In Edward's defense.
Ryan Giggs: “We went through the players who are here and some of the players he liked that will maybe come in. Two have already come in (Luke Shaw and Ander Herrera). It’s always hard during the World Cup because a lot of the players you’re looking at could still be part of the World Cup, or they’ve just gone out and are now going on holiday for a rest. I’m not sure how many players will come in – we’ll have to wait and see.
In next weeks we'll finally see official actions from chairman. I think he prepared more than one bid as Louie's list was delivered to him before World Cup.
Ryan Giggs: “We went through the players who are here and some of the players he liked that will maybe come in. Two have already come in (Luke Shaw and Ander Herrera). It’s always hard during the World Cup because a lot of the players you’re looking at could still be part of the World Cup, or they’ve just gone out and are now going on holiday for a rest. I’m not sure how many players will come in – we’ll have to wait and see.
In next weeks we'll finally see official actions from chairman. I think he prepared more than one bid as Louie's list was delivered to him before World Cup.
If the adidas deal rumours are true, this guy is an absolute genius.
That's the bit I don't get. Players don't negotiate moves, agents and clubs do. The player could be lying on a beach somewhere with his mobile waiting for his agent to call. That's about the sum total of involvement a player has in negotiating moves these days.
That implies a player's agent determines his destination.
E.g. Vidal's agent wants a move to Munich so Vidal moves to munich.
In reality the player decides his destination and this requires conversations with his family, perhaps even research on the location to determine how it would impact his family and finally he might want to find out the manager's plans so he can determine the role he will play.
The agent negotiates the contract but the player will decide his new club.
"Vidal, we have offers from Real Madrid, Manchester United and Bayern Munich, would you like to move to one of these clubs or stay at Juventus?"
Vidal would not just give an answer, he would have so many questions. These things would be better done face to face and then he probably would want time to think.
Very simplistic and misguided view of the glazers tenure...
People don't for one second even wonder if DM was made manager because he was considered the cheapest option with a pedigree in getting a lot out of cheap players.
The glazers don't care if the club success on the pitch once they are financially successful off it. What is clear is that winning trophies is most certainly not a priority. You don't sell your prizes asset i ronaldo and not reinvest in top quality unless you are prepared to take a risk with the quality of his replacement.
Top 4 and the odd fa cup win would be more then enough for the glazers to ride off into te sunset rich as f**k. Just look at how one top 2 finish has done for Liverpool and how long they had done nothing....
Uniteds ambitions investing in the squad under the glazers have never matched Chelsea, city, Madrid, barca or bayern. But the fianxnjal capacity to match these teams would of been there had the owners not handicapped the club from the off.
Completely agree. The Glazers know what they have in United. Arsenal and even Liverpool have shown that lack of trophies doesn't cost the club as much money as people think, if your name is already established. And we're bigger than both. And much bigger than both in terms of finances and business.
Chevrolet are signed up, so now winning any trophies next year wont benefit them in that regard, so why spend bigger than necessary? Soon a huge kit deal will be signed, and it'll be job done for the next five plus years. Big money secured.
City have the recent success and they still can't trump Liverpool in sponsorship deals. So it isn't the be-all and end-all.
The main priority is not to be the best team in Europe or to win in style, it's to be successful off it. Winning trophies is a bonus.
I'm pleasantly surprised that they've spent nearly £60 million this summer to be honest. And I'll give them credit for that, but I'll wait and see what else happens before I give them too much credit.
No, they don't because he wasn't a cheapish opinion. If we wanted a cheap option, we would have gone for Pellegrini who while infinitely better than your dear Moyes, also earn for City only 30% of the annual wage of Moyes contract for us.
Are you trying to win the agenda poster of the year or what?
Strange that we just signed the most expensive left back of all time. Especially considering that he is an 18 years old and curretly there are better players than him who cost cheaper.
none of us love the Glazers, but it's a simple equation, success brings more money and status.
Last year will have given them a severe shock, and although we can comfortably offset any losses as a one off, if this starts becoming constant, the losses will grow alarmingly, and their stock wil reduce in value, and it'll be pretty bad for them.
That's no doubt why they'll smash it this summer transfer fee wise, to an unprecedented level.
We're already close to £60m, I'm trying to think what our record summer spend is. Probably isn't too much higher if at all.
Last year will have given them a severe shock, and although we can comfortably offset any losses as a one off, if this starts becoming constant, the losses will grow alarmingly, and their stock wil reduce in value, and it'll be pretty bad for them.
That's no doubt why they'll smash it this summer transfer fee wise, to an unprecedented level.
We're already close to £60m, I'm trying to think what our record summer spend is. Probably isn't too much higher if at all.
Nah I rate Shaw and think he will do brilliantly here, but C'mon now..This is a standard Man Utd signing snapping up English prospects ie Jones, Smalling, Zaha and Rooney. Nothing to be really exited about.
I've hardly seen Herrera so I can't really comment about him, A lot on here rate him highly though.
Another point, we shouldn't be aiming to create a squad for top 4 anyway, we should and will be going for the league.
The cost of individual players doesn't matter to me. We could spend that £30 million on 10 players; it's still £30 million.
If the summer ends with just these two in, when we potentially had the chance to sign a top midfielder weeks after unveiling a new Chevrolet sponsored shirt, what will it matter how much Shaw or Herrera cost as individuals?
Similar to how Ozil costing £40 million doesn't change the fact that £40 million was all Arsenal really spent.
Fair play to them. Many didn't even expect this amount to be spent, so it's not been too bad. I'm not disappointed at all, thus far.
But my view is that priorities on not on having the best football team, but making as much money as possible using United's name.
In an ideal world the owner(s) want not only to make money off the pitch, but to be better at the actual football than other teams too. My opinion is that the owners here want to find that sweet spot, where the money rolls in despite not spending huge amounts or having huge success.
Even if all we do is what Arsenal did for years (spend little and achieve little, but get top four) the fact that we're a bigger club and already have these huge deals means that the club will be in good money.
I am sure that these two things are very related. Also, 60m net spent is a decent sum of money to spend in a summer. Although I am sure that we'll sign another couple of players.
However my point was, if they want to spend as little as possible then they surely wouldn't break the all time record for a left back, especially considering that he is an 18 years old player. More likely they would have gone for someone like Luis who would cost much cheaper and is currently better. It is clear that they are going for long term. Not because they are United fans, but because when United does better, they win more money (and the club's value increases).
I hope so.
It's just how I've felt for a while now, but this summer is easing my fears. I've liked what I've seen, and I hope that if the right midfielder becomes available they appreciate the importance to the team of securing him, even if it costs more than they want to spend.
I'm possibly too cynical when it comes to the Glazers.
Cynical is fine. Ignoring reality, as some do, just becomes annoying. Even if Vidal, Di Maria and Hummels all come you can guarantee by October the usual suspects will be putting their feelers out. Any suggestions we won't sign a linked player in January and we'll all start from scratch with the insinuations of thrift and lack of money. Investment in the team both in terms of transfer spend and wages is at record levels but some people can't accept that because it doesn't suit their continual agenda that thankfully everyone stopped listening to about three years ago.
I hope so.
It's just how I've felt for a while now, but this summer is easing my fears. I've liked what I've seen, and I hope that if the right midfielder becomes available they appreciate the importance to the team of securing him, even if it costs more than they want to spend.
I'm possibly too cynical when it comes to the Glazers.
You're cynical
Being more serious, I don't fault you considering the all doom and gloom impossible scenarios that have been mentioned millions of times by certain people.In the end, what Plugsy said:
For example, even if we spend the 10 year Chevrolet deal on a single summer, @Drummer will still complain. And even if we win the treble five times in a row, he will still go in some hypothetical scenario when we will go bankrupt (because of 20m for year debt) and will remember the great times when we signed any player we wanted, great times that never really existed.
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You're cynical
In the end, what Plugsy said:
For example, even if we spend the 10 year Chevrolet deal on a single summer, Drummer will still complain. And even if we win the treble five times in a row, he will still go in some hypothetical scenario when we will go bankrupt (because of 20m for year debt) and will remember the great times when we signed any player we wanted, great times that never really existed.
It'll be ignored and he'll instead ask something like
"Why was net spend so low in 2005-2007?" as if that's the defining period for everything.
You always make things about the Glazers, on a subconscious level I think you might actually like them, they spend too much time in your thoughts. I was not referring to the Glazers entire tenure but instead this transfer window.
We've done that debate to death. Your love for them must be the reason you persist.
To criticise David Moyes is to criticise both Ferguson and Charlton, they seemed to have influence in that decision.
It's difficult to discuss this with you when you cannot see the relation between success on the pitch and off it. Share price is influenced by many things and a successful, winning football club is one of them, that translates into more negotiating leverage.
Why did I use the term leverage? Next post, leverage takeover discussion I bet.
We've done it to death but SAF said they always backed him, people denied it, well they seem to be showing they will back their manager in the market as they backed Moyes and now Louis van Gaal.
Ferguson took many risks and he was proud of it.
The Glazers want money yet you say they only want top four. To build a dominant football team will do wonders for the brand, they will back the manager in the market by providing a transfer budget that is competitive (net). If they are as greedy as you imply they will maximise the stock price, their own wealth and to do that requires a winning club.
United's ambitions surpassed Chelsea and City as evident by the success. Ferguson built a great team, great players do not necessarily make a great team. If you would sooner City or Chelsea's level of success then fine however I'm happy with what has been achieved and long may it continue.
I told you that you will make this about the Glazers. Why can you not just debate Studward's performance? Why must you always turn discussions into a glazer debate, go to that thread. If you want to reply to me then do so in a Glazer thread, do not ruin this for others.
I would prefer you not reply because I want to talk about Studward.
I like Jones, I can't wait to see how Zaha does and I have enjoyed Rooney's career. I think Smalling has potential too!!
I am excited but not Vidal excited however I think Shaw is a quality signing especially since I thought Chelsea would have got him.
Herrera I'm excited for since he is actually good, not great, but good. I am just happy we finally signed a good central midfielder, Vidal would be great but I am excited to see Herrera move the ball quickly on toward the lethal attackers.
We should be looking to create a squad that dominates but next season we must ensure we get top four, Louis van Gaal said he wants to sort United's problems out in one season but if he can't do it in one, he'll do it in two. Ferguson leaving was always going to be difficult to deal with, the most important thing this season is that we adjust to Louis van Gaal's ways and pick up his ideas. To get top four this season will probably require a title challenge anyway.
Drummer seems to think we have sociopaths running the club, he might be right.
We have had a below par season, a shite season to be more specific but let's be careful what we wish for lest the club we love will morph into something we barely know let alone love. The only reason we now need to spend these loads of money is the result of misdirected investments made in windows gone by, remember that Vidal moved to Juve for a pittance whilst we spent the equivalent on Bebe, triple on Young etc. If we rebuild adequately this summer we need to go through some introspection, especially on the football side to ascertain exactly what had gone wrong to leave us in the hole that we found ourselves in and we need to narrow that gap between our youth set up and our first team. We have now spent around £60m on Jones, Smalling and Shaw, the sort of players that Bayern and Barca just plucked from their youth set up. The solution does not lie in throwing money at our problems but it lies in youth and when you produce four to five members of your team from your academy then you will find that spending eighty million on a world beater won't be so painful.
The other thing is we need to get back to the time where we could sign useful or great first team players on the cheap, we need to ensure that we are the team that uncovers the next Evra, Vidic and Hernandez . So, in short, whilst I appreciate the need to spend big now I want us to remember the pillars on which our empire rests, youth and diamonds in the sand !
Regarding your point about the Glazers I think you do them a disservice, underestimate them as businessmen . These guys are breaking new ground in the commercial scales of the game and you think they will just be content with those two deals ? I don't think there are many on this forumn who can guage the scale of these guys' ambitions concerning United but what is clear is that whatever they got planned involves some measure of football success otherwise Moyes would have survived beyond this summer .
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I think it's fair to say the Glazers want football success only in as much as it serves to drive the commercial revenue streams. They have absolutely no interest in football per se, their interest is solely in making money. That's not a criticism of them, that's just how it is.
True, but their plan relies on us being the number one name for companies to want association with. Champs league spot and nothing else will not do.
We lost the league by goal difference, so they bought the previous season's best player, with no likely re-sale value.
I don't think we should question their ambition for the team, and we already know their reasons.
Too many expensive prospects, that don't look like value after a few years, have cost us in regards of first team quality.
I really hope that Shaw doesn't end up as another "expensive teen turned journeyman"
Expensive quality,value first-teamers, and cheap prospects has to be the way to go, as Itso 7 covers above.
Breaking our record transfer fee would further increase his status on here. He would become a legend.
Been there. Done that.Breaking our record transfer fee would further increase his status on here. He would become a legend.
Breaking our record transfer fee would further increase his status on here. He would become a legend.
I think he was in a no lose situation one he survived the shambles that was last Summer. I also think we've overpaid for our last 4 major signings. Shaw and Herrera came from 2 fairly small clubs, he still has to prove himself negotiating a tough transfer from the likes of Real Madrid.
Did Gill do that?
There's absolutely no basis for this statement - it may or may not be true but, unless you know them personally, it is purely conjecture. In fact, if you extrapolate from the Bucs, the opposite seems more likely to be the case. There they turned a franchise that was a national joke into a steady winner. If money was all they cared about they could just have let that ride (or even sold the franchise for an $800m profit). Instead they pushed really hard and won a Superbowl, but at a very high cost - the franchise still hasn't recovered. All the evidence points to their wanting their sports teams to succeed, but they (hopefully) did learn the hard lesson from the Bucs saga that "win at all costs" is not a very good strategy for the long term health of a team.
Emotion clouds judgement here. They will not listen to the voice of reason.
Say Woodward fails to sign van Gaal's targets, do we foresee a falling out?
Target number 1, 2 and 3?
We'll have backup targets no doubt, but I'd imagine van Gaal would be the type to become quite irked his main targets weren't delivered. I'd also imagine he's the type to be pretty vocal expressing his disdain.
If he asks for Vidal but Vidal doesn't want to come here despite Woodward trying to bribe him I doubt he has any reason to be annoyed. And Louis van Gaal strikes me as a logical and reasonable man.
lol record 3rd quarter revenues of 40m pounds, record revenues, no need to pass off any losses
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