Woodward (old thread)

Should Studward remain as CE of Manchester United?

  • No - he should be sacked also.

    Votes: 40 22.6%

  • Yes - he should stay.

    Votes: 137 77.4%
  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
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We were going to make signings before the WC started, in case the players' valuations rocketed if they had a good WC................

We were going to have all the new signings on tour so Van Gaal could have his new team moulded before the start of the season.............

Let's forget this fallacy about not being able to sign players because of the WC. Players don't negotiate moves, agents do. The last time I looked there were no agents playing in the WC. Players "not thinking about moves while they're playing in the WC" is just something they say for public consumption.

Even sodding Arsenal have managed to sign a top class player involved in the WC with the minimum of fuss and delay.
 
Rednotdead said:
But weren't we told that the lack of CL football wouldn't be a hindrance to signing players?
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Why do you think we have to sign every player whose registration changes hands this summer in order for that to be correct?
 
TBH apart from the jokes, we really need to work harder than other clubs competing for the title or even top 4 because of that dark period we had last season. We need to immediately strengthen our squad in the couple of areas which need obvious boost and that too with top class signings.

So I fecking hope Edward is busy negotiating for Vidal and Di Maria.:drool:
 
Rednotdead said:
What on earth are you talking about? Did I say I thought that?
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Yes that was clearly implied by what you've said. Someone said he wanted CL football and you interpreted that to mean that claims that we wouldn't struggle to sign people to indicate this may not be the case. If you weren't casting aspersions on the claim that no-CL would make a difference to our transfer dealings because a player signed for a club because he wanted CL football, then what were you doing?

Don't say something with a clear inference and then when someone pulls you up on it deny everything. You clearly meant to cast doubt on whether lack of CL would not affect us in the market by using Sanchez's claims to want CL football. Don't try and pretend you just innocently constructed a sentence using random words.
 
Plugsy said:
Yes that was clearly implied by what you've said. Someone said he wanted CL football and you interpreted that to mean that claims that we wouldn't struggle to sign people to indicate this may not be the case. If you weren't casting aspersions on the claim that no-CL would make a difference to our transfer dealings because a player signed for a club because he wanted CL football, then what were you doing?
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No, it wasn't clearly implied by what I said. You erroneously inferred it.

And I stand by what I said. Sanchez was quoted as saying he wanted CL football, it therefore follows that if we were in for him (I don't know whether we were or not but that's irrelevant) it would have been an impediment to our signing him. That therefore shows that the statement that the lack of CL football wouldn't be an impediment to signing players was incorrect.
 
Rednotdead said:
No, it wasn't clearly implied by what I said. You erroneously inferred it.

And I stand by what I said. Sanchez was quoted as saying he wanted CL football, it therefore follows that if we were in for him (I don't know whether we were or not but that's irrelevant) it would have been an impediment to our signing him. That therefore shows that the statement that the lack of CL football wouldn't be an impediment to signing players was incorrect.
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No it doesn't. We were in the CL for the last 20 years and other players signed for other clubs in that period, I'm quite sure. A player might sign for Ajax because he wants to play in Holland, it doesn't mean that not being Dutch is therefore a proven impediment to our transfer dealings.

If we were competing for a player and no CL was a deciding factor in us losing out then it might. Until then, it isn't proven.
 
Rednotdead said:
We were going to make signings before the WC started, in case the players' valuations rocketed if they had a good WC................

We were going to have all the new signings on tour so Van Gaal could have his new team moulded before the start of the season.............

Let's forget this fallacy about not being able to sign players because of the WC. Players don't negotiate moves, agents do. The last time I looked there were no agents playing in the WC. Players "not thinking about moves while they're playing in the WC" is just something they say for public consumption.

Even sodding Arsenal have managed to sign a top class player involved in the WC with the minimum of fuss and delay.
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Um... So did we? Several weeks before Arsenal signed Sanchez.

I'm sure you've got a point in there somewhere but you may need to spell it out a bit clearer?
 
Plugsy said:
No it doesn't. We were in the CL for the last 20 years and other players signed for other clubs in that period, I'm quite sure. A player might sign for Ajax because he wants to play in Holland, it doesn't mean that not being Dutch is therefore a proven impediment to our transfer dealings.

If we were competing for a player and no CL was a deciding factor in us losing out then it might. Until then, it isn't proven.
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It's proven as far as I'm concerned, but you clearly disagree. We'll just leave it at that then.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Seriously? You need me to spell it out?

We signed a top class player involved in the world cup. Unless I'm completely missing the point, of course. That was the basis for your rant I quoted? You're butt hurt about Arsenal doing the same, for some reason.
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If I may, I'm guessing he thinks Shaw and Hererra are 'nice' players, but not necessarily game changers of Sanchez's ilk.

I tend to agree - we're still missing a monster midfielder and a top drawer wide man. I hope that we're working on such deals, and it's a case of top bracket players taking a little longer.

United's transfer track record doesn't exactly inspire confidence though.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Seriously? You need me to spell it out?

We signed a top class player involved in the world cup. Unless I'm completely missing the point, of course. That was the basis for your rant I quoted? You're butt hurt about Arsenal doing the same, for some reason.
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Rant??

I thought I'd made my points clear in my original post.

We'd said we wanted to sign as many players as possible before the WC. Failed.

We'd said we wanted to have all the new signings in place for the start of the tour so Van Gaal could have as long a possible to work with them and mould his preferred first choice eleven. Failed so far (with a week to go).

We clearly had no deals in place awaiting the opening of the transfer window. My point about Sanchez was that Arsenal have managed to negotiate and seal the deal in a relatively short space of time. We don't seem to be able to achieve that, for whatever reasons. If you're going to quote Shaw at me, there was no obvious impediment that we've been made aware of to his being signed before the WC.

I really can't make it any clearer than that.
 
Rednotdead said:
Rant??

I thought I'd made my points clear in my original post.

We'd said we wanted to sign as many players as possible before the WC. Failed.

We'd said we wanted to have all the new signings in place for the start of the tour so Van Gaal could have as long a possible to work with them and mould his preferred first choice eleven. Failed so far (with a week to go).

We clearly had no deals in place awaiting the opening of the transfer window. My point about Sanchez was that Arsenal have managed to negotiate and seal the deal in a relatively short space of time. We don't seem to be able to achieve that, for whatever reasons. If you're going to quote Shaw at me, there was no obvious impediment that we've been made aware of to his being signed before the WC.

I really can't make it any clearer than that.
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Different circumstances though - Sanchez was surplus to requirements at Barca and the club wanted to complete the deal to fund part of the Suarez transfer. I am not aware that there is a comparable dynamic at play with Juve/Vidal, Dortmund/Hummels or even Real/di Maria (plus the latter two have other priorities right now). Anyway, let's give it a bit more time and see where we are in a week or two.
 
Rednotdead said:
Rant??

I thought I'd made my points clear in my original post.

We'd said we wanted to sign as many players as possible before the WC. Failed.

We'd said we wanted to have all the new signings in place for the start of the tour so Van Gaal could have as long a possible to work with them and mould his preferred first choice eleven. Failed so far (with a week to go).

We clearly had no deals in place awaiting the opening of the transfer window. My point about Sanchez was that Arsenal have managed to negotiate and seal the deal in a relatively short space of time. We don't seem to be able to achieve that, for whatever reasons. If you're going to quote Shaw at me, there was no obvious impediment that we've been made aware of to his being signed before the WC.

I really can't make it any clearer than that.
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Every plan went out the window the moment LVG was appointed and Moyes was sacked. Plans to sign Carvalho, Cavani and Kroos were scrapped because either LVG didn't want to sign or Madrid came in for Kroos depending on what you believe.

The only thing you can blame Woodward is briefing the press that we had plans in place to sign players when clearly Moyes was going to be sacked and the new manager coming in was always going to have different targets.

What's the difference between signing Shaw before the WC and a day after the England team arrived back home?
 
Melvyn said:
Every plan went out the window the moment LVG was appointed and Moyes was sacked. Plans to sign Carvalho, Cavani and Kroos were scrapped because either LVG didn't want to sign or Madrid came in for Kroos depending on what you believe.

The only thing you can blame Woodward is briefing the press that we had plans in place to sign players when clearly Moyes was going to be sacked and the new manager coming in was always going to have different targets.

What's the difference between signing Shaw before the WC and a day after the England team arrived back home?
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Yes, they did - which should have imposed an urgency to get on with things as regards the new targets. There's certainly no evidence of a sense of urgency, and given last Summer's nonsense it doesn't fill me with confidence.

My point about Shaw was that he was being quoted as an example to counter my point about Arsenal having managed to negotiate and secure the signature of a top class player involved in the WC in a relatively short timescale, something we don't seem able to achieve.
 
Ed and LVG are merely biding their time.

2 minutes before the transfer deadline we will announce we have signed every player in the history of football, and go on to win every game by default.
 
Rednotdead said:
Rant??

I thought I'd made my points clear in my original post.

We'd said we wanted to sign as many players as possible before the WC. Failed.

We'd said we wanted to have all the new signings in place for the start of the tour so Van Gaal could have as long a possible to work with them and mould his preferred first choice eleven. Failed so far (with a week to go).

We clearly had no deals in place awaiting the opening of the transfer window. My point about Sanchez was that Arsenal have managed to negotiate and seal the deal in a relatively short space of time. We don't seem to be able to achieve that, for whatever reasons. If you're going to quote Shaw at me, there was no obvious impediment that we've been made aware of to his being signed before the WC.

I really can't make it any clearer than that.
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Man, there's an awful lot of guff in that post. You seem to be implying that Arsenal signing Sanchez when they did immediately implies incompetence on our part for not matching or beating that precise timeline. Bizarre stuff.

By the way i'm "quoting Shaw at you" as evidence that we - like Arsenal - have proven ourselves capable of signing a top player within days of his exit from the World Cup. You didn't seem to grasp this in your initial post I quoted.
 
Rednotdead said:
Yes, they did - which should have imposed an urgency to get on with things as regards the new targets. There's certainly no evidence of a sense of urgency, and given last Summer's nonsense it doesn't fill me with confidence.

My point about Shaw was that he was being quoted as an example to counter my point about Arsenal having managed to negotiate and secure the signature of a top class player involved in the WC in a relatively short timescale, something we don't seem able to achieve.
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There is absolutely no way that you know what's going on in terms of transfer dealings at the club so stop making assumptions. You also don't know when Arsenal started negotiations with Sanchez. I'm assuming that you're assuming negotiations only began during the WC.
 
Jesus two weeks without a signing and our fans have gone insane again.
 
Melvyn said:
There is absolutely no way that you know what's going on in terms of transfer dealings at the club so stop making assumptions. You also don't know when Arsenal started negotiations with Sanchez. I'm assuming that you're assuming negotiations only began during the WC.
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I'm not making assumptions, anything but. I'm going on the evidence of signings made.
 
The two players we are being most heavily linked with at the moment are Vidal and di Maria. Di Maria is at the World Cup and his future will only be sorted once the World Cup is finished. And signing a player like Vidal, if our interest in him is indeed genuine, is always going to be difficult, World Cup or not. People need to be patient.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Man, there's an awful lot of guff in that post. You seem to be implying that Arsenal signing Sanchez when they did immediately implies incompetence on our part for not matching or beating that precise timeline. Bizarre stuff.

By the way i'm "quoting Shaw at you" as evidence that we - like Arsenal - have proven ourselves capable of signing a top player within days of his exit from the World Cup. You didn't seem to grasp this in your initial post I quoted.
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I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm praising them for being able to achieve something we, so far, haven't been able to achieve. Just a general point. I'm ignoring Shaw in this because it would seem negotiations were at an advanced stage before the WC. There was absolutely no evidence of an Arsenal interest (that I know of) in Sanchez before the WC.
 
Rednotdead said:
I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm praising them for being able to achieve something we, so far, haven't been able to achieve. Just a general point. I'm ignoring Shaw in this because it would seem negotiations were at an advanced stage before the WC. There was absolutely no evidence of an Arsenal interest (that I know of) in Sanchez before the WC.
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It has been a done deal for quite some time according to the Arsenal ITKs.
 
Bestie07 said:
The two players we are being most heavily linked with at the moment are Vidal and di Maria. Di Maria is at the World Cup and his future will only be sorted once the World Cup is finished. And signing a player like Vidal, if our interest in him is indeed genuine, is always going to be difficult, World Cup or not. People need to be patient.
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Let's just hope we're still not needing to be patient with a week to go until the window closes.

As I've already said, this season there is an abnormal urgency to get the right players signed asap so that Van Gaal can get working with them. If we're to be challenging at all we need a fast start. The last thing we want is to be signing players after the league has started - and that's 5 weeks tomorrow. Time is marching on.
 
Rednotdead said:
I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm praising them for being able to achieve something we, so far, haven't been able to achieve. Just a general point. I'm ignoring Shaw in this because it would seem negotiations were at an advanced stage before the WC. There was absolutely no evidence of an Arsenal interest (that I know of) in Sanchez before the WC.
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So your main beef is the difference in the period of time between starting and completing negotiatons for Sanchez vs Shaw?

Even though you admit to having no idea about when Arsenal began negotiating for Sanchez?

It does come across as a touch neurotic, if I'm honest.
 
We didn't want Sanchez. Not sure why people are moaning in the Woodward thread about it. Go to LVG thread.
 
Rednotdead said:
Let's just hope we're still not needing to be patient with a week to go until the window closes.

As I've already said, this season there is an abnormal urgency to get the right players signed asap so that Van Gaal can get working with them. If we're to be challenging at all we need a fast start. The last thing we want is to be signing players after the league has started - and that's 5 weeks tomorrow. Time is marching on.
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Exactly the same as every other transfer window ever, then.

It's always in ours and every other club's best interest to sign players as quickly as possible.

Of course this doesn't always happen because it's also in every club's best interest to negotiate as good a price as possible. Which takes time. I mean, come on, there's nothing new or unusual here, surely?
 
Rednotdead said:
I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm praising them for being able to achieve something we, so far, haven't been able to achieve. Just a general point. I'm ignoring Shaw in this because it would seem negotiations were at an advanced stage before the WC. There was absolutely no evidence of an Arsenal interest (that I know of) in Sanchez before the WC.
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Just because you don't know of any Arsenal interest before the WC doesn't mean there wasn't. I find it laughable that people think transfers are started and concluded within the space of two weeks.

Also, doesn't the fact that negotiations being at an advanced stage before the WC for Shaw imply urgency on the part of United?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exactly the same as every other transfer window ever, then.

It's always in ours and every other club's best interest to sign players as quickly as possible.

Of course this doesn't always happen because it's also in every club's best interest to negotiate as good a price as possible. Which takes time. I mean, come on, there's nothing new or unusual here, surely?
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So you're saying this season is no different to any other season? Despite the number of new signings needed?
 
Ducklegs said:
Ed and LVG are merely biding their time.

2 minutes before the transfer deadline we will announce we have signed every player in the history of football, and go on to win every game by default.
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Except Stevie Me, obviously. There are standards.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's exactly the same in every way that matters. We want to sign players as quickly as possible, the clubs selling players will negotiate as long as it takes to get the best price possible.
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You're wasting your time, Pogue. There's no reasoning with muppets when they're muppeting.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's exactly the same in every way that matters. We want to sign players as quickly as possible, the clubs selling players will negotiate as long as it takes to get the best price possible.
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Oh, right. New manager who needs to get to know the existing players as well as integrate the new ones.

Multiple new signings needed.

No urgency at all then. Nothing different from any other season.

All you're doing is making excuses as to why players might not be signed.
 
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