Yeah, because Jose always does well when pressure builds up..
With Jose still in charge - I am NOT looking forward to next season
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
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Yeah, because Jose always does well when pressure builds up..
Not really, I gave 1 example. I think the one stretching logic or really just having an absence of any logic whatsoever would be yourself. I mean just think about it for a minute. I mean City and Pool are heralded as the most attacking teams in the league yet both have won quite a few games by 1-0 or drawn games whilst still maintaining attacks and attacking at will.
How anyone can deny they are an attacking team is pretty shocking really, especially when Just recently in the first half they were all over us with attack after attack and were opening us up regularly. Do you even watch Spurs?
It doesn't matter if City or Pool won a few games 1-0 (that's your argument not mine) their goal tally across the season clearly demonstrates how attacking they are, Spurs record does not and its not because they're attackers are shite.
You seem to have issues between looking at a few games and output across an entire season so I'm done with this discussion.
My point is that goal tally is not the only thing that determines if you’re an attacking side or not which is what you’re suggesting. It’s the way you play which determines it and anyone who has watched them over the last few years should be able to inform you they are an attacking side. Maybe not as much as the likes of City or Liverpool but they are. So your assertation that the CAF wouldn’t like him because he isn’t an attacking manager I’m sorry but it’s wrong. Also the people with a problem with the way Jose plays isn’t just a lack of goals, it’s how he actually plays.
We've finished 2nd.
We've bombed out of the C/L and the league cup with shambolic unforgiveable performances and didn't show up for the FA cup final.
League finish is a plus but given the lack of trophy and some god awful performances I would class this season as average.
Moving forward - its hard to see how we will improve with Jose any further for me.
Throughout this season he has publicly hit out at several players, we still have a very unbalanced squad, our style of play is too slow and pragmatic and a lot of the players just have no confidence whatsoever.
Rumours of Mourinho blasting Lukaku and Fellaini regarding fitness for the cup final, he's frozen out Bailly (our best CB by far), he's completely dropped Martial for Sanchez (who looks like a stoke player rather than an elite player), he's shattered the confidence of Rashford/Shaw/Pogba.
Giving Jose another 200/250 million is such a big risk giving he cant manage the current squad he has. We need balance throughout the squad, the way we set up yesterday with Herrera basically playing at RB was painful to watch.
If we bang a load of money at it again, we're setting up for more of the same because regardless of who we sign the majority of unrest in the squad is down to Jose and our style of play is down to Jose as well. He hasn't coached these players, he's just set them up to be a defensive unit and bullied players who don't comply.
With Rashford - why doesn't Jose set the team up to play to his strengths? Rashford is quick and needs to play on the shoulder and be fed balls through. What happens - we are so slow and lethargic in the final third the players don't even look for this option, as a result Rashford comes deep and doesn't influence the game. A bit of coaching would solve this. I could pick many more players/examples also......
We've bombed out of the C/L and the league cup with shambolic unforgiveable performances and didn't show up for the FA cup final.
League finish is a plus but given the lack of trophy and some god awful performances I would class this season as average.
Moving forward - its hard to see how we will improve with Jose any further for me.
Throughout this season he has publicly hit out at several players, we still have a very unbalanced squad, our style of play is too slow and pragmatic and a lot of the players just have no confidence whatsoever.
Rumours of Mourinho blasting Lukaku and Fellaini regarding fitness for the cup final, he's frozen out Bailly (our best CB by far), he's completely dropped Martial for Sanchez (who looks like a stoke player rather than an elite player), he's shattered the confidence of Rashford/Shaw/Pogba.
Giving Jose another 200/250 million is such a big risk giving he cant manage the current squad he has. We need balance throughout the squad, the way we set up yesterday with Herrera basically playing at RB was painful to watch.
If we bang a load of money at it again, we're setting up for more of the same because regardless of who we sign the majority of unrest in the squad is down to Jose and our style of play is down to Jose as well. He hasn't coached these players, he's just set them up to be a defensive unit and bullied players who don't comply.
With Rashford - why doesn't Jose set the team up to play to his strengths? Rashford is quick and needs to play on the shoulder and be fed balls through. What happens - we are so slow and lethargic in the final third the players don't even look for this option, as a result Rashford comes deep and doesn't influence the game. A bit of coaching would solve this. I could pick many more players/examples also......
1)When jose lose with academy/english core players- why he played them?
2)When he buys new players- what will happen with our academy players?
3) when he wins - meh, it was ugly win. It is not united way. We were lucky. I am not entertainted.
4) when he puts rashford, lingard, shaw, mctominay on the bench- he is killing youth
5) when he puts rashford, lingard, shaw and mctominay in the squad- boo, they are so average. They can feck off.
6) when we trash somebody- that team sucks.
7) when we win 2/3 trophies in season- feck trophies, we played ugly football
8) when we lose cup- feck jose, he didn't win nothing
9) comments on liverpool and tottenham with zero trophies and with only one or two young players- they play sooo great. We want poch. We want klopp.
10) We want sanchez. Best player in league. Day when we signed him- what will happen after 4 years? Jose doesn't have long run vision
Anti-jose brigade want something that in football doesn't exist. And would slate every manager who comes here. Zidane, poch, simeone, tuchel....every of them would be fecked here. Playing youth, playing attacking football and winning things is not possible anymore at the same time.
2)When he buys new players- what will happen with our academy players?
3) when he wins - meh, it was ugly win. It is not united way. We were lucky. I am not entertainted.
4) when he puts rashford, lingard, shaw, mctominay on the bench- he is killing youth
5) when he puts rashford, lingard, shaw and mctominay in the squad- boo, they are so average. They can feck off.
6) when we trash somebody- that team sucks.
7) when we win 2/3 trophies in season- feck trophies, we played ugly football
8) when we lose cup- feck jose, he didn't win nothing
9) comments on liverpool and tottenham with zero trophies and with only one or two young players- they play sooo great. We want poch. We want klopp.
10) We want sanchez. Best player in league. Day when we signed him- what will happen after 4 years? Jose doesn't have long run vision
Anti-jose brigade want something that in football doesn't exist. And would slate every manager who comes here. Zidane, poch, simeone, tuchel....every of them would be fecked here. Playing youth, playing attacking football and winning things is not possible anymore at the same time.
Because Jose
9 pages of the thread suggest maybe I wasn't alone in my feelings.
Why do people find it so hard to believe we are a team without identity after the manager has spent 300 million?
You have some good points. I agree with 1) and 2), 4), 5), 6), 9) and 10). I'll give even 7) but the credit he had for winning 2 trophies was exhausted after the Sevilla debacle which was a travesty and now he must start fresh.
However, 3) -- he wins ugly, is a valid criticism for the second half of this season. The problem is not the result, the problem is whether its' sustainable. Because when we win "ugly", we don't even look organized like a proper defensive team like Atletico. Our attack looks like a bunch of individuals trying different things, while our CBs keep changing on a regular basis. There is no cohesion.
If we were playing ugly football like Atletico, fine. But it is not even organized. It is a mess, and such a style of play will eventually start to go sour in the long run.
Yeah lets go into next season with aged wingers at full back because red4ever is a little upset at big bad Jose
Are you a child? We have Shaw who he doesnt use. We have loaned out Forsu Mensah who he loaned out. Are you ok with him spunking loads more $$ to have players not even making the cup final match day squad? Terrible recruitment policy at the club whoever has made these decisions in the past 5 years. How many signings were a success?
You’re embarrassing yourself. Quit the mental gymnastics. At the end of the day 300 million has been spent over the course of what 4 transfer Windows and Mourinho still blames his players for the garbage we’ve seen
We all laughed at moyes when he kept saying I’m still learning about my players but here’s mister mourinho who after 2 years can’t sort it out
I see no progress and I couldn’t care if anyone disagreed. The first few games of 2016 under mourinho were better than the last few of 2018 how is that progress
You want us to compete for the title with Shaw and TFM??
I'm fine with that yes, i don't want our manager to put someone in the matchday squad because he's afraid it'll look like his signings haven't worked out. Players don't always need to be instant success.
We've had one signing under Jose that hasn't worked out, one.
It is almost impossible to play that way against Chelsea when they are 1-0 up and just defending deep with 10 men.
Without a target man to create space behind the CB's it is impossible to get the space Rashford need. Just look at the Liverpool game how it was set up that Rashford was running behind the defence on every ball Lukaku challenged for.
If they leave space behind the defence Jose would love to just exploit it and let Rashford run all game long.
Games like this final is won with creativity to unlock the defence and not just runs behind the defence.
Conte's Chelsea is superboring, they have Hazard who have the speed and creativity to create the space for himself and stupid defending like Phil Jones did on the goal makes it even easier.
Just look how we did against Liverpool. Salah, the best player in the league this season couldn't do anything.
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Only one? Pogba, Lukaku, Mkhitaryan, Lindelof, Bailly, Matic and Ibrahimovic. I would say that out of the list only Matic and Lukaku have performed at a decent level this season. You disagree?
Do you honestly believe signing two shiny fullbacks will win us the title? Don't you think that with attackers like Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial, Mata, Pogba we should be hammering teams more. Those collective group of attackers are on par with any team in the Premier League, and yet we set up every game not to concede first. I would say that it doesnt how much money he spends this summer, unless he changes his dinosaur tactics it wont matter one iota
Yes, I am. Barring Pogba of course because he's a player I never wanted for that price.
Bailey was a good price and he's been out for what, 100 days this season from November to February? He needed quite a major surgery on his ankle and was always going to be eased in. In fact he returned straight into the XI and made a few errors before being dropped. That's little on Jose, unless you're blaming him for not having hindsight that Bailey will get injured after joining us.
Matic is a great transfer for a great fee. Zlatan was free and scored 28 goals for us in his first season. Also, from a wage budget pretty much replaced Falcao+some more. I remember reading somewhere his second season contract terms weren't the same so I don't think we actually got robbed much there.
Sanchez was free and the jury is still out for him. Mkhitaryan was bought for a decent fee and we traded him for Sanchez so on paper that's not a bad piece of business.
Lukaku is worth the money, too. In a market where Kane is worth 100m plus, Higuain went for 100m EUR and so on, a 24 year old Lukaku for £75m is fine business. Especially the way we did it (hijacking Chelsea and wrapping it up so quick).
Yes. We have spent.a lot of money. 3rd highest in fact and we rank 2nd in the league. I don't think we have done badly and I don't think José chronically blames players. He has protected them many times too.
Saying they need a better mentality is necessary and a lot of them need toughening up. I'm an advocate of this personally, but if you think Mourinho hasn't shown any progress on our squad in the 2 years he's been here then you're seriously deluded. We went from 5th to 2nd ffs. Football brand will come in time but at least let him start getting us results first.
Spoilt fans like yourself want to spit your dummy out when we aren't contending AND playing sexy football. This shit takes time and if you don't have that then go and watch American sports.
Sanchez wasn't free because Mkhi wasn't free. And Sanchez's wages are absolutely huge.
Sanchez was free because we traded him for a player of our own. Mkhitaryan had a decent return for his first season despite starting slowly and was pivotal to our Europa campaign. Sanchez may well turn it on from next season (in fact I think it's reasonable to expect him to). I'm unsure how relevant wages are to this debate when Jose came in and pretty much threw out top earners like Schweinstiger and was the only manager to get rid of Rooney (also on a stupid salary) after a season. Safe to say after clearing out them two and the likes of Depay/Schniederlin that we had a good wage bill to work with.
Mkhi would have been sold for 30m at least, he wasn't going to leave for free. It's pretty simple.
Pogba and Bailey have been excellent signings who will be great for us. Zlatan served his purpose and Lindeloff is young and a bedding in season too early to tell.
As for fullbacks It'll give us a better chance and nothing more, I'm positive we won't win the league with any of our current options though. Seems to be the acceptable standard of player has fallen due to a big percentage not liking the manager.
But instead we traded him for Sanchez. He was dogshite in his second season (and unspectacular for Arsenal since ). We traded a player who couldn't perform in a United shirt and reportedly wouldn't respond well to the managers approach for a player who is more talented, more proven and fits the managers ethos more.
And we didn't pay a fee. So it was a free transfer. It really is that simple.
What a stupid reasoning. No matter how rubbish Mkhi was, he would still have commanded a good fee had we sold him to another team. He was a Bundesliga player of the year and still in his prime. He wasn't going to leave as a free agent.
We will agree to disagree if you think Pogba and Bailly have been excellent signings. Cannot reason with some people. I cannot think of one player that Mourinho has developed into a better player at Utd. If you take City the difference in Otamendi, Sterling, Sane this season was excellent.
And Sanchez was always going to command a fee too.
We traded a player for another player and there was no transfer fee involved. This implies Sanchez came here for free (from a monetary perspective). There is nothing rubbish about it.
Or if you prefer to look at value, we traded a less valuable player on the market in Mkhi for a more valuable player on the market (Sanchez). Take whichever you prefer. Either way it doesn't make Sanchez for Mkhi swap a bad deal so get over it.
Ok, I expect if Mourinho goes, the next guy will bring a major title within his first 2 years of reign and have us playing like Man City/Liverpool. If that does not happen, I expect that the anti-Mourinho brigade will stay quiet and stop posting derogatory comments about our (next) manager. Cause I will be first to tell you I told you so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyone else with our current squad would have won back to back PL titles plus a couple of CL ones - you can also through a couple of micky mouse cups. Cause somewhere I read one of the caf members saying our squad is as good as Man City's one.
So I honestly wish Mourinho resigned today if possible, not sacked, resigned. Especially after our beloved fans who love football and have traditions have threatened his life and family.
We are a disgraceful bunch. There are more important things in life that football. Go home Jose, we do not deserve you. We deserve the lazy, uninspired, talentless dross we call our players.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyone else with our current squad would have won back to back PL titles plus a couple of CL ones - you can also through a couple of micky mouse cups. Cause somewhere I read one of the caf members saying our squad is as good as Man City's one.
So I honestly wish Mourinho resigned today if possible, not sacked, resigned. Especially after our beloved fans who love football and have traditions have threatened his life and family.
We are a disgraceful bunch. There are more important things in life that football. Go home Jose, we do not deserve you. We deserve the lazy, uninspired, talentless dross we call our players.
The major problem I have with Mourinho is that he is a poor man manager. He blasts Martial and Rashford very publicly one week and then expects them to be brimming full of confidence the next. I don't think he understands how to motivate players beyond this siege mentality thing which he admittedly does pretty well. You need more strings to your bow than that.
We have some of the best attacking players in the league and yet we never come straight out of the blocks attacking and putting on pressure. The first 30 minutes of every game is spent with us piddling around with it at the back.
He pays £89m for Pogba and doesn't build the team around his strengths. He buys Sanchez and plays him on the left, inhibiting Pogba's play. We have no clear plan for our attacking. Seems to be "just make it up as you go along lads". We are ponderous and slow in the main.
I'm fecking fed up with him blaming the players. We have good enough players. Its him who is holding everything back. I want him gone in the summer, not that this will happen.
We have some of the best attacking players in the league and yet we never come straight out of the blocks attacking and putting on pressure. The first 30 minutes of every game is spent with us piddling around with it at the back.
He pays £89m for Pogba and doesn't build the team around his strengths. He buys Sanchez and plays him on the left, inhibiting Pogba's play. We have no clear plan for our attacking. Seems to be "just make it up as you go along lads". We are ponderous and slow in the main.
I'm fecking fed up with him blaming the players. We have good enough players. Its him who is holding everything back. I want him gone in the summer, not that this will happen.
Well you missed Lindelof who for £35m would be expected to be starting games, again the Jury is out.
I do agree Matic and Lukaku we’re decent signings and Bailly could be a good player but he’s plagued with injuries but the rest have been gash. To be starting Smalling and Jones in our biggest game of the season is insulting honestly.
Valencia Jones Smalling Young....fecking hell im not gonna say anymore that defence is shocking.
Why should it be insulting to play Smalling and Jones? They've contributed to one of the tightest defenses in the Premier League in the last 4 years. I know Ddg helps but if they were as rubbish as you imply, we'd have leaked far more goals.
It's not insulting to play them. It's an indictment of how poor our transfer recruitment policy is. 35m for a CB who didnt even make the squad
It just shows how shite our transfer policy has been.
We’ve signed Shaw, Darmian, Lindelof, Rojo, Blind, Bailly for around £160m since those 4 we’re at the club and none of them seem capable of playing 38 games a season. Fecking shambles.
That's fine but you blamed mourinho in your original post I quoted and he didn't buy Shaw, Rojo, Blind and Darmien. He bought 2 central defenders and one of them had a major injury this season, disrupting the value he adds.
Going by reports though he looks to want a cb and a full back. So at least he agrees and is trying to fix the situation.
Lukaku, Matic and possibly Willian.
He may as well go all out and bring Damien Duff out of retirement and convince Makelele at the same time.
He may as well go all out and bring Damien Duff out of retirement and convince Makelele at the same time.
Take up a new hobby maybe?
I can't find the quotes, but players that have played under him have said that he seldom focuses on the attacking tactics(Pretty sure some Real Madrid players stated this after he was sacked there). And that how the team creates chances is from improvisation from the players, not from a system.
So not suprising that "inexperienced" players like Martial and Rashford does not thrive under these circumstances. And attacking players with low football-IQ, like Sanchez, will not fit well with such tactics. Or that attacking players, in general, underperforms....
A lot of illusion around our standing as a club because of the 2nd place position. What happened is that the quality of our football caught up with results, and individual feats of brilliance from players became rare. Our early season form owed a lot to the latter, and following the first Liverpool game, our confidence took a hit and it probably affected the morale of said players that could pull us out of a fire.
As for our attacking play, goals scored is one metric, but we are sixth for shots on goal, shots on target (and I'd be curious to see where we stand in the nbr of chances created table), and that is because we are not deployed with an attacking mind-set and the cohesion in our play is too lacking to be able to generate a constant goal threat.
As for our defensive play, it is owes much to parking the bus after we take a lead or even before a ball is kicked on occasion, with a lot of credit to De Gea.
Our saving grace is our shot-conversion rate, and that owes a lot to our players individual quality.
The season ended with us lacking any flair when on the ball, but when you look at the game time afforded (and the way they were managed) to the players with the most capacity to create/convert something (Mata & Mkhy for key passes and Martial for a conversion rate only second to Lukaku's), it is not a very surprising end to the season.
I am afraid we are in for playing at the Theatre of Zs rather than the Theatre of Dreams next season, more worrying is that I am wondering if Mourinho has already lost the dressing room, he has manipulated the narrative well enough to be able to ship out a boat of players, but 11 or more is unfeasible.
As for our attacking play, goals scored is one metric, but we are sixth for shots on goal, shots on target (and I'd be curious to see where we stand in the nbr of chances created table), and that is because we are not deployed with an attacking mind-set and the cohesion in our play is too lacking to be able to generate a constant goal threat.
As for our defensive play, it is owes much to parking the bus after we take a lead or even before a ball is kicked on occasion, with a lot of credit to De Gea.
Our saving grace is our shot-conversion rate, and that owes a lot to our players individual quality.
The season ended with us lacking any flair when on the ball, but when you look at the game time afforded (and the way they were managed) to the players with the most capacity to create/convert something (Mata & Mkhy for key passes and Martial for a conversion rate only second to Lukaku's), it is not a very surprising end to the season.
I am afraid we are in for playing at the Theatre of Zs rather than the Theatre of Dreams next season, more worrying is that I am wondering if Mourinho has already lost the dressing room, he has manipulated the narrative well enough to be able to ship out a boat of players, but 11 or more is unfeasible.
3 post Fergie signings at the back were sitting on the bench. Not like we didnt have the money to buy new players is it?