It was a fine deal, but it certainly wasn't free. It would only be free if we didn't give anything for Sanchez, or gave something which didn't have any market value. We gave a player who did have some market value.
With Jose still in charge - I am NOT looking forward to next season
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
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It was a fine deal, but it certainly wasn't free. It would only be free if we didn't give anything for Sanchez, or gave something which didn't have any market value. We gave a player who did have some market value.
It was free from a monetary perspective which is what I meant.
And the root of my argument was that it was a good deal. But Jose has all of a sudden spent poorly which makes no sense whatsoever.
Let’s look at the spine of both squads...
Lloris < De Gea
Alderweireld > any United CB
Dembele > Matic
Eriksen > Pogba
Kane > Lukaku
They have better full backs & they have got better wingers.
Make your case, let’s hear you out.
Didn't Pep get knocked out against Monaco last season? Guess what he changed. Absolutely nothing. The Pep way turned out to be pretty good after all.
One easily could have said the same about Fergie from '03'-'06. I prefer to look long-term. I believe it is smarter to do so and that others are being reactionary. Sir Alex was always a great manager, even when he was struggling. Pep wasn't 'exposed' or a 'fraud' last season: he was just working out the kinks. People were making grandiose claims that a 'possession-based' style wouldn't work in the PL. I preferred the simpler explanation that he just needed time. Jose is the same, especially given that we'd been in a bad place when he took over.
You do realise that that is irrelevant, don't you? If you want to judge how attacking we've been (that is the question upon which I was pondering) you have to look at the whole season. To look at the second half of the season while ignoring the first is a mistake of reasoning.
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Let's say Poch has a better squad. How, given the quantity of money spent by yourselves, is that any less embarrassing for United and Mourinho?
We don’t have the money, our rebuilding process is too slow. To be fair, it’s also coincided with the crazy transfer window where players who should normally cost £30m are now £80m.
Hiring Moyes & LVG immediately after Fergie has set us 10 years backwards. Unless a ridiculous amount of cash is spent a la Real Madrid, I don’t see us challenging. Changing the manager won’t change our fortunes, 80% of our squad are not good enough.
Although you out it across rather matter of factly, the above comparisons are your opinion and they are, by extension, very much open to debate.
This is my opinion.
Lloris < De Gea (agree)
Alderweireld > any United CB (agree)
Dembele > Matic (disagree. Dembele has had an average season by his own high standards. Matic has outperformed over the course of the season.
Eriksen > Pogba (partially disagree. Eriksen was the more consistent of the two this season, but Pogba has by far the higher ceiling)
Kane > Lukaku (agree)
Suggesting that Spurs have a better squad (many would say manager too) obviously begs the question, how on earth did they finish below us in the table?
Ah yes, because Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba, Rashford, Mata are a poor bunch of attacking players. If people on here cant see that it's the tactics the manager imposes and the restrictions then we have major problems.
Precisely.
We could sign Neymar tomorrow and we'd still look shit in attack.
Jose's first thought is that we must not concede, not that we must try to score. I know there is a balance to these things, but he's way too defensively minded.
Spot on by James Ducker. Mourinho should be ordered to bring in an attacking coach and change the style of play next season and work with the players he has.
Pogba's ceiling seems to get higher and higher. Still waiting for him to get near it
I’d address the ones where we don’t agree.
Saying Matic has outperformed Dembele is heretic. What does Matic do other than dawdle on the ball and slow counter attacks. It takes Matic about 7 touches to find a pass after receiving the ball. He’s never played a pass with one touch in his career here. Too slow to launch attacks, too slow to cover once he’s caught out.
On Pogba vs Eriksen, Eriksen wins. Yes, Pogba is probably the most talented but he lacks a football brain. See all the flicks, dribbles, close control, etc are a means to an end(productivity). A player that can dribble 8 players before assisting is as good as the one that can tread an eye of the needle pass to assist.
Eriksen knows what to do in every situation he finds himself. Even when it doesn’t come off, you appreciate the intent. Pogba is hit & miss. He dribbles when a simple pass should suffice, 80% of the time, Pogba makes the wrong decision. Pogba is the talented but Eriksen is the better footballer, the better team player.
Spurs don’t have the better manager, they have the better squad. Many of their players would walk into our first team. We have the better manager but Jose inherited shit players & it’s taking the board aeons to move out the deadweights.
2 new full backs and a central midfielder are enough - I think we do need those. Attacking wise though I don't think we need any more.
Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Mata, Lingard, maybe Pereira if he comes back and Gomes might get a game or two. If you can't get a tune out of that lot, an addition or two isn't going to make any difference at all.
Let's say we give Shaw a chance at LB. Now im not his biggest fan but he has been harshly treated and I do think there is potential there. I agree we need a RB, but again Forsu Mensah hasnt done too bad this season. Agree on the CM part. I think we only have Matic, Pogba, Herrera and McTomminay. Perreria coming back though. Hope he gets an opportunity
If I’m honest, the thought of spending another hundred million quid on new players fills me with dread. All that means is yet more transition, waiting for new players to bed in and settle in the league. Next thing you know, we’re out of the title race, Mourinho is blaming the players and it’s this season all over again.
I’m desperately hoping we sign one, maybe two, fullbacks and otherwise make the most of what we have. Maybe another CM as a squad player. Bollocks to another massive overhaul. Mourinho’s been here two years. We shouldn’t be taking about 3, 4 or 5 or new first-teamers.
Of course we have the money. With the turnover this club has, to say we cant compete is ludicrous. It's one thing not to have the players, but not to get the best out of the players you have is another thing altogether. And that's Mourinho's MO. It's everyone elses fault. The two best players in the Premiership were under Mourinho's watch. And he sold them both. I dont want to see that happen here.
It is quite funny that the one he's happy with is the one that looked like Carlton Palmer's less talented older brother in his final season at Chelsea.
And what you are looking forward to? This can be said for Moyes and LVG, but here I don't think so.
This season was our best season after SAF in the league. We reached Fa cup final and play much better than Chelsea. They got what 3 damn attacks and a penalty the whole game and park the bus that was ugly win and If Jose has done this and win it the world would have said this is shit win with ugly football.
We need few more class players with experience for the CL, not other manager, who will start his own project and there are 3 more strange years of his ideas, until he complete the team, but after two years we will sack him too and here we go again?
This season was our best season after SAF in the league. We reached Fa cup final and play much better than Chelsea. They got what 3 damn attacks and a penalty the whole game and park the bus that was ugly win and If Jose has done this and win it the world would have said this is shit win with ugly football.
We need few more class players with experience for the CL, not other manager, who will start his own project and there are 3 more strange years of his ideas, until he complete the team, but after two years we will sack him too and here we go again?
We seem pretty keen on Sandro - and he's definitely way better than Shaw so an upgrade and think most people would be happy with that signing. Agree that Shaw has been badly treated but he doesn't appear to have helped himself too much either.
Fosu Mensah might be OK (I think he'll be an excellent player in a few years time, but perhaps not next year), but wouldn't want to rely on him. Would prefer to get a 1st choice RB and have Fosu Mensah as a back up or back out on loan again and Valencia can be back up.
CM we need at least one. Just hope we don't get someone who is 6ft4 to replace Fellaini just because they are tall.......
That's disingenuous journalism from a guy with an agenda, given his profile banner is a pic of Pep & Jose at Barcelona.
Ibra is 36 and left by his own accord, he suffered a major injury that he couldn't come back from to play at the Prem level. Jose was a gentleman in letting Ibra make the move to Galaxy and continuing his career.
Lukaku has had a good season, there's no issues between Jose and Lukaku.
Pogba's uncertain future is a media driven story only.
Lindelof didn't make the FA Cup squad. So, why should he have done? He's not our best defender.
Pep bought them by the cartload and won the league. No bedding time, no transition.
Its' about buying and using wisely. If you buy average or inconsistent players, expect transition. We should not be targeting the likes of Perisic or Willian for attacking positions when other teams look for talent in the mold of Sane or Fekir. Jose needs to spend well this summer, could be crucial for him.
Jardim and Sarri to replace Mouinho?Seriously?You want a 59 year old who has never won a trophy to take charge of United??Or a 43 year old who still has a long long way to go before he can be considered an A list manager,let alone manage United?I don't think so...
I want Jose to stay,but if I had to pick someone to succeed him,it would be Pochettino...He hasn't won a trophy yet but he has already achieved great success in England....But anyways,all this talk is futile cause Jose will definitely be in charge next season...
This is very true. Regardless of the result, each match is so dull to watch.
Not sure its entirely Mourinho's fault. This has been the norm for the 2 managers before him too. I can't see any realistic way for us to play exciting football any time soon.
Not sure its entirely Mourinho's fault. This has been the norm for the 2 managers before him too. I can't see any realistic way for us to play exciting football any time soon.
What predicament?Guiding us to our best league finish in 5 seasons?Seriously,that's some predicament to be in...
Incorrect. The only players from City's best XI signed last summer (other than their keeper) were full-backs (and Mendy only lasted a few months before getting injured and replaced with a settled squad player). Which is exactly the sort of transition I think we could handle.
have a break ffs, watch the World Cup, take in a bit of the cricket, there's plenty water gonna flow under a few bridges before next season materializes on the horizon
failing that, go & check out supporting someone else -
failing that, go & check out supporting someone else -
Your assessment of his ability is unfair. His role in the team is not initiate attacks of any kind, he is supposed to provide cover for our attacking players when and where necessary. His primary role is that of a screen for the defense, which he has peformed to an admirable level of consistency all season long. He brings an element of calm and poise to our midfield, whilst remaining as tactically aware as any player in the premier league. Matic has abeen a model of reliability, Dembele doesn't come close.
Pogba is an enigma. Frustrating as hell, you just never know what you're going to get from him. I disagree that he lacks a football brain, quite the contrary in fact, he's a hugely intelligent footballer, the issue is his ego gets in the way far to often. He believes himself the best player in the squad - rightly or wrongly - and the onus is on him to be the main creater, the midfield engine and the teams primary dribbler to boot (overdoing it one might say?) if only he could release some of the responsibility and start doing the simple things more often, I'm sure we would see a different player. Jose needs to work on him over the summer. Firstly his attitude (ego) and perhaps go about finding a foil to help release some of that responsibility.
Ironcally Eriksen would be the perfect player top act as Pogba's foil, not only that but his intelligent movement and incredible range of passing would contribute to our success just as much. Problem is him costing a ludicrous amount of money to acquire. I've always been a huge fan of Eriksen, be like a dream come true to see Jose pick him up over the summer. Just a dream though.
Agreed they don't have the better manager (their records speak for themselves) but disagree they have the better squad. Also nothing here explains how Spurs managed to finish below us in the table. I would concede that Spurs and United have a fairly comparable squad and it's difficult to differentiate between the two.
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It's unreal how many people on this forum think their opinion is so important it requires it's own thread. Save this nonsense for a Jose thread you whiny child.
Pogue, don’t look at the money. The transfer market is crazy enough that £500m is the new £50m. Look at the number of personnels Jose has bought in
comparison to his nemesis across town.
The count is
Pep 18-7 Jose.
And City were in a much better shape than us before both managers arrived. Only Jose can add 7 players to LVG’s team in the final season and take us to a 2nd position. It’s an unreal achievement. Our squad is not good enough, we have make-shift players in all most every position.
Spurs' have better wingers? Like who?
Two years back you'd be laughed at if you said Erikson was better than Pogba. Testament to our great coaching. Also Dembele isn't better than Matic.
We clearly have a better squad than Spurs. More quality and more depth.
To be fair the money wasnt really the point he was making (it seems to me, at least). Neither was whatever City are doing. The point is that signing more players makes it more likely we have another "transitional season" as new players bed in. If we sign less players there is less adjustment, as players get to know each other.
Best case scenario, after a good pre season, the likes of Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, Rashford et al are much more familiar with each other and better able to anticipate each other's moves on the pitch.
I think the point Pogue was making - and if he wasnt, I am certainly happy to - is we could find we look considerably better next season than we did this - WITHOUT huge changes to personnel. Though obviously one or two signings, especially in defence - and maybe a right winger - would strengthen us.
Quality over quantity please.
Exactly! Some posters 100% backing of Mourinho is bordering on the crazy now.
We don’t even have any wingers. Martial, Mata, Rashford & Lingard are not wingers. They are make shift players who constantly moan about wanting to play in other positions. None of them is as good as Heung Son in that position.
So great coaching is the reason Pogba can’t sort his head in big games, can’t make the right decisions, can’t take set-pieces, can’t punt accurate shots from a distance, can’t hit the target with a free header in a cup final? These excuses are starting to thin out.
Thanks for the clarity.
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Only Jose could take us to second.
Tottenham have a better squad than us.
We have spent 300 million but have make shift players in every position.
fecking hellz
Exactly. And we’ve just seen that signing Sanchez alone threw a spanner into what was previously a pretty well-functioning machine. That said, we need to do whatever it takes, in my opinion, to effectively attack down the right. If we want more goals, being dangerous on both sides of the pitch might help. From that perspective, I don’t care how many signings it takes.
People sometimes forget how atrocious we were under Moyes/LVG....3 years of regression is a long time in the PL...Jose has improved us significantly and I definitely want him to stay(and so does the club)....
It's amazing that some many people were saying last year that he had a better season that Spurs because we qualified for CL and won 2 trophies. How many of those people are saying that we progressed this year by finishing second?
We have too many average players
1 Lingard is 26 yrs old and should have been more consistent in his performances
2 Jones who is prone to costly mistakes
3 Smalling (same as Jones)
4 Fellaini ( I don't really know his qualities and why he plays for Utd)
5 Shaw who has been affected by that injury and out of shape and form
6 Mata (too slow and as a comparison just look to similar calibre players like both Silvas of City)
7 Martial (looks disinterested)
And players past their best
1 Valencia
2 Young
3 Matic (although I would excuse him for always trying his best)
And finally a manager who doesn't care what all Utd fans are craving for....attack minded and entertaining football.
1 Lingard is 26 yrs old and should have been more consistent in his performances
2 Jones who is prone to costly mistakes
3 Smalling (same as Jones)
4 Fellaini ( I don't really know his qualities and why he plays for Utd)
5 Shaw who has been affected by that injury and out of shape and form
6 Mata (too slow and as a comparison just look to similar calibre players like both Silvas of City)
7 Martial (looks disinterested)
And players past their best
1 Valencia
2 Young
3 Matic (although I would excuse him for always trying his best)
And finally a manager who doesn't care what all Utd fans are craving for....attack minded and entertaining football.
You can hold both opinions without any contradiction.
Judging a season on trophies (which is not unreasonable) we did have a better season than Spurs last year.
Scoring more goals, getting more points and finishing ahead of Spurs/Liverpool is an obvious improvement on our league campaign of 2016/17.
Don’t know how anyone can disagree with any of the above?