I get you mate. Its so obvious hes on self sabotage mode. The man wants to be sacked. We have seen it all before
With Jose still in charge - I am NOT looking forward to next season
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
- Start date
I get you mate. Its so obvious hes on self sabotage mode. The man wants to be sacked. We have seen it all before
Isn't the fans constant moaning more exhausting though?
There's a giant mirror that should be held up to our fanbase when we make such claims
Sorry your right... I said it wrong. He doesn't have an attractive style of play. He clearly does have a style of play we witnessed it all last season.
No the fans moaning isn't exhausting, not if I feel it is justified. What is exhausting though is fans moaning about fans moaning. Theres nothing worse. As paying fans and people who love this club dearly, we are entitled to be disgruntled when our manager is bringing everyone down
The fans moaning is purely a result of Mourinho’s stance. He could have adopted a variety of stances re this preseason. He could have said he’s looking forward to seeing if the kids can stake claims for the First team, he could have said that this is largely an experimental tour given the World Cup. He hasn’t though - he’s just grumbled, moaned and shamed a young, inexperienced squad publicly. It’s a total joke, and the last thing I’d expect from a united manager. All the big clubs are in the same boat, but they seem to be getting on with it.
But they moaned since day one. Its a vicious cycle that both parties have to take the blame on.
Jose doesn't dictate that our fanbase jumps over new signings etc before a ball is kicked
Fair point, good retort. Though Mourinho's last PL title came two years prior to his appointment at Manchester United.
EDIT: One year.
Last edited:
Maybe a few did, but I think the vast majority were positive regarding the hiring of Jose. Even when performances have been poor - we’ve never seen visible anti-mourinho sentiments other than online. For a team that finished 2nd last season, and have won two trophies since he arrived, I don’t understand Jose’s misery - it’s this that’s putting me off.
This season is going to be great. I can feel it.
For the first time in a while, we are going into the season as underdogs and like we are totally unprepared. The pressure is on City and Liverpool to win it. The forecast is for United to completely crumble under Jose's mismanagement with him being sacked before the season ends. It won't end that way to the shock of many.
For the first time in a while, we are going into the season as underdogs and like we are totally unprepared. The pressure is on City and Liverpool to win it. The forecast is for United to completely crumble under Jose's mismanagement with him being sacked before the season ends. It won't end that way to the shock of many.
The problem is that the negativity has destroyed our season already. If we win our first two or three games people will not want to admit that their pessimism was way overboard so they'll keep on taking cheap shots and create a climate where everything just becomes pointless unless we win every single match. Making it nearly impossible for the team to do well.
If it isn't discussed here, it'll be discussed in other threads. At least here it is mostly contained so other threads can't be derailed as much (does still happen but if this thread was closed, other threads would be 10x worse (yes, I know, hard to imagine). People are free to make more positive threads. Later on I'll be making a thread with the quotes from the press conference verbatim so people can get the context of all quotes. As it stands, some quotes are being taken out of context and made to seem worse than they actually are.
Us modmins have been discussing what to do to try and curtail what is happening with the caf getting more and more toxic but from what we've discussed there is not really anything for the members to be in high spirits about with even the manager seeming to be miserable in conferences, his jabs at board and some of the players, plus taking into account the way we play whereas other clubs seem to have an air of positivity around them. We don't want to be a place where the modding ends up so over the top that people are afraid to say anything like RAWK and ResetEra.
There needs to be a sense of unity but when there's the feeling of division from our manager before the season has even begun, the caf is going to be the same.
A couple of things there will be a clampdown on is opposition members coming here just to gloat rather than discuss which is just making things worse, and people posting 'fake quotes'. If anyone sees either, report it.
Gotta admit not optimistic at all. The signs of the Mou 3rd season implosion are pretty patent now. Really wished it could have worked... Glazers and Ed are not absolved but Mou man you are not doing yourself any favours by behaving like this.
That's all I needed to know. The quality of posts have become so low the last few years have been unbearable. Lost most of my acquitances on here.
That points to a broader problem and is indicative of how polarising Mourinho is. Too many people have picked a corner and are sticking to it, rather that showing some objectivity - which would go a long way to helping this place out.
When Jose first went to Chelsea he had the X factor, made players believe in themselves, got the very best out of them. It almost felt like he was an extra man out there.
A decade and a bit on and his people skills have declined to such an extent that, whilst still a top coach, he's a mile off being a great manager these days.
To me, he's trying to engineer a sacking.
A decade and a bit on and his people skills have declined to such an extent that, whilst still a top coach, he's a mile off being a great manager these days.
To me, he's trying to engineer a sacking.
Last edited:
A lot of the posters are pessimistic, and yes a few quotes are being taken out of context. But there is certainly cause for concern here. People aren’t blind to the fact that there is a seriously discontented manager here complaint about everything in this pre-season. We may not know the root cause here but cafers surely be allowed to speculate. If people want to be on the other end of the spectrum and blindly insist everything is fine that’s fine, but I wouldn’t say the pessimists are bing toxic.
You said it mate.
Lets look at Jose's recent comments and behaviour objectively then
- He berates players publicly. Fact. Criticising Martial for being at home with his new born child after all the berating of the lad he has done constantly ever since he became manager
- Complaining about his resources in pre season when he could be optimistic about the young lads coming through
- Complaining about the board publicly when he has already spent hundreds of millions and most of his own signings haven't been a success
- Saying things like "i am worried about the start of the season". How are we supposed to feel about that
You can complain about the fans opinions all you like but Jose is doing nothing to help himself here. There comes a point where you can't defend the man any more
That's his only major trophy in six years though isn't it.
So he's not a serial winner at all anymore is he. He's an occasional winner.
That title was his second in 4 years.
He has won something like 5 trophies in the last 5 years as well...I mean...
He does win, its If you can stomach how he goes about it
Guys, please read this with an open mind.
I have been closely watching Jose from his Chelsea days. One of the things what I like most in him is how he portraits himself Infront of the media. He is ready to go to any extend to get what he wants. He doesn't care about what others think of him.
I agree that his brand of football is not that entertaining when his team is playing against strong opponents.
But those who says that Jose's teams always plays boring football haven't watched how his teams played during his Chelsea 1st stint, his Real Madrid term and Chelsea 2nd stint 2nd season until December. Bar some high profile matches, his teams were playing very enjoyable counter attacking football and some times possession football as well. His Real Madrid team scored 148 goals in 2010-11 seaaon, 174 goals in 2011-12 season, and 153 goals in 2012-13 season. His Chelsea team scored 107 goals in 2004-05 season, 100 goals in 2013-14 season and 109 goals in 2014-15 season. Looking at this record, how can you say that his teams plays defensive and boring football?
Anyway, considering how hostile some of us are against Mourinho (it was clearly visible as soon as some fake quotes were out yesterday), I am sure that these facts are nowhere near enough to convince them. But when you look at his record, one thing is very obvious. If you give him what he asked for, he will deliver. And when he has a team as per his demands, the style of football will be much better and entertaining. The current United team is still far from a Jose team and for some reason, the board is unwilling to give him what he wants. And he is not even asking for superstars for each positions. Actually, most of his targets are very underwhelming in terms of profile. So, you can't even call him a cheque book manager in that regard. But he will moan and will be irritating until you give him a team at least close to what he asked for. And don't expect his team to play attractive football until his defence is strong and has earned his confidence.
Yes, many will say that other managers will do much better with this team. But when you are judging his performance, judge him based on what he asked for and what he actually got.
And if you believe that his mood in training is exactly the same as he portrays himself Infront of the media, then you know nothing about him. He uses the media to get what he wants from the board, from the players, from the referees, from the fans, etc. And please do listen to his players and managers opinions (including SAF) who actually know him in person before judging him as a person.
So, there are only two ways; either support him and give him what he wants or sack him and bring someone who is capable of winning the league and CL with this team (who?).
Anyway, you can't have your legs on two boats at the same time and expect to win the race.
I have been closely watching Jose from his Chelsea days. One of the things what I like most in him is how he portraits himself Infront of the media. He is ready to go to any extend to get what he wants. He doesn't care about what others think of him.
I agree that his brand of football is not that entertaining when his team is playing against strong opponents.
But those who says that Jose's teams always plays boring football haven't watched how his teams played during his Chelsea 1st stint, his Real Madrid term and Chelsea 2nd stint 2nd season until December. Bar some high profile matches, his teams were playing very enjoyable counter attacking football and some times possession football as well. His Real Madrid team scored 148 goals in 2010-11 seaaon, 174 goals in 2011-12 season, and 153 goals in 2012-13 season. His Chelsea team scored 107 goals in 2004-05 season, 100 goals in 2013-14 season and 109 goals in 2014-15 season. Looking at this record, how can you say that his teams plays defensive and boring football?
Anyway, considering how hostile some of us are against Mourinho (it was clearly visible as soon as some fake quotes were out yesterday), I am sure that these facts are nowhere near enough to convince them. But when you look at his record, one thing is very obvious. If you give him what he asked for, he will deliver. And when he has a team as per his demands, the style of football will be much better and entertaining. The current United team is still far from a Jose team and for some reason, the board is unwilling to give him what he wants. And he is not even asking for superstars for each positions. Actually, most of his targets are very underwhelming in terms of profile. So, you can't even call him a cheque book manager in that regard. But he will moan and will be irritating until you give him a team at least close to what he asked for. And don't expect his team to play attractive football until his defence is strong and has earned his confidence.
Yes, many will say that other managers will do much better with this team. But when you are judging his performance, judge him based on what he asked for and what he actually got.
And if you believe that his mood in training is exactly the same as he portrays himself Infront of the media, then you know nothing about him. He uses the media to get what he wants from the board, from the players, from the referees, from the fans, etc. And please do listen to his players and managers opinions (including SAF) who actually know him in person before judging him as a person.
So, there are only two ways; either support him and give him what he wants or sack him and bring someone who is capable of winning the league and CL with this team (who?).
Anyway, you can't have your legs on two boats at the same time and expect to win the race.
I don't dispute any of that, but the same fans are calling him out on this and losing their sh*t, will be nowhere to be seen in the event that Mourinho turns things around. That's my point.
Such is the strength of feeling by some on here, that some give the impression they'd sooner see Mourinho fail and United plunged into further uncertainty if the alternative was to watch Manchester United successfully managed by Mourinho. I don't believe that to be the case of course, it's just reflection of how toxic and divisive things have become here, not simply because of Mourinho but because as a team, we are nothing like as competitive as we once were.
It is the clash between the two that is making things toxic with two camps having opinions that are entrenched and when some from the two camps encounter each other, it is like two brick walls shouting at each other.
Plenty of times I've opened the transfer tweets thread to find someone saying one thing then another person replying just belittling them or moaning at them for having an opinion and it tends to be the same few names. That kind of thing isn't helping matters.
We're trying to do what we can. There was negativity at times under Fergie - about our midfield, 'zombie' football and the 'no value in the market' comments but we were still winning things and being competitive. Since he left, the negative has been magnified and there's been not much that people have been positive about other than re-signing Pogba, signing of Di Maria and Falcao (happiness shortlived), Martial's debut, the emergence of Rashford, winning the Europa League and a few other things.
I don't think theres a United fan in existence that wouldn't be more than happy to be proven wrong by him. With the money he has spent, theres no excuse for this level of negativity enveloping the club right now. Its his doing
Thanks for clarifying. I absolutely agree with that assessment. It is unfortunate particularly with any topics relating to Mou and Martial. There are vehement pro and against camps and there does not seem to be any tolerance for any rational debate or discussion by a lot of people. The truth as always lie somewhere in the middle but people just don’t want to hear it.
Good post.
I agree with a lot of this and generally think that we will be better this season than last. Lukaku, Pogba, Lingard, Bailly, Rashford and Perierra are all a year older. We have filled squad spaces with Dalot and Fred. Sanchez is having a full pre season. And all in all, we have good quality through the team.
I think the point people are making is that Jose isn't helping his own case with all the negativity. Yes, he plays the media well but he has also become tiresome. Also, it looks like he is failing to play the media these days, which is why he also looks more frustrated. He isn't the Jose of 2006 who had the press on his finger tips.
Anyway, I hope he plays better football this season!
The man is clearly on his usual path of self-destruct. Seems to be always be happening in his third season too.
What the feck you talking about, 81% of this forum wanted JM as United manager before he became one. Those 19% against, they expressed their reasoning behind it, nothing more nothing less, at least some did, because huge majority of people even had a go at smaller % group, saying opposition fans voted against too etc.
Its everything about push backs, i can say both, something positive what i like about JM and express my issue with him as manager in same sentence. The thing is, if i say something positive, i am yet to be marked and quoted by poster who hates JM. Express your issue with him, its not even opinion you just say how it is, how it was in the past, give example, oh boy you can put your ear on the ground because they are coming for you.
I'm really confused. There is so much we don't know about the talks between Mourinho and the Board, yet so much is made about his comments, how supposedly he didn't get who he wanted, etc. It works the other way too. My concern is with expectation that we can only succeed if a coach is given everything he wants.
I, for one, dislike this attitude and would like to see a coach first improve what he has and then add to it. I haven't seen more than 2-3 players who have played better than before. We can't just change the whole team because of a coach's inability to improve the existing squad. It's is a black hole of transfers without a clear direction.
On top of that, the signings already made are nothing spectacular either. We can agree or disagree on the level of their performances but they haven't really impacted us that much, apart from a couple.
TL;DR: I expect a coach to hunker down and work with what he has, improving it, then adding on top of it. As it stands, who has been improved?
I, for one, dislike this attitude and would like to see a coach first improve what he has and then add to it. I haven't seen more than 2-3 players who have played better than before. We can't just change the whole team because of a coach's inability to improve the existing squad. It's is a black hole of transfers without a clear direction.
On top of that, the signings already made are nothing spectacular either. We can agree or disagree on the level of their performances but they haven't really impacted us that much, apart from a couple.
TL;DR: I expect a coach to hunker down and work with what he has, improving it, then adding on top of it. As it stands, who has been improved?
It’s pathetically childish, but there we go, Mourinho wanted him regardless of what you want to label him. Fans who think he only wants old farts are wrong, obviously.
Jose has had more than enough investment previously to this summer (which isn’t completed).
We need a right winger, correct.
I'd be surprised if anyone is looking forward to the season the way Jose is at the moment.
Seriously, he is sucking the optimism and life out of everything at the moment. Is there nothing he is happy with right now?
Miserable feck, all he seems to be doing is throwing his players under the bus.
Seriously, he is sucking the optimism and life out of everything at the moment. Is there nothing he is happy with right now?
Miserable feck, all he seems to be doing is throwing his players under the bus.
Last edited:
It seems as if Jose has one again thrown himself in the firing line to take away from what the headlines should actually be - about losing 4-1 to Liverpool, instead of players being the main focus and perhaps harming confidence of some players such as Mctominay, he has most of the British press ridiculing him and it seems a lot of our fanbase too. It's ironic how fans some fans love to bring up loyalty when a performing player wants to leave or won't sign a contract but when a player/ mamager isn't performing they are harsh in criticism and are practically begging for them to leave, no wonder managers and players have the attitude of a "mercenary".
Last edited by a moderator:
I think that United's achilles heel had always been the transfer market. We think that we can get away with 1-2 shit summer transfer markets which might be the case in the 90s but not anymore. Teams have to invest. We've seen how we suddenly dropped out of grace during Moyes season and the same happened to Mourinho's and then Conte's Chelsea. Clubs need a constant flow of new blood. Players get complacent or old or injured and they need to be replaced. Weaknesses need to be closed or they will be exploited.
Returning on United, we had under invested heavily during SAF's last years and Moyes first years. We spend the dosh in LVG's first year but failed big time in his second year which saw us getting only Martial of note. We gave Mou 2 decent transfer windows only to go full skint mode again. Now can discuss the implications of that. Like for example how Mourinho should turn a player whose attitude sucks big time into the new Maldini, how its Mou's fault that the only decent CB we have (Bailly) has become injury prone and his inability to magically turn Chong, Fosu Mensah or anyone riding the hype train at the moment into instant world class articles. However that's not how football work. If we think that we can win the EPL title with two 33 year old makeshift wingers who moved to fullbacks because they are too shit to play on the flanks anymore then we are deluded at best. That isn't the only issue though. We've got no cover for Matic and Lukaku, no quality right winger and our defence lack leaders. Those issues won't be solved with wishful thinking or the academy's flavour of the season.
Returning to our transfers. Fred will be replacing Carrick, Dalot will probably slowly slot in for Valencia as age has started to catch up with him big time while Grant will probably spend his year with us waving at his family from the stands. Which means we're playing catchup and haven't really enforced the squad at all. Next year we'll have to tackle Martial's departure, a couple of injuries that will crop in and who knows the departure of Pogba/DDG as well. That means that 3 of our usual 4 signings will be dedicated to tackle that. We can't just get lazy in the transfer market, not with the tripe we've got.
If Martial leaves, then I am in the Mourinho-out camp
Define a great manager? In terms of trophies won, Jose is one of the best ever. In the last 2 seasons alone he's won us the League Cup, Europa League, achieved 2nd in the Prem, and FA Cup finalists - Liverpool, Arsenal, and Spurs would bite your hand off for such a return. Even Chelsea told Conte where to go, having won the Prem and FA Cup in 2 seasons. Are you telling me Conte's not a great manager either?
And your evidence of his lack of people skills is what? Lukaku had a choice between us and Chelsea, and he chose us because of Jose. Zlatan could have gone anywhere, and he chose us because of Jose. Seems the players like him a lot.
You make some decent points but at the same time...
Mourinho signed Lindelof (missed or not willing to coach him to start this season wants a 3rd CB signing). Signed Bailly but decided not to play him at the end of the year and in the fa cup final because he wanted to give players a chance to make the WC (what the feck is that about).
Fred will start regularly and will play a far bigger role than Carrick did last year - hardly played.
I rate Valencia higher than most and Jose fancies Dalot somewhat. Young is adequate (which isn’t good enough for United standards) and Shaw has a lot of talent but has been shit last 2 years - should’ve bought a LB.
Martial wants to leave because he’s on the fecking bench and in a defensive team and got slated in public alongside Rashford - that is on Jose.
The bottom line for me is Jose and the board are both flawed but Jose needs to get on with his fecking job because there’s a lot of talent there and he’s underperforming.
Is the sum of our parts better or worse than it should be?
We have plenty of top class
A great manager gets a team to perform better than it should, to get players to run through walls for them.
These days it seems there is a daily report of players having an issue with him, whilst the people who back him send to be reducing at a similar rare.
He's still a top coach, but could be win the title with an"ok" side these? Not in my view he couldn't (us in 2011 type time as an example of the sort of standard I mean)
Shaw (yeah I know)
Pogba
Miki
Martial
We have plenty of top class
A great manager gets a team to perform better than it should, to get players to run through walls for them.
These days it seems there is a daily report of players having an issue with him, whilst the people who back him send to be reducing at a similar rare.
He's still a top coach, but could be win the title with an"ok" side these? Not in my view he couldn't (us in 2011 type time as an example of the sort of standard I mean)
Shaw (yeah I know)
Pogba
Miki
Martial
Just a reality check. In the top 2 English competitions (Prem and FA Cup) we came 2nd in both. That's not bad at all.
In the first 4 seasons after Ferguson's departure, we averaged 67.25 pts in the Premier League with reaching top 4 on one occasion. Last year we comfortably finished 2nd on 81 pts behind a team that set a new point record (after spending £665.37m in the last 3 summers). Chances are, they're not going to reach triple digits again and the gap will be smaller between the two teams come the end of the season.
Granted that we sign at least 1 more player, our squad will have definitely strengthened and I myself wouldn't be disappointed with a season in which we get at least 85 points and reach the latter stages of the Champions League (I recognise last season's events are unacceptable). Winning a domestic trophy would also be a huge plus.
We've seen huge progress since Jose arrived and the success will inevitably follow, guys. Mourinho is a winner.
Granted that we sign at least 1 more player, our squad will have definitely strengthened and I myself wouldn't be disappointed with a season in which we get at least 85 points and reach the latter stages of the Champions League (I recognise last season's events are unacceptable). Winning a domestic trophy would also be a huge plus.
We've seen huge progress since Jose arrived and the success will inevitably follow, guys. Mourinho is a winner.