Azarenka and Sharapova are both fit though. I can let them off with their grunting.
Wimbledon 2015
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
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MaSha back to good Wimby performance after years
So sick of the Williams sisters.
Wasn't she in the final last year?
Edit: Nvm I was thinking of Kvitova's first title. Jeez time flies.
no out in 4th round, Kvitova and Bouchard in final
Ugh.
I remember watching that Kvitova - Sharapova final and I can't believe it was 4 years ago! Felt sure it was last year haha.
Serena's serving was off the charts in this last set.
seems like in the bag for Serena. Hers to lose. Boring times for women's tennis
Venus looked happy that her sister won 
Sharapova needn't bother turning up
She's going to win all four this year.
of course, that will be like 95% another title to the familyVenus looked happy that her sister won
everyone always claims FedEx dominated a weak era. How about this for the ladies, yet to hear any words?
Tbf, Serena has been doing it for near enough 15 years, and she's 33 now. Its impressive no matter what way you look at it.
Biggest reason I'm not a fan of her achievements is the physical advantage she has. It's like a weak bloke playing against the women. She swats their terrible serves away like they're flies.
The female I used to enjoy watching was Henin Harden. A pleasure to watch. That one handed backhand
Well the others players should get to the gym. But really we've seen today with Azarenka, there are players who can't hit just as hard and just as physical as Serena, so I've thought it was a non argument. Serena achievements are no less than anyone other tennis players(Be that male or female, she is one of the greatest ever). Although the players challenging her at the moment are pretty poor(But it was the same with Ferderer in the early 2000's).Biggest reason I'm not a fan of her achievements is the physical advantage she has. It's like a weak bloke playing against the women. She swats their terrible serves away like they're flies.
The female I used to enjoy watching was Henin Harden. A pleasure to watch. That one handed backhand
Should point I'm not even a Serena fan but I've never seen another players achievements down played so much as hers.
Not disputing that other players could be stronger but that sort of physical advantage or superiority doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
As bolded bit, of course her achievements are lesser than nadal and federer for example. They play at a much higher standard of the sport. And I do personally enjoy women's tennis and have always followed it.
What's the gap between men and women's tennis, compared to their equivalent in football?
very regret the Belgians did not bother any more
far more balanced than football I believe
Reminds me of this:
They were of course very young at the time.
They were of course very young at the time.
I'm still not with you on the physical stuff as I've pointed out Serena doesn't have a physical advantage over players. You make it sound like Serena has some genetic advantage over players.The fact she's stronger and hit's harder than everybody else is used against her, I'm not aiming anything at you but I think there's a real sinisterness at the 'criticism' aimed particularly at Serena.
.She still the only top player that I've seen get labelled a man constantly,(Even you did this in the last post I quoted and this thread when to shit to in the Serena vs Watson match.
.Constantly get's labelled a drug cheat(Ties in with the whole she's a man shite). Or at the very least her's is the first name people mentioned.
.Let's not forget the racist abuse(In her home country) she faced.
It's all very odd.
As for her achievements, it's completely absurd to say her's are less than Nadal and Federer because the standard is 'higher'(Also I disagree with how your judging this). But let's take this line of argument, am I right to think you view Bolt's 100m gold medal more of a achievement than Jesse Owns gold in 1939 because the standard was higher in Bolt's race ?
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She's a great sportsman. I don't have anything against her. None of that drugs, racism stuff. And her being stronger and fitter is to her own credit. I'm just saying it doesn't appeal to me as much. Just a personal preference.
And no of course she doesn't compare to nadal and federer. It's crazy to suggest so. That's like claiming a women's footballer who wins their equivalent of the ballon dor 5 times in a row is comparable to Messi or maradona. Or that an unbeaten season for Ipswich in the championship somehow makes them comparable to arsenal's unbeaten season or great United teams. She plays at a lower standard. You can't put that on par with the greatest tennis players of all time.
I'm surprised people are complaining about women's tennis today. Azarenka v Serena was a brilliant match. One of the best of the tournament across either gender.
this. she faced some great players during her career. Sanchez Vicario, Graff, Seles, Pierce, Davenport, Venus, Hingis, Capriati, Henin, Klijsters, Mauresmo, Sharapova, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Azarenka, Wozniacki, Halep, Li Na, Kvitova, Radwanska... literally everyone. and she proved she's better than all of them.
Some of the points raised against Serena in this thread are pretty idiotic and genuinely make no sense. I think the best thing about Serena Williams is her mental strength, in a sport in which most people become tight and serve badly in pressure situations this woman tends to play her best in pressure situations. Even today there wasn't much between her and Vika in terms of power or quality of hitting but just that on the big points Serena raised her game. Despite being so successful she fights for every point and has always kept herself incredibly fit. I don't see any reason why her achievements should be considered any lesser than Roger or Rafa's.
Ok fair enough I think I was misreading what you were saying.
As for our disagreement(Although it might be a slightly miss understanding).
I'm not suggesting that Serena would win in a match against Nadal or Federer, I mean yes if she played Nadal or Federer she would most likely lose but that's got nothing to do tennis more to do the difference between Men and Women. I mean this is why we have categorises for sport and why a discussion like who is the greatest tennis ''player'' makes no sense.
Serena plays to the highest possible standard she can , therefore her achievements are exactly the same as Nadal or Federer(I think she has more slams than both)who play to their highest possible standard.
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I used to get annoyed by Serena, circa when she had the roid rage incident against the lineswoman a few years back. I'm a fan now. Hope she breaks the slam record.
Biggest reason I'm not a fan of her achievements is the physical advantage she has. It's like a weak bloke playing against the women. She swats their terrible serves away like they're flies.
The female I used to enjoy watching was Henin Harden. A pleasure to watch. That one handed backhand
That's quite frankly a ridiculous reason. There are a lot of players, including Azarenka today that hit with the same power as Serena. She is however, far more skillful, especially on serve and can hit with a lot of variety in contrast to a ballbasher like Keys for example. Serena doesn't just win because she is bigger and stronger, she wins because she is better, and that is generated through dedication and hard work.
To add to this, I see a lot of people complaining about a "weak era" and that is why Serena dominates. But what era is that exactly? She dominated when Clijsters and Henin were playing, dominates now, and has dominated everything in between... She has dominated for about 15 years. It's time to stop blaming the entire WTA for not being able to beat Serena, and time to praise her for being the best ever (with only Graf being in the discussion for that honor imp).
I think the gap between tennis and football quality for women is cataclysmic. Female footballers are amateurs while female tennis players are professionals. Of course, due to the limitations of power and speed female tennis players cannot compete with men, but their technique is far far closer to that of footballers.
It's an interesting discussion actually, but I think it boils down to money, as it frequently does in sports. Female tennis players are paid equal prize money, and still get significant endorsements (though not as high as men). This means a young girl who is talented at tennis could seek a future in the sport with realistic possibilities to create a sustainable career, and in fact amass a fortune if they are good enough. Female footballers in turn can consider themselves fortunate if they make enough money to survive (many have other jobs). Because of this, football and virtually every other sport is not enticing to women, and thusly, the potential talent pool is infinitely smaller then in tennis.
Completely agree with this. It was a really excellent match. Serena hit an un fathomable 46 winners to 12 unforced errors and Azarenka hit 20 winners to 11 unforced errors. It wasn't a match that was thrown away by one player, it was simply won by the better player. Though the Serena/Victoria rivalry is one sided statistically (much like Djokovic/Stan) the matches have been close for a while. If Azarenka continues to push on I can see her beating Serena sooner rather then later. Out of all the WTA I feel like Azarenka can be the consistently excellent player on all surfaces. Injuries derailed her but if she can steer clear of them then I would tip her to take over for a few years after Serena retires (will she ever retire).
there's no way the title situation would look like this in the 2000s
Completely disagree.
Ipswich who in my hypothetical scenario destroy the championship also play to the highest standard they can, but I'm afraid you can't draw comparisons to people who are doing it at the absolute highest level of the sport. Well I can't at least. You might say that for her it's as big an achievement, but I can't value achievements done at a lower level as much. Otherwise I'd value school football as highly as I do the champions league. (Massive exaggerations disclaimer. Yes a disclaimer after the content
)The more grandslams statement is stilly. Women's tennis has had higher grandslam tallys for players anyway with three players on more slams than the guy who has the most in mens.
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already four counting Open Era only
Serena is simply brilliant; love watching her play. It's amazing to see the focus and determination on her face during matches. In addition, always comes across as very humble and polite, which is an admirable quality for a top sportsperson.
Used to be a Venus fan and always rooted against Serena in the earlier days, but it was never in doubt how much better and more focused Serena was from her.
Used to be a Venus fan and always rooted against Serena in the earlier days, but it was never in doubt how much better and more focused Serena was from her.
Completely disagree.
Ipswich who in my hypothetical scenario destroy the championship also play to the highest standard they can, but I'm afraid you can't draw comparisons to people who are doing it at the absolute highest level of the sport. Well I can't at least. You might say that for her it's as big an achievement, but I can't value achievements done at a lower level as much. Otherwise I'd value school football as highly as I do the champions league. (Massif exaggerations disclaimer. Yes a disclaimer after getting content
The more grandslams statement is stilly. Women's tennis has had higher grandslam tallys for players anyway with three players on more slams than the guy who has the most in mens.
Not it's not. Their highest standard would be as you mentioned going unbeaten for the whole season in the Premier League like Arsenal(Which is why Arsenal's achievement would be better). Your suggesting that women's tennis is a lower level than men's tennis because ???? I honestly don't know why your are.
But Ok let's break it down .
Genuine question here(Although it's pretty the same question I asked about Bolt and Jesse Owens).
The 2012 Olympic weightlifting results were
MENS- GOLD - Oleksiy TOROKHTIY - Heaviest lift - 227 kg
WOMENS- GOLD- Svetlana Podobedova - Heaviest lift - 161 kg
Do you view Svetlana Podobedova(Female) gold medal as less of an achievement(and also that women's standard is lower the men's) because she lifted less ?
Again we aren't talking about who can lift more weight, as that's clearly the man, we are just talking about ACHIEVEMENT.
Also if you do value them both the same, I have no fecking idea what we are arguing about.
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Sareena is one of the greats of the game. Her achievements are easily on par with Fed/Nadal if not better.
Ipswich don't gave the facilities, coaching, finances to compete at the level Arsenal, United etc. do so in a sense they are performing at their greatest level in that scenario and they have the same handicaps that you say women tennis players have (and hence play to a lower standard).
I don't know much about Olympic sport to be honest. Either way, I value achievements at the pinnacle of a sport the highest, which is why I'd value Zidane with France or Messi with Barcelona higher than whoever was the star of the recent women's World Cup. Maybe my take is not logical per say, given that most people here disagree but that's how I see it. Agree to disagree I guess.
don't know about that... for example, in 2002 she was as dominant as ever. withdrew from AO because of injury but won RG, Wimbledon and US open. in 2003 she won 2 slams before taking a year off because of injuries. it was discovered later that she was suffering from depression so she barely played during the 2004-2006 period. that's why she was out of top 100 for some time. if it wasn't for that, her dominance would most likely continue in those years.