We never had 2 midfielders holding when Fergie was in charge and always had fairly gung ho fullbacks.
It does really on flipping excellent centre-backs, though. Which might be an issue.
William Carvalho
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
- Status
We never had 2 midfielders holding when Fergie was in charge and always had fairly gung ho fullbacks.
It does really on flipping excellent centre-backs, though. Which might be an issue.
Awesome bit of cod science there, mockers. Although as an educated guess it would be harsh to sneer.
I don't think it's anything to do with some kind of muscular deficit. Just needs to get his brain back up to speed. He's basically a bit rusty. Which is to be expected in someone who's played so little football in recent years. He'll be grand in a slower paced game but at the highest level he'll look a wee bit off the pace as it's not coming to him instinctively. Anyone who's played any sport at any level can relate to that. When you haven't picked up a racket/kicked a ball/swung a golf club (I hate golf) in a year or two, you always feel a bit retarded in your first few competitive games. That's going to be even more exaggerated at an elite level.
Weirdly I just edited in an @ to you after I wrote that. It is complete guess work, admittedly.
So physically it should have NO effect? He should hypothetically be able to re-reach the same level of a normal 30 year old player?
Mata is the most creative player we have and we will not (and should not) bench a 37 million signing after seven months unless we can sell him for the same amount. Besides, maybe we haven't seen the best of him yet because he's playing in a broken team, but you could argue he's still been our best outfield player since signing.
Is he excellent defensively? Would love a midfielder who is a rock infront of the defence at this point. Not sure we should spend big on one though given I dont think thats the way forward.
He scores too many goals from central areas to drop him. We're a team that lacks goals. Getting rid of one of our goalscorers is just.... uh? It's not going to happen. Van Gaal will want to fit Mata, Rooney and RVP into the same side because he trusts those players.
I'm not a sports scientist, so probably not qualified to give a definitive answer. But I can't think of any good reason why he wouldn't. I guess taking a year or two out of the development of a younger player would have long-term consequences in terms of fulfilling their potential but he was already fairly fully formed as a footballer when he took his enforced sabbatical. Also worth noting that he doesn't seem to be one of those natural athletes, to whom everything comes easy. He's always looked like someone who's had to work bloody hard to get where he is. Which means he'll also have to work long and hard to get back to his best.
I just think it will take him a good few games to get used to the cut and thrust of PL football. 5 games? A dozen? Feck knows really but I wouldn't be too worried about him looking miles off the pace in his first two games back. Just a pity we're already so reliant on him when he's evidently under-cooked.
Don't get me wrong id love for is to sign Vidal and carvalho, or either one. I just think it's unfair to insinuate that fletcher is finished. He has just had his first preseason in a few seasons. He himself says that his illness is cured with the surgery, it's now a matter of games
I watched a lot of Carvalho last season after our links, and while I saw enough to encourage me, there were one or two key concerns for me that mean it could still go either way with him.
Basically, if he closed down and covered ground like say - James Macarthy, I'd be totally sold. However, he closes down more at the speed of Fellaini. That's my issue.
I really hope this picks up pace soon.
Exactly this. I'm not sure how he can recover from the illness still and whether he can recover to a level close to his best, because at the moment the signs are not that positive.
From what I've seen he reads the game well, however that concern is valid as he's not one of the explosive players in terms of pace and speed. He's a bit slow which is the major concern playing in a fast paced league as the Premier League.
That idea seems to have been debunked a bit by Pogue.
The only person convinced we'll play 4-3-3 is yourself.
Di Maria has said he'll play in the middle which is his best position. Considering the fee its very likely he will indeed play there.
I think we'll play the diamond, which is a system Van Gaal has used previously. It's also a system that follows the same logic of his 3-5-2 as it gets Mata, Rooney and Van Persie into their best positions. It would also get the best out of Di Maria.
This formation makes the most sense to me as well. It looks balanced and has all players playing in their natural position.
This whole transfer story is a bit weird though, come think of it.. If the club leaked it, why would they want to announce to the world that the price has been dropped to £24 m? And nothing is being reported in the Portugese media according to Sly. Compare it with Vidal who's linked to United pretty much daily by all the Italian papers.
How many players have missed those years he did, come back at 29.30 and gone on to be even as good as he was before, when a lot of his game relied on energy.
Aargh, thanks for the info mate. So if Sporting accept an fee - is that resumably only for his 60% rights or is it reasonable to assume Sporting would have contacted the agency already?
The diamond looks great on paper. It could work really well.
That could be an issue in the premier league given Fellaini tends to be two minutes too late.
Just a year and a half ago many were around the league were pegging Fellaini as and up and comer and one year here and he has become the standard for comparing with other under performing players. The Fellaini buy is a watershed moment in the crumbling of Utd, what a waste.
Just spent the last 5 minutes watching a slew of Carvalho vids and I'm not blown away tbh. Obviously you can't get things like positional discipline or consistency from them but he doesn't look like the next big thing. What do people who watch him alot think? I'm worried about just buying bodies. We've got bodies. We need actual, big quality.
Watch this one since 5 minutes doesn't do him justice.
Also Sly who watches him every week, says he is the best player to come out of their academy since Ronaldo and its a really big deal.
I'm not sure what his syndrome does exactly to his body on the long term and possible effect, surely he needs time to recover, but for me looks long time off the game. I'm making comparisons with other athletes suffering from mono that took them out for year or two and were never the same(wrong as it may be to compare the two conditions).
Yeah and another formation that I don't think has ever worked in the premier league. Ancelotti tried it and switched to 4-3-3 with Chelsea a few months later.
AC Milan are the only team in recent history, who perfected the diamond. And that was because they had four world class defenders at the time too. We need as much protection as possible to our defence even if it means dropping Mata or Rooney/RVP.
Liverpool used it for most of last season, Ancelotti and Fergie both toyed with it to some success and I'm sure some of the lesser clubs have utilised something similar. It isn't a completely alien concept, in fact it's probably been used with greater success than a back 3.
Mono's a bit of a mixed bag but there's a general theme of some sort of pain/weakness in muscles. That's why fibromyalgia is one of the terms used to describe chronic mono. Fibromy- meaning (skeletal) muscle and -algia meaning pain. Obviously this is a big problem in competitive sport and you never hear of anyone continuing to play sport when they're unwell.
UC has no effect on the muscles at all and there are loads of examples of people still competing at the highest level, even when they're symptomatic (which Fletcher isn't, apparently) Steve Redgrave won olympic gold medals after his diagnosis.
Wouldn't work with RVP, Rooney and Mata though. Just too slow of attack.
Liverpool tried various formations last season, all four of their attackers were interchanging well. Kind of like what we were doing in 06-09.
Last edited:
Which is why Van Persie, who offers absolutely nothing in his current state, should be dropped for Welbeck or even Wilson. Van Persie puts in less effort than anyone else, never presses the defenders and makes minimal contributions to build up play. With age he's becoming more and more of a penalty box striker, one who'd rather wait for others to do the dirty work and take the glory himself. He has always been, and continues to be, a great finisher, but the team isn't functioning and with his laziness/lack of fitness he's a passenger. He might not be match fit but he's been poor for a long time now, if he isn't match fit, we shouldn't play him.
He's a great player, and has everything to become better. If the likes of Matic or Fernando (this one to my surprise) don't look out of place in the Premiership, I sincerely doubt Carvalho will.
That's me convinced. Get it done, Woody.
If nothing else, it will be a rare treat to see someone who is physically imposing in central midfield (and by physically imposing, I don't mean flailing elbows)
If nothing else, it will be a rare treat to see someone who is physically imposing in central midfield (and by physically imposing, I don't mean flailing elbows)
I love his retro mou 
That video. 
basically everything we need in midfield.
basically everything we need in midfield.Opposition fans don't understand how much United fans need this. To go from picking one of Anderson, Fletcher, Fellaini or Cleverley to partner a declining Carrick to having the option of Carvalho, Di Maria and Herrera instead in just the space of two months is something that can only be described as .
.I believe we would be better of if we get a number 6 and another box to box midfielder. Blind versatility is a plus to have, but if you look at our number 8 in the team, we have Herrera, Cleverley, Fellaini, Anderson and Powell. Beside Herrera and perhaps Powell, those other players do not give me soo much confidence. Blind is a number 6 or a defender and we have better cover in those area. The list of players in the number 8 role does not give us quality in depth and when Herrera gets injuried or is out of form, we do not have a quality player to occupy this position. As such, I believe we will be better of with William Carvalho and a number 8 like Vidal or Mateo Kovaciç. Kovaciç would be more ideal, if we want to give a player like Herrera an opportunity to performance at United.
I believe we need another number 8 alongside Carvalho more so than we needed a utility man whose main role is in the number 6 position or in defense.
Forwarding that youtube video to aloysiuspaulusmariavangaal@manutd.com
This dude with either of Vidal and Strootman would be fantastic.
Sadly, we have none of the 3. But one can dream.
A midfield of Herrera, Vidal and Carvalho would be incredible. Pretty much able to go toe to toe with any midfield in Europe.
We'd have had one of Strootman or Vidal here if it wasn't for that damn injuries.
DIdn't Chelsea Win two titles and set a new defensive record for fewest conceded with a diamond in Mou's first run there?
They played a 4-3-3 with Duff and Robben on the wings.
- Status