Fernando has looked effective for City. He's bigger than I remember from watching Porto a few times. How does Carvalho compare to Fernando? Obviously having seen both far more than most on here, im interested in your opinion.
William Carvalho
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Fernando has looked effective for City. He's bigger than I remember from watching Porto a few times. How does Carvalho compare to Fernando? Obviously having seen both far more than most on here, im interested in your opinion.
Whatya on about man?
I said my "dream" 4-4-3 formation included Carvalho, Herrera & Vidal. No-one's on the bench apart from you
People were suggesting buying Strootman later as well.
Illaramendi is a young Spanish talent that got sucked in and even there's been talk of him being unhappy despite his poor performances. Maybe we can get some less hyped young English talent like that to be backup and then grow slowly but even he'll leave in 1 or 2 seasons if he is quite good.
Maybe we can manage both of them if we offload all our other CM's but then there's Carrick as well and i don't think he is finished completely yet.
Fernandinho started the season late being deep into the WC for Brazil. Fernando was bought to be backup for him but has done well so far so tough call now.
Similarly Jovetic and Dzeko have done well with Aguero out. Especially Jovetic.
Whatya on about man?
I said my "dream" 4-4-3 formation included Carvalho, Herrera & Vidal. No-one's on the bench apart from you
Ah fair enough. That could work pretty well too as a midfield combo though would have to drop one of RVP/Rooney/Mata and play one of Rooney/Mata wide.
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Well in the portuguese league they had similiar impact. Both players of the year. Carvalho is better as DM than Matic but Matic mostly played as CM at Benfica. Matic is obviously ahead at the moment because he´s playing at a higher level at Chelsea and has done well as you say. They had the same high level at the portuguese league, so perhaps Carvalho can have the same impact when he moves to England. But it´s all speculation now. Matic did prove himself at the Premier League already.
Agree
Carrick is 33. Should be a bit part player or go somewhere else. He shouldn't be a regular anymore.
Fernando has always been a physically strong player. Fernando is a better tackler, more experienced positioning and tactically wise. In defensive terms, he is better than Carvalho at the moment. For a manager that wants a pure DM in the defensive sense, Fernando is an excellent choice. Carvalho is a more technical player, more versatile (can play also as CB and CM), better passer and more of a goal threat (4 goals in 30 games where Fernando has 6 in 226 games).
So much of what we have done in this window has been about saving face. Saying not interested in kroos (oh please) after madrid come. Saying not interested in fabregas (course we were, he just wanted london the fool).
Constantly saying we were not interested in vidal even though everyone knew we were. Fine, you dont need to tell journos the truth, but its all been. About saving face.
So what now? Yes, it could be a bargaining tool to show juve we have other options, but that only really works if they are desperate to sell...which they are not.
Madrid are suddenly cash rich. They have got rid of a cm in ADM and now alonso. Thats two of their usual ‘3' gone. They add kroos, but khedira is in last year of contract and it looks like he isnt signing another. Im not sure vidal would suit what they now need in cm but im sure they have come sniffing.
I think this is the more likely scenario, either madrid have come sniffing and we know we cant compete or we know vidal is just too expensive and we have started to look at other options. Carvalho seems most sane option as we have been scouting him for over a year, it wont seem a panic buy, it will just look like we waited until the price was right.
Thus, yet again, saving face
Constantly saying we were not interested in vidal even though everyone knew we were. Fine, you dont need to tell journos the truth, but its all been. About saving face.
So what now? Yes, it could be a bargaining tool to show juve we have other options, but that only really works if they are desperate to sell...which they are not.
Madrid are suddenly cash rich. They have got rid of a cm in ADM and now alonso. Thats two of their usual ‘3' gone. They add kroos, but khedira is in last year of contract and it looks like he isnt signing another. Im not sure vidal would suit what they now need in cm but im sure they have come sniffing.
I think this is the more likely scenario, either madrid have come sniffing and we know we cant compete or we know vidal is just too expensive and we have started to look at other options. Carvalho seems most sane option as we have been scouting him for over a year, it wont seem a panic buy, it will just look like we waited until the price was right.
Thus, yet again, saving face
regardless name an quality of a player, what is a better fit to our squad.
- a defensive ball-winning mid with physical presence to cover 2 CM's
or
- a box-to-box player to play alongside herrera in CM/DM behind a playmaker?
- a defensive ball-winning mid with physical presence to cover 2 CM's
or
- a box-to-box player to play alongside herrera in CM/DM behind a playmaker?
We're going to have to try and fit in all of Herrera, Di Maria, Mata, Rooney and van Persie. That's a lot of players who do a lot more attacking than defending so I think the last midfielder has to be very defensive-minded.
The impression I get of Carvalho is that he has the capability to turn into a deep lying playmaker, would you agree? In the sense that he isn't simply there to clean up and pass the ball to the other technically gifted players; he can spot runs, he controls the ball well, and can dictate the play. How good would you say he is under pressure from the opponents? That's one thing our current squad (bar maybe Herrera) seem really poor with.
Maybe he just wanted to play for the best team in England and in the Champions League.
They still have Modric, Kroos, Illarramendi and Khedira for what will likely be two positions. Can't see them buying someone who would force Modric out of the starting XI.
Interesting. Im wondering if he sees him as the "No.6" in a 4-3-3 - essentially this becomes 3-4-3 with the ball because the full backs push up and the No.6 splits the centre backs.
Yep, essentially the Gerrard role at Liverpool currently.
The United of old would 10/10 go for Carvalho. It's an interesting problem. Having someone like Keane again would be great! but Carvalhos age is very good. There's no worries about a fee and we have a good relationship with Sporting. I'd hate us to give Juventus 50million after they nicked Pogba from us. Decisions decisions.
Yes, i would agree. You can see from the videos that he has the ability to do that. At the moment, he shows that he can handle the pressure from the opponents (when he started to get recognition here, the opposition managers began to try and limitate his game and positioning but he has dealt very well with this) but this is the portuguese league played at a slower pace. I don´t know how he would cope with the speed of the premier league but Matic and Fernando (early stages i know) have adapted well.
Why are we comparing keane to carvalho?? Do people not remember keane? If theres one player more like keane in the world at the moment its vidal, a box to box enforcer.
Keane didnt turn into a DM until late into his career, where ungortunately he wasnt very good!
Keane didnt turn into a DM until late into his career, where ungortunately he wasnt very good!
I´ve been always curious to see him at number 6. Carvalho has alot of potencial but last year (for the good of the team and our defensive stability) he was limitated tactically and positioning wise by our strict manager Leonardo Jardim. He showed good details as box to box or 6 when we played a more offensive stance when turning from a 4-5-1 to a 4-4-2 when chasing a result, mostly in the second halfs. He was able to hold his own alone.
If youre saying he has also featured at the back as well then it sounds like he would be comfortable as a No.6. Im in no doubt its the formation LVG wants to play.
Do you rate 24m pounds is a good price for Carvalho? I've not seen much of him at all tbh.
I think he as comparing Keane to Vidal.
Keane was more vocal and a leader. Carvalho isn´t that at the moment. Understandably so, since it was just his first full campaign for Sporting. I can see Carvalho becoming more vocal and adapting a more leading role since he has good tactical understanding of the game with good positioning but he isn´t showing it yet. Both very strong players, with Keane being more aggressive and Carvalho more composed.
I have doubts over his mobility based on the admittedly little I've seen of him. He seems a slow turner and vulnerable to getting overrun.
Can you help put my fears to rest, Sly? How would you describe him as a midfielder?
Can you help put my fears to rest, Sly? How would you describe him as a midfielder?
Keane was more defensive compared to Vidal. Vidal is more attacking. (More a Gerrard or early Scholes type player in terms of role.)
Would be a good price if we had 100 of his rights. Since we only have 60% it will be a more complicated negotiation. Good news is that it´s a friendly fund to Sporting and it´s not Doyen.
It´s funny you mention that. That assessment that he is a slow turner and vulnerable to getting overrun comes from where mate? Because that happened very rarely on the portuguese league. I think that´s a prejudice because he is so big and tall. Look, so you can see his impact, Sporting midfield was basically the weak link before he entered the team. Was the worst sector of the team. We were constantly outmuscled and out paced. When William entered the team, it became basically our best sector. Our dynamic duo of Carvalho and Adrien combines very well. Of course there are quicker players but his positioning, tackling ability and physical strenght means that he can obviously hold his own. Good thing about Carvalho is his response against strong midfields. His performances against Porto and Benfica were always very positive.
This is reassuring.
I've basically only watched him closely at the World Cup, in his limited game time there and on one or two occasions in a Sporting jersey so I'm aware I'm not qualified to judge. Just a first impression.
He didn´t have a positive World cup campaign but who did? Our team was in complete turmoil, our preparation wasn´t adequate (most players were subpar in physical terms) and Paulo Bento´s tactical setup was complete chaos. It´s not a surprised that there has been a complete revolution in the medical and physical preparation department of our FA after that atrocious World Cup campaign. The real test for Carvalho will be the Champions League in my opinion. Settled in the team, knows his instructions well and fresh physically because it´s the start of the season. There can be no excuses here, if he is to realize his potencial and become a very good player. These are the places and the right circunstancies to shine.
I'm probably wrong but from the very little, that i've seen about him, he seems heavy in his 3 or 4 first steps and then he shows real pace and power.
Selling Carrick would be unwise. TC23 isn't all that you know...
Its as if people forget we still have Cleverly, Fletch, Anderson, and Fellaini. Carrick is the last on the list to leave out of all those, even at 33.
I didn't say that.
He asked where would Carrick fit in if we sign both. If Carrick doesn't want to be a bit part player then he should leave. We shouldn't be sentimental to another 33 year old.
Yes because every 33 year old wants to play every week. He isn't the one to make noises about wanting a new contract or leaving to get more playing time. He would be a good backup even if we got both Carvalho and Vidal and I don't think he would have a problem with that since he has said earlier he wants to finish his career here.
'bit part player', he would be second choice, a rotation player. Also, the manager should convince Carrick to stay because otherwise we will be left with Fletcher as the number 2.
I´d agree with that.
Is it really hard to understand?
I said we should sign both Vidal and Carvalho. So our midfield option consist of Vidal, Carvalho, Herrera and Carrick. Then go in for someone like Strootman next season.
We should get rid of the rest of the CMs. He asked where would Carrick fit into all of this if we sign both. Well Carrick would be on the bench wouldn't he? Unless he doesn't like sitting on the bench.
It is hard to understand why you think Carrick and Vidal perform the same role.
Carrick is to be compared with Carvalho only in terms of what he will offer Louis van Gaal. We need two of those types of players and also in the previous post you said he will be a bit part player and I merely pointed out being a rotation option is not the same as bit part player. At 33 years of age that is how he will prolong his career.
Carrick is 33/34. I think we need to stop worrying about where he will play, he will be moved on in 2 seasons or so.
That's an absolutely insane number of top class CM's, considering we also have Mata and Di Maria who is better as a midfielder than a winger. We just broke the British transfer record signing the latter so it surely makes sense to use him in his best position as part of a midfield three.
Vidal, Strootman, Herrera, Carvalho, Di Maria, Mata is far too much. It's also not a good use of the enormous amount of money it would cost IMO.
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