If a manager told Xabi Alonso to play short simple passes for 2 games, and he didn't play a long ball, would that make him a bad long passer?
William Carvalho
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If the manager thinks you have the quality to do it then he will let you. Someone said before the world cup match, in a friendly match, Carvalho made one long pass to Ronaldo though I heard it was an unsuccessfully pass. I guess, the manager doesn't mind about it.
If only things were that linear. What if he had instructions from Paulo Bento to keep it short and let Moutinho take the brunt of the passing? What if Paulo Bento gave him instructions to just focus on defensive duty? What if the game didn´t provide the right circunstancies for that? What about you ( i know you will find it hard) just believe that he has done it plenty of times during the games in the last Sporting season. You could give some credit to my opinion (and of many others) of my judgement over 30 games over one and a half World cup game. Either way i don´t care, this conversation is leading to nowhere since you have already made your assessment over one and a half games. He can´t do long passes regularly because you didn´t watch a long pass in his World cup campaign.
Leonardo Jardim (our previous manager now at Mónaco) who is a vastly superior manager gave Carvalho freedom to execute that kind of passing. Again you are coming up with assumptions over one and a half game and speculating what Paulo Bento may have instructed him.
Why do you knock Sly for apparently "posting the same thing over and over" yet procceed to post the same thing over and over? It takes 2 to argue, if you're not gonna listen to what somebody's telling you then there's no point debating over a player when you come with the same response time after time. When you're basing your opinion of a player on one and a half games you should expect to be called out on it.
From what I've seen passing is one of his best attributes. And I think he's just the type of player we need.
The way I see it, if LVG wants him, we'll pay the clause and get him, or something very close to it. We won't get him for less than £30m, imo.
The way I see it, if LVG wants him, we'll pay the clause and get him, or something very close to it. We won't get him for less than £30m, imo.
Bento doesn't seem care about it as long as you have the quality. Clearly people said Carvalho tried that long pass to Ronalod once in friendly match
If he is repeating them, then my replies will always be the same.
So one (completely hearsay-based) missed pass means that someone isn't a good passer. Shit, better tell Xavi, Scholes and Pirlo, they've all missed thousands of passes.
So he failed ONE long pass in a friendly game where he had the highest passing percentage and that means he can´t do a long pass? Ok i´m done with this. You have the right to your opinion as you have said and i have already gave mine after watching him play for my team over one season. Cheers for the convo mate.Unfortunately I wasn't happy with his defensive duty against USA especially that 2nd goal.
So that's my opinion, I already told you "by judging in 2 matches world cup". If you are not trying to convince me then we should already end this conversation. Because I'm still stick with my own words until he gives me more proof. Our conversation is just like clockwise right now.
I don't remember I said he can't do long pass. Every midfield can do long passes. It's just that how consistent he delivers them. Again How many times do I need to say this
I don't remember I said he can't do long pass. Every midfield can do long passes. It's just that how consistent he delivers them. Again How many times do I need to say this
And how many times did i say that he does that consistently in the portuguese league? How many times do i have to say this
Oh that´s right it was just over one league campaign and unfortunately he didn´t do it over 45 mins in the USA game and 90 mins against Ghana.JSMHE stop talking shite. You're arguing semantics over what you posted now in a rather pathetic effort to get the last word in. You have stated that he can't complete long passes consistently, inasmuch saying he can't do them.
And how many times do i have to say that he does that consistently in the portuguese league? How many times do i have to say this
Oh well I'm done with you then. You are just making this clockwise.
Fair enough. But that's only my opinion. Some people say he can do it consistently in every game and he has his own point. Some people including me said he can't do it consistently and we have our own point. He said he's not trying to convince me. So I have the right thing to say if he can't do consistently. I understand if he's trying to convince me. But if he's not trying to convince me then surely he should be okay if I stick with my own opinion.
Note that your opinion appears to be based on a very limited sample whereas Sly's appears to based on an entire season of watching the player. While your obstinance has forced Sly into divulging a lot of interesting information in this thread it is now becoming a bit tedious. Let's try and move on.
I'm not going to pretend I've seen a lot of him because I haven't but in his first game at the world cup I thought he knocked the ball about well.
If Van Gaal thinks he's worth the price then I'm happy enough with us being interested in him.
If Van Gaal thinks he's worth the price then I'm happy enough with us being interested in him.
I already said this in my post. In case if you haven't read them. But in my opinion to be consistent in long pass. It doesn't take you more than 3 matches just to make a successfuly long pass. Fair enough if he has the point if the manager giving him different instruction. But I also got my point that if the manager will always let you if you have the quality. He has his own point. And I have my own point. I agree the thread is crazy now. We could have end the conversation long ago. Let's hopefully this is the end.
Since Kroos is all but bound for Madrid, I would rather try and spend a little more on the pursuit of Vidal than 37m for an unproven youngster in a poor league. I like his attributes but it's quite a gamble at that price.
If we're really pursuing de Vries or Vermaelen for around £8-12m then feck it, pay the release clause and get the thing done for this kid. The team's average age would plummet to low 20's, a set up LVG would adore.
I would put a bid in for macherano, someone who can break up the play, play it simple. He is the master of the anchor man role, why not Mascherano? Many say we got the energy in the likes of herrera and mata, someone like mascherano with his experience and know how, he would be perfect for playing that discipline role
Ex-Liverpool.
Signed a new 4 year contract a few weeks ago.
JSMHE, the idea that anyone can evaluate any aspect of a player's game fairly in 2 games, especially for an international side, and reach any definite conclusions is ridiculous.
The first two times I watched Jaap Stam for Holland after United had signed him for a world record fee for a defender he looked distinctly unimpressive and nothing like the player the media and Fergie was heralding him as but I did not think due to those two games I knew anything substantial about him. In fact, I can honestly say that other than his fantastic performance against Brazil in 98 World Cup semi final, the first 10-15 times I saw Jaap play, he looked mixed in most of those games with some particular bad displays in that run(such as the Charity Shield, first home game of the season and away at Arsenal).
He developed into world class centre back and one of the best defenders I had ever seen at United and he was at the level after about half a season of first team football for United.
There's countless other examples.
There is a reason why most teams are very thorough in the scouting they undertake on transfer targets. It takes a long period of time to accurately evaluate a player.
The first two times I watched Jaap Stam for Holland after United had signed him for a world record fee for a defender he looked distinctly unimpressive and nothing like the player the media and Fergie was heralding him as but I did not think due to those two games I knew anything substantial about him. In fact, I can honestly say that other than his fantastic performance against Brazil in 98 World Cup semi final, the first 10-15 times I saw Jaap play, he looked mixed in most of those games with some particular bad displays in that run(such as the Charity Shield, first home game of the season and away at Arsenal).
He developed into world class centre back and one of the best defenders I had ever seen at United and he was at the level after about half a season of first team football for United.
There's countless other examples.
There is a reason why most teams are very thorough in the scouting they undertake on transfer targets. It takes a long period of time to accurately evaluate a player.
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We are not going to sign Carvalho and Vidal therefore no thank you.
From what i have read re LVG tactics here prefers a forward triangle in front of two cm's rather than a deep lying playmaker/destroyer.
Is he planning on converting him to play further forward because he seems to occupy the space LVG wants a CB to step into.
Is he planning on converting him to play further forward because he seems to occupy the space LVG wants a CB to step into.
Basically this
For me, Vidal is a lost cause. I reckon that was always going to be a non-starter. He is a Juventus legend and the 'self - proclaimed' best player in the world - in his position. Should he decide to leave Turin, I can only imagine that it would be for Spain.
With regard to Carvalho, how could we not want to go for him. Admittedly, my knowledge on the man was all but down to FM before our initial media link. Since then however, I've done as much research as humanly possible and watched as much of him as I can. Is he raw? I don't think so. He is a fantastic talent who is tailor made for a physical league. The great thing about him, is that he has so much more to give. Playing under LVG can only help him to realise the 'world - class' potential that has been attached to him. Is the reported £37M too much? In this modern age of monopoly money transfer, no! We'd be buying a powerhouse player with 10 years of prime ball ahead of him.
When I think of the alternative, imagine the agony of him lining up in blue and setting the PL alight. I'd rather not.
With regard to Carvalho, how could we not want to go for him. Admittedly, my knowledge on the man was all but down to FM before our initial media link. Since then however, I've done as much research as humanly possible and watched as much of him as I can. Is he raw? I don't think so. He is a fantastic talent who is tailor made for a physical league. The great thing about him, is that he has so much more to give. Playing under LVG can only help him to realise the 'world - class' potential that has been attached to him. Is the reported £37M too much? In this modern age of monopoly money transfer, no! We'd be buying a powerhouse player with 10 years of prime ball ahead of him.
When I think of the alternative, imagine the agony of him lining up in blue and setting the PL alight. I'd rather not.
I understand what you mean if I can't judge someone on 2 matches. But I'm judging on how consistent he delivers that long passes. Which I think he's inconsistent since he never made a single long pass during world cup. I never doubt his quality on the ball because I already said he is very good at the ball and aerial duel. Hardly to lose the ball.
Well, there is no proof if he does that consistently in Portugese league. Surely you won't just trust people straight away until you really watch it. That's why I watched his matches during World Cup and if he's really that consistent in long passes then he should at least make one. His playing style in term of passing seems to me just a safe passes. Players like Scholes, Alonso, Pirlo are typical of players of who does consistency long ball. Never mind about those great players, I've watch Ki from Sunderland/Swansea South Korea does that in games as well.
This as well. We probably done for midfield transfer this summer. Unless if we sell 2 our midfield (not include Anderson). I also can see LVG is trying to give chances for the youth.
I am keeping my muppets dream alive till end of transfer window. I don't think we are done though, we need a center-back.
This would only make sense if the Vidal transfer was in any way realistic, which it isn't.
How do you know that Sparky & whatya mean "no thank you"? You dont want both??
I think you're basing that judgement on our previous records of being linked to every top-class CM & ended up with no-one. I totally dig that. I think you dont want to get your hopes up & get them shot down. Last summer was a friggin nightmare for us all. I cant remember being so deflated about a transfer window like last year. Right up to the last minute we all hoped we'd players sorted that hadnt been released to the press yet. It was soul-destroying & we all knew the season was gonna be shite - bar a miracle..
Personally speaking, CM is the key area we need to get sorted for the next number of years & also sort out the CB situation also. I think we need another 2 CM's in & those 2: Vidal & Carvalho fit the bill perfectly in my opinion. It shouldnt be a question of which one we should go for - its a question of, if we cant get them 2 - what other 2 can we get of similar traits.
How do you garner that assumption mate?
Its bizarre if the club think one CM is adequate to make the team successful - its friggin deluded to say the least. Thankfully, the club dont think the same way you do - otherwise we're gonna struggle to get 4th with the squad we have at the moment. Thats not what we're about is it?
We want to compete for all trophies - not just scrape 4th spot. We have one quality CM in Carrick (who was massively under-par last season, but will come good under Van Gaal i feel) & thats a disgrace for a club our size. Carrick would be great for Carvalho's development no doubt too. You need atleast 3/4 quality CM's in the squad if you have aspirations to win the biggest trophies like we do.
Vidal, Herrera, Carvalho & Carrick would completely revolutionise the clubs fortunes & thats what we should be aiming for in this summers window
If there is any chance of getting Vidal, then all efforts should be made to get a deal done. We shouldn't be pussy-footing around both Carvalho and Vidal. Go hard for Vidal and if you fail, then go for Carvalho. Vidal should be without a doubt the first option while Carvalho should be a fall-back option. Either way I imagine Woodward is acting in some meaningful fashion, so let's just play the waiting game.
he's a good player but £37m seems very expensive for him, does he really fill the role we need as well?
There's no reason why couldnt buy both. We've been rakin it in for feck knows how many years & CM has been completely neglected to put it politely. The club owe the fans to get that sorted once & for all & it would be sorted for many years to come too..
Top players are becoming more & more available this summer & this is the time to act. I've cant remember when i've seem a window like this one..
This is a more interesting story to be honest
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...wall-instead/story-21324945-detail/story.html
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