William Carvalho

[golden_blunder]

People bleating on about fees yet again, what's the point?

IF LVG wants him, then money is irrelevant. I know everyone wants Vidal etc but it's a pointless thing talking about their price if LVG hasn't actually targeted them

 

[RedorDead21]

People bleating on about fees yet again, what's the point?

IF LVG wants him, then money is irrelevant. I know everyone wants Vidal etc but it's a pointless thing talking about their price if LVG hasn't actually targeted them

Afew seasons ago our debt had green and yellow scarfs everywhere and now everyone wants 200m spent. Never listen to football fans they are full of it are they not.

 

[golden_blunder]

Afew seasons ago our debt had green and yellow scarfs everywhere and now everyone wants 200m spent. Never listen to football fans they are full of it are they not.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Dr Baltar]

People bleating on about fees yet again, what's the point?

IF LVG wants him, then money is irrelevant. I know everyone wants Vidal etc but it's a pointless thing talking about their price if LVG hasn't actually targeted them

I agree & I couldn't care less if we paid 35 million for a player that was "worth" half the amount as long as I could understand why the manager was doing it. I'm just not convinced Carvalho is worth pursuing let alone paying big money for.
As you said though - essentially it is van Gaal's decision & managers live & die by their choices. If he thinks he is worth it & he turns out to be a success i'll hold my hands up. Nobody cares how much is paid if the players turns out ok.

I just don't think he's good enough.

 

[Kag]

My gut tells me this guy would be a bit of a dud. I just don't think he looks all that impressive in the admittedly small amount I've seen of him. I'd prefer somebody that bit more refined and box to box.

 

[Kevin]

I'd prefer somebody that bit more refined and box to box.

Herrera.

For balance in midfield, assuming we two of the three positions will be filles up by Herrera and Mata, we have enough movement and delicate play.
Someone who sits deep, reads the game well, breaks up attacks with crucial interceptions and passes the ball out quickly... bit like the role Carrick did so well for us in his prime. Carvalho seems to fit that bill. No more need for another box to box type.

 

[Kag]

Herrera.

For balance in midfield, assuming we two of the three positions will be filles up by Herrera and Mata, we have enough movement and delicate play.
Someone who sits deep, reads the game well, breaks up attacks with crucial interceptions and passes the ball out quickly... bit like the role Carrick did so well for us in his prime. Carvalho seems to fit that bill. No more need for another box to box type.

Possibly. I do agree that we need some strength in there, I just worry about the quality of his passing.

 

[Santos J]

Possibly. I do agree that we need some strength in there, I just worry about the quality of his passing.

His passing is good though? & he's great on the ball.

 

[LonelyFire]

People bleating on about fees yet again, what's the point?

IF LVG wants him, then money is irrelevant. I know everyone wants Vidal etc but it's a pointless thing talking about their price if LVG hasn't actually targeted them

Correct. Its like listening to Lou Macari on MUTV....he talks absolute shite about the money it costs for players. Classic from him last night was Hummels was an immediate no because he would cost £50m. Someone promptly called up and accused him of talking nonsense about prices.

 

[Amadaeus]

By judging from his match in world cup, Carvalho passing is just nothing different with Fellaini. Short simple pass and sideway and rarely to make a great long ball. Martinez is way more class and he is worth of the money.
At the moment for his current level, in my opinion Carvalho = Mikel with more physical strength.

You really have not seen Carvalho play. I do not understand how you are allowed to voice an opinion on a player you have only seen play at the World cup.

Fellaini only make this pass in his dreams

 

[Clas Sified]

Possibly. I do agree that we need some strength in there, I just worry about the quality of his passing.

His passing isn't Iniesta level, but it is still excellent for a player of his age. He has the potential and it looks like the mentality to achieve that potential.

 

[JSMHE]

You really have not seen Carvalho play. I do not understand how you are allowed to voice an opinion on a player you have only seen play at the World cup.

Fellaini only make this pass in his dreams

I rather judge him in World Cup than judge him in Portugese League. World Cup is a way better competition.
Sorry mate, you can laugh but you might need go through my post again. Did I say he never does a long ball? What's the point having low ratio in a long ball like 2:100. 2 long ball with 100 short and sideway passes. You are probably the one who never watch Fellaini, Fellaini does a long ball as well. But he's rarely does that during the game. Give me just 10 successful long ball from Carvalho in a gif. I would like to see that. If you think I'm wrong then surely 10 successfully long ball shouldn't be that hard right especially when he plays "more than 20 games" in "Portugese league". I bet Jonny Evans who didn't play that much beat Carvalho in number of long pass.

 

[Clas Sified]

By judging from his match in world cup, Carvalho passing is just nothing different with Fellaini. Short simple pass and sideway and rarely to make a great long ball. Martinez is way more class and he is worth of the money.
At the moment for his current level, in my opinion Carvalho = Mikel with more physical strength.

The only reason Carvalho is playing below par at the World Cup is because Bento played him in a restrained position. At Sporting where he has the freedom to roam a bit more, he is fantastic, trust me.

 

[Speak]

His passing isn't Iniesta level, but it is still excellent for a player of his age. He has the potential and it looks like the mentality to achieve that potential.

Verratti's is excellent; 21 year old Thiago's was excellent; Carvalho's is good. People are overdoing it about his passing.

 

[Clas Sified]

Verratti's is excellent. Carvalho's is good. People are overdoing it about his passing.

Carvalho knows how to judge his passes though, and can more often than not play them effectively. By this I mean when to long ball, short pass, through ball, all this by judging the receiver, defenders, stuff like that. And for a 22 year old to be able to pass like that, and he will get better as he approaches 25/26, that's something special. Perhaps not, as I said, Iniesta or even Gerrard special, but still great nevertheless.

 

[JSMHE]

The only reasons Carvalho is playing below par at the World Cup is because Bento played him in a restrained position. At Sporting where he has the freedom to roam a bit more, he is fantastic, trust me.

Yeah I would like to trust you. Just like I trust people from Sporting last time. And I said okay, he's great then I would like to see him what a 37 million can do in world cup. And after 2 world cup matches. I don't think he's worth 37 million at the moment. Most likely a 15 million only. More than half of the price. Too risky to sign a player in that kind of current level especially he's not proven in competitive league yet. He needs to improve and prove himself if he wants to be worth that much money.

 

[Sly]

I rather judge him in World Cup than judge him in Portugese League. World Cup is a way better competition.
Sorry mate, you can laugh but you might need go through my post again. Did I say he never does a long ball? What's the point having low ratio in a long ball like 2:100. 2 long ball with 100 short and sideway passes. You are probably the one who never watch Fellaini, Fellaini does a long ball as well. But he's rarely does that during the game. Give me just 10 successful long ball from Carvalho in a gif. I would like to see that. If you think I'm wrong then surely 10 successfully long ball shouldn't be that hard right especially when he plays "more than 20 games" in "Portugese league". I bet Jonny Evans who didn't play that much beat Carvalho in number of long pass.

How many times have you watched him? Just because you don´t watch our league at all doesn´t mean he can´t do long passes. World cup is a better competition no doubt but that doesn´t mean that it´s harder. Considering the circunstancies you seriously going to tell me that it´s harder to play against the USA rather than teams with World class players like Porto and Benfica? What´s more important? Judging 30 games or 1 game and a half? What is exactly your point? He does long passes plenty of times. Passing isn´t a problem. And yes i know what i´m talking about since i watched all his games. And no he didn´t get beat by Jonny Evans in long passes. He has one of highest percentage of sucessful passing in our league. He played a full season in the portuguese league and will be crowned player of the year. Last year the player who won it was Matic. A player who is doing pretty well in the premier league. Some years ago it was Falcão, Di Maria, David Luiz...that´s a pretty good standart.

 

[Clas Sified]

Yeah I would like to trust you. Just like I trust people from Sporting last time. And I said okay, he's great then I would like to see him what a 37 million can do in world cup. And after 2 world cup matches. I don't think he's worth 37 million at the moment. Most likely a 15 million only. More than half of the price. Too risky to sign a player in that kind of current level especially he's not proven in competitive league yet. He needs to improve if he wants to be worth that much money

Really though, you can't blame a player if he doesn't perform if the manager tells him to play a completely different role from his normal role. Rooney, if he's told to play in midfield, the man bloody sulks all the time and tries to play long balls that barely work half the time! Carvalho just gets his head down and works hard.

Really, we can't judge a player from international tournaments. Average players can sometimes look world-class, while world-class players can look average. I mean Ronaldo had a decidedly average 2006 World Cup, and he was 21 back then, similar to Carvalho now. Carvalho has the potential to be a beast for years to come.

 

[Santos J]

The only reason Carvalho is playing below par at the World Cup is because Bento played him in a restrained position. At Sporting where he has the freedom to roam a bit more, he is fantastic, trust me.

Not really. We played with a rigid midfield under Jardim as we had a poor midfield the previous year. He doesn't roam about much, no different to how he was used against USA & Ghana, he just had a poor game in the last match. His role was no different.

 

[Clas Sified]

Not really. We played with a rigid midfield under Jardim as we had a poor midfield the previous year. He doesn't roam about much, no different to how he was used against USA & Ghana, he just had a poor game in the last match. His role was no different.

Bento pushed him back nearly all the way to be CB in the World Cup though. At Sporting, he's given te freedom to run around more to sort of be a link between defense and attack instead of having to stay behind guarding the defence all the time.

 

[Lu Tze]

As if JSMHE is judging Carvalho's passing on the basis of 2 games Mental.

 

[JSMHE]

How many times have you watched him? Just because you don´t watch our league at all doesn´t mean he can´t do long passes. World cup is a better competition no doubt but that doesn´t mean that it´s harder. Considering the circunstancies you seriously going to tell me that it´s harder to play against the USA rather than teams with World class players like Porto and Benfica? What´s more important? Judging 30 games or 1 game and a half? What is exactly your point? He does long passes plenty of times. Passing isn´t a problem. And yes i know what i´m talking about since i watched all his games. And no he didn´t get beat by Jonny Evans in long passes. He has one of highest percentage of sucessful passing in our league. He played a full season in the portuguese league and will be crowned player of the year. Last year the player who won it was Matic. A player who is doing pretty well in the premier league. Some years ago it was Falcão, Di Maria, David Luiz...that´s a pretty good standart.

Percentage of successful passing means nothing if the passes are short and side way simple passes.
Fair enough. Okay then show us if he's good in a long pass. Show us if he can do it consistency. Because you and your mates always misunderstood my post. I don't remember I said he can't or he never does that. Every midfield can do long pass. But how consistent he does that in every game. And how often it is successful. I never like judge players in 2 games only but when someone is worth of 37 million, I should be able to see if he's really that worth of money in only 2 games.

 

[Santos J]

Bento pushed him back nearly all the way to be CB in the World Cup though. At Sporting, he's given te freedom to run around more to sort of be a link between defense and attack instead of having to stay behind guarding the defence all the time.

Hardly, it's the same way we set up at Sporting, his main duty is to protect the defence and anything else is extra. He could've done that against Ghana if he played well he just never settled in the game.

 

[Sly]

Yeah I would like to trust you. Just like I trust people from Sporting last time. And I said okay, he's great then I would like to see him what a 37 million can do in world cup. And after 2 world cup matches. I don't think he's worth 37 million at the moment. Most likely a 15 million only. More than half of the price. Too risky to sign a player in that kind of current level especially he's not proven in competitive league yet. He needs to improve and prove himself if he wants to be worth that much money.

Trust people from Sporting? No one is trying to convince you of anything. I hope he doesn´t leave us. I want to see him play for us in the Champions League. I did a factual description of Carvalho´s caractheristics and how the season went. No one is trying to convince you if he´s worth 45 million euros. A player is worth what the clubs accept to offer. Hypothetically if United think he is worth 45, it´s their judgement. Would i pay that for him? Perhaps not. But in the long run, if he evolves well, a hefty fee may end up being a reasonable price (I.e Ronaldo to Madrid). The only players who can be deemed expensive are the one who don´t produce on the pitch.

About the competitive level argument. I don´t agree with that reasoning at all. Plenty of world class players have come from our league. Why is it that you have to prove yourself in a more competitive enviroment to prove anything? When a player is good (like Falcão, Rodriguez, Matic, Moutinho) you can play anywhere and against the best. Carvalho trajectory is very similiar to Matic. Why can´t he replicate his success? Just because he comes from the portuguese league? Does it matter? That kind of reasoning makes clubs like United miss on top talents. Wasn´t Feillaini premier league proven? Did it matter when he flopped last year? Where did Matic come from? Which one do you think is the best player?

You can take my words with a pinch of salt but Carvalho is the best talent to come from our academy since the Ronaldo days. Will he evolve and have a good internacional career? I don´t know and neither do you. Our academies track record speaks for it self. One of the best in Europe. Does it justify Carvalho price tag? No. Is he worth 45 million? I don´t know because i can´t predict the future. What i can say is that clauses are standart procedure at our club. Doesn´t mean the player is worth that (Ryan Gauld scottish kid who signed for us has a 60 million clause). If United wants to pay that value it´s up to the club. We have the right to sell him for the price we deem right and are in a good position negotiation wise because of the long term contract and champions league money.

 

[JSMHE]

As if JSMHE is judging Carvalho's passing on the basis of 2 games Mental.

I guess 37 million isn't worth of money as what I expected from someone who can't even be consistent enough in just term of passing. Oh by the way before world cup, I heard someone said he only made one long ball to Ronaldo in a friendly match which I think it was unsuccessfully long ball. I guess we might need more games until Carvalho does that.

 

[Lu Tze]

I guess 37 million isn't worth of money as what I expected from someone who can't even be consistent enough in just term of passing. Oh by the way before world cup, I heard someone said he only made one long ball to Ronaldo in a friendly match which I think it was unsuccessfully long ball. I guess we might need more games until Carvalho does that.

Amazing how you don't grasp that midfielders can sometimes be restricted by managerial instructions. Carvalho is a good long passer and displayed that skill regularly at Sporting. If he continues the incredible development he's shown in the last year he will progress into an excellent passer, short and long. He might not be worth £37m but given the quality of players who have emerged from Portugal and Sporting in the last 5/10 years he is as good a bet as any.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Trust people from Sporting? No one is trying to convince you of anything. I hope he doesn´t leave us. I want to see him play for us in the Champions League. I did a factual description of Carvalho´s caractheristics and how the season went. No one is trying to convince you if he´s worth 45 million euros. A player is worth what the clubs accept to offer. Hypothetically if United think he is worth 45, it´s their judgement. Would i pay that for him? Perhaps not. But in the long run, if he evolves well, a hefty fee may end up being a reasonable price (I.e Ronaldo to Madrid). The only players who can be deemed expensive are the one who don´t produce on the pitch.

About the competitive level argument. I don´t agree with that reasoning at all. Plenty of world class players have come from our league. Why is it that you have to prove yourself in a more competitive enviroment to prove anything? When a player is good (like Falcão, Rodriguez, Matic, Moutinho) you can play anywhere and against the best. Carvalho trajectory is very similiar to Matic. Why can´t he replicate his success? Just because he comes from the portuguese league? Does it matter? That kind of reasoning makes clubs like United miss on top talents. Wasn´t Feillaini premier league proven? Did it matter when he flopped last year? Where did Matic come from? Which one do you think is the best player?

You can take my words with a pinch of salt but Carvalho is the best talent to come from our academy since the Ronaldo days. Will he evolve and have a good internacional career? I don´t know and neither do you. Our academies track record speaks for it self. One of the best in Europe. Does it justify Carvalho price tag? No. Is he worth 45 million? I don´t know because i can´t predict the future. What i can say is that clauses are standart procedure at our club. Doesn´t mean the player is worth that (Ryan Gauld scottish kid who signed for us has a 60 million clause). If United wants to pay that value it´s up to the club. We have the right to sell him for the price we deem right and are in a good position negotiation wise because of the long term contract and champions league money.

Good on you guys with the release clauses. Portugese teams invest a lot in developing young players and deserve to be fairly compensated when they move on.

 

[Sly]

Percentage of successful passing means nothing if the passes are short and side way simple passes.
Fair enough. Okay then show us if he's good in a long pass. Show us if he can do it consistency. Because you and your mates always misunderstood my post. I don't remember I said he can't or he never does that. Every midfield can do long pass. But how consistent he does that in every game. And how often it is successful. I never like judge players in 2 games only but when someone is worth of 37 million, I should be able to see if he's really that worth of money in only 2 games.

It´s a matter of opinion and you can read the various scouting reports on the net about him. He has a good passing range. I keep repeating the same points over and over again. It´s not just short and sideways. I didn´t misunderstood your point, i disagreed with your views and perhaps i´m more qualified to talk about a player i saw (many times at the stadium) 40 times rather than someone who watched 1 and half games in the World cup playing in a disfunctional team with an incompetent manager. Not a single portuguese player had a good world cup. Ronaldo included. Does that mean he isn´t a world class player? I already said that the clauses are standart procedure at our club. Carvalho is worth what United, Chelsea or Real Madrid agree to pay. And that´s it. What´s the point of dissecting release clause values? Your last point is absolutely ridiculous. I´m not even going to speak about the special circunstancies of the world cup.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Regarding prices, a lot of people are perhaps a bit behind the times when it comes to valuations. Ronaldo's move to Real from United initiated a sea-change in what clubs were willing to pay but also what clubs were willing to ask.

 

[Sly]

Good on you guys with the release clauses. Portugese teams invest a lot in developing young players and deserve to be fairly compensated when they move on.

Exactly mate. Sporting spends a fair ammount of money every year in the Academy. Some kids sleep and eat everyday at the academy. Our market is too small and we obviously need transfer money to keep the "factory" going. Like Ajax does. I never said that Carvalho is worth 45 million. How could i say that when he has one season of portuguese league and no Champions League or Europa League experience. What i always said is that the kid is a top talent and comes from a very good season where he was player of the year in Portugal. The value will come from what Sporting accepts and what the other club is willing to spend. With 22 years of age, being a physical beast (with no serious injuries historial) and obvious potencial and talent, i think he will come cheap in the long run. We will be here to see how he evolves.

 

[JSMHE]

Trust people from Sporting? No one is trying to convince you of anything. I hope he doesn´t leave us. I want to see him play for us in the Champions League. I did a factual description of Carvalho´s caractheristics and how the season went. No one is trying to convince you if he´s worth 45 million euros. A player is worth what the clubs accept to offer. Hypothetically if United think he is worth 45, it´s their judgement. Would i pay that for him? Perhaps not. But in the long run, if he evolves well, a hefty fee may end up being a reasonable price (I.e Ronaldo to Madrid). The only players who can be deemed expensive are the one who don´t produce on the pitch.

If none is trying to convince me of anything.
Then I can have my own point if most Carvalho's passes are sideway and shot simple passes from his 2 games. It's not like I need to wait more than 3 games to see him making 1 successfully long ball.

About the competitive level argument. I don´t agree with that reasoning at all. Plenty of world class players have come from our league. Why is it that you have to prove yourself in a more competitive enviroment to prove anything? When a player is good (like Falcão, Rodriguez, Matic, Moutinho) you can play anywhere and against the best. Carvalho trajectory is very similiar to Matic. Why can´t he replicate his success? Just because he comes from the portuguese league? Does it matter? That kind of reasoning makes clubs like United miss on top talents. Wasn´t Feillaini premier league proven? Did it matter when he flopped last year? Where did Matic come from? Which one do you think is the best player?

I thought I already said "fair enough" and now you are just repeating yourself. Just like clockwise. Don't talk to me and end the topic if you are doing a clockwise conversation.

You can take my words with a pinch of salt but Carvalho is the best talent to come from our academy since the Ronaldo days. Will he evolve and have a good internacional career? I don´t know and neither do you. Our academies track record speaks for it self. One of the best in Europe. Does it justify Carvalho price tag? No. Is he worth 45 million? I don´t know because i can´t predict the future. What i can say is that clauses are standart procedure at our club. Doesn´t mean the player is worth that (Ryan Gauld scottish kid who signed for us has a 60 million clause). If United wants to pay that value it´s up to the club. We have the right to sell him for the price we deem right and are in a good position negotiation wise because of the long term contract and champions league money.

Once again. Sure fair enough that's your point. I respect it. But I never said he's not a talent player. I'm just saying he's not worth of that money with his current level. And risky to sign him. I got my own point, if you are not trying to convince me of anything then I can my have own point. I'm not against yours. You are the one who against mine.

 

[Blue always red]

If this guy hadn't been linked with us in the Moyes reign, more people on here would want him.

 

[Sly]

If none is trying to convince me of anything.
Then I can have my own point if most Carvalho's passes are sideway and shot simple passes from his 2 games. It's not like I need to wait more than 3 games to see him making 1 successfully long ball.

Yes you can have whatever opinion you want. Doesn´t mean you are right. I was not trying to convince you of anything. I was just giving my opinion of the player and his season in Portugal. I don´t really care if you agree or not. I´m not a scout or an agent trying to sell a player. I´m just here giving infos about a player United is supposedly interested in and interacting with United fans. If you read my posts in the thread, i always said that 45 million valuation is too high but you know how the inflated football markets of these days work and the nature of release clauses.

 

[JSMHE]

Amazing how you don't grasp that midfielders can sometimes be restricted by managerial instructions. Carvalho is a good long passer and displayed that skill regularly at Sporting. If he continues the incredible development he's shown in the last year he will progress into an excellent passer, short and long. He might not be worth £37m but given the quality of players who have emerged from Portugal and Sporting in the last 5/10 years he is as good a bet as any.

It surprise me how can people just don't understand or never read someone post carefully. They are just seeing the negative part, or they just never have any intention to read my post and instead just starting an argument.
While clearly in my post I said he's a great in aerial duel and great with the ball. And his passing are indeed most of them are safe passes, I'm very surprise how can someone can't accept this, if you are really good at long pass, then surely it doesn't take more than 2 games to make at least 1. I always think Carvalho is a quality player, I never deny his quality. I don't mind if we sign him. But I prefer to sign a better one with more worth of the price. Or at least a player who are already proven enough.

 

[JSMHE]

Yes you can have whatever opinion you want. Doesn´t mean you are right. I was not trying to convince you of anything. I was just giving my opinion of the player and his season in Portugal. I don´t really care if you agree or not. I´m not a scout or an agent trying to sell a player. I´m just here giving infos about a player United is supposedly interested in and interacting with United fans. If you read my posts in the thread, i always said that 45 million valuation is too high but you know how the inflated football markets of these days work and the nature of release clauses.

I don't know how many times you need to say it.

 

[Sly]

I don't know how many times you need to say it.

As many times it´s needed in this thread and i feel like it.

 

[Speak]

If this guy hadn't been linked with us in the Moyes reign, more people on here would want him.

It has very little to do with Moyes specifically, and more to with him being 'old news', there appearing to be other players available who weren't last year, and people who'd never watched him seeing him play a bit over the past few weeks.

 

[JSMHE]

As many times it´s needed in this thread and i feel like it.

Well, you might need to know, it's annoying when you are repeating the same words which I already read, while we could just end the argument.

 

[Sly]

Well, you might need to know, it's annoying when you are repeating the same words which I already read, while we could just end the argument.

I´m not arguing with you. I just disagree with your highly detailed considerations of Carvalho over one and half world cup games.

 

[JSMHE]

I´m not arguing with you. I just disagree with your highly detailed considerations of Carvalho over one and half world cup games.

Okay then my bad, what I mean is conversation not argument.
We could have end the conversation if you didn't repeating that sentence. I can't believe you are still continue this conversation.
A good long passer doesn't need more than 2 games to make at least 1 long pass.