Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

[Livvie]

It's good to see Ole put some confidence back in the lad. Unless you have no fear like Januzaj, Old Trafford seems to be a confidence killer to everyone at the moment.

Unless you're the opposition.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Looks like his decision making has improved a good bit from the video of his debut I watched (all his touches, might be posted in here somewhere). Still looks a bit wasteful but defo getting towards the level we would need him to be at.

One thing worth noting is that he would probably be a considerably better player for Cardiff than for us this season. Every time he looked dangerous in this last game it was on the break, where his pace can stretch teams. So far this season united seem to have conceded an early goal and had teams play very conservatively against them, sometimes putting 11 men behind the ball or just knocking the ball around midfield, not a situation where Zaha will thrive. Hopefully if we can start taking the lead in games again next season we will see more opportunities for Zaha to be effective

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Having Ole in the Prem looks like a mutually beneficial loan solution for us. Hopefully Powell will get more Prem exposure soon as well.

yeah I would have liked to have seen a switch for nick in january, a move to a prem club

 

[Drifter]

DAVID MOYES has insisted he made the right decision to send Wilfried Zaha out on loan to Cardiff given the competition for places out wide at Manchester United.

Moyes claims that much of the criticism that has been levelled at him over his handling of Zaha has come from those without a full understanding of the situation.

He said: "At times you have to believe what the manager is seeing as well.

"There is big competition for those wide areas.

"When I came in, I had Antonio Valencia, Nani and Ashley Young. Then we had the emergence of Adnan (Januzaj). Shinji (Kagawa) can play off one of the sides.

"I have seen Wilfried training every day as well. I am privy to that."

 

[Mainoldo]

DAVID MOYES has insisted he made the right decision to send Wilfried Zaha out on loan to Cardiff given the competition for places out wide at Manchester United.

Moyes claims that much of the criticism that has been levelled at him over his handling of Zaha has come from those without a full understanding of the situation.

He said: "At times you have to believe what the manager is seeing as well.

"There is big competition for those wide areas.

"When I came in, I had Antonio Valencia, Nani and Ashley Young. Then we had the emergence of Adnan (Januzaj). Shinji (Kagawa) can play off one of the sides.

"I have seen Wilfried training every day as well. I am privy to that."

Bull. He didnt know what to do with him.

 

[Ekeke]

So he sees him every day and picks Ashley Young. We're doomed.

 

[Shane88]

There is big competition for those wide areas.

That's a good one, Dave.

 

[Drifter]

What worries me is that he is still thinking of playing Kagawa on the wings.

 

[Rossa]

That's a good one, Dave.

In terms of quantity, he's quite right.

 

[Rossa]

What worries me is that he is still thinking of playing Kagawa on the wings.

I wouldn't mind playing him out wide as long as it's not as a winger, if you know what I mean. In a 4-3-3, he could easily play out wide if it meant he interchanges with a similar player like Mata. When Rooney plays as a 10, he drops deep, but rarely to the sides.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Fair enough if Moyes doesn't think Zaha is all that special but to only give him a few minutes is ludicrous.

Don't understand some of his squad management at all.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Fair enough if Moyes doesn't think Zaha is all that special but to only give him a few minutes is ludicrous.

Don't understand some of his squad management at all.

Neville spoke about it, said that for the first 6 months they wanted him to forget about playing and just get used to things. He probably would have given him some more minutes after christmas, but this way is a lot, lot better for his development

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

When Moyes first arrived there was on paper some competition for the wide positions, however as the season has progressed such a view doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. And considering what Moyes expects of his wingers Kagawa shouldn't even be in that sentence.

Those quotes reveal more about the state of Moyes' judgement in regard to Zaha than makign a solid defence for his decisions.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Erm... Hate to point out the bleeding obvious but Valencia or Young would start for Cardiff, every single game.

The loan will do Zaha a lot of good but let's see him nail down a place in their first XI before saying he should be starting for United.

 

[Nighteyes]

This is the one area where the Moyes criticism is entirely justified. There's no way Young and especially Valencia should have been starting ahead of him.

 

[Rednotdead]

Fair enough if Moyes doesn't think Zaha is all that special but to only give him a few minutes is ludicrous.

Don't understand some of his squad management at all.

We don't know what's gone on in training. What we do know is that Southgate was very unhappy with his attitude when with the England u/21s last Summer.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Neville spoke about it, said that for the first 6 months they wanted him to forget about playing and just get used to things. He probably would have given him some more minutes after christmas, but this way is a lot, lot better for his development

It's a bit odd still isn't it? I don't know what Zaha is like but 6 months seems a long time. Especially considering he's played on the pre season tour. I mean, the kids played in the play off final. He's played for England at Wembley.

Footballing wise his touch is a bit raw and he takes too many of them, but we got to the league cup semi. The sort of matches you always play people like him in.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Erm... Hate to point out the bleeding obvious but Valencia or Young would start for Cardiff, every single game.

That would depend on what Ole was looking to gain from starting/subbing on the player, neither of the above would have brought the same impact as Wilf did for Cardiff last week.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

Neville spoke about it, said that for the first 6 months they wanted him to forget about playing and just get used to things. He probably would have given him some more minutes after christmas, but this way is a lot, lot better for his development

After all the speculation and with what Moyes said today that it is quite obvious that Zaha does not train well enough for Moyes.

I do wish that Moyes himself and the club would stop justifying themselves to the press. It looks weak. I just wish that Moyes said today something like 'I didn't think that Wilf was ready for first team football at United yet so I sent him out on loan and that is that'.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

It's a bit odd still isn't it? I don't know what Zaha is like but 6 months seems a long time. Especially considering he's played on the pre season tour. I mean, the kids played in the play off final. He's played for England at Wembley.

Footballing wise his touch is a bit raw and he takes too many of them, but we got to the league cup semi. The sort of matches you always play people like him in.

Yeah I was mostly surprised he didn't feature in the Cup, but I suppose with the pressure Moyes is under this year in the league it's not that surprising he put out the first team in the cup more than Fergie did

 

[Crashoutcassius]

After all the speculation and with what Moyes said today that it is quite obvious that Zaha does not train well enough for Moyes.

I do wish that Moyes himself and the club would stop justifying themselves to the press. It looks weak. I just wish that Moyes said today something like 'I didn't think that Wilf was ready for first team football at United yet so I sent him out on loan and that is that'.

Think he's probably just fed up of people far less informed and talented than him and his staff saying that his selection decisions are 'obviously' wrong. I do agree that he shouldn't justify himself to the press, but I don't think he does it often

 

[Pogue Mahone]

After all the speculation and with what Moyes said today that it is quite obvious that Zaha does not train well enough for Moyes.

I do wish that Moyes himself and the club would stop justifying themselves to the press. It looks weak. I just wish that Moyes said today something like 'I didn't think that Wilf was ready for first team football at United yet so I sent him out on loan and that is that'.

I get a fairly strong impression that you (and a lot of people on here) would find a way to criticise moyes no matter what he says so, let's be honest, it's neither here nor there.

 

[Steven Seagull]

We don't know what's gone on in training. What we do know is that Southgate was very unhappy with his attitude when with the England u/21s last Summer.

When Pearce was in charge?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

We don't know what's gone on in training. What we do know is that Southgate was very unhappy with his attitude when with the England u/21s last Summer.

Gareth Southgate wasn't U-21s manager last summer

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When Pearce was in charge?

Well done. That completely contradicts his point.

 

[datura]

That would depend on what Ole was looking to gain from starting/subbing on the player, neither of the above would have brought the same impact as Wilf did for Cardiff last week.

You have no idea really. You're just guessing because you seem to have found a cause du jour in Zaha.

 

[Nighteyes]

We don't know what's gone on in training. What we do know is that Southgate was very unhappy with his attitude when with the England u/21s last Summer.

What we do know is that our first choice wingers have been terrible for well more than a year now and despite that Zaha hasn't even been given the chance to stake his claim. He was coming into the season on the back of helping his home town club to the premier league as well as a good pre-season under his belt and yet it took months for him to get his chance.

 

[datura]

What we do know is that our first choice wingers have been terrible for well more than a year now and despite that Zaha hasn't even been given the chance to stake his claim. He was coming into the season on the back of helping his home town club to the premier league as well as a good pre-season under his belt and yet it took months for him to get his chance.

Who are the first choice wingers? There's been a fair bit of rotation each game, especially on the left.

Why can't people just take Moyes' comments as they are and just look forward to Zaha getting games with Cardiff and then looking to challenge for a first team spot next season? There's no big conspiracy, or any nefarious dark deeds.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Blaming Moyes for the Zaha situation is stupidity. Infact he should be praised for finding him a suitable loan where he can play week in week out and do well. Especially if the loan helps him become a first teamer here.

Zaha would not have solved any problems had he been here. He is far too inexperienced to be a starting winger for us.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What we do know is that our first choice wingers have been terrible for well more than a year now and despite that Zaha hasn't even been given the chance to stake his claim. He was coming into the season on the back of helping his home town club to the premier league as well as a good pre-season under his belt and yet it took months for him to get his chance.

It's almost as though there's a gulf in quality between championship football, playing shit teams on tour and getting into the first XI of a team in the top half of the Premier League. Mental.

 

[Nighteyes]

Who are the first choice wingers? There's been a fair bit of rotation each game, especially on the left.

Why can't people just take Moyes' comments as they are and just look forward to Zaha getting games with Cardiff and then looking to challenge for a first team spot next season? There's no big conspiracy, or any nefarious dark deeds.

The players who have played wide are nani, Valencia, Young, Kagawa and Januzaj. Nani has been injured. Valencia and Young dreadful, Kagawa ineffective. I wish him all the best at Cardiff of course but I do think he should have gotten more chances.

It's almost as though there's a gulf in quality between championship football, playing shit teams on tour and getting into the first XI of a team in the top half of the Premier League. Mental.

What I am questioning is why he did not chances to show what he could do? Why keep on playing players who are contributing feck all?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

You have no idea really. You're just guessing because you seem to have found a cause du jour in Zaha.

I don't think that either party has handled the situation as well as would be expected, you appear to have determined my motives for me though.

Do you see Valencia providing such a through ball to Bellamy? Young though more effective is still erratic, and wouldn't carry the same...unpredictability as Zaha [assuming Wilf remains committed at Cardiff].

Of course i don't know what Ole is trying to achieve and never made a claim to that effect, simply that the three players bring with them different qualities at present.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

I get a fairly strong impression that you (and a lot of people on here) would find a way to criticise moyes no matter what he says so, let's be honest, it's neither here nor there.

All things considered, it is hard not to criticise Moyes if you are being honest. I read a lot of your posts and you seem to be trying to convince yourself of a reality that does not exist at this point. Wilf has played 60 mins for Cardiff and done pretty well. I might have a bit of a snipe at Moyes when Wilf does something good but how often do we see players hit the ground running at new clubs and then they fade. Moyes should just call a spade a spade and tell the press that it is early days and to be a Manchester United player he will have to prove himself capable of a high level over a period of time.

The club leaking stories to the press justifying the summer transfer window, writing cringeworthy letters to complaining fans; Moyes justifying his tactics and the loan of Wilf, it annoys me, it doesn't reflect a strong leadership when they are trying to justify everything that they get criticised for.

We sit 7th in the league and the club captain is jumping ship and you tell me that there is nothing to criticise Moyes for? Things are going tits up. Can he turn it round? There is nothing in his past or the present to suggest that he is an elite manager, lets just hope there is in his future because we are stuck with him.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

What I am questioning is why he did not chances to show what he could do? Why keep on playing players who are contributing fcuk all?

It's called having trust in your players, giving them a chance. Young is top ten all time premiership assists and Valencia was terrifying when at his best not that long ago. I think a far bigger mistake Moyes could have made is just drop Young and Valencia from the start and play Zaha, who was probably doing much worse in training, costing us about 200k a week to have Young and Valencia sit in the reserves without being given a chance.

If they don't continue to perform Moyes will replace them, as he has said. He'll probably replace them with Zaha if he is successful on loan

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What I am questioning is why he did not chances to show what he could do? Why keep on playing players who are contributing fcuk all?

Because he would have contributed even less?

Football's simple enough. Put the effort in at training. Hope to get games for the first team. Don't put the effort in, don't get picked.

There's been far too many references to him not putting the effort in for them all to be complete fiction. Hopefully this has him all fired up to make a go of it at Cardiff. He's started well but there's no evidence at all that he'd have done better for us than our other wingers have done so far this season. Yes, even taking advantage of the acres of space he got for cardiff last weekend.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He should have got more minutes this season with us, no doubt about that. But some people are going completely OTT about the situation and looking for reasons to abuse Moyes.

I personally felt that he would go on loan at the start of this season and I was surprised when he didn't. This loan could well be beneficial for all parties and, Zaha may well return to Old Trafford a better player with Premier League game-time under his belt.

Of course, it's plausible that Moyes has issues with him that he obviously won't make public.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't think that either party has handled the situation as well as would be expected, you appear to have determined my motives for me though.

Do you see Valencia providing such a through ball to Bellamy? Young though more effective is still erratic, and wouldn't carry the same...unpredictability as Zaha [assuming Wilf remains committed at Cardiff].

Of course i don't know what Ole is trying to achieve and never made a claim to that effect, simply that the three players bring with them different qualities at present.

Er, yes?

Played an even better through ball against Villa. With his left foot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

All things considered, it is hard not to criticise Moyes if you are being honest. I read a lot of your posts and you seem to be trying to convince yourself of a reality that does not exist at this point. Wilf has played 60 mins for Cardiff and done pretty well. I might have a bit of a snipe at Moyes when Wilf does something good but how often do we see players hit the ground running at new clubs and then they fade. Moyes should just call a spade a spade and tell the press that it is early days and to be a Manchester United player he will have to prove himself capable of a high level over a period of time.

The club leaking stories to the press justifying the summer transfer window, writing cringeworthy letters to complaining fans; Moyes justifying his tactics and the loan of Wilf, it annoys me, it doesn't reflect a strong leadership when they are trying to justify everything that they get criticised for.

We sit 7th in the league and the club captain is jumping ship and you tell me that there is nothing to criticise Moyes for? Things are going tits up. Can he turn it round? There is nothing in his past or the present to suggest that he is an elite manager, lets just hope there is in his future because we are stuck with him.

Not really getting into the bigger picture but it's tiresome the way every utterance from moyes is used as a reason to slag him off.

If he'd come out and said that wilf wasn't putting the effort in, or didn't look good enough for united at this point (or words to that effect) you can be 100% certain there would be people on here for belittling players in public and wilfully destroying Zaha's fragile confidence.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Zaha would not have solved any problems had he been here. He is far too inexperienced to be a starting winger for us.

Januzaj would not have featured at all this season if we held to such a viewpoint.

Nobody is suggesting that eh should have been a mandatory starter each and every week, however with the form of our wingers and injures you would have expected him to make a greater number of appearances. Whilst i imagine that the deteriorating personal relationship increasingly played a role here, it is also reasonable to suspect that Moyes didn't take to Zaha's style of football which is a pity.

 

[pocco]

This is the one area where the Moyes criticism is entirely justified. There's no way Young and especially Valencia should have been starting ahead of him.

Bollocks. We saw against Wigan, in all his cameos and for the u21s that he isn't ready. He's talented, but he needs to seriously learn to play the game properly and apply himself. We can't afford him that time here right now.