Is he Moyes' Pogba?
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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If he starts signing some top players my view on him might change but up till now he has done nothing to deserve anything else other than suspicion. Especially as he is the Glazers man, and also after him as good as saying we do not need to win trophies, all we need to do is sell shirts. So let us see what he does until the end of January.
Lots of nice flicks and tricks but absolutely feck all end product.
No chance.
As if the armchair managers weren't bad enough, now we have armchair CEOs on the Caf as well.How fecking hard do you think it is to persuade the Hong Kong Jockey club be an official partner of Manchester United? Talk about deluded..
Amount of times he's wasting Fabio's overlapping around 3rd minute mark is annoying as feck as well, add to that those medicore at best crosses and bam, I can't understand why people even try to compare him with Januzaj ( as in, if Januzaj is playing, why's Zaha not ) while he doesn't seem to have 1/10 of Januzaj's footballing brain at the moment.
I'd definitely loan him out though. It would have to be a PL side as well.
come on buddy. Give the man some credit.He looked very raw and wasteful but at least he was giving defenders problems and drawing in 2/3 defenders. If you were to make a similar compilation of most of Young/Valencia/Kagawa's matches this season on the wings it'd have exactly the same end product. I don't see why he can't at least get a chance to show what he can do, 30 minutes in a PL match here and there.
I watched that video last night. He played like he didn't have teammates
Its quite sad the way this is going.
You have to see it from both viewpoints. What we can't comment on is what goes on behind the scenes which would provide a more obvious answer to the various questions.
You have to see it from both viewpoints. What we can't comment on is what goes on behind the scenes which would provide a more obvious answer to the various questions.
Now i look at that video and see a wide player with the potential to beat defenders and force our opponents onto the back foot, he'll run towards goal and take responsibility upon himself [how many in the squad are willing to do that these days?] if given the support of the management.
If Moyes has turned his back on Zaha because his crossing needs work then he's a bloody idiot. Nani and Ronaldo both had a tendency to overdo the tricks when they were younger, the only way to reach the right balance is through experience which sadly Wilf has been deprived of at United thus far.
If Moyes has turned his back on Zaha because his crossing needs work then he's a bloody idiot. Nani and Ronaldo both had a tendency to overdo the tricks when they were younger, the only way to reach the right balance is through experience which sadly Wilf has been deprived of at United thus far.
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Precisely. If our wingers were doing well then his exclusion would have made sense. Right now he's no worse than Young or Valencia
Watched a bit of that video, he looked crap. Tried to play on his own, and in slow motion and done tricks that weren't needed constantly. No wonder he doesn't play. He looks like bebe with shit tricks instead of shit crossing. Actually his crossing looked shit too.
Obviously Moyes doesn't want to risk him and going by that video you can understand why. Been playing too much fifa street by the looks of things.
What risk?
What would you rather see? Valencia and Young serving the same tripe they've been serving up for well over a year or a young player getting game time to impress and more importantly improve his game. It's a no brainer
I don't think he was that bad from that video?. Sure he hangs onto the ball a little longer than he probably should, but he uses his body well and rarely actually loses the ball there.
Of course though the lad is very raw and need's to learn when to use his tricks effectively - a bit like Ronaldo used too over do things.
He will only get that with experience though.
Of course though the lad is very raw and need's to learn when to use his tricks effectively - a bit like Ronaldo used too over do things.
He will only get that with experience though.
I don't want to see Valencia or Young playing week in week out for us, but if Zaha played and was anything like that then I wouldn't want him near the first team either. He should be away on loan, getting experience and cutting out the crap.
Well it was hardly as bad as you're making out. We can afford to give him time because everyone else is shite and the more he plays the better he'll get. Picking Valencia and Young ahead of him must be depressing for Zaha and we've given plenty of game time to young frustrating wingers before
Well, there must be more to it than that. We have, Moyes is not willing to take that chance and why he's not offered him out on loan is a bit baffling considering he's not using him at all anyway.
I don't really think we need a player who doesn't pass but chooses to attempt to dribble through two or three players, losing the ball every time. He looked like a twelve year old trying to prove a point he didn't have the skill to prove.
I haven't seen the video, but having seen the match I think there's quite some exaggeration going on here.
Firstly, I would assume that Joyce gave Zaha free reigns to express himself. Yeah there were moments that you'd be thinking "pass the ball ffs", but considering it was an u21s match, I do think that he was just given the license to be Zaha.
For his first ten minutes, he was frustrating and a bit wasteful but for a good ten minutes after that he was absolutely electrifying. He was beating his man with his ease and showing what he is really capable of. He was also whipping in some nice crosses too.
There's definitely a player in there, and I hope that he finds the right balance of tricks and keeping it simple when he gets first team chances but feck me when he's on song he is really electrifying. Of course, doing it against an u21 player and doing it in the big league are 2 different players, but he's got some potential and has tricks for fun.
Firstly, I would assume that Joyce gave Zaha free reigns to express himself. Yeah there were moments that you'd be thinking "pass the ball ffs", but considering it was an u21s match, I do think that he was just given the license to be Zaha.
For his first ten minutes, he was frustrating and a bit wasteful but for a good ten minutes after that he was absolutely electrifying. He was beating his man with his ease and showing what he is really capable of. He was also whipping in some nice crosses too.
There's definitely a player in there, and I hope that he finds the right balance of tricks and keeping it simple when he gets first team chances but feck me when he's on song he is really electrifying. Of course, doing it against an u21 player and doing it in the big league are 2 different players, but he's got some potential and has tricks for fun.
Zaha did well and it's a bit redundant signing a kid playing in the championship only to keep him in the reserves. Anyone that's actually watched the player, knows he likes to take players on. That should be encouraged. The same would probably admit Valencia doesn't do it enough. He can play both sides though and when your against Valencia/young currently, I don't think being raw is that big a deal when you can excite the crowd and have a bit of imagination.
Ronaldo was raw when he started, he was also talented. Zaha is talented and wanting to show it should be encouraged. Turning him into a boring winger, just to say technically he did everything right would turn him into a boring player. It won't happen. He did pass to team mates, he took his man on and was unlucky not to score.
Ronaldo was raw when he started, he was also talented. Zaha is talented and wanting to show it should be encouraged. Turning him into a boring winger, just to say technically he did everything right would turn him into a boring player. It won't happen. He did pass to team mates, he took his man on and was unlucky not to score.
Yeah @Striker10 these lot are claiming that he was playing for himself. But bare in mind Joyce is a very vocal coach, he didn't tell Zaha to cut it out, i'm glad to see his expressive side to be encouraged.
There is something there, he's just uber raw. Why he's not gone on loan yet I do not know. Give em to Ole or Brucie for a few months and get some game time under his belt.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...yes-act-thats-starlet-BENCH-reserve-game.html
Explains the benching. Fair play to Moyes.
Explains the benching. Fair play to Moyes.
Zaha will never be on the same planet as Pogba. Just my opinion, I thought he was a dud when we bought him and I still still think the same.
So my hunch may be right and he's still pulling the same shit he did at Palace.
He's got bags of potential. If he really knuckles down and learns then he could be a top player for us. It's just going to take time and patience with Zaha as he seems immature as a player.
And not just as a player if the stories above are true.
Re: The Daily Mail article
If that had been going on regularly since he arrived at United we'd have heard about it long since, however it would appear that we've got a relationship that has been deteriorating for some time and matters are coming to a head. SAF should mediate if things persist otherwise both parties will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Whilst Moyes should certainly confront any indiscipline on the part of Zaha there is also the need to regain his confidence and respect, banishment with little to no hope of playing for the first team won't achieve such an end.
What is disappointing is how we've potentially got the club briefing against one of its own players in the press, all rather unsavoury.
What was he up to at Palace exactly, do you have any links or is this all hearsay/hunches on your part?
If that had been going on regularly since he arrived at United we'd have heard about it long since, however it would appear that we've got a relationship that has been deteriorating for some time and matters are coming to a head. SAF should mediate if things persist otherwise both parties will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Whilst Moyes should certainly confront any indiscipline on the part of Zaha there is also the need to regain his confidence and respect, banishment with little to no hope of playing for the first team won't achieve such an end.
What is disappointing is how we've potentially got the club briefing against one of its own players in the press, all rather unsavoury.
What was he up to at Palace exactly, do you have any links or is this all hearsay/hunches on your part?
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"My mates brother went to that "An audience with Phil Neville" thing a bit back that was at the Bishops Blaize. He was asked about Zaha and said something along the lines of that he was given special treatment at Palace. That he would often be late for training and then not train particularly well. He said that when he first came to the club he was giving his all but that it didn't take long for him to fall back into old habits.
He didn't say that was the reason for his lack of action, but reading between the lines you'd have to say it's likely to be connected.
Would also explain why he's linked with a loan to several different clubs, but not Palace."
Don't know about the lateness but I've been told he's a poor trainer to the extent you wouldn't know he had talent at all from watching him train.
Someone I know picked Abdul Razak over him because he just looked so poor.
If he isn't performing in training he can't be picked for the 1st team, but he needs game time.
Wish both parties could sort this out because he clearly has talent. Would like to see him tried out considering Valencia is ass.
Someone I know picked Abdul Razak over him because he just looked so poor.
If he isn't performing in training he can't be picked for the 1st team, but he needs game time.
Wish both parties could sort this out because he clearly has talent. Would like to see him tried out considering Valencia is ass.
In all seriousness, could maybe he just be a bit of a dud?
Something didn't sit well with a few people on here when all the rumours of him leaving were flying about. Palace (and specifically Holloway) seemed to be touting him around almost every week, bigging him up saying things like he was the best player he'd ever worked with. They seemed desperate to attract bids while the hype was in full flow (around the time he got his England call up iirc). Maybe they knew that was gonna be there best chance of getting good money for him?
Something didn't sit well with a few people on here when all the rumours of him leaving were flying about. Palace (and specifically Holloway) seemed to be touting him around almost every week, bigging him up saying things like he was the best player he'd ever worked with. They seemed desperate to attract bids while the hype was in full flow (around the time he got his England call up iirc). Maybe they knew that was gonna be there best chance of getting good money for him?
It is a mystery as to why he doesnt get more of run, I dont think it is a bad idea to give him some time on the pitch in the next few games. My view is when and how will he pick up any experience, if he is as talented as people say then lets see him express that out on the pitch. As it stands now he is being wasted and i would support his desire to play and if that means going out on loan then so be it. We've seen it happen to Wellbeck, Powell, Cleverely who have gone on loan and excelled.
I say give him a chance to show what he is capable of.
I say give him a chance to show what he is capable of.
If the Palace stuff is out in the open i can understand why he might feel prepared to mention it, however for him to refer to ongoing and presumably private events in training at United, well that could be suggestive of a serious stalemate between player and club even then.
Its a mess, one which seemingly has the two sides rather entrenched so far as his immediate prospects at United go.
Easier said than done. Here's Mike Clegg talking about Ronaldo:
"He had in his mind, 'I need to make myself special and I'm going to have to learn everything I need to become special. I'm going to have to regiment my day and my week, months and years and become as good as I can be by every possible means.' He had a plan."
....
Clegg said: "For every mistake he made in a game, he'd spend hours and hours and hours practising to make sure it didn't happen again. Generally with players, if they try something and it doesn't work, they don't try it again, they fear it - but he didn't. No chance.
And a comparison with two other very good players:
"I look at the other players who come and go with talent. Nani and Anderson both came in during 2007 at a similar age to Ronaldo, but the difference was astronomical. The difference was the understanding and the knowledge of how to become the best. Ronaldo was above everyone else."
The rest of the article's at:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25719657
But this is the Zaha thread and the crunch is that we didn't put Ronaldo on a regime, he demanded one because he thought it would help him improve. We can provide the people and the facilities but the player is the one who takes that step.
In the article Clegg describes Giggs, Keane, Scholes as "the gym club" - key men on the field who were also showing what it takes to be key men. Maybe Zaha hasn't been inspired by the atmosphere, his teammates, his coaches - in which case that's tough for any young player or maybe he just doesn't have that desire in him.
However the very fact that he wants/needs a loan now might mean he needs to find that inspiration outside the club for a while. After all a lot of United fans aren't feeling very inspired right now, maybe it feels the same for a young player coming in. A loan's certainly worth a try, after all the thing he likes is probably playing football.
Otherwise we wait for him to shape up in training and the bad attitude thing will almost certainly becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
@ jojojo
I worry that a lot of young English players are just happy to a Premier League footballer. They have the money, the prestige, the girls chasing them and that seems to be enough for many of them to think that they have made it. I think that is partly what is so appealing about Januzaj, he seems so grounded, the opposite of flash and his stated aim is to be 'the best player in the world'. I also think that the professionalism that we see in Spanish players puts a fair few of our younger players to shame.
If Zaha does have a poor work ethic then bringing him in is the fault of the scouts who recommended him as they are supposed to find out about temperament before making recommendations. I didn't fancy Zaha from our first interest. I just didn't rate the player at all. I now think that he is a talented player but he is the definition of raw, it is going to take a lot of dedication on his part to reach his potential which is why I think these reports are a little worrying.
I worry that a lot of young English players are just happy to a Premier League footballer. They have the money, the prestige, the girls chasing them and that seems to be enough for many of them to think that they have made it. I think that is partly what is so appealing about Januzaj, he seems so grounded, the opposite of flash and his stated aim is to be 'the best player in the world'. I also think that the professionalism that we see in Spanish players puts a fair few of our younger players to shame.
If Zaha does have a poor work ethic then bringing him in is the fault of the scouts who recommended him as they are supposed to find out about temperament before making recommendations. I didn't fancy Zaha from our first interest. I just didn't rate the player at all. I now think that he is a talented player but he is the definition of raw, it is going to take a lot of dedication on his part to reach his potential which is why I think these reports are a little worrying.
I certainly think that's true and it's one of the areas where I think English clubs can learn a lot from Spanish ones. It's not that the players don't get the girls, the flash cars and the money - though admittedly most of them don't get as much money as their English equivalents. But by the time they get it, most of them have been through years of playing in club structures where self-discipline is a pre-requisite.
Even Real Madrid, widely derided for not being able to bring young players through into the first team know how to train them. There are currently more than 130 Madrid trained players in the European pro leagues - partly on the back of that professionalism. I don't have figures for Barcelona but even Pique coming to United found the eating/drinking habits etc of his teammates rather casual.
So maybe Zaha hasn't been served too well by his professional training so far. Maybe he'll need coaxing as well as coaching if he's ever going to be more than raw. I know in the past SAF has said that it's better for some young players to stay in United, where they can be monitored and guided more closely, rather than going out on loan
But I just don't see that's right for a 21 year old who needs games to be sitting in the stand, especially not when morale in the squad is probably rather low. Like I say, I doubt he's feeling inspired by the examples of older, better players and unlike Januzaj he seems to be losing whatever enthusiasm he had.
Maybe they did warn SAF but he decided that Zaha was worth the risk. I'm just saying that's impossible to know for sure.
I agree. I think that Moyes is covering his own back with the injuries that we have but he could stick Cleverley or Rooney out on the right no problem. Fergie used to play every man and his dog there! I think that if we sign Mata then Zaha will be allowed to go out on loan though.
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