The players Moyes mentioned have been injured for a while and Zaha still hasn't gotten a look.
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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I've just been listening to the Sunday Supplement and apparently there has been some briefing of the Daily Mail about the Zaha situation. Moyes doesn't believe that Wilf has adapted to the demands of being a player at a big club or at least that is the word.
You know i wonder if Steve Round's job is to carry a collection of stones on his person at all times, that way when Dave feels the urge he can walk into the new glasshouse at Carrington and just lob a few no problem.
Moyes may have assumed the prerogatives of Manchester United manager but he still has to earn the full respect and belief of the players, particularly considering his managerial background.
You know i wonder if Steve Round's job is to carry a collection of stones on his person at all times, that way when Dave feels the urge he can walk into the new glasshouse at Carrington and just lob a few no problem.
Moyes may have assumed the prerogatives of Manchester United manager but he still has to earn the full respect and belief of the players, particularly considering his managerial background.
If he feels Zaha hasn't made the step up then he's absolutely right to not give him any first team opportunities. That's his job. From what I've seen of him in the Premier Leagur, he has looked lost.
I don't believe that Moyes has adapted to the demands of being a manager at Manchester United. It would be a lot easier for Zaha to bed in and everything if he got games against lower opposition, got subbed on when we were comfortable in games, or played in the capital one cup. Instead he's had like 1 hour of play all season. He's hardly going to be adapting well when he goes from being championship player of the year last season, at the age of 20, leading Crystal Palace to promotion to being no more then a reserve player now.
Here it is:
and this is based on?
I could be wrong, but I share Moyes' belief that Zaha isn't ready yet. I don't think we can make the comparisons with Januzaj either and think things will be similar. Januzaj is a rare talent and his technical ability in comparison with Zaha's would be like comparing Ibrahimovic to Andy Carroll. Zaha has a lot of potential and I do think he could become a good player for us, but he does need a lot of work because right now I see a Taraabt type player in him; exciting to watch and capable of magic moments, but inconsistent and potentially a liability. For a team that desperately needs results we can't really afford to have someone like that playing right now.
However I think he has every reason to be pissed off with his current situation. There are/were no shortage of teams willing to take him on loan and he's been denied loan moves when clearly there are no plans to use him unless a the earth swallows all 7 players who are ahead of him in the pecking order for a place out wide. Shitty for him and stupid of us for stunting the development of a player.
However I think he has every reason to be pissed off with his current situation. There are/were no shortage of teams willing to take him on loan and he's been denied loan moves when clearly there are no plans to use him unless a the earth swallows all 7 players who are ahead of him in the pecking order for a place out wide. Shitty for him and stupid of us for stunting the development of a player.
High pressure game with his team as underdogs and the lad rose to the occasion. Like Januzaj he was a player with no fear but rather bundles of self belief [Moyes has probably done much to degrade such], we could have unleashed on unsuspecting defences albeit gradually.
If the club bugger this one up there won't be the same extenuating circumstances as was the case with Morrison or Pogba.
Let us assume for the sake of argument that he struggled with the move to Manchester initially [although i don't recall such concerns during pre-season i must confess], has the manager made no progress after six months?What is the problem i wonder, running at the centre backs in training through the middle of the pitch?
the rumor that he likes to party too much. The rumor that his training habits aren't the best. That United are unwilling to entertain a loan from a London club. Wtf were Palace doing with him as a youngster?
There were no such rumours concerning Zaha whilst at Palace were there?
Usually Fergie investigates a player background and he would have known if that was the case.
Regardless of the rumors, how shit must he be that he can't even get a sub appearance? And if he is that bad, why was he purchased in the first place? Like someone mentioned, I fail to comprehend how he could have been any better than Valencia or Young at not being a useful winger.
yeah but these are rumors...should we really be giving them that much credence? It's all about suggestibility. Just because a tabloid rumour suggests a player behaves in a certain way doesn't mean they are. I mean if it's true, then it doesnt reflect well on zaha. but the fact of the matter is we dont know whether or not if it's true. you have to question how much substance do these rumours even have?
Nope. It's just a bunch of Chinese whispers due to his not getting a game.
If Zaha wasn't exiled to Siberia, I wouldn't think about it for a second. I've seen him partying in the papers more than I've seen him on the pitch this season.
We're signed a Championship player.
hmm..must be some party. At the end of the day, they're rumours. Like I said before rumours suggest things. I mean facts do as well but we dont have a great understanding of what's going on. If you wanna follow what the papers say about Zaha, so be it. But what they're portraying doesnt always give us a good picture of what's actually going on. It could be as simple as Moyes not rating Zaha. We dont know.
The more I read about this, the more I think United have let this guy down.
He's probably not United standard. He probably is terrible in training, but why Ferguson signed him seemingly as a present for David Moyes is beyond me, and has destroyed his World Cup hopes.
He's probably not United standard. He probably is terrible in training, but why Ferguson signed him seemingly as a present for David Moyes is beyond me, and has destroyed his World Cup hopes.
Let's stick to the things that we do know:
- Zaha was a crucial part in Palace's route to the Premiership, lifting that club above others of greater resource and ability arguably.
- Moyes used him regularly during pre-season and there were promising signs.
- There is no substantive evidence to support claims that his lifestyle off the pitch is detrimental or noticeably different from other players.
- Moyes has avoided fielding him despite the team crying out for just such a player.
- Moyes has really blooded just one youngster in his time at United [Januzaj], was youth development not supposed to be a skill of his?
- Zaha was a crucial part in Palace's route to the Premiership, lifting that club above others of greater resource and ability arguably.
- Moyes used him regularly during pre-season and there were promising signs.
- There is no substantive evidence to support claims that his lifestyle off the pitch is detrimental or noticeably different from other players.
- Moyes has avoided fielding him despite the team crying out for just such a player.
- Moyes has really blooded just one youngster in his time at United [Januzaj], was youth development not supposed to be a skill of his?
I don't believe he's so bad he can't get a game here and there. Simply because we've seen him and we know he's no Bebe or anything like that.
There's obviously something else, though it doesn't have to be sinister.
There's obviously something else, though it doesn't have to be sinister.
As Sultan pointed out earlier in this thread, has it not been club policy to use the cup competitions for the acclimatisation of youth players? I'm not saying that we rule out Moyes' longer term oversight of the academy, however the shorter term aspects have been mostly absent thus far.
To a lesser extent towards the end of Fergie's time if memory serves, the number of times we'd had promising younger players on the bench in league cup matches whilst not going on to use them (happened with Eikrem a lot) definitely increased in the last few years. Doesn't help that we seem to continually get premiership opposition in cup matches either.
I think people look to far into it.
Moyes is his manager and training him every day. He's just not seen anything to suggest he is ready yet. If Moyes had a winger he thought could help us he'd put him in ahead of Young or Valencia.... why wouldn't he? He likes losing and being under pressure?
Like I've said before, I really wasn't in the slightest bit impressed with him in his Premier League showings, he looked off the pace, his passing wasn't up to scratch and while he tracked back he didn't look to very good in getting goalside or tackling a player.
He just didn't look like someone you could depend on to perform at the level required.
I fecking hate seeing Valencia and Young on the pitch for us these days and you'd think "oh it can't be any worse", but it really could. Just wait until he is up to speed and ready to play for us. He's on a long contract unlike Pogba.
Zaha wasn't able to do anything in the Charity Shield match against Wigan, that was really the last time he got a chance to play against EPL (or relegated EPL) level defenders. They just stepped back, waited for Zaha to pick a direction and then cut him off.
If the season was going a bit better he might have gotten more minutes. Winning the LC or FA Cup became a lot more important as we've struggled.
This!
The only time I've heard about Zaha partying, is on here! Smalling has boozed more then this poor fecker from what I've read.
The last line, about Youth development, I've heard Moyes wants to completely revamp the youth system at the club
Moyes is waiting for a comfortable situation to start bedding him in the prem. When we're up 2 or 3 goals at home with 20 minutes left - exactly how Fergie tended to blood youngsters.
Unfortunately we're sh*t, and can't provide that opportunity.
He's a flair player, a luxury on the right. With our non-existent midfield and brain-lapsing defense, I can understand why Moyes would be worried about removing the responsbility of a Valencia and replacing it with Wilf.
We should 100% let him go on loan though.
Unfortunately we're sh*t, and can't provide that opportunity.
He's a flair player, a luxury on the right. With our non-existent midfield and brain-lapsing defense, I can understand why Moyes would be worried about removing the responsbility of a Valencia and replacing it with Wilf.
We should 100% let him go on loan though.
What have you heard exactly?
A whole 28 minutes spread over two games in a six month period, are you seriously suggesting that you sideline a player for not coming up to the mark during such a sample of time?
I'm really not going to criticise a young winger over his defensive development when i consider what his counterparts are offering going forward.
If he feels that the problem is personal so far as Moyes is concerned, and then we go on to prevent a loan this month, you can understand why the player might become disillusioned, no?
Was in an issue of UWS earlier in the season...Was just a line in a paragraph about Moyes
It was literally "And there is also suggestions he has plans to completely overhaul the youth system at the club"
And also, there was a meeting recently about him challenging the scouts to find more young players like Januzaj.
The Zaha and Fabio situations really intrigue me. Both have the potential to be good squad players at least for United but both seemingly have been poorly managed (from our perspective as the average fan). I really fail to understand why he hasn't been allowed to play his trade at a lower level side in the PL...it worked for Welbeck fabulously. It was obvious how integral he was to Palace last season and needing him for cover just sounds like an excuse.
I understand that Moyes maybe wants him kept at United so they can keep an eye on his development more closely but i then compare his situation to someone like Deulofeu in terms of development. They could have kept him at Barcelona B but decide to give him to us and trust us to develop him. What happens when he is injured? He's back at Barcelona and is training with them until he's fit so they are able to manage and keep an eye on him in those terms.
I understand that Moyes maybe wants him kept at United so they can keep an eye on his development more closely but i then compare his situation to someone like Deulofeu in terms of development. They could have kept him at Barcelona B but decide to give him to us and trust us to develop him. What happens when he is injured? He's back at Barcelona and is training with them until he's fit so they are able to manage and keep an eye on him in those terms.
He's already said he'll sanction the loan if we don't have any more injury problems with the first team wingers. Whether Young and Valencia merit being unchallenged by him is another issue, but in terms of being open to sending him on loan, it doesn't seem an issue of itself.
That just seems like an excuse to me. Januzaj, Welbeck, Valencia, Young, Kagawa can all play out wide if need be so you have 5 available choices right now. Granted it's not best for Welbeck if he is played out wide but it is still an option. Can't you place a recall option in a loan anyway...?
Do people actually believe that Zaha would perform any worse considering some of the dogshit served up by Kagawa, Young and Valencia on the flanks? Can anyone point to me to the benefits of having Kagawa on the left?
You should look at the comparison of the trust shown in Oxlade-Chamberlain compared to Zaha. If anything Zaha was older and was playing at a higher level when he was signed.
You should look at the comparison of the trust shown in Oxlade-Chamberlain compared to Zaha. If anything Zaha was older and was playing at a higher level when he was signed.
A luxury indeed were the team to have a winger on the right with the means to beat the defender and threaten the opposing goal.
It is understandable why some people might be sceptical of that explanation, for during the time in which Young and Valencia were absent Zaha saw no minutes on the pitch and only two appearances on the bench IIRC. It loses a bit of substance if the player has existed as an option only in theory rather than practice.
Just loan him out ffs.
Starting for the ressies in 5 minutes. Good chance to see attitude etc 
Starting for the ressies in 5 minutes. Good chance to see attitude etc
He's listed as a sub. So good chance to see him texting his mates and generally looking pissed off.
Ha, sorry, figured he was starting when I saw the squad. Good lord.
Rested for Wednesday?
Rested for Wednesday?
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